I think allowing mounts in the Lab was a mistake

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Zoria.1392 said:You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

I wouldn't call it manipulation to purchase the expansion, I'd call it allowing people to use the features they paid for when buying the expansion. You know there would be just as much QQ if you couldn't use the mounts.

[Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209]

Sign up for the Lab Race (like in Amnoon) mounts are available during the race period only (and if you stray too far off the course, you force dismount). Otherwise...(in my best Edna Mode voice) "No Mounts!" But that's just one guys opinion. :)

[Fluffball.8307]

I prefer the free market approach; it's (WAY) less profitable to skip mobs on mounts, so allow people to do what they want.

[Ashantara.8731]

Well, people could always create a "No mounts" squad in LFG. Why should the rest of us have to do without them?

[Menadena.7482]

Actually, I plan on putting "no mounts" in my lfg listings if they become a problem. I do not understand the appeal of them in the lab myself (no tagging while mounted and once dismounted you are usually agroed so much it is hard to remount) so only see them creating problems as the squad becomes strung out over the map.

The upside is such a listing would attract people who want a no-mounts squad on an organized map. The downside is it would also attract trolls who would mount and follow along just because the squad is not using mounts.

[Neural.1824]

@Endless Soul.5178 said:

@Mea.5491 said:There are quite a few no mount squads in LFG, though (on EU). :) I love those.

How are they enforcing that?

I doubt they have to. The EU servers don't have the socially destructive behaviors that are seen on the NA servers so often.

EU LFG: "no mounts Lab run"EU Players: "ok, I'll find another one"

NA LFG: "no mounts Lab run"(some)NA Players: "I'm going to ride my mount, open doors early, and do everything I can to ruin your fun."

[Menadena.7482]

@Neural.1824 said:

@Endless Soul.5178 said:

@Mea.5491 said:There are quite a few no mount squads in LFG, though (on EU). :) I love those.

How are they enforcing that?

I doubt they have to. The EU servers don't have the socially destructive behaviors that are seen on the NA servers so often.

EU LFG: "no mounts Lab run"EU Players: "ok, I'll find another one"

NA LFG: "no mounts Lab run"(some)NA Players: "I'm going to ride my mount, open doors early, and do everything I can to ruin your fun."

If it were not for the huge pings sometimes I am tempted to just roll a f2p account for those more civilized servers.

[Celldrax.2849]

Eh, all the commanders I've seen so far have kept on foot.

I jump in and out of the zerg on my mounts every now and then to do some doors or bosses, but that's my choice as an individual player (who isn't part of the squad) and one I should continue to be allowed.

It's also possible some commanders may even specify mounts as necessary when putting a group together. And I do realise that automatically excludes some players, but that's just how things go in these types of games sometimes. Not much anyone can really do about it.

[Verenhimo.3296]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@Zoria.1392 said:You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

Your friend with the Lexus isn't manipulating you into buying a Lexus.

My friend with a lexus isn't driving past me whilst I have to walk a mile to the shops to get groceries, it's mental manipulation playing to haves and have nots mentality and this is an incredibly bad analogy.

And I see why they did it, I haven't had many issues with people using mounts outside of the people who literally speed off to open doors on there own to start blowing up the mobs whilst people are trying to not use them to be somewhat fair and kind to the new and f2p players who might be experiencing the lab for the first time.

So colour me indifferent, I just wish they'd atleast disable the mount action skills so people can't halfshot the trash out of petty spite.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

Easy fix is to put NPC Raptors in the middle area for people without mounts to use temporarily. Infact that may be more enticing if more people get a feel for mounts and decide they really want them. Doubt most people played the demos after all. It's better reinforcement than making people feel like garbage that they don't have it.

[Menadena.7482]

I did a couple lab runs today, both zergiing and leading (I must be getting too much like an adult, the lab opens Tuesday and I did not command in it until today). Anyway, people were not using mounts much but I REALLY wish anet had put the race somewhere else. When I am in the lab I am there for loot, not "ok, we are all going to stop now and do the race" .... I could not figure out the point of it other than an event where I did not get tot bags,

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@Fluffball.8307 said:PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

Found the Borderlands Scout.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@hellsqueen.3045 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

You are the kind of person who ruins the events.PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

Most of the time I am quiet and act as a beacon but if you will not follow the few rules that DO exist either in lfg or when told to you, especially repeatedly, or, as you yourself say, when something is ridiculously wrong, then you can kitten off and go to another shard. Commanding a squad is herding cats as it is without some iknowbetter causing headaches for everyone else.

Your'e not understanding my point. People are saying that mounts are fine because the commander can command and tell people what to do. Except NO THEY CAN'T, and if a commander starts issuing orders, the zerg is going to immediately fall apart in a hostile map chat. No one in their right mind is going to listen to a PvE commander bossing people around in a dang farming event.

I have absolutely

zero

respect for PvE commanders outside of teaching newbies TT, but that's not the debate here.

Not true. I ran 3 2 hr runs just niw and everybody was tip top.

I say wait. They wait.If they should ever be unruly, i tag down and bail on map. 40% will disperse automatically.

I dont do story time. Unless its on 2 min break.

[Irreverent.3594]

Sorry but wp'ing up and using griffon to get back to squad is amazing.

Anyway there is solution already:

Find "No mounts" "Mounts only to catch up" squad in LFG.

[evilsofa.7296]

I finally saw mention today that the race achievement can only be obtained by completing the race in under two minutes with a mount. Those completing the race in under two minutes without a mount (by using Daredevil) do not get the achievement.

/salute to those who helped pedestrians run the race/sad that their efforts were wasted due to lack of communication from the game

[Spook.5847]

I agree that mounts in the Lab was a terrible idea. It was already bad enough with the kids and their legendaries one-shotting all the mobs, but it is sheer hell now. Very poorly thought out. Oh - and it DOES NOT make me want a mount; it makes me not want to bother logging in.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

I'd like to suggest a very different solution.

In PoF, before you have mounts, you have to do activities on a BORROWED mount. Why not have borrowable mounts in the lab for everybody? Not only would it even the playing field, it would give free players a sample of what they are missing. If seeing someone on a mount makes people want one, imagine being able to try one out...but only in that little limited space.

[Rennie.6750]

The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@Spook.5847 said:I agree that mounts in the Lab was a terrible idea. It was already bad enough with the kids and their legendaries one-shotting all the mobs, but it is sheer hell now. Very poorly thought out. Oh - and it DOES NOT make me want a mount; it makes me not want to bother logging in.

Legendaries are the exact same basic stats as Ascended, you can just change the stats to a different prefix on the fly.They aren't the strongest in the game, they just allow versatility without having to restat ascended in the mystic forge every time.Which means second in strength is exotic which can be bought on the market and so you are literally complaining falsely about gear.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@Rennie.6750 said:The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

However, I have had zero of these problems with my friend commanding because he doesn't mount, targets pumpkins and nodes and makes people wait to open doors.His ads say that mounts are discouraged and people usually only end up using them if they fall behind because on the second round when a few people joined late, they missed the pumpkins and use them to catch up. Because he makes the squad wait to open doors, people can catch up and make it to doors too. Most people get to tag things as well.In the past, if you were a straggler you would miss tagging stuff too because there were that many people. If you can't keep up with the mass of the group than you may want to think of adding a speed boost to your build for the labyrinth. Honestly, as long as a commander discourages a lot of mount use, then the squad will somewhat reflect this behavior and minimize their mount usage. If people get ahead on mounts, that is their fault and they are missing loot. Engage skills are not that powerful, but they could do with some adjustments across all levels of play to lower their damage to promote the most damage being done by the player. They are engagement skills for a smooth transition into combat so you are already auto-attacking your target. Weakening all the engage skills damage wouldn't hurt.

[Rennie.6750]

@hellsqueen.3045 said:

@Rennie.6750 said:The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

However, I have had zero of these problems with my friend commanding because he doesn't mount, targets pumpkins and nodes and makes people wait to open doors.His ads say that mounts are discouraged and people usually only end up using them if they fall behind because on the second round when a few people joined late, they missed the pumpkins and use them to catch up. Because he makes the squad wait to open doors, people can catch up and make it to doors too. Most people get to tag things as well.In the past, if you were a straggler you would miss tagging stuff too because there were that many people. If you can't keep up with the mass of the group than you may want to think of adding a speed boost to your build for the labyrinth. Honestly, as long as a commander discourages a lot of mount use, then the squad will somewhat reflect this behavior and minimize their mount usage. If people get ahead on mounts, that is their fault and they are missing loot. Engage skills are not that powerful, but they could do with some adjustments across all levels of play to lower their damage to promote the most damage being done by the player. They are engagement skills for a smooth transition into combat so you are already auto-attacking your target. Weakening all the engage skills damage wouldn't hurt.

I would say that having mounts doing 4.5k damage to ~15k health NPCs is kind of a big deal when you have 30 people willing to tag them. But the fact that they can also get way ahead of the group make people who would behave nicely otherwise frustrated and selfish too. Overall, this only takes one individual with a disruptive behaviour to ruin the fun for everyone else, as it will piss off another guy who will give in to the perceived easy extra loot, which isn't great in open world PvE, because there isn't much you can do about this except disbanding. Then everyone is kind of pissed off.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@Rennie.6750 said:

@hellsqueen.3045 said:

@Rennie.6750 said:The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

However, I have had zero of these problems with my friend commanding because he doesn't mount, targets pumpkins and nodes and makes people wait to open doors.His ads say that mounts are discouraged and people usually only end up using them if they fall behind because on the second round when a few people joined late, they missed the pumpkins and use them to catch up. Because he makes the squad wait to open doors, people can catch up and make it to doors too. Most people get to tag things as well.In the past, if you were a straggler you would miss tagging stuff too because there were that many people. If you can't keep up with the mass of the group than you may want to think of adding a speed boost to your build for the labyrinth. Honestly, as long as a commander discourages a lot of mount use, then the squad will somewhat reflect this behavior and minimize their mount usage. If people get ahead on mounts, that is their fault and they are missing loot. Engage skills are not that powerful, but they could do with some adjustments across all levels of play to lower their damage to promote the most damage being done by the player. They are engagement skills for a smooth transition into combat so you are already auto-attacking your target. Weakening all the engage skills damage wouldn't hurt.

I would say that having mounts doing 4.5k damage to ~15k health NPCs is kind of a big deal when you have 30 people willing to tag them. But the fact that they can also get way ahead of the group make people who would behave nicely otherwise frustrated and selfish too. Overall, this only takes one individual with a disruptive behaviour to ruin the fun for everyone else, as it will kitten off another guy who will give in to the perceived easy extra loot, which isn't great in open world PvE, because there isn't much you can do about this except disbanding. Then everyone is kind of pissed off.

Basically we had one bad person yesterday who opened doors even though the commander has stated to not do that, he was warned about it and he got salty so we kicked him and he went and opened all the doors and ran away then left the instance. Which in the end didn't effect us much because he didn't kill anything. They can't do it on their own for the most part, hence why they need a commander. If you kick them, they aren't welcome there and they will get tired and leave.

[Toast.6459]

@sacredninja.5236 said:This is absolute kitten, F2P is a trial, ppl who buy xpacs get new things, things to give them an advantage, like glider and mounts, access to new armor stats… and so on.Just because some ppl decide not to buy said xpacs, should the rest of the community suffer? Should the game be held back by the ones not financially contributing to the maintenance and further development of this game?I think the only thing anet should change is setting a time limit to the free account, say max 30 days, buy the game after that or no more game time.Or get rid of F2P all together!And I also feel that during this free trial there should be greater limitations.Sorry, but this is just how I feel. F2P should never have been a thing in GW2 anyway.

I logged in just to comment on this. Do you realize how ignorant you sound?

You may not be aware, but this game started as B2P, and there are players still out there that bought the original game and have yet to buy the expansions for whatever reason, and you're saying those players are "lesser" than you who bought the expansions? Find the door (haha event puns) and get outta here, because that's the most laughable thing I've heard. That said, if the majority of the community shares your attitude now, I can say with 100% certainty that I'm glad I quit.

[Ashen.2907]

@Rennie.6750 said:

@hellsqueen.3045 said:

@Rennie.6750 said:The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

However, I have had zero of these problems with my friend commanding because he doesn't mount, targets pumpkins and nodes and makes people wait to open doors.His ads say that mounts are discouraged and people usually only end up using them if they fall behind because on the second round when a few people joined late, they missed the pumpkins and use them to catch up. Because he makes the squad wait to open doors, people can catch up and make it to doors too. Most people get to tag things as well.In the past, if you were a straggler you would miss tagging stuff too because there were that many people. If you can't keep up with the mass of the group than you may want to think of adding a speed boost to your build for the labyrinth. Honestly, as long as a commander discourages a lot of mount use, then the squad will somewhat reflect this behavior and minimize their mount usage. If people get ahead on mounts, that is their fault and they are missing loot. Engage skills are not that powerful, but they could do with some adjustments across all levels of play to lower their damage to promote the most damage being done by the player. They are engagement skills for a smooth transition into combat so you are already auto-attacking your target. Weakening all the engage skills damage wouldn't hurt.

I would say that having mounts doing 4.5k damage to ~15k health NPCs is kind of a big deal when you have 30 people willing to tag them. But the fact that they can also get way ahead of the group make people who would behave nicely otherwise frustrated and selfish too. Overall, this only takes one individual with a disruptive behaviour to ruin the fun for everyone else, as it will kitten off another guy who will give in to the perceived easy extra loot, which isn't great in open world PvE, because there isn't much you can do about this except disbanding. Then everyone is kind of pissed off.

As opposed to an unmounted character, lets say a Daredevil, who can run ahead and do 15k or 20k damage in a very few seconds to those same mobs?

4.5k burst damage is easily matched (or exceeded) on most classes. Speed buffs are also pretty easy to come by. There have been people running ahead of the zerg to solo mobs and doors since the first halloween, long before mounts were a thing.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Well.. without mounts it's hard for a melee combatant to keep up with the big zerk.. zo.. I'm happy with mounts.Plus the raptor can pull in groups together