I think allowing mounts in the Lab was a mistake

[Ohoni.6057]

I think the mounts are great, but I do think some Commanders should run "mountless" zergs and advertise them as such on LFG. All it takes is the commander only moving at normal speeds and the whole thing slows down. You can still use mounts to catch up later.

[Myhr.9108]

It's not up to Anet to fix it, it's a community problem and only community members can solve it. Aka, choose your commanders well, compliment the nice ones, and talk to the bad ones (maybe they don't realize the problem), and it they ignore you, ignore them in return and leave. It's also everyone's responsibility to search for a squad that fits them. And you know, you can always buy that commander tag and lead by example.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

I think there is simply not enought room in LAB to ride mounts freely. I think people are using them now because it's new, once people get bored of it, they gona run normal LAB squads.

[Thelgar.7214]

The race was OK, once. But it really messes with the zerg when people switch to mounts and even those that have them can't switch at the same time because a random mob hit them and people are strung out across the map.

[EdgarMTanaka.7291]

I started a guild raid squad where I as command never mounted up and I always waited for those who was after. I am against rushing and doing everything as fast as possible. It is ignorant and stupid, you are supposed to have fun. In my opinion.

My point is, have your guild doing a lab run.

[Cronospere.8143]

Even with mounts or not its all about the commander who is doing the lab. Find the right one that doesnt rush it all.When i command the map, i always do the mobs inbetween the doors also. Because they deliver tons of more rewards, then just pass by them

[sokeenoppa.5384]

Feedback heard. Ill pop My tag up and do it on foot. Well race with mounts but other content on foot.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

Double post

[Shaaba.5672]

@Myhr.9108 said:It's not up to Anet to fix it, it's a community problem and only community members can solve it. Aka, choose your commanders well, compliment the nice ones, and talk to the bad ones (maybe they don't realize the problem), and it they ignore you, ignore them in return and leave. It's also everyone's responsibility to search for a squad that fits them. And you know, you can always buy that commander tag and lead by example.

I understand the point you are making, but let me give you a few counterpoints.

1. Finding a squad that isn't on a full map is already a chore. Adding a new criteria to look for is compounding that. Point taken about commanding my own.
2. While it is the community who are displaying these behaviors, it's Anet who is enabling them. It brings to mind the mordrem event before HoT. People complained about that a lot - people tagging events and running off and then AFKing once they reached their max stack. It's hard to hate the people doing this when the game was designed to reward that behavior. This, I feel, is the same type of thing. So yes, community feedback is good, but Anet needs to be careful about the tools they put into their game in the first place.

[Aye.8392]

I think allowing mounts everywhere they don't completely break the game is the thing to do. Riders bought the expansion and earned the mounts -- it isn't a matter of manipulation or hurting feelings it's a matter of allowing players to have what they've earned. I would like to have the mounts tuned down a bit more in low level areas so that they do not overwhelm the mobs on the map, but that is just a balance issue. Otherwise, the fewer restrictions the better.

[thrdeye.1028]

@Pax.3548 said:

@PookieDaWombat.6209 said:Yeah, the problem is they are using them to move through the maze and clear doors before non mounted players can get to them and while they are pulling aggro that the mounted players just run past. It was a bad call on Anets part to allow them in there. People shouldn't HAVE to use lfg just to find a map that is non-mount friendly for a holiday event. I agree with OP 100% here.

As long as the commanders doesn't use them, it will make the squad members move at their pace, now if a few guys get ahead of themselves with the doors, it is the commanders's role to put them back in line or politely ask them to stop, if they aren't part of the squad (and if they don't agree, well, you can cease being polite). As far as I've seen today, there wasn't any real trouble, it all depends on the kind of commander who make runs at the lab.

"Cease being polite?" So if I happen to end up in the same map as you some group I'm not even a part of tries to impose their rules on me and then they're nasty if I choose to use the mount I paid for and then earned in game? I like my mount, it's not just a speed increase but a way to control aggro by stowing my minions. Don't get me wrong I want you to enjoy the game too and I'd probably just find a group in LFG but I don't appreciate the idea that I don't have a choice in the matter.

[Myhr.9108]

@Shaaba.5672 said:I understand the point you are making, but let me give you a few counterpoints.

1. Finding a squad that isn't on a full map is already a chore. Adding a new criteria to look for is compounding that. Point taken about commanding my own.
2. While it is the community who are displaying these behaviors, it's Anet who is enabling them. It brings to mind the mordrem event before HoT. People complained about that a lot - people tagging events and running off and then AFKing once they reached their max stack. It's hard to hate the people doing this when the game was designed to reward that behavior. This, I feel, is the same type of thing. So yes, community feedback is good, but Anet needs to be careful about the tools they put into their game in the first place.

I'd like to make a counter-counterpoint. First, I'll point out that I'm pretty sure that if Anet didn't allow mounts in the Lab, there would also be complaints about it on these forums (and if I'm facetious, I'd add that it's not impossible at all that some of the people complaining about mounts in the Lab would also complain about no mounts in the Lab, but I digress). Second, I would like you to consider the fact that if mounts were not allowed, there would be no solution to allow them, because the issue would be technical, as opposed as a community problem.

I do agree that it is the devs responsibility to give us, the players, the tools to solve such problems, and to foresee potential unwelcome behaviors. But in this case, it makes sense to allow mounts, and let the players choose if they use it or not, rather than not having the choice in the first place. More choice is always better. As for tools, we have commander and mentor tags, squads, and LFG, which are sufficient, imo. You could argue that the optimal solution would be for the devs to create both mount-allowed and mount-less instances of the Lab, making it even more simple for the player to choose, but at that point, I think it would be asking for too much, even without considering a whole lot of problems that could appear (dividing the community for example)

I get that it means what you prefer is not the baseline, and as such will require more effort on your side. But the alternative is completely alienating people that prefer mounts in the Lab.

[sacredninja.5236]

This is absolute bullshit, F2P is a trial, ppl who buy xpacs get new things, things to give them an advantage, like glider and mounts, access to new armor stats… and so on.Just because some ppl decide not to buy said xpacs, should the rest of the community suffer? Should the game be held back by the ones not financially contributing to the maintenance and further development of this game?I think the only thing anet should change is setting a time limit to the free account, say max 30 days, buy the game after that or no more game time.Or get rid of F2P all together!And I also feel that during this free trial there should be greater limitations.Sorry, but this is just how I feel. F2P should never have been a thing in GW2 anyway.

[ownedbycats.3580]

I must have been in some very good groups because the commanders were running around the map unmounted while we tagged everything, I found it impossible to use the mounts most of the time because of being in combat so much. The only time I saw people using mounts was either for the race or to catch up to the zerg after dying, just coming in or getting behind somehow. I guess if you have a commander who's jumping on a mount going door to door, ignoring everything else in between - I could see that causing a problem as that would encourage everyone else with a mount to do the same, then the ones without mounts are lagging behind. I personally did not experience that (although I could yet! This event is still young!). I don't think the mounts should be banned (it made getting to the zerg so much easier) but people who are commanding should be mindful that some in their zerg do not have mounts, so we should be running and tagging most of the time. I do however think they should have a mount people can use just for the race, especially if a piece of armor is gated behind it with no other way to acquire it (if that is indeed the case, I do not know for sure). Maybe they will have so much fun with the mount during the race they will want to buy POF ;)

[Menadena.7482]

@Razor.9872 said:Commanders can run their zergs as they wish. Just find a good commander who only runs with aoe swiftness.

The problem is people who go rogue in the lab, whether they are in the squad or not. They are the main reason why commanding a squad this time of year is an instant headache.

[Kassablanca.5821]

why ppl feel sorry for the one dont buy expac to help support the game?

[Pax.3548]

@thrdeye.1028 said:

@Pax.3548 said:

@PookieDaWombat.6209 said:Yeah, the problem is they are using them to move through the maze and clear doors before non mounted players can get to them and while they are pulling aggro that the mounted players just run past. It was a bad call on Anets part to allow them in there. People shouldn't HAVE to use lfg just to find a map that is non-mount friendly for a holiday event. I agree with OP 100% here.

As long as the commanders doesn't use them, it will make the squad members move at their pace, now if a few guys get ahead of themselves with the doors, it is the commanders's role to put them back in line or politely ask them to stop, if they aren't part of the squad (and if they don't agree, well, you can cease being polite). As far as I've seen today, there wasn't any real trouble, it all depends on the kind of commander who make runs at the lab.

"Cease being polite?" So if I happen to end up in the same map as you some group I'm not even a part of tries to impose their rules on me and then they're nasty if I choose to use the mount I paid for and then earned in game? I like my mount, it's not just a speed increase but a way to control aggro by stowing my minions. Don't get me wrong I want you to enjoy the game too and I'd probably just find a group in LFG but I don't appreciate the idea that I don't have a choice in the matter.

Well, thats how society works, Otherwise I could just choose to play music at maximun volumen without caring about my neighborhood's opinion. You can do anything you like, but the moment when thats affect others, thats when your freedom end. Of course you could do what you want anyway, but don't expect the rest to react nicely, besides you only paid PoF, so if things were to be extremely fair, you should only be able to use mounts in the crystal desert (core tyria is free).

[Khisanth.2948]

This is not a problem of having mounts in the labyrinth. This is a problem of n00b commanders who are doing it wrong. Running pass mobs with a mount and making a beeline to doors is leaving loot behind. Doors take too long to respawn to benefit from zooming around at maximum speed. Heck even just running around on foot is too fast for the door respawn rate. Anyone on a mount is not tagging and therefore not getting the loot.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Zoria.1392 said:You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

Based on ANet's history, there's a really good chance that was not their intention. They've made seemingly-boneheaded decisions in the past because they thought something would be fun, and simply failed to consider some of the unintended consequences. I think that's more likely than they were being as manipulative as say a phone company (although, since I wasn't invited to any of their policy discussions, I have as little proof for my hypothesis as anyone else).

What I would like to see is the ability to turn off mounts in some instances. Perhaps the same steward that offers bank|TP|food access could be given this duty. Or perhaps some maps could spawn in mount-free zones. The incentive would still remain (as there's the race and word-of-mouth that mount-labyrinth can be more rewarding); it just wouldn't feel like manipulation.

[Matt Cole.2680]

In contrast to my post earlier I ran a great lab run with my guild and it went smooth, I think the community has pretty much come up with a solution by now and that solution is just finding the right commander/squad

[Fluffball.8307]

PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

[Aerlen.5326]

50/50 on this.

Pros - Mounts are good for catching up if you've fallen behind or just entered a lab map and I really like the race. Also great for pumpkin tagging.

Cons - When you get a map where everyone is on mounts and they skip all the mobs.. which is like 80% of your loot.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@Fluffball.8307 said:PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

You are the kind of person who ruins the events.PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@Khisanth.2948 said:This is not a problem of having mounts in the labyrinth. This is a problem of n00b commanders who are doing it wrong. Running pass mobs with a mount and making a beeline to doors is leaving loot behind. Doors take too long to respawn to benefit from zooming around at maximum speed. Heck even just running around on foot is too fast for the door respawn rate. Anyone on a mount is not tagging and therefore not getting the loot.

Thus, that is there consequence and people need to find a good commander.

[evilsofa.7296]

I'm a returning player that bought the original game at launch, and while I have bought the expansions, I haven't gotten a mount yet because I'm still figuring things out (have a lot to catch up on). I also haven't done a Halloween event before, so the Lab was new to me.

I attempted to get into the race, and managed to get to where the race starts after dying a few times to the champion Horror that was rampaging all over the Lab by going into the Clock Tower, exiting there into the Lab and then taking the portal down. I have yet to figure out how to get to that other waypoint in the NW corner,; there's something on the wiki about red doors and green doors but I've only ever found green doors. The race started, and everyone just left at warp speed, leaving me running behind through a bunch of trash mobs by myself. Didn't get far. Wow, I didn't know this was supposed to be a group event.

And then, after that, the race seemed to be... broken? After going back to LA to fix my armor, I went back to the race start area, and waited around there for most of an hour wondering when the race would start again, but hardly anyone was in the Lab and the race never started again as far as I could tell. I kept dying to the champion Horror whenever it went through the race start area, so eventually I gave up because this was not fun at all. Mind you, I have no idea how any of this is supposed to work because nobody bothered to explain anything and I could not even find an entry on the wiki for the race. Am I supposed to somehow get into another instance or something? Going back to LA did not seem to do that.

What a waste of my evening.