Help! I'm Actually Enjoying Renegade!

I don't know how or why, but I'm actually starting to enjoy Renegade. I must be going mad.

Perhaps it's because it took me two weeks to farm those cancerous LS3 maps for my Viper's trinkets, so I damn well better appreciate the spec?

Or maybe since I dropped 120g to sort out my runes, sigils and to stat swap a pair of ascended weapons?

I've found Citadel Bombardment to be unsettlingly amusing to drop on groups of mobs, and it has a long range, so that could be it?

The rotation is boring, but when a fight goes south the group healing and protection is nice, plus vomitting stacks of might when I feel like it might be making this whole mess more enjoyable?

Seven shot is cute when it hits, and it's sad damage aside, I feel like a boss landing the skill shot, so my ego is getting a boost and thus increasing my enjoyment of the spec?

Or maybe it's just watching those tiny yet immense numbers literally melting off bosses with almost zero effort that's just tickling me pink?

I dunno, whatever it is, it's actually quite fun!

It is strong in open world PvE as long as you do not use SB. It does major AOE damage with good sustainability and strong single target damage.

The issue is that it is that it did not create anything new. Herald does the exact same thing, renegede just does more condi damage. If you played and enjoyed condi damage 1.00 in HoT, this the improved version, 1.01. It is essentially the same.

@otto.5684 said:It is strong in open world PvE as long as you do not use SB. It does major AOE damage with good sustainability and strong single target damage.

The issue is that it is that it did not create anything new. Herald does the exact same thing, renegede just does more condi damage. If you played and enjoyed condi damage 1.00 in HoT, this the improved version, 1.01. It is essentially the same.

Oh absolutely, that's why I'm a wee bit confused. I've not played condi much before now, so that may be why.

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:

@otto.5684 said:It is strong in open world PvE as long as you do not use SB. It does major AOE damage with good sustainability and strong single target damage.

The issue is that it is that it did not create anything new. Herald does the exact same thing, renegede just does more condi damage. If you played and enjoyed condi damage 1.00 in HoT, this the improved version, 1.01. It is essentially the same.

I played condi rev (not herald) before unlocking renegade, and aside from losing a bit of life steal from devastation (I take invocation while solo) it's basically the same build with 3 extra F-skills, of which I only ever use one. I still don't like kalla as a legend, so i tend to just use jalis/mallyx.

Ive heard that a lot of people enjoy it, usually people who havent played Rev much previously who were attracted to the renegade elite spec. Nothing wrong with that. But its not got as much to it as other elite specs, and its certainly not as polished.

@Mako.4137 said:Ive heard that a lot of people enjoy it, usually people who havent played Rev much previously who were attracted to the renegade elite spec. Nothing wrong with that. But its not got as much to it as other elite specs, and its certainly not as polished.

The only reason I switched to Renegade is that Power Rev doesn't do anywhere near as much damage. My Warrior can run the WvW side of things now, so the Rev is relegated to fractals. Rev as a whole still feels unfinished though.

I play hybrid, so it is my favourite class so far. It needs some love from the devs though. But then I think every elite spec in PoF is going through a beta test of sorts right now.

Core rev is even worse than renagade though lol

Wheres the love, Anet?

Don't feel bad, I love it, am having fun with it, even in raids its great for a change. I reckon it still is going to see some love so I will holdout and stay true and then you watch, you will see tons of Renegades everywhere cuz we will be the next "flavour"!! ;)

@Joxer.6024 said:Don't feel bad, I love it, am having fun with it, even in raids its great for a change. I reckon it still is going to see some love so I will holdout and stay true and then you watch, you will see tons of Renegades everywhere cuz we will be the next "flavour"!! ;)

I think Revenants are one of, if not the most underplayed classes in the game. In that sense, there's probably nowhere to go but up. It would be nice to avoid flavour of the month though as that always leads to a brutal beating with the nerf bat shortly afterward. Last night I ran a fractal and to my surprise, another party member was also a Revenant. We both did a sort of double take and I am pretty sure we got an achievement for it.

@Mako.4137 said:Ive heard that a lot of people enjoy it, usually people who havent played Rev much previously who were attracted to the renegade elite spec. Nothing wrong with that. But its not got as much to it as other elite specs, and its certainly not as polished.

hyper kitty combo A(power/crit): vuln kitty>hyper kitty(elite)>dimension kitty(f3)hyper kitty combo B(that other one... condi :# ): bloody kitty>vuln kitty> dimension kitty[insert any cool thingy of choice beyond this insert]

In PvE the warband stuff works pretty well. In PvP or WvW it's basically useless.

I have a Ventari healing Renegade, and it's loads of fun. Renegade is the more offensive version of support, using the strong healing, life drain and AE interrupts to support parties, and I switch to the tablet if something pumps out a lot of damage. Zealot stats for open world with Staff/Hammer of course because I still kill things super fast that way.

For WvW, I switch in half defensive Nomad to become quite difficult to kill.

@Israel.7056 said:In PvE the warband stuff works pretty well. In PvP or WvW it's basically useless.

It took me an unreasonably long time to learn to play power Rev in WvW, especially when roaming. Switching legends at the wrong time was basically a death sentence, and flinging the hammer would get attention quickly. Eventually I felt like I could hold my own, but then PoF dropped. Frankly, my Warrior has always had a much easier time of it in PvP, and with the Spellbreaker it just got even easier. My Rev is used for PvE and fractals now, so the Renegade works quite well for that.

Condi Renegade is quite strong in PvE, but it's mostly because of how good M/A is, and Kalla synergizes with Mallyx a bit better than any other legend does. But don't let good numbers fool you into thinking the class works fine. It's a hugely unpolished mess- SB is rarely competitive, there's a serious lack of customization leading to shallow gameplay (as with any Rev spec), and the energy mechanic is designed in such a way that it's mostly just a pointless burden.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that many of the above problems are just due to MH Sword being under-tuned. But the lack of skill variety and build customization drives me insane with Revenants. The class just needed more development time than it got.

@Mako.4137 said:Core rev is even worse than renagade though lol

Wheres the love, Anet?

To be fair the entire purpose of renegade is to do 20% more condition damage because of Kalla's fervor. It serves no other purpose other than to be a dps increase over core condi rev.

@Einlanzer.1627 said:Condi Renegade is quite strong in PvE, but it's mostly because of how good M/A is, and Kalla synergizes with Mallyx a bit better than any other legend does. But don't let good numbers fool you into thinking the class works fine. It's a hugely unpolished mess- SB is rarely competitive, there's a serious lack of customization leading to shallow gameplay (as with any Rev spec), and the energy mechanic is designed in such a way that it's mostly just a pointless burden.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that many of the above problems are just due to MH Sword being under-tuned. But the lack of skill variety and build customization drives me insane with Revenants. The class just needed more development time than it got.

One big thing Renegade has going for it in actual, non-golem, gaming situations is that it can "make up" dps after you have to do mechanics... Like, if you have to go drop a poison or run to a well or emergency rez somebody, you'll have built up more energy than you normally would have AND you actually have skills like Unyielding Anguish and Icerazor that you can quickly dump that energy into to make back up some of that lost dps.

Other dps classes can't really do this... They can reprioritize higher damage skills that are coming off cooldown, but they don't have extra things to add in to actually make up some of the difference.

I'm actually kind of in the same boat as the OP.

I recently remade my pRanger into a Condi Druid/SLB, because I know it's meta. I know it will get into (PuG) groups faster. But everytime I log into my Condi Ranger, I find myself incredibly bored.

So I switch all my viper trinkets over to my Rev/Renegade, and suddenly I'm actually having FUN.

I KNOW my Condi SLB is Meta.I KNOW my Heal Druid is Meta.I KNOW my Heal Druid will rarely get turned down for Fractals or Raids.

But, bloody hell, if my Renegade isn't FUN and it genuinely feels IMPACTFUL. Group lifesteal? Done. Group Condi DPS gain? Done. Group Resistance? Done. Strong melee condi DPS that has a lotta "OOMF"? DONE.

I KNOW my Ranger does more DPS and is potentially more useful to a group, but damned if I don't feel like a BAMF on my Renegade!

I still prefer power Herald myself, but Renegade is also fun. You just have to ignore the legend, ignore the weapon, and take all the damage boosting traits. It plays just like regular condi rev, except less cleanse/fury but a lot more damage.

@Mord.6501 said:I'm actually kind of in the same boat as the OP.

I recently remade my pRanger into a Condi Druid/SLB, because I know it's meta. I know it will get into (PuG) groups faster. But everytime I log into my Condi Ranger, I find myself incredibly bored.

So I switch all my viper trinkets over to my Rev/Renegade, and suddenly I'm actually having FUN.

I KNOW my Condi SLB is Meta.I KNOW my Heal Druid is Meta.I KNOW my Heal Druid will rarely get turned down for Fractals or Raids.

But, bloody hell, if my Renegade isn't FUN and it genuinely feels IMPACTFUL. Group lifesteal? Done. Group Condi DPS gain? Done. Group Resistance? Done. Strong melee condi DPS that has a lotta "OOMF"? DONE.

I KNOW my Ranger does more DPS and is potentially more useful to a group, but damned if I don't feel like a BAMF on my Renegade!

Condi renegade is meta on every fight that condi soulbeast is meta on plus some, and has a very slightly higher benchmark than any ranger spec. You can feel like a bamf on renegade and do more dps than your ranger ;)

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Mord.6501 said:I'm actually kind of in the same boat as the OP.

I recently remade my pRanger into a Condi Druid/SLB, because I know it's meta. I know it will get into (PuG) groups faster. But everytime I log into my Condi Ranger, I find myself incredibly bored.

So I switch all my viper trinkets over to my Rev/Renegade, and suddenly I'm actually having FUN.

I KNOW my Condi SLB is Meta.I KNOW my Heal Druid is Meta.I KNOW my Heal Druid will rarely get turned down for Fractals or Raids.

But, bloody hell, if my Renegade isn't FUN and it genuinely feels IMPACTFUL. Group lifesteal? Done. Group Condi DPS gain? Done. Group Resistance? Done. Strong melee condi DPS that has a lotta "OOMF"? DONE.

I KNOW my Ranger does more DPS and is potentially more useful to a group, but damned if I don't feel like a BAMF on my Renegade!

Those benchmarks don't even account for your sub getting AP either.

I only use shortbow against bosses with a condition build.

For power I still prefer swords, staff and hammer. When you throw a hammer autoattack at a wave of incoming enemies in a low level open world map and you see 5K critical hits popping up, it's just beautiful.

I found that both power and condition renegade work specially well in dungeons, even more than other professions. No defiance bar stays up, you don't need to skip enemies because you sweep them faster than it takes to wait for that one guy that never skips properly and gets killed, and you can even defend NPCs easily.

I was going to mention the ventari Renegade but I see Carighan did already. :) Imo, that is the most unique new thing that Renegade can offer; Herald is good in itself but Kalla is better than Glint is as a legend to channel, accompanying Ventari. Now you can actually swap without sacrificing (nearly) all group healing for 10 sec. You do lose some boons but you can trait to get many back, such as protection, and in general you provide a lot of stuff with Kalla.

Meanwhile, power Herald is still quite fun and provides that general slew of boons all over the groups, so I don't think Rev is hurting as such, however I completely agree that it's a strange hodgepodge of designs in places.

So yes, I think there's fun to be had, but it is a bit more niche or per game mode for sure. I'm anxious to see what they are changing with the classes.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:To be fair the entire purpose of renegade is to do 20% more condition damage because of Kalla's fervor. It serves no other purpose other than to be a dps increase over core condi rev.

See, if design ideas translated well into design implementation in GW2 (I don't think it truly does for any class, though to be fair 5y ago at release it was impressive, but then nothing was really done other than one talent rework), then that'd be something quite different. The design would have powerful AE enhancing effects which in turn are attackable and easily killed, and hence must be timed well to survive long enough to do their effect.

After all, that is what the spec does, between its F2, F4 and utility/healing/elite skills. Only problem, while that is clearly the design intent behind the majoriy of skills and a fair few traits, nothing about this ever translated into ingame balance, where the numbers are so off that the spec comes down to giving us a ranged condi weapon and laughing at us with Alacrity worse than a single chrono phantasm.

@narcx.3570 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:Condi Renegade is quite strong in PvE, but it's mostly because of how good M/A is, and Kalla synergizes with Mallyx a bit better than any other legend does. But don't let good numbers fool you into thinking the class works fine. It's a hugely unpolished mess- SB is rarely competitive, there's a serious lack of customization leading to shallow gameplay (as with any Rev spec), and the energy mechanic is designed in such a way that it's mostly just a pointless burden.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that many of the above problems are just due to MH Sword being under-tuned. But the lack of skill variety and build customization

drives me insane

with Revenants. The class just needed more development time than it got.

This is a fairly valid observation. It's kinda the opposite of the elementalist situation: elementalists get high DPS under ideal conditions because they need ideal conditions to maximise their DPS, so their practical DPS in many situations is roughly on par with everyone else. Conversely, revenant mechanics do allow a certain degree of 'making up for lost time' that other professions often don't have. (Thieves do to some extent, but since the thief melee autoattack buff, not autoattacking is a more significant DPS loss than it used to be).