What role schold new engi elite spec have ? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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What role schold new engi elite spec have ?

Noah Salazar.5430Noah Salazar.5430 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 21, 2021 in Engineer

We actualy have:
Holo-> Dps
Scrapper->Bruiser(tanky dps)/healer

What role schold new engi elite spec have ? 51 votes

Condi dps (skills will be more condi oriented)
13%
Dark Red Killian.3946Falan.1839Bish.8627xev.9476Bailios.7518ZeroSkitzo.5403Konrad Curze.5130 7 votes
Healer (elite full focusing on healing same as weapon)
5%
Tiilimon.6094marcel.6734Valtarius.8671 3 votes
Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)
27%
Samug.6512Zaraki.5784Shaogin.2679draxynnic.3719Jtoon.6907Lotus Bane.9387rrusse.7058monkeyface.5627Visceroff.7038Lan Deathrider.5910Kodama.6453Noah Salazar.5430ThrakathNar.4537Frenchie.1873 14 votes
Support that buff barier to team(maybe give it to scrapper)
1%
Joe Schmoe.6981 1 vote
Some kind of temorary buffs like +150power/precision(or others) for team (ak bannerslave)
5%
Infusion.7149Fueki.4753souldancer.3408 3 votes
Other
9%
Jski.6180Malhavoc Adhamar.3675lare.5129Yasai.3549SexyMofo.8923 5 votes
I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(
35%
TheSlothArmada.6709BunjiKugashira.9754cgMatt.5162Rezzet.3614Blood Red Arachnid.2493Teratus.2859Lonewolf Kai.3682Skada.1362ethanzephyr.7298vardeleanu.8972Astyrah.4015Oxstar.7643Naxos.2503Dave.6819Berryblossom.8921DemonSage.6317Raven.8531Wibring.7458 18 votes
<1

Comments

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Some kind of temorary buffs like +150power/precision(or others) for team (ak bannerslave)

    I'd like to see a non-healing, non-barrier support spec.
    Just let it vomit offensive boons.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    Boon support is something that we could use well and could finally enable us to become viable healers in end game PvE content like raids and strike missions.
    Our healing is quite good, but we don't provide any of the meaningful boons to the party (25 might stacks, alacrity, quickness). So I would like this to be our primary function.

    Besides that, the spec should also provide some condition damage. Scourge has been a barrier support elite spec, but still got some more conditions with it as their damage type, so I would imagine something similar to this.

    Thematically, I would like it to be an alchemy based elite spec. Plague doctor would be my dream.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2020
    Some kind of temorary buffs like +150power/precision(or others) for team (ak bannerslave)

    I pressed back by accident and had a long post here but the gist of it was:
    It should probably be a non-essential spec similar to condi banner berserker: very good to have but not gamebreaking without it.

    Another power spec would be superfluous and a full on heal spec seems extraneous when scrapper exists. Medkit scrapper isn't taken in PVE because it doesn't have quickness, alacrity, or even fury (without turret trait which is clunky).

    While condi holo or core condi engineer are usable they currently require too much work to use over other condi specs while bringing nothing really unique other than pinpoint distribution. The tradeoff could very well be use of only one kit for example. A new spec with +100 to 150 expertise or something to that angle would be beneficial because banners do not have expertise.

    The likely weapon would be mace in melee range, I don't think axe / dagger / focus / staff / etc would be fitting. I also don't think bows really fit engineers. By having a melee weapon it would justify higher damage overall than pistol which is currently quite lacking.
    Could be easily auto with bleed, a gap closer of some sort whether a leap or pull (more thematic) on around 8-10 base cooldown, some sort of cleave skill with small PBAOE.

    Something that works similar to the old mine kit would probably be in line with that idea : it would be easier now to implement with the ammo system. Something less "technical" than gyros and holo forge / exceeds / etc and more in line with flamethrowers, toolkit, catapults, rams (Personal Battering Ram) , trebuchets ought to be the theme.

    If you look at snowcrows or luckynoobs most condi specs are only able to hit 100% condition duration for one or two damaging conditions (usually burning + bleeding) except for renegade with nightmare runes.

  • Noah Salazar.5430Noah Salazar.5430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2021
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    i think condi support with quickness and some stats bonus like 5%dps/condi/posion/burning/bleed to team per hit

  • Other

    Since arguably Scapper could be considered support in it's current state, I'd like to see a condi control focused espec but could lean into a condi DPS role if needed. Should also be ranged since Engi is already satuarated with melee based especs.

    Ideally I'd like core engi to get refocused into a condi DPS/Boon support role with turrets overhauled to provide boons as baseline then upgraded to meaningful boons like quickness/alacrity via a trait. Then the new espec could focus more on the control aspect side of things.

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    I feel as though Engineer is a somewhat selfish profession when it comes to giving out useful offensive boons. It converts condis to boons like no other thanks to 'Purity of Purpose' but it could stand to get more viable options for what it brings to the table in group play.

    Any weapon and theme will do. Just want a spec that contributes more.

    Zommoros giveth and Zommoros taketh away.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Noah Salazar.5430 said:
    i think condi support with quickness and some stats bonus like 5%dps/condi/posion/burning/bleed to team per hit

    ... ignoring the fact engineer already has a passive AoE damage buff to the team...

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    Machine gun go Brrrrrr!!!!

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Noah Salazar.5430 said:
    i think condi support with quickness and some stats bonus like 5%dps/condi/posion/burning/bleed to team per hit

    ... ignoring the fact engineer already has a passive AoE damage buff to the team...

    True, but ignoring the damage buff effect, he also mentions quickness.

    What is holding back engineer from being a meta healer for PvE end game is the lack of important boon support. We can't buff our team with 25 stacks of might nor do we have powerful boons like alacrity or quickness to share. I think an elite spec focused on boon support would be a great addition to engineer so we can finally fill the space of the healing support in these environments.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2021

    Imagine they actually made Engineer Cantha elite spec the Commando and focus on Utility Command skills which are basically large range AoE Shout party buffs and enemy debuffs

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2021

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Noah Salazar.5430 said:
    i think condi support with quickness and some stats bonus like 5%dps/condi/posion/burning/bleed to team per hit

    ... ignoring the fact engineer already has a passive AoE damage buff to the team...

    True, but ignoring the damage buff effect, he also mentions quickness.

    What is holding back engineer from being a meta healer for PvE end game is the lack of important boon support. We can't buff our team with 25 stacks of might nor do we have powerful boons like alacrity or quickness to share. I think an elite spec focused on boon support would be a great addition to engineer so we can finally fill the space of the healing support in these environments.

    Great addition to the engineer, horrible addition to a game where AoE boon support is destroying balance in WvW and making PvE a hollow shell of just having all the boons all the time. But I digress.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    i know it's very unlikely but having an "Armor Driver" or "Pilot" spec that operates a big golem/mech would be so cool

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    Went with the party support option. It's not what I personally dream of, but it's probably what's best for the game right now. Break up that Firebrand/Chronomancer/Renegade oligopoly, especially since guardians, mesmers, and revenants might want to get to use their new elite specialisations.

    Could easily combine with condi DPS like, well, the existing members of the aforementioned oligopoly.

    Something bannerlike is... well, I kinda think that the last thing the game needs is another bannerslave. Bannerslaves are locked to every 10-man composition for good reason - making something similar would probably end up being something that is similarly locked into 10-man compositions. Maybe if it was something that gave comparable bonuses but didn't stack with banners - that way it could conceivably serve as a substitute for the bannerslave - but a new set of bannerlike bonuses that stacked with the existing ones would likely quickly turn into one more role that you had to have to be optimised.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Went with the party support option. It's not what I personally dream of, but it's probably what's best for the game right now. Break up that Firebrand/Chronomancer/Renegade oligopoly, especially since guardians, mesmers, and revenants might want to get to use their new elite specialisations.

    Just out of interest: what do you personally dream of?

  • Condi dps (skills will be more condi oriented)

    @Noah Salazar.5430 said:
    We actualy have:
    Holo-> Dps
    Scrapper->Bruiser(tanky dps)/healer

    rather, we actualy have:

    Holo-> power melee
    Scrapper->power melee

    so please, next spec, ranged condi

  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    I... went with the last option. Sorry, but having a big metal pal is just a big engineer fantasy. The things we create are supposed to be our strength after all.
    Engineers do not use magic. And they lack the training of warriors, thieves, and rangers. BUT! They have a lot of tools and creative minds. That should be the core strength. So, golem lends itself very well to this =)

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Oxstar.7643 said:
    I... went with the last option. Sorry, but having a big metal pal is just a big engineer fantasy. The things we create are supposed to be our strength after all.
    Engineers do not use magic. And they lack the training of warriors, thieves, and rangers. BUT! They have a lot of tools and creative minds. That should be the core strength. So, golem lends itself very well to this =)

    I consider a "golemancer" spec to be literally the worst case scenario for the engineer...

    • it would likely end up with AI in some form, which generally is bad in this game (there is a reason gyros got reworked into wells)
    • it doesn't add anything new to the game, we all already saw pet golems countless of times and also have driven a golem mecha suit so often that I lost count. And if you really want it badly, you can create an Asuran engineer and have the golem summon or mecha suit as your racial elite skill...
    • it uses the Asuran aesthetics and flair, which holosmith already did as our last elite spec
  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    No, not a companion. A piloted combat mech :D

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Oxstar.7643 said:
    I... went with the last option. Sorry, but having a big metal pal is just a big engineer fantasy. The things we create are supposed to be our strength after all.
    Engineers do not use magic. And they lack the training of warriors, thieves, and rangers. BUT! They have a lot of tools and creative minds. That should be the core strength. So, golem lends itself very well to this =)

    I consider a "golemancer" spec to be literally the worst case scenario for the engineer...

    • it would likely end up with AI in some form, which generally is bad in this game (there is a reason gyros got reworked into wells)
    • it doesn't add anything new to the game, we all already saw pet golems countless of times and also have driven a golem mecha suit so often that I lost count. And if you really want it badly, you can create an Asuran engineer and have the golem summon or mecha suit as your racial elite skill...
    • it uses the Asuran aesthetics and flair, which holosmith already did as our last elite spec

    Might as well just make it a Ironman suite and be done with it anyways.

    That is all certain people ask for when they want a Engineer Elite Spec that specialize in piloting a Golem/Mech.

  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    Pretty much. A combat mech to pilot and kick butt in. This is actually a pretty classic concept and people still like it. I'm not against something more creative. But I'm banking on a classic concept with plenty of inspiration to draw on rather than a much more original concept that has a much higher chance to fail.

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Noah Salazar.5430 said:
    We actualy have:
    Holo-> Dps
    Scrapper->Bruiser(tanky dps)/healer

    How is scrapper a healer?

    [NUKE]

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Samug.6512 said:

    @Noah Salazar.5430 said:
    We actualy have:
    Holo-> Dps
    Scrapper->Bruiser(tanky dps)/healer

    How is scrapper a healer?

    Scrapper is utilised in a healer build for WvW.

    But that is mostly because gyros give at least some benefit for the healer role (purge gyro and bulwark gyro) and engineer lacks a third supportive trait line.
    Almost all traits in the scrapper line don't help anything with the healer role, the trait line is almost exclusively selfish.

    But people still use this as an argument that scrapper is our "support/healer elite spec"....

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Oxstar.7643 said:
    Pretty much. A combat mech to pilot and kick butt in. This is actually a pretty classic concept and people still like it. I'm not against something more creative. But I'm banking on a classic concept with plenty of inspiration to draw on rather than a much more original concept that has a much higher chance to fail.

    What about the other points I provided....
    It doesn't add anything new to the game, we already piloted a mecha suit endless times, both in the story and in stuff like WvW.
    Also the thing about reusing the Asura aesthetic after holosmith again.

    I understand that it kinda is a power fantasy for some engineer players to pilot such a thing.... but you already can. Just use the Asura racials if it's really about that fantasy, as I said.

  • Noah Salazar.5430Noah Salazar.5430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    How is scrapper a healer?

    Scrapper aslo give might to team (blast gyro) what is kinda healer job

    I understand that it kinda is a power fantasy for some engineer players to pilot such a thing....

    @Kodama.6453
    Don't try understand it lul xd
    it's the way you live

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    @Noah Salazar.5430 said:

    How is scrapper a healer?


    Scrapper aslo give might to team (blast gyro) what is kinda healer job

    Yeah no. That's not written anywhere and it's never been set in stone.

    I don't necessarily mind a "support" spec but boons right now aren't scarce enough and if you want another clownish boon-farting concept you might as well jump on Guardian/Mesmer/Rev instead of wasting an Engi spec slot that would kind of overlap with Scrapper currently struggling to exist beyond support.

    There's nothing I expect from said spec but god that would be boring if it was that one-dimensional.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @MrForz.1953 said:

    How is scrapper a healer?

    Scrapper aslo give might to team (blast gyro) what is kinda healer job

    Yeah no. That's not written anywhere and it's never been set in stone.

    I don't necessarily mind a "support" spec but boons right now aren't scarce enough and if you want another clownish boon-farting concept you might as well jump on Guardian/Mesmer/Rev instead of wasting an Engi spec slot that would kind of overlap with Scrapper currently struggling to exist beyond support.

    There's nothing I expect from said spec but god that would be boring if it was that one-dimensional.

    Who says that is has to be one dimensional?

    Scourge, for example, is a supportive elite spec for necromancer. It is not one dimensional, since it focuses on barrier application as well as having some boon support and also enhancing the necromancer's condition damage.

    If people say that they expect a boon support elite spec, that doesn't mean it is literally all they do. Most likely our next elite spec will enhance our condition damage as well, considering that both elite specs so far have been power based and engineer is lacking in condition damage heavily.
    The only utility skills providing condition damage for us are kits (hence why you run 3 kits in a condition damage build). Our condition weapon (pistol) pretty much sucks rn.
    We basically just have 1 real condition damage trait line, firearms.

    So it is to be expected that we get condition damage from the next elite spec anyway. However, I still think the main focus should be a boon support, since this is what is holding back engineer to become a meta healer for high end PvE content like fractals, strike missions and raids.

  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Oxstar.7643 said:
    Pretty much. A combat mech to pilot and kick butt in. This is actually a pretty classic concept and people still like it. I'm not against something more creative. But I'm banking on a classic concept with plenty of inspiration to draw on rather than a much more original concept that has a much higher chance to fail.

    What about the other points I provided....
    It doesn't add anything new to the game, we already piloted a mecha suit endless times, both in the story and in stuff like WvW.
    Also the thing about reusing the Asura aesthetic after holosmith again.

    I understand that it kinda is a power fantasy for some engineer players to pilot such a thing.... but you already can. Just use the Asura racials if it's really about that fantasy, as I said.

    The asura racial is very bad to the point where nobody uses it and it doesn't utilize even a fraction of the potential. The reason why a piloted mech is currently the leading suggestion is because people want it done right, and have it be a reliable main feature, rather than a lengthy cooldown for a terribad, clunky, unwieldy ugly suit of junk.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Oxstar.7643 said:

    The asura racial is very bad to the point where nobody uses it and it doesn't utilize even a fraction of the potential. The reason why a piloted mech is currently the leading suggestion is because people want it done right, and have it be a reliable main feature, rather than a lengthy cooldown for a terribad, clunky, unwieldy ugly suit of junk.

    So basically this suggestion boils down to "Yes, I want to explore something that is already in the game again, because I think it is not implemented properly".
    Which feeds into one of my points: it provides nothing new. It is just rebuilding something that is already in the game, which would take out alot of the excitement about it for me.

    So, I would pay to get a stronger version of something I already have. Hard pass for me and actually a reason not to consider to buy this expansion.
    Then there is also still the point about the aesthetics you didn't mention at all still: we already have an elite spec with heavy Asuran flair, holosmith. It was the very last elite spec we got. A golem mecha suit will most definitely also use the Asuran aesthetic, since this kind of technology just makes the most sense with Asuran tech in the lore.

    Also do you have any data about this being "the leading suggestion"? I see it mentioned alot, but would still not consider this to be the leading suggestion. And that doesn't mean it wouldn't be bad for the game, even if it would be the leading one... I see AI minions suggested for engineer a ton and still have to argue to people why this would just be a terrible idea.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other

    Why not Ranged Power DPS?

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other

    build oriented for water content

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Why not Ranged Power DPS?

    Both elite specs we had so far are heavily skewed towards power damage already.
    The next elite spec should utilise conditions for their damage output.

    Especially if we consider that basically all condition damage engineer has currently is located on kits, forcing you to play with 3 kits (bomb, flamethrower, grenade) for the condi dps playstyle.

    Scrapper and holosmith brought alternatives to kits for engineer in power builds. Skills like shredder gyro and laserdisk are strong enough to warrant using an utility slot for them if your goal is to deal power damage.
    It would be great if we could get skills which do the same for condi builds.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Why not Ranged Power DPS?

    Both elite specs we had so far are heavily skewed towards power damage already.
    The next elite spec should utilise conditions for their damage output.

    Yea but Ranged.
    Engi has really meh Ranged capabilities.
    Grenades and Mortars are both bad to use.
    Rifle got nerfed.
    Elixir Gun is more Condi than Power.
    Pistol.... lol.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Lonewolf Kai.3682Lonewolf Kai.3682 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    Driving a big mech sounds fun so I chose the last option.

    “Be like water”-Bruce Lee

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Yea but Ranged.
    Engi has really meh Ranged capabilities.
    Grenades and Mortars are both bad to use.
    Rifle got nerfed.
    Elixir Gun is more Condi than Power.
    Pistol.... lol.

    It is true that our ranged capabilities are really meh right now.
    But I get the feeling that we might get a melee condition weapon this time (yes, a third melee elite spec weapon...).

    Pistols are bad right now and need help, no one can deny that. But they kinda are supposed to fill the "ranged condition weapon" for engineer.
    While grenades feel bad to use because of the ground targeting that is constantly required for them, they seem to perform well at least as ranged weapons. Remember people being up in arms because of the infamous "grenade holo"?

    Meanwhile we don't have anything that could get interpreted as a melee condi weapon right now. The closest we have to that is bomb kit, but it is actually a mixed damage kit. The toolbelt and auto attack pack quite a punch in power damage, even if fire bomb is a really strong condi skill.
    I could image that Anet wants to change this and give us a melee condi weapon...

    Note: I don't say this is what should happen, but I can easily see this happening as Anet's train of thought.

    Edit: And thinking about it, if they really go for a support elite spec to enable us as healers and add condi damage to it, then a melee weapon could synergise better with the intended playstyle eventually. Healing engineers want to be close to their allies because of medical dispersion field and med kit, which is short ranged on the healing auto attack. A melee supportive weapon with conditions would probably be better utilised in these scenarios.

  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Oxstar.7643 said:

    The asura racial is very bad to the point where nobody uses it and it doesn't utilize even a fraction of the potential. The reason why a piloted mech is currently the leading suggestion is because people want it done right, and have it be a reliable main feature, rather than a lengthy cooldown for a terribad, clunky, unwieldy ugly suit of junk.

    So basically this suggestion boils down to "Yes, I want to explore something that is already in the game again, because I think it is not implemented properly".
    Which feeds into one of my points: it provides nothing new. It is just rebuilding something that is already in the game, which would take out alot of the excitement about it for me.

    So, I would pay to get a stronger version of something I already have. Hard pass for me and actually a reason not to consider to buy this expansion.
    Then there is also still the point about the aesthetics you didn't mention at all still: we already have an elite spec with heavy Asuran flair, holosmith. It was the very last elite spec we got. A golem mecha suit will most definitely also use the Asuran aesthetic, since this kind of technology just makes the most sense with Asuran tech in the lore.

    Also do you have any data about this being "the leading suggestion"? I see it mentioned alot, but would still not consider this to be the leading suggestion. And that doesn't mean it wouldn't be bad for the game, even if it would be the leading one... I see AI minions suggested for engineer a ton and still have to argue to people why this would just be a terrible idea.

    To be short: Yes, I AM asking for them to expand upon a concept that is currently a weak racial nobody uses into a full and worthy elite specc. And that won't change, thank you. And when I say leading suggestion, I obviously meant out of the ones in the poll of this thread. Out of those who have voted, the majority thus far wants this. As for the aesthetics, those can be anything. You're actually the only one here thinking it has to be asuran. And, where does it say holosmith is asuran tech? I've never seen them make solid weapons out of light, have you?

    Also please no condition speccs, the game is already saturated with condition builds. That would unironically be LESS creative than a well executed piloted mech concept. There is already a very strong condition build with mid to melee range for holosmith, and it's one of the top thread. No need to invent a new elite specc out of something we already have, and have done very well.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Some kind of temorary buffs like +150power/precision(or others) for team (ak bannerslave)

    @Oxstar.7643 said:
    I've never seen them make solid weapons out of light, have you?

    What about all the holographic SAB stuff? Have you never seen that?

    A hologram is a 3D light field and the SAB technology weaponized that.
    Scarlet used the same Asuran technology as well.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Oxstar.7643 said:

    To be short: Yes, I AM asking for them to expand upon a concept that is currently a weak racial nobody uses into a full and worthy elite specc. And that won't change, thank you.

    Fair enough, I never said you can't want that. I just voice my own opinion that I think this wouldn't be a good direction for the engineer, since it is just rebuilding stuff that we already know. And especially something we already experienced ourselves, like I said, there are many story instances in which you pilot a suit. Getting something that is really new thematically would be the more exciting option in my opinion.

    As for the aesthetics, those can be anything. You're actually the only one here thinking it has to be asuran.

    In the lore, there are 2 precedence cases for mecha suits so far: mining suits from the Dredge and the golem suits from the Asura.
    From a lore point of view, these 2 options are the most logical for a mecha suit elite spec.
    And both share aesthetic designs with the elite specs we have so far.

    Dredge mining suits share design space with the scrapper, being made out of repurposed scrap metal.
    Asuran golem suits would most likely end up with the Asuran design trademarks, which were already used for holosmith.

    And, where does it say holosmith is asuran tech? I've never seen them make solid weapons out of light, have you?

    Fueki already mentioned examples, yes, holomancy is primarily an Asuran technology. The lore explanation for holosmith says that it uses Zephyrite crystals and that humans invented the photonforge, but I am talking about aesthetics here.

    By Anet's very own statement: they have used Asuran design for the holosmith.

    Also please no condition speccs, the game is already saturated with condition builds. That would unironically be LESS creative than a well executed piloted mech concept. There is already a very strong condition build with mid to melee range for holosmith, and it's one of the top thread. No need to invent a new elite specc out of something we already have, and have done very well.

    I think it is inevitable at this point that our next elite spec weapon will give us condition damage. Both our last 2 elite spec weapons are pure power weapons. Wouldn't make much sense to give us a third power weapon for an elite spec when engineer to this point still just has 1 condition weapon (pistol).

    I don't think that the primary focus of the spec will be condition damage, tho. I think it will be a support spec (like scourge or druid), which will enhance the condi damage some for our class (scourge did the same for necromancer).

    It would also be highly welcomed to have some condition damage utility skills which are not kits. There is a condition damage build for holosmith, but it is still hard locked to pick 3 kits (bomb, grenade, flamethrower), since all our condition damage comes from kits.
    Holosmith and scrapper gave engineer some other utility skills we can pick for power damage, so we are no longer hard forced to pick 3 kits for a power damage build. I think the next elite spec should do the same for condition builds.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Went with the party support option. It's not what I personally dream of, but it's probably what's best for the game right now. Break up that Firebrand/Chronomancer/Renegade oligopoly, especially since guardians, mesmers, and revenants might want to get to use their new elite specialisations.

    Just out of interest: what do you personally dream of?

    I think we've discussed previously, but:

    Long-range sniping weapon, and electricity theme, similar to the various tech-based lightning rods and rifles you have floating around in so many hearts and dynamic events. Essentially, something that can really fill the hole in the heart left by GW1 air elementalist. GW2 elementalists don't and really can't - their design is based around attunement-swapping through multiple elements. Beyond that, mesmer has some aesthetics in common, but engineer is probably the most likely to really pull off that lightning-crazy feel. We've got bits of it in core engineer and scrapper, but in core engineer it's basically Static Discharge and Static Shot (and you usually don't want to try to run both due to one being power-based and the other being condition) and if you go to scrapper hammer and utilities, it becomes a close-in brawler with about as much in common with what I have in mind as fresh air dagger tempests do.

    But for the time being, a support spec, alchemy-themed or otherwise, is more important.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    I think we've discussed previously, but:

    Long-range sniping weapon, and electricity theme, similar to the various tech-based lightning rods and rifles you have floating around in so many hearts and dynamic events. Essentially, something that can really fill the hole in the heart left by GW1 air elementalist. GW2 elementalists don't and really can't - their design is based around attunement-swapping through multiple elements. Beyond that, mesmer has some aesthetics in common, but engineer is probably the most likely to really pull off that lightning-crazy feel. We've got bits of it in core engineer and scrapper, but in core engineer it's basically Static Discharge and Static Shot (and you usually don't want to try to run both due to one being power-based and the other being condition) and if you go to scrapper hammer and utilities, it becomes a close-in brawler with about as much in common with what I have in mind as fresh air dagger tempests do.

    But for the time being, a support spec, alchemy-themed or otherwise, is more important.

    Ah yes, I remember that discussion.

    Still think that revenant also is a valid candidate for this "lightning crazy" theme you envision.
    This class is thematically already built on the ritualist from guild wars 1, which was the second "lightning heavy" caster in that game alongside the elementalist.
    Giving a revenant spec with powers borrowed from a legend who was wielding lightning seems not too farfetched in my opinion.

    And even if we don't go for the "ritualist" theme, there are other legends to draw inspiration from. A legendary Naga stance, for example, was brought up recently in some discussions, mostly about Hanasha Coralfin, who was a Naga priestress with major influence.
    Naga in general were using water and air magic in guild wars 1, especially attacks based on lightning were common.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    I want to deal with mechs. Let me create stuff that last. Heck, give me the option to build barricades/obstacles that damage enemies and knock them back, block projectiles and the like. Let me create golems or robots that can be sic-ed on enemies to blow up. Engineer has always been a class that incorporate other classes ideas and roles but not as well, an elite spec to reflect it would be nice. As for the weapon, staff or mace would do the trick. If staff, make it something like a rod and give it some area support for mechanized units for example so that whatever you create, you can support. If mace, make it a one handed -hammer- for one, because we dont really have many maces that use the warhammer design, make it heavy on the stun and debuff maybe.

    Briefly put, I want an engineer that works with engines. Scrapper came close to that, but ended up turning into more of a close combat monster that does everything on his own. Engineer would work very well as a summoning class. Dethrone Necros for a bit.

    Or make turrets functional again.

  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    It would also be highly welcomed to have some condition damage utility skills which are not kits. There is a condition damage build for holosmith, but it is still hard locked to pick 3 kits (bomb, grenade, flamethrower), since all our condition damage comes from kits.
    Holosmith and scrapper gave engineer some other utility skills we can pick for power damage, so we are no longer hard forced to pick 3 kits for a power damage build. I think the next elite spec should do the same for condition builds.

    No? The current condition build for holosmith on the board uses ONE kit, flamethrower. The other two is for elixir B, for might, fury, and retaliation, and hard light arena, for more fury and some momentary tanking. Also, kits is a core mechanic of the class, I'm not sure why people keeps asking for anything that does away with it.
    Then again, turrets was supposed to also be a core mechanic and they happily did away with that.

  • Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    Some sort of support role for sure.

    Not sure what weapon, but Engi has gotten two melee weapons back to back, so why not a new ranged weapon. Bring up either staff or scepter, and sling some chemicals around.

    That said mechs and machine guns do in fact go brrr

  • Rezzet.3614Rezzet.3614 Member ✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    idk i just want a ranged well/non projectile aoe spamming spec or something so 90% of the engineer wasnt passively countered in WVW cuz of anti projectile hate
    so i guess i'd go with some support staff thing

    or buff them turrets and give us mechs and stuff and give us a Mechanist spec

  • Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Some sort of support role for sure.

    Not sure what weapon, but Engi has gotten two melee weapons back to back, so why not a new ranged weapon. Bring up either staff or scepter, and sling some chemicals around.

    That said mechs and machine guns do in fact go brrr

    If we're aiming for staff, it might make more sense for the elite spec to be sound-themed instead of alchemy-themed, using the staff as some sort of tuning fork, resembling something like this staff skin already in the game. But I'll be happy with anything as long as it's not melee power DPS (although hammer is unironically the best ranged weapon that engineer has, since its one ranged skill is significantly stronger than anything on rifle at that range).

  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    Grenades would like a word. Or are kits not weapons now?

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2021

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Who says that is has to be one dimensional?

    Scourge, for example, is a supportive elite spec for necromancer. It is not one dimensional, since it focuses on barrier application as well as having some boon support and also enhancing the necromancer's condition damage.

    If people say that they expect a boon support elite spec, that doesn't mean it is literally all they do. Most likely our next elite spec will enhance our condition damage as well, considering that both elite specs so far have been power based and engineer is lacking in condition damage heavily.

    Here's the thing: Scourge provides some boon support. The poll literally says "Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)" which is what's commonly asked of raids. That asks for a free pass and possibly get ahead of other meta supports by doing what they do but better and with Engineer stamped on it, that screams one dimensional on that goal.

    And since we're talking boons, let's talk Elixirs: One of my solo (and PvP to an extent) builds uses diviner gear, Holosmith and chugs Elixir H, B and U like an addict. If their tossed version was any decent at applying the key boons to the team one wouldn't need to waste a spec slot around boons and boon vomiting could be a viable thing even on core.

    Same for the med kit, it could simply be slightly better at what it does outside WvW and you'd have your healer base. The specs would be simply be layers of flavors veiling all that instead of being the elevator from zero to meta.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Oxstar.7643 said:
    Grenades would like a word. Or are kits not weapons now?

    Mechanically, they're not. Weapons don't require you to give up a utility slot.
    But even if we include them, as others have said they're not particularly good to use. If they're not traited, they move slowly, and they are all projectile based, meaning they're heavily countered in blob fights. Not to mention that they're all ground targeted, with no auto-attack.

  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2021
    I want drive big golem like Taimi and smash that not so smart poll, also mashingun do brrrrr, and rockets bam bam >:(

    @ThrakathNar.4537 said:

    @Oxstar.7643 said:
    Grenades would like a word. Or are kits not weapons now?

    Mechanically, they're not. Weapons don't require you to give up a utility slot.
    But even if we include them, as others have said they're not particularly good to use. If they're not traited, they move slowly, and they are all projectile based, meaning they're heavily countered in blob fights. Not to mention that they're all ground targeted, with no auto-attack.

    Traiting for the weapons you want to use. Yes indeed, this is what happens in this game. Also, I'm tired of this give up a utility slot for a weapons "argument".
    Engineer is a class that is about combining various weapons skills from both your kits and weapons into chains appropriate for the situation at hand.
    Kits are not MEANT to be a replacement for your regular weapons. They are supposed to provide you with additional flexibility and utility, which they do well.
    If you want to swap to a mode which you can just stay in and use the same skills then play elementalist instead, although weaver actually operates on the same line of thinking.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    I think we've discussed previously, but:

    Long-range sniping weapon, and electricity theme, similar to the various tech-based lightning rods and rifles you have floating around in so many hearts and dynamic events. Essentially, something that can really fill the hole in the heart left by GW1 air elementalist. GW2 elementalists don't and really can't - their design is based around attunement-swapping through multiple elements. Beyond that, mesmer has some aesthetics in common, but engineer is probably the most likely to really pull off that lightning-crazy feel. We've got bits of it in core engineer and scrapper, but in core engineer it's basically Static Discharge and Static Shot (and you usually don't want to try to run both due to one being power-based and the other being condition) and if you go to scrapper hammer and utilities, it becomes a close-in brawler with about as much in common with what I have in mind as fresh air dagger tempests do.

    But for the time being, a support spec, alchemy-themed or otherwise, is more important.

    Ah yes, I remember that discussion.

    Still think that revenant also is a valid candidate for this "lightning crazy" theme you envision.
    This class is thematically already built on the ritualist from guild wars 1, which was the second "lightning heavy" caster in that game alongside the elementalist.
    Giving a revenant spec with powers borrowed from a legend who was wielding lightning seems not too farfetched in my opinion.

    And even if we don't go for the "ritualist" theme, there are other legends to draw inspiration from. A legendary Naga stance, for example, was brought up recently in some discussions, mostly about Hanasha Coralfin, who was a Naga priestress with major influence.
    Naga in general were using water and air magic in guild wars 1, especially attacks based on lightning were common.

    Yes and no. As I think has also already discussed before, I don't think ArenaNet's intention with Revenant is to just give it a bucketload of "run this if you really want to play GW1 ritualist again" elites. It has its own theme and design principles. Renegade has pretty much already done that. Revenant should do its own thing from here on.

    Engineer is, in fact, pretty explicitly the successor to the ritualist playstyle (if anything, it's the other way around: the purpose of ritualist was to give an engineer playstyle in a low-tech setting). And there's plenty of precedent for technological devices producing long-range electric discharges, with a couple of examples even being found among the charr, and some cases already being found in the engineer's kit.

    But this probably isn't the thread for discussing either in depth.

  • Support that buff alac/quickness to team (+might ofc)

    @Oxstar.7643 said:

    @ThrakathNar.4537 said:

    @Oxstar.7643 said:
    Grenades would like a word. Or are kits not weapons now?

    Mechanically, they're not. Weapons don't require you to give up a utility slot.
    But even if we include them, as others have said they're not particularly good to use. If they're not traited, they move slowly, and they are all projectile based, meaning they're heavily countered in blob fights. Not to mention that they're all ground targeted, with no auto-attack.

    Traiting for the weapons you want to use. Yes indeed, this is what happens in this game. Also, I'm tired of this give up a utility slot for a weapons "argument".
    Engineer is a class that is about combining various weapons skills from both your kits and weapons into chains appropriate for the situation at hand.
    Kits are not MEANT to be a replacement for your regular weapons. They are supposed to provide you with additional flexibility and utility, which they do well.
    If you want to swap to a mode which you can just stay in and use the same skills then play elementalist instead, although weaver actually operates on the same line of thinking.

    I'm really not sure what you're trying to say across your comments. Do you think kits and weapons are the same (because you have said they both are and aren't)? Do you think engineer doesn't need any more ranged capabilities? Also, if a kit doesn't take up a utility slot that could be filled with an elixir or gadget, then what is it taking up?
    It would be helpful to know your thoughts on what sort of weapon the next engineer elite spec should get.