Make Healers work in PvE

So there is this annoying thing that I've seen in PvE that if you're going for a support class then you're not doing enough damage to tag all those monsters in an event, thus you're losing your rewards that dps folks are getting.Now I do wonder if this issue can be solved especially with more and more classes coming out with Healing abilities (which is a fun role to play to begin with). My solution could be that Healing your allies in combat = Dealing damage to monsters (when it comes to participation and drops). So if you've healed enough damage then you share that tag/tap participation that the dude or dudette has done to a monster.Should be an easy fix, right? :+1:

To be honest it never happened to me that I'd not get maximum Event reward/ chest, not even with Magi Druid and healing 90% of the time. The Maximum Reward requirements from event are pretty low. Just hit the boss few times and it's OK. You can't be healing 100% of the time to not be able to hit few thrash mobs in the process too.

@Alatar.7364 said:To be honest it never happened to me that I'd not get maximum Event reward/ chest, not even with Magi Druid and healing 90% of the time. The Maximum Reward requirements from event are pretty low. Just hit the boss few times and it's OK. You can't be healing 100% of the time to not be able to hit few thrash mobs in the process too.

Well there have been some builds like the Firebrand that has awesome support but requires you to stay in the tomes dealing 0 damage all together, then if you go ele staff in water you're basically stuck in the healing part (focused on healing) that you rarely even use the autoattack since you're off blasting fields and reviving. Cases like this do actually require some adjustments

Wait, do we even need a fix? Healbots easily reach like 3K power buffed. That's enough for tagging just as much as a full zerker in open PvE, it's not like you need to do much damage anyway.

The system of healing people that do damage while you do less damage on the target in order to get loot is otherwise already active in WvW.

the thing is that firebrand's heal tomes literally do not hit enemies

@"reikken.4961" said:the thing is that firebrand's heal tomes literally do not hit enemies

I realize it's not a "proper" solution, but you could swap some of your utility skills for summoned weapons, just so you can tag a foe.

You don't even need to swap a utility, just don't camp tome 2 all the time. A few autos or symbol ticks are sufficient for a tag, while open world stuff doesn't require constant massive healing. In the end, it certainly won't hurt to make event contribution a bit more healer-friendly, but that's not a high priority.

Anything that damage over 1k will make players take credit for, something that my mace shield guard... rarely does ._.

@Nabuko Darayon.9645 said:if you go ele staff in water you're basically stuck in the healing part (focused on healing) that you rarely even use the autoattack since you're off blasting fields

Blasting fields can deal dmg too. Ans autoattack is very important to constantly use it as a healing staff ele: Autoattack + Soothing Mist (with trait) + Regeneration = 2k Healing per second, with the correct gear and build, so you only have to blast for healing burst.

Or maybe you could not camp resolve/courage tomes and save them for "oh shit moments", and use your weapons to hit the enemies. Open world PvE rarely needs healers anyways. If you're only healing during metas, world bosses or anything that scales, you're just bringing the team down most of the time.

I don't get the problem ... EVERY class has the option to swap builds for the content they are playing. If you are playing a healing build in one of those events, then you are doing it wrong.

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... EVERY class has the option to swap builds for the content they are playing. If you are playing a healing build in one of those events, then you are doing it wrong.

Swapping builds is a nightmare in this game. I stopped playing my ranger altogether in open world because I got fed up with changing from healing druid to condi soulbeast every time I wanted to play open world.

Now imagine if we had build templates where I can swap my gear, traits and skills with 1-2 clicks. Wow, a groundbreaking discovery.

@reikken.4961 said:the thing is that firebrand's heal tomes literally do not hit enemies

The hell are you using tomes in Pve Metas anyway....Basic 101- do not help those who refuse to help themselves. Most people will not dodge, its not your responsibility to kelp them alive.Basic 102- there are enough people for you to not use tomes.I run a minstrel firebrand now, and ran a support Guardian from launch until elite specs. I have never had problem tagging loot, while also booning. If you've played a support character long enough in this game, you'll learn when you play in the open world, what you do is irrelevant. People will refuse to Dodge and waypoint, its not your job to hold their hand.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... EVERY class has the option to swap builds for the content they are playing. If you are playing a healing build in one of those events, then you are doing it wrong.

Yup, but that doesn't change what I said. I agree with templates, but I have a feeling that's either a very long way off or not going to happen because it affects revenues; bank/character space is directly tied to gem store sales.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... EVERY class has the option to swap builds for the content they are playing. If you are playing a healing build in one of those events, then you are doing it wrong.

It doesn't because build templates can be monetized. Double win for players and anet. And it would definitely push build diversity. Because I am pretty sure there are more lazy people like me who are annoyed because of how annoying swapping builds is in this game.

My personal feels on the mater, is that it was a bad decision on Anets part to try and implement "roles" into this game, and the last thing I would ever do is support further breakdown into rewarding the myopic playing of a single role, at the exclusion of contributing more to the group or party.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... EVERY class has the option to swap builds for the content they are playing. If you are playing a healing build in one of those events, then you are doing it wrong.

We are a little off topic here. OP want's healing builds to be relevant to a broader selection of content in the game. That's not a realistic view, considering the philosophy the game was sold to people in the first place. The answer to his problem comes down to this: Don't play builds that aren't good for whatever content you are doing if performance is a factor to you.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... EVERY class has the option to swap builds for the content they are playing. If you are playing a healing build in one of those events, then you are doing it wrong.

That's true. But, If OP had a tool, let's call it build templates, that would allow him to switch builds fast and easy, he would be more likely to change build. Because, at this point, I share the frustration and understand why some customers are unhappy with constant clicking to switch builds for different areas of the game.

Yup that's true ... but it doesn't change the reality of his problem as the game is designed NOW. His suggestion does not fit in with the current design of the game. You can't really reward healing in this game, or any game, because healing doesn't result in kills. How would that work? Killing a mob is a YES/NO reward system. You kill it, you get something ... so how would healing reward you? I can't think of a YES/NO reward system for rewarding healing a person that would make sense. I can't even think of a continuous reward scale system that would work. Ultimately, the game is designed so that you get loot for a kill and since healing doesn't kill, what would it's reward system be based on?

@Obtena.7952 said:Yup that's true ... but it doesn't change the reality of his problem as the game is designed NOW. His suggestion does not fit in with the current design of the game.

They kinda adressed this in relation to meta events. You need to hit boss multiple times to start your event participation and after this your support skills are contributing for meta rewards. It doesn't change the fact that you still need to hit mobs to get loot but there are so many skills in this game it really isn't much of a problem.

Sure, so, what's the complaint then ... even as a healer he tags mobs and gets loot. How does a developer resolve the fact that the reward system for healing is not a binary system like killing a mob? Does he get loot for the mob AND for healing people? So is that fair that he's getting more loot but effectively doing less to kill the mob? What if the group doesn't need healing and he's overhealing them? Rewarding healing is just way to complicated to bother thinking about for a holy trinity game ... much less this one.

I don't think that there needs to be an increase in event credit for healing in open world PvE content.

As much as i want to agree with you, if you are only healing and arent even doing enough dmg to boss to get credit, then you are more of a liability to the meta/event than a help :|

The content is designed to not need healers but does upscale bosses hp by assuming you will output a baseline of dmg. If you cant even equal that baseline you are just making event harder. Keeping others alive wont compensate for that, especially as most heals require people to be stacked on top of you, and in metas thats just not going to happen with people all over the place.

So for now id have to say I really dont want healing to be rewarded unless they redesign how scaling of stuff works.

No just no

Uh which event in the game has both the need to tag lots of mobs AND benefit from a healer? For example in the Ulgoth pre there is a lot of mobs to tags but a healer is basically useless so seems fitting if you don't get as much loot for bringing something completely inappropriate there.