PvP/WvW Skill Split Release — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP/WvW Skill Split Release

Hey folks,

The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team are working together on an upcoming skill split release. We've posted a list of our first draft of proposed changes. We'd love your feedback. Please try to keep the feedback to the original post so that we can view the feedback in one place!

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release

Ben Phongluangtham
Game Designer
Reddit: ANET_BenP
Twitch: AnetBenP

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Comments

  • Coalescence of Ruin: Reduced the power coefficient of the second impact from 1.75 to 1.5 (-14%) in WvW only. Reduced the power coefficient of the third impact from 2.25 to 1.75 (-22%) in WvW only.

    Desert Shroud: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Those changes for WvW... lol anet ok

  • GOD BLESS!

    Maguuma

    VR

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    More meaningless buffs to rev huge nerfs though thanks again you guys take all the goodies.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Takeaway I have is they are truly trying to split the WvW skills from the power and damage madness that is PvE. Hopefully, after trialing the changes for a few weeks and constructive feedback, they will be open to more tweaks.

    I am glad they are splitting them TBH.

  • The CoR + Desert Shroud + FB healing nerfs will definitely change the landscape.

    IMHO delegating all sustain/survival to 1FB + 1Scourge in your party and everybody else run glass is a crappy situation for everybody.

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    Please nerf rezing skills, like transfusion and merciful intervention in WvW. With proposed changes, damage seems to be nerfed across the board and even now it's hard to finish people if enemy stacks 5 blood necros. And merciful intervention can insta rez with only 1 guard using it, it even scales of of modifiers.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks,

    The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team are working together on an upcoming skill split release. We've posted a list of our first draft of proposed changes. We'd love your feedback. Please try to keep the feedback to the original post so that we can view the feedback in one place!

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release

    I appreciate that the team is looking to make some changes between pve and wvw/spvp.

    Some feedback from a player who use to be a competitive support role player before esports and twitch were a thing...

    Ranger-
    The changes to ranger Celestial Avatar are killing the team healing aspect of this build. With HoT the team decided to add more playable roles, yet, changes keep being made to Druid that discourage playing said role. The team built Druid to be a healer for fast paced and hard hitting combat, yet you gate our ability to heal for A WHOPPING 20 seconds... Druid form is already easy to shut down through hard control skills (knock backs, interrupts, daze, immob) and poison debuffs all heals by 33%... If you are attempting to cater to those duelers, who mostly run around with zerker builds that have zero toughness, then you are making a realy bad mistake. It's awful for the team to put any support player in a position where they have to appoligize to their team because they were locked out of their main heals due to timers (like I have had to do). This 20s is not a good design when there are tons of counters to the build. Staff is not a quality healing weapon to rely on either.

    Druid staff auto is already horrible damage and low heals, yet it needs to be reduced why? When I'm running around in wvw and getting blasted for thousands of damage, the staff auto doesn't even compare... Staff 2 is useless in wvw. Staff 3 is great utility. Staff 4 misses all those moving targets. Staff 5 is pretty ineffective compared to a ton of skills I can bring up... Overall it's a low quality weapon design and that's all the team can come up with? Meanwhile I'm destroying things on my staff Daredevil and able to spamming skill 5 for 10k bursts multiple times... but Ranger staff auto is problematic? I got wrecked on my necro in full trailblazer in like 3 seconds by a Mesmer burst out of stealth for 24k, but druid staff auto?

    Here are some real suggestions for Druid...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9803/druid-changes#latest

    Ranger pet problems that have been an issue since alpha...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9788/when-are-major-pet-issues-getting-fixed#latest

    Both daggers need a competitive redo...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/568/daggers-need-redo-and-backstab#latest

    Zero changes to make playing support roles smooth and fun are ever made, so maybe take a gander...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9830/playing-heal-support-not-enjoyable#latest

    Necro-

    Suffers from the least amount of build diversity for wvw and spvp. Poorest mobility. Slowest overall skill casting speeds. Poor utility and defensive skills comparatively. Worst performing power builds and worst melee weapons. It's basically go condi or go home. I appreciate some cooldown reductions, but you are missing the big issues that were mentioned above.

    Meanwhile condis keep getting nerfed because the system is not redone...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/12148/my-cute-lil-necro-would-like-22-999k-opening-burst-too#latest

    How many effective GS reapers do we encounter in wvw and spvp? not many, because the GS needs a competitive redo.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9819/greatsword-changes#latest

    Please don't take anything I've said as rude, but the team has remained in the spread sheet trap of "change a few numbers" balancing, while not addressing the real balance issues and problems.

    Think of the druid staff nerf and remember stuff like this...

    "It's that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority." -TexZero

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/idea-wvw-only-movement-skills

  • @SloRules.3560 said:
    Please nerf rezing skills, like transfusion and merciful intervention in WvW. With proposed changes, damage seems to be nerfed across the board and even now it's hard to finish people if enemy stacks 5 blood necros. And merciful intervention can insta rez with only 1 guard using it, it even scales of of modifiers.

    nerf mercy runes as well while you're at it

    Maguuma

    VR

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks,

    The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team are working together on an upcoming skill split release. We've posted a list of our first draft of proposed changes. We'd love your feedback. Please try to keep the feedback to the original post so that we can view the feedback in one place!

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release

    I appreciate that the team is looking to make some changes between pve and wvw/spvp.

    Some feedback from a player who use to be a competitive support role player before esports and twitch were a thing...

    Ranger-
    The changes to ranger Celestial Avatar are killing the team healing aspect of this build. With HoT the team decided to add more playable roles, yet, changes keep being made to that discourage playing said role. You built Druid to be a healer for fast paced and hard hitting combat, yet you gate our ability to heal for A WHOPPING 20 seconds... Druid form is already easy to shut down through hard control skills (knock backs, interrupts, daze, immob) and poison debuffs all heals by 33%... If you are attempting to cater to those duelers, who mostly run around with zerker builds that have zero toughness, then you are making a realy bad mistake. It's awful for the team to put any suppost player in a position where they have to appoligize to their team because they were locked out of their main heals due to timers. (like I have had to do). This 20s is not a good design when there are tons of counters to the build. Staff is not a quality healing weapon either to rely on either.

    Druid staff auto is already horrible damage and low heals, yet it needs to be reduced why? When I'm running around in wvw and getting blasted for thousands of damage staff auto doesn't even compare... Staff 2 is useless in wvw. Staff 3 is great utility. Staff 4 misses all those moving targets. Staff 5 is pretty ineffective compared to a ton of skills I can bring up... Overall it's a low quality weapon design and that's all the team can come up with? Meanwhile I'm destroying things on my staff Daredevil and able to spamming skill 5 for 10k bursts multiple times... but Ranger staff auto is problematic? I got wrecked on my necro in full trailblazer in like 3 seconds by a Mesmer burst out of stealth for 24k, but druid staff auto?

    Here are some suggestions for Druid...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9803/druid-changes#latest

    Necro-

    Suffers from the least amount of build diversity for wvw and spvp. Poorest mobility. Slowest overall skill casting speeds. Poor utility and defensive skills comparatively. Worst performing power builds and worst melee weapons. It's basically go condi or go home. I appreciate some cooldown reductions, but you are missing the big issues that were mentioned above.

    Please don't take anything I've said as rude, but the team has remained in the spread sheet trap of "change a few numbers" balancing, while not addressing the real balance issues and problems.

    Think of the druid staff nerf and remember stuff like this...

    This. Right on the money.

    ~ Kovu

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm happy these changes are being considered. Overall it looks good to me, can't wait to see what the final list will look like.

    Do you guys have an estimated date for when this will be implemented by any chance?

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Pfft. You can totally do marauder power reaper...y'know...you just won't do condi damage AND support the group at the same time. Wait? Scourge does both? Imma go scourge then.

    RISE guild best guild super RPers trash blob guild [RISE] always dies on inc masters of the Die On Inc technique where Prince Jarvan just died.

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Vermillion.4061Vermillion.4061 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:
    Pfft. You can totally do marauder power reaper...y'know...you just won't do condi damage AND support the group at the same time. Wait? Scourge does both? Imma go scourge then.

    Zerk Scourge already does more than what reaper does for a group.

    Supports with Condi cleanses/Barrier while doing good damage from range/melee with the train.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @Vermillion.4061 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:
    Pfft. You can totally do marauder power reaper...y'know...you just won't do condi damage AND support the group at the same time. Wait? Scourge does both? Imma go scourge then.

    Zerk Scourge already does more than what reaper does for a group.

    Supports with Condi cleanses/Barrier while doing good damage from range/melee with the train.

    Exactly. If they really wanted the scourge class to be "support" then make it focus that instead of being able to dps+support+tank...and aoe spam...

    Not saying Scourge is good for 1v1s btw. D:

    Regardless. Such suggestions are for the thread in Spvp forums.

    RISE guild best guild super RPers trash blob guild [RISE] always dies on inc masters of the Die On Inc technique where Prince Jarvan just died.

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Lets go boys, time to bring melee tempests, boonshare chronos, melee revs back. Add some inventions holosmiths and scourges there for ton of clenase. Weavers for some damage.
    MELEE META IS BACK! YEAH!
    Tempests AoE stunbreaking, melee revs AoE stunbreaking, guardians AoE stunbreaking, what are these bubbles, why are they not stopping them?

    Check build spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o7RWNG7FgtS5nJfmUV8Uf2ZZ8Xde2koOtSTpr-GZU6E/edit?usp=sharing if you want good builds for these.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/scout/roamer
    Piken link/alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • @Threather.9354 said:
    Lets go boys, time to bring melee tempests, boonshare chronos, melee revs back. Add some inventions holosmiths and scourges there for ton of clenase. Weavers for some damage.
    MELEE META IS BACK! YEAH!
    Tempests AoE stunbreaking, melee revs AoE stunbreaking, guardians AoE stunbreaking, what are these bubbles, why are they not stopping them?

    Check build spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o7RWNG7FgtS5nJfmUV8Uf2ZZ8Xde2koOtSTpr-GZU6E/edit?usp=sharing if you want good builds for these.

    :+1: Intriguing. Maybe not 3 months worth of intrigue but good for a bit of fun.

  • Hey folks,

    Friendly reminder: Please share all your feedback on the thread that Ben linked. They're not going to be culling a bunch of threads, but will be focusing on that one. So please let the team benefit from your input by posting here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release

    Thanks.

    Gaile Gray
    Communications Manager: ArenaNet
    Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

  • If you do this to Hammer Revs, I just don't understand why you can't just leave them maybe be for once? I can still pretty much get one shot my Mesmers but the DMG I do with my Hammer is still too much? If I just Hammer for my Rev seeing how this is the only class I play/want to play/enjoy playing to roam with. I from the start and already gimping myself cause of how slow this weapon is and what is offers. So now low and behold because it does slightly good in Zergs in WvW all of a sudden is needs to be toned down a bit. I think this change for Revs would be a turning point that a lot of people don't want to see. I am just distraught at the thought of this even happening.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    @Kenshu.3825 said:
    If you do this to Hammer Revs, I just don't understand why you can't just leave them maybe be for once? I can still pretty much get one shot my Mesmers but the DMG I do with my Hammer is still too much? If I just Hammer for my Rev seeing how this is the only class I play/want to play/enjoy playing to roam with. I from the start and already gimping myself cause of how slow this weapon is and what is offers. So now low and behold because it does slightly good in Zergs in WvW all of a sudden is needs to be toned down a bit. I think this change for Revs would be a turning point that a lot of people don't want to see. I am just distraught at the thought of this even happening.

    its just hammer 2, your hammer 3, 5 and 1 will still do plenty of damage. Hammer 2 was just too easy and fast to land compared to these skills.

    But as the anet dev said, post your complaint on the actual thread made for it.

    At least they buffed mallyx and dwarf, maybe you can make something out of those.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/scout/roamer
    Piken link/alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • Please reconsider the balance changes to Druid and have them only affected in PVP. The Druid in WvW is already underpowered in group settings as it stands today, and is why there are hardly any that play... let alone don’t get kicked from a squad.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So still nothing about the broken state of stealth?

    BG

  • @X T D.6458 said:
    So still nothing about the broken state of stealth?

    Can you state your suggestion in the form of skills or traits that should be split between pvp and wvw? That seems to be the main thing atm.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065
    The way I see it right now,
    Sword thief will become predominant after the changes. And that hit and run build is already cancerous AF. I love the proposed changes but you gotta think about the builds you’re leaving unscathed.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People just need to look at the changes in a different way...
    People complained about mesmers, so anet's solution is to power up thieves so they can go back to heartseeker spamming to cull their numbers.
    People complained about resistance to immobilize was terrible, so they thought nerfing Revenants who provide a great deal of resistance, so less players will play them, was the best way to solve that problem.
    People complained about the new shade aoe light show, so they nerfed scourges so that less players play them thus less strobe light aoe fields all around.
    People complained about the warriors bubbles, well what better way to help lessen it's usage by powering up their other elite skill.

    So just sit back and relax, have a kit kat or a snickers, depending on the class you play.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    Maguuma: Free ppt, come and get it!

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks,

    The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team are working together on an upcoming skill split release. We've posted a list of our first draft of proposed changes. We'd love your feedback. Please try to keep the feedback to the original post so that we can view the feedback in one place!

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release

    It is closed and we cant give you feed back on your try of un spliting skills and its not going well. Please keep them split and stop un spliting.

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