Rant toward pug players on VG.

Dear pugs. On VG. You CAN'T do no-greens strategy even on 250+ li groups, only statics can do that. Stop wasting my time. I'm not here to do practice runs, I actually want to kill VG.Solution: do good old 4-men greens, it's slower but we can actually kill VG with it.

@Susy.7529 said:Dear pugs. On VG. You CAN'T do no-greens strategy even on 250+ li groups, only statics can do that. Stop wasting my time. I'm not here to do practice runs, I actually want to kill VG.Solution: do good old 4-men greens, it's slower but we can actually kill VG with it.

Today I did 50li pug overheal on first try without anyone getting ported/downed. It can be done (and actualy is less chaotic then green strategy since players sometimes miss greens which i unexpected and not that easy to outheal)

Not really, i've done overheal on greens with 30-50% pugs on my group.Why don't you ask at the beginning? "Hey you going to do greens, or try to overheal?" If you don't like the answer just excuse yourself and leave the party.

Good for you, today I had 4 VG runs (2x 150+, 1x 200+ and 1x 250+) and every single one of them failed for that mechanic, it can't simply be bad luck...previous weeks, with old 4-men greens strat we always won 1st or 2nd try.

I'm pretty sure none of players who added to your experience will ever read your thread.

Don't know. The last VGs without any requirements went fairly well and outhealing worked. It's luck and LI/KPs aren't realiable skill-indicators anyway.

This is funny for me. I remember one day raiding with my static, we were at VG... We decided to do greens because we actually like the mechanic (we all have way more than 250li). So my comm places an LFG and a very famous guy from a veeery famous hardcore raiding guild joins... My comm asks him to go greens. Ready check. All ready.

And suddenly that super famous guy starts complaining and insulting like crazy, being rude to all my static. Is this really a 250li group? Comm do you even have 250? Greens are noob strategy blablabla.

So we had to kick him. In the end we didn't do the boss because we were all mad and decided to raid off and go have some rest. Apparently if you do greens you're a filthy noob who cheats LIs.

I dont know why it would be a pug problem. This basically can be carried by a single harrier druid. no need for static

i have more failure than success with no green. sometime, it goes super smooth but most of the time its wipe. I agree, VG no green is not PUG friendly.

@Susy.7529 said:Dear pugs. On VG. You CAN'T do no-greens strategy even on 250+ li groups, only statics can do that. Stop wasting my time. I'm not here to do practice runs, I actually want to kill VG.Solution: do good old 4-men greens, it's slower but we can actually kill VG with it.

I've been playing WoW instead of GW2 for the last few months, but how do you even do no-greens now that you can't share distortion? Do you just run like 6 mesmers, defensive statted druid, and warriors/necromancers for their high hp pool?

@Eponet.4829 said:

@"Susy.7529" said:Dear pugs. On VG. You CAN'T do no-greens strategy even on 250+ li groups, only statics can do that. Stop wasting my time. I'm not here to do practice runs, I actually want to kill VG.Solution: do good old 4-men greens, it's slower but we can actually kill VG with it.

A lot of people are going to claim it's pretty easy like some already have in this thread, but it's not because team does need some synergy. It's a matter of timing your heals and getting as much aegis as possible so that you can heal through it as soon as it hits. Another thing would be overhealing constantly. I suspect the people claiming this is easy are only barely passing by a "pug" criteria (i.e they are likely raiding with people they are used to play with, by raiding in the same time frame as usual, etc.), or did not attempt this properly after the changes to Druid healing, or are just saving face saying it's easy. Your DPS players might have to pop their own heals in pugs which is already a loss from optimal, and if anyone doesn't do it, fails CC, fails to get Seekers away, or get a blue circle teleport, the whole thing goes boom since the next green is gonna be in as soon as you recover from the resulting mess. Doing greens is easier for people learning because if a single person misses the circle there is still time to recover (and ideally you'd have backups ready), and is harder for the experienced because for some reason they apparently would rather have most bosses be a damage golem.

To be honest, this whole counting on Heals/Chronos thing is stale as kitten and was an unplanned mess Anet is taking too long to fix. They are taking so long in fact, that people now actively defend that we should remain able to skip mechanics by overhealing or overdamaging (e.g Gorseval updrafts). These mechanics are challenging when enforced, and present what players actually asked for (a challenge!), whereas I think most people do not truly want challenge since they celebrate and defend the fact that they are able to entirely ignore said mechanics. In the (rare) good raid fights such as Matthias and Dhuum, players are held individually accountable for their mistakes and the team also has to pay for it, with no chance for most of the squad to ignore everything in favor of being top benchmarks, even if you want to bring like 3 healers to the fight. The result? People won't even run training pugs for these encounters, and everyone is stuck doing "the easiest path" in VG, Gorse or w4 bosses.

Imo it depends, if the pugs in squad have experience with doing VG with no players standing on greens. It's a different enviroment for players new to the strategy although it's the same encounter. Priority for green circles shifted to seekers, CC breakbar and blue circles that need to be handled accordingly as said. Practice.

This is why we're fighting for an easy mode, where more casually-minded players can pug and complete the content successfully without such conflict.

@Ohoni.6057 said:This is why we're fighting for an easy mode, where more casually-minded players can pug and complete the content successfully without such conflict.

Wrong thread, there's 3 others for that sorta discourse.

I think OP is forgetting all the times pug had trouble standing in a giant green circle. At least with skipping greens all downed players are in not lit sections.

Seems safer to me to simply outheal (or even better properly time heals) at VG than to expect people to run greens without mistakes. Get two healers if you need to.I'd expect anyone at 250+ LI to be able to excute a strategy that has been so commonplace for a long time, what most of us might expect even of pugs. Well, I'd also expect them to run greens properly but that is a different story. And don't get me wrong, I run greens if people want to run greens. Seems silly to me to spend more time on arguing with random pugs than it would take to get the kill.

What it comes down to is communication. Say what you want and what you are looking - group up with like-minded people. Don't try to convert everyone to your personal beliefs.

@"maxwelgm.4315" said:A lot of people are going to claim it's pretty easy like some already have in this thread, but it's not because team does need some synergy. It's a matter of timing your heals and getting as much aegis as possible so that you can heal through it as soon as it hits.Another thing would be overhealing constantly. I suspect the people claiming this is easy are only barely passing by a "pug" criteria (i.e they are likely raiding with people they are used to play with, by raiding in the same time frame as usual, etc.), or did not attempt this properly after the changes to Druid healing, or are just saving face saying it's easy.

It is very easy and you don't need any single aegis because it won't help you against the damage impact from the green explosion. All you need is one or two competent healers that know when to burst heal, a competent tank (you need him with the other tactic as well) and players not getting ported by blues which shouldn't happen if they are in max melee range, watch out and have the ingame sound running if it's not manageable for them otherwise (you can hear the blue ports "building up").The nerf to druid didn't change anything for this tactic unless your druids weren't already really skilled before.

fails CC,Should never happen in experienced groups

fails to get Seekers awayDruid job (glyph of tides, entangle) and chrono (focus 4) as well. Chronos not being able or not willing to swap weapons are like those 4k dps players, especially the off-chronos.

or get a blue circle teleportAs written above: Must - Not - Hapen!

Doing greens is easier for people learning because if a single person misses the circle there is still time to recover (and ideally you'd have backups ready), and is harder for the experienced because for some reason they apparently would rather have most bosses be a damage golem.

The discussion is not about people learning it's about experienced players. And if you are not able to execute both tactics you cannot call yourself an experienced raider. Nothing but the truth...Also, your logic is failing here. If a single person misses the circle the whole group is receiving the full damage. So there is nothing different from nobody running greens. If you can recover from one player failing to go greens you're automatically able to recover from nobody running them because in this tactic everybody is stacked and far better in range to ress than in the other tactic where it is 4 (3 + 1 anywhere around or worse) vs. hopefully 6 at the boss.

Imho the overheal tactic is the better one. I've been in so many VG pug groups and even with markers over their head (you can often see that in low LI pugs) people forget going to greens and run tunnel vision mode leading to many fail attempts. Man, I've experienced groups with 5 ppl on greens and they still couldn't manage this.

@"Vinceman.4572" said:It is very easy and you don't need any single aegis because it won't help you against the damage impact from the green explosion. All you need is one or two competent healers that know when to burst heal, a competent tank (you need him with the other tactic as well) and players not getting ported by blues which shouldn't happen if they are in max melee range, watch out and have the ingame sound running if it's not manageable for them otherwise (you can hear the blue ports "building up").The nerf to druid didn't change anything for this tactic unless your druids weren't already really skilled before.

You say it is very easy but then you say that you need competent this and that with tank, druid and players staying on max melee range and whatever else. So easy i guess.Its so easy to save the world from North Korea too. Even Trump did it. :)

@Susy.7529 said:Good for you, today I had 4 VG runs (2x 150+, 1x 200+ and 1x 250+) and every single one of them failed for that mechanic, it can't simply be bad luck...previous weeks, with old 4-men greens strat we always won 1st or 2nd try.They are probably still running the old 2x GotL druid setup. Which means group heal just went down a lot.

Although i agree that the overheal strategy is far more risky for new players, because new raid players just can't stack. On the other hand, most pugs aren't that new at all.

@thrag.9740 said:I think OP is forgetting all the times pug had trouble standing in a giant green circle. At least with skipping greens all downed players are in not lit sections.

Of course they are. The downed players are usually those that got teleported/didn't stack. Which means that with weaker group you start shedding players left and right as soon as you hit 3rd phase and you start running after the boss instead of standing still.

@thrag.9740 said:I think OP is forgetting all the times pug had trouble standing in a giant green circle. At least with skipping greens all downed players are in not lit sections.

With my pug experience I can 100% say that mistakes with overheal vs mistakes with standing in greens are in a 4:1 ratio...

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@thrag.9740 said:I think OP is forgetting all the times pug had trouble standing in a giant green circle. At least with skipping greens all downed players are in not lit sections.

+1

Overheal with pugs is messy and risky and it always almost fails, from my experience.

It depends. Overheal put preasure on tank and healers. Greens put preasure on players responsible for greens. If you play dps its more safe to do greens since you dont know your healers/tank skill but you know your own. On the other hand if you play tank and can distort every/most of the greens, time your well of eternity to heal after explosion and not get ported then overheal is better since you dont need to count on 4 green players.

PuGs still do greens? What year is this?

@Imperadordf.2687 said:PuGs still do greens? What year is this?

¿???

@Imperadordf.2687 said:PuGs still do greens? What year is this?

Well pugs sometimes wants kiter for cairn. Also met a dps firebrand with toughness > 2390 on vg....

To your sexond question: 2018