New patch... PLEASE GOD — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New patch... PLEASE GOD

aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 20, 2018 in Revenant

So I really hope revenant has some good looking buffs coming our way if not I’m gonna be very upset and I believe, and I’m speaking for all the revenant mains out there, I believe we are all hanging by a thread with this class. Let me put it in the simplest form. Anet, we love revenant we love how it was designed we love how we can play gw1 characters it’s a very nostalgic character/profession and that’s what we love.. but YOU(anet) are destroying it by making senseless nerfs to the traits, energy, skills, and mechanics. Please all of us mains are begging for something good to happen next patch. I seriously believe this is the last straw for us all we are all tired of the “bs” if you will. Let’s make rev FUN again and most important VIABLE again!

I would like to add, my sincere apologies, this is NOT a question I must have miss clicked, SORRY!

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Answers

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, we definitely need pve buffs to make up for being bottom feeder, due to anet refusing to skilsplit and hampering us with severe nefs due to pvp/wvw

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Issue with some revent mechanic is that gamemodes wont support it's own way to play or liek skills work.

    Ventari for example, in a game where mobility and aoe+dps are king, it is more than obvious ventari wont work, the right way to design Ventari was similiar to what a Bonding monk casted and holded its bonds on allies.

  • If anything, they should at least look at the rev elite spec weapons. Renegade Shortbow needs to not leave us defenseless verse other players, and Herald shield needs to be useful outside of one specific raid. I am hopeful though. Rev has been recieving micro buffs through out these patches. Slooowly but surely, we are becoming viable without the use of gimmicks :P

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2018

    @Draygorn.7012 said:
    If anything, they should at least look at the rev elite spec weapons. Renegade Shortbow needs to not leave us defenseless verse other players, and Herald shield needs to be useful outside of one specific raid. I am hopeful though. Rev has been recieving micro buffs through out these patches. Slooowly but surely, we are becoming viable without the use of gimmicks :P

    Shield being truly useful (in PvE) outside of Healing Herald is probably too much to hope for honestly. Most defensive weapons in PvE just aren't good since they serve no real purpose outside of healing/tank builds since they hinder DPS builds overall.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    Shield buff for wvw would be sick

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Draygorn.7012 said:
    If anything, they should at least look at the rev elite spec weapons. Renegade Shortbow needs to not leave us defenseless verse other players, and Herald shield needs to be useful outside of one specific raid. I am hopeful though. Rev has been recieving micro buffs through out these patches. Slooowly but surely, we are becoming viable without the use of gimmicks :P

    Shield being truly useful (in PvE) outside of Healing Herald is probably too much to hope for honestly. Most defensive weapons in PvE just aren't good since they serve no real purpose outside of healing/tank builds since they hinder DPS builds overall.

    I think people would settle for Shield at least being made useful in PvP again and/or WvW (where it has always been terrible). Just SOMETHING besides handkiting on Deimos.

    As for PvE, a lot of classes' defensive weapons are at least USEFUL to varying degrees... Like Shield/Focus on Chrono. Or a War carrying cc for his lacking group by popping a shield. Even shield on Holo can help carry cc at a pretty minimal dps loss (if they were already playing sword variant). I'll give you guardian and ele here, but at least focus and shield for them are realistic choices in PvP/WvW, and not just a troll-faced deathtrap like Herald's shield is.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I rather take the revamp. I want the class revamped. It's so flawed in design that we never can get new unique mechanic with ES like other classes can.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Draygorn.7012 said:
    If anything, they should at least look at the rev elite spec weapons. Renegade Shortbow needs to not leave us defenseless verse other players, and Herald shield needs to be useful outside of one specific raid. I am hopeful though. Rev has been recieving micro buffs through out these patches. Slooowly but surely, we are becoming viable without the use of gimmicks :P

    Shield being truly useful (in PvE) outside of Healing Herald is probably too much to hope for honestly. Most defensive weapons in PvE just aren't good since they serve no real purpose outside of healing/tank builds since they hinder DPS builds overall.

    Add damage and CC (knock down or back)to Shield 4.
    Shield 5 gets AoE support effect added to it to heal nearby allies or stun break nearby allies or something like that while reflecting ranged attacks. I could rock with that.

  • Chungo.3169Chungo.3169 Member ✭✭

    It would be nice if they did a complete review of rev as they have done with hypnotist, although I see it difficult, the most important thing right now is to repair errors, they are many and we have been dealing with them for some time, reporting and commenting them without getting any answer (at least in the messages that I have read in the forum)
    In my humble opinion, with that anet repair the errors in the next patch I will stay a little quieter :)

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Eh, you don't speak for me. I'm quite enjoying rev the last few months.

    Same...! Too many people want Revenant to be the same as warrior or guardian, when they could easily just go play those classes instead--it doesn't make sense to me. :sleepy:

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    revs just needs power damage bought up to par.

  • @narcx.3570 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Draygorn.7012 said:
    If anything, they should at least look at the rev elite spec weapons. Renegade Shortbow needs to not leave us defenseless verse other players, and Herald shield needs to be useful outside of one specific raid. I am hopeful though. Rev has been recieving micro buffs through out these patches. Slooowly but surely, we are becoming viable without the use of gimmicks :P

    Shield being truly useful (in PvE) outside of Healing Herald is probably too much to hope for honestly. Most defensive weapons in PvE just aren't good since they serve no real purpose outside of healing/tank builds since they hinder DPS builds overall.

    I think people would settle for Shield at least being made useful in PvP again and/or WvW (where it has always been terrible). Just SOMETHING besides handkiting on Deimos.

    As for PvE, a lot of classes' defensive weapons are at least USEFUL to varying degrees... Like Shield/Focus on Chrono. Or a War carrying cc for his lacking group by popping a shield. Even shield on Holo can help carry cc at a pretty minimal dps loss (if they were already playing sword variant). I'll give you guardian and ele here, but at least focus and shield for them are realistic choices in PvP/WvW, and not just a troll-faced deathtrap like Herald's shield is.

    Focus on Chrono doesn't really count as a defensive weapon overall. Its more of a damage + utility weapon. Focus Warden Phantasm is strong enough that it's part of the 32k Chronomancer Power DPS rotation, for example. It just happens to be taken by support chronos since the utility is great. You're right about engi and war, they do have defensive weapon options that give them access to greater CC without completely neutering their DPS. And ofc shield Chrono will always be great. I'm glad you mentioned guardian and ele as well with focus and shield as they're definitely defensive oriented weapons that aren't generally particularly useful in PvE outside of a healing build or maybe some niche build. I'd also add Guardian's mace and staff to that list, Warrior's warhorn, Tempest's warhorn, Mesmer's staff (though it's a weird mix of utility and small damage) and I'd even add Druid's staff, too, since it's also not useful for PvE outside of its healing build. You're right though, that some of the above weapons are pretty useful in pvp, though my post was primarily geared towards PvE. it's also worth mentioning that shield was the go to Herald offhand for nearly 2 years in pvp, which I'll talk about in a bit.

    I think it would be awesome if Shield gained additional uses for sure, but as mentioned through the above list, it's really a healing/tanking designed weapon and it doesn't fit on really any builds that aren't healing/tanking in pve (just like the above weapons). Even if it had 1 or 2 CCs, gave alacrity, or did something else, I don't think we'd ever see it as part of a Herald DPS rotation. Offhand Sword is too integral to getting higher DPS numbers now and Staff has that amazing 750 breakbar damage Surge of the Mists which means, even with the massive 10s DPS loss, it's probably always going to be better than shield for CC. I'm not trying to be a pessimist or anything, this is just the reality of most of the defensive weapons in the game for PvE. I would be incredibly shocked if it ever got a rework that made it a good viable choice on Power or Condi Herald (since it's already a go to pick for Healing Herald).

    As for pvp, I think shield's lack of usage is partially due to solo/duo queue and also the rework of sword. While I think offhand axe has been a much better solo queue option than shield for a long time, organized groups were still using Power Herald with Shield all the way up until PoF launched. Offhand sword post rework I think edges both axe and shield out for solo queue, but shield might still be good for group play environments, which is why I think caution would be needed when buffing it so that OH Sword and Axe don't get completely edged out again like they were before. Overall, I wouldn't mind a buff on shield for pvp/wvw tho, and I think it definitely needs one if it wants to compete as a solid option against OH Sword.

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    Add damage and CC (knock down or back) to Shield 4.
    Shield 5 gets AoE support effect added to it to heal nearby allies or stun break nearby allies or something like that while reflecting ranged attacks. I could rock with that.

    The suggestions overall aren't bad and would definitely give shield more strength, however, as I mentioned above in my reply to Narcx, shield would still be only picked in PvE in Healing Herald builds since Shield competes with both offhand sword and staff and the latter does much better CC than presumably shield could. Also as mentioned this isn't a unique issue for Herald shield, but is an issue that nearly all defensive weapons in the game have to deal with (for PvE) when they're not used in some sort of Healer/Tank role.

    @Chungo.3169 said:
    It would be nice if they did a complete review of rev as they have done with hypnotist, although I see it difficult, the most important thing right now is to repair errors, they are many and we have been dealing with them for some time, reporting and commenting them without getting any answer (at least in the messages that I have read in the forum)
    In my humble opinion, with that anet repair the errors in the next patch I will stay a little quieter :)

    I would be careful what you wish for with a complete review or rework of revenant. Mesmer turned out great simply because they took its class mechanic and made it completely broken OP during said rework. The Deadeye rework on the otherhand has been a mess, didn't really improve the class at all, and completely changed the gameplay in someways. Some people like the new Deadeye, but a lot of people hate it, and the rework didn't fix its main issues. A full revenant rework would not necessarily solve "rev's issues" and just run the risk of angering existing revenant players who have been playing it for the past 2.75 years. There are a lot of fixes they could do for Rev that wouldn't require them to rework the class and help the existing playstyles. Revenant's playstyle isn't for everyone; not everyone needs to love its mechanics, and that's okay.

    You mention bugs, though, and that is definitely a huge problem. Revenant has at least 4 major bugs I can think of off the top of my head right now that absolutely need to get fixed, and that should be a priority for the balance team.

  • @narcx.3570 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Eh, you don't speak for me. I'm quite enjoying rev the last few months.

    Same...! Too many people want Revenant to be the same as warrior or guardian, when they could easily just go play those classes instead--it doesn't make sense to me. :sleepy:

    Absolutely agree with this sentiment

  • MachineManXX.9746MachineManXX.9746 Member ✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    I rather take the revamp. I want the class revamped. It's so flawed in design that we never can get new unique mechanic with ES like other classes can.

    What is "so flawed in design" about Rev? It's a great class to play. Sure it could use some adjustments, but a complete revamp? Not seeing it.

  • XxsdgxX.8109XxsdgxX.8109 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2018

    Uh no it does not need a revamp, please stop with that. Complete waste of dev's time.
    It only needs few numerical tweaks, power damage buffs for PvE (Mostly for Glint's legend maybe even staff) and more survivability against conditions on PvP (Like increasing Cleansing Channel from 1 to 2 conditions removed, Shield 5 removing 1 with each pulse, etc)

    I agree on something though, it received too many nerfs from PvP (so nerfs for all gamemodes) before they started splitting skills.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    We could all easily play guardian and warrior but the thing if it is guardian and warrior do everything better that’s the problem rev is under power it’s not fair to be at the lower end of the stick and then not be able to compete in special events because my class because why not just take a Warrior or guardian

  • Chungo.3169Chungo.3169 Member ✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Draygorn.7012 said:
    If anything, they should at least look at the rev elite spec weapons. Renegade Shortbow needs to not leave us defenseless verse other players, and Herald shield needs to be useful outside of one specific raid. I am hopeful though. Rev has been recieving micro buffs through out these patches. Slooowly but surely, we are becoming viable without the use of gimmicks :P

    Shield being truly useful (in PvE) outside of Healing Herald is probably too much to hope for honestly. Most defensive weapons in PvE just aren't good since they serve no real purpose outside of healing/tank builds since they hinder DPS builds overall.

    I think people would settle for Shield at least being made useful in PvP again and/or WvW (where it has always been terrible). Just SOMETHING besides handkiting on Deimos.

    As for PvE, a lot of classes' defensive weapons are at least USEFUL to varying degrees... Like Shield/Focus on Chrono. Or a War carrying cc for his lacking group by popping a shield. Even shield on Holo can help carry cc at a pretty minimal dps loss (if they were already playing sword variant). I'll give you guardian and ele here, but at least focus and shield for them are realistic choices in PvP/WvW, and not just a troll-faced deathtrap like Herald's shield is.

    Focus on Chrono doesn't really count as a defensive weapon overall. Its more of a damage + utility weapon. Focus Warden Phantasm is strong enough that it's part of the 32k Chronomancer Power DPS rotation, for example. It just happens to be taken by support chronos since the utility is great. You're right about engi and war, they do have defensive weapon options that give them access to greater CC without completely neutering their DPS. And ofc shield Chrono will always be great. I'm glad you mentioned guardian and ele as well with focus and shield as they're definitely defensive oriented weapons that aren't generally particularly useful in PvE outside of a healing build or maybe some niche build. I'd also add Guardian's mace and staff to that list, Warrior's warhorn, Tempest's warhorn, Mesmer's staff (though it's a weird mix of utility and small damage) and I'd even add Druid's staff, too, since it's also not useful for PvE outside of its healing build. You're right though, that some of the above weapons are pretty useful in pvp, though my post was primarily geared towards PvE. it's also worth mentioning that shield was the go to Herald offhand for nearly 2 years in pvp, which I'll talk about in a bit.

    I think it would be awesome if Shield gained additional uses for sure, but as mentioned through the above list, it's really a healing/tanking designed weapon and it doesn't fit on really any builds that aren't healing/tanking in pve (just like the above weapons). Even if it had 1 or 2 CCs, gave alacrity, or did something else, I don't think we'd ever see it as part of a Herald DPS rotation. Offhand Sword is too integral to getting higher DPS numbers now and Staff has that amazing 750 breakbar damage Surge of the Mists which means, even with the massive 10s DPS loss, it's probably always going to be better than shield for CC. I'm not trying to be a pessimist or anything, this is just the reality of most of the defensive weapons in the game for PvE. I would be incredibly shocked if it ever got a rework that made it a good viable choice on Power or Condi Herald (since it's already a go to pick for Healing Herald).

    As for pvp, I think shield's lack of usage is partially due to solo/duo queue and also the rework of sword. While I think offhand axe has been a much better solo queue option than shield for a long time, organized groups were still using Power Herald with Shield all the way up until PoF launched. Offhand sword post rework I think edges both axe and shield out for solo queue, but shield might still be good for group play environments, which is why I think caution would be needed when buffing it so that OH Sword and Axe don't get completely edged out again like they were before. Overall, I wouldn't mind a buff on shield for pvp/wvw tho, and I think it definitely needs one if it wants to compete as a solid option against OH Sword.

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    Add damage and CC (knock down or back) to Shield 4.
    Shield 5 gets AoE support effect added to it to heal nearby allies or stun break nearby allies or something like that while reflecting ranged attacks. I could rock with that.

    The suggestions overall aren't bad and would definitely give shield more strength, however, as I mentioned above in my reply to Narcx, shield would still be only picked in PvE in Healing Herald builds since Shield competes with both offhand sword and staff and the latter does much better CC than presumably shield could. Also as mentioned this isn't a unique issue for Herald shield, but is an issue that nearly all defensive weapons in the game have to deal with (for PvE) when they're not used in some sort of Healer/Tank role.

    @Chungo.3169 said:
    It would be nice if they did a complete review of rev as they have done with hypnotist, although I see it difficult, the most important thing right now is to repair errors, they are many and we have been dealing with them for some time, reporting and commenting them without getting any answer (at least in the messages that I have read in the forum)
    In my humble opinion, with that anet repair the errors in the next patch I will stay a little quieter :)

    I would be careful what you wish for with a complete review or rework of revenant. Mesmer turned out great simply because they took its class mechanic and made it completely broken OP during said rework. The Deadeye rework on the otherhand has been a mess, didn't really improve the class at all, and completely changed the gameplay in someways. Some people like the new Deadeye, but a lot of people hate it, and the rework didn't fix its main issues. A full revenant rework would not necessarily solve "rev's issues" and just run the risk of angering existing revenant players who have been playing it for the past 2.75 years. There are a lot of fixes they could do for Rev that wouldn't require them to rework the class and help the existing playstyles. Revenant's playstyle isn't for everyone; not everyone needs to love its mechanics, and that's okay.

    You mention bugs, though, and that is definitely a huge problem. Revenant has at least 4 major bugs I can think of off the top of my head right now that absolutely need to get fixed, and that should be a priority for the balance team.

    Although I agree that it does not need a complete revision (I only play rev for 3 years), it is true that with several things that changed in the nerfs change their style of play a bit, although with the same problem, and that is that they arise More errors in the class every few patches and it really is what bothers me the most. It is to ask them please devs for the love of God, to repair the mistakes that take months (some years) in the next update if it is not too much to ask.

  • Game of Bones.8975Game of Bones.8975 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They revamp every class each time they roll out a new elite specialization.

    "That's what" -- She

  • Avador.8934Avador.8934 Member ✭✭✭

    Design-wise, Rev is fine. But it needs tweaks. A lot of tweaks.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Eh, you don't speak for me. I'm quite enjoying rev the last few months.

    Same...! Too many people want Revenant to be the same as warrior or guardian, when they could easily just go play those classes instead--it doesn't make sense to me. :sleepy:

    Absolutely agree with this sentiment

    Some others (me) just almost stopped playing because I don't want to return to Guardian or Warrior but at the same time the current Rev is too different from the one at HoT release; like a more stiff, slower and channeled version of the old one.

  • @Buran.3796 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Eh, you don't speak for me. I'm quite enjoying rev the last few months.

    Same...! Too many people want Revenant to be the same as warrior or guardian, when they could easily just go play those classes instead--it doesn't make sense to me. :sleepy:

    Absolutely agree with this sentiment

    Some others (me) just almost stopped playing because I don't want to return to Guardian or Warrior but at the same time the current Rev is too different from the one at HoT release; like a more stiff, slower and channeled version of the old one.

    This statement doesn't make sense to me really (that's not a bad thing though). Revenant has received a lot of nerfs and they're certainly not busted OP like they were for nearly 2 years, but Power Herald largely plays the same as it always has with the main differences being how much it can dodge, how much it can heal, and ofc the equilibrium and impossible odds changes. How in your opinion is the gameplay significantly different now? Is it just the damage/sustain output? How do you feel it could be changed without making it OP like it was for much of HoT?

    I'm genuinely curious about the above questions btw. I know that there are definitely people in your camp where the current rev doesn't appeal to them, but used to, so I'm interested in that perspective. For me personally, I don't feel the gameplay is vastly different for Power, so its hard for me to intuitively understand your positions. Additionally, I think a lot of us, like the others quoted, have a genuine desire to preserve the current/past playstyles and don't want to add 4 attunements/energy gain/no weapon energy/etc. and so the guardian/warrior/elementalist comments are more geared towards people that want the class to be more like those classes and aren't aimed at people (like you) that love the original design and want that to be kept.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Eh, you don't speak for me. I'm quite enjoying rev the last few months.

    Same...! Too many people want Revenant to be the same as warrior or guardian, when they could easily just go play those classes instead--it doesn't make sense to me. :sleepy:

    Absolutely agree with this sentiment

    Some others (me) just almost stopped playing because I don't want to return to Guardian or Warrior but at the same time the current Rev is too different from the one at HoT release; like a more stiff, slower and channeled version of the old one.

    The thing is, that's so far from the truth...
    The new max dps Revenant rotation in PvE doesn't even use channeled skills, lol... You just flip on EtD before legend swapping to proc Diabolic, and that's it... It also has VERY, VERY few aa's in the rotation--it's mostly all about active casts.

    And in PvP/WvW, I gotta say that rev feels more fluid and mobile than it has in a really long time, probably since the year+ old nerf to Phase Traversal's energy cost. I know you never got into the whole OH Sword change thing, but if you did, it makes everything so much more flashy... It's like having a second, shorter ranged, but instacast and less energy consuming PT... And now with quickness on PT (or on weapon swap if traited), you don't have to waste energy flipping on IO to land key skills between interrupts.

    I mean, it's certainly not as face roll as it was when it first came out... With being able to land 50k+dmg SotM's on fools in PvP and the like, but that was also super broken.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Eh, you don't speak for me. I'm quite enjoying rev the last few months.

    I am not. I primarily like condi rev, which outside of raids sucks in everything. Even there, last patch pushed it down that majority of builds on other classes out dps it, outside large boxes. Power rev after 3-4 patches still not end game PvE viable. It is mid tier in sPvP.

    To add, there is a serious lack of diversity in every game mode. SPvP you can only play power herald. PvE only condi renegade and wvw only power hammer. And what makes matter worse, the new elite, beside that it is epic fail in every game mode, it added nothing to the class in terms of viability.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2018

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    How in your opinion is the gameplay significantly different now? Is it just the damage/sustain output? How do you feel it could be changed without making it OP like it was for much of HoT?

    I'm genuinely curious about the above questions btw. I know that there are definitely people in your camp where the current rev doesn't appeal to them, but used to, so I'm interested in that perspective. For me personally, I don't feel the gameplay is vastly different for Power, so its hard for me to intuitively understand your positions. Additionally, I think a lot of us, like the others quoted, have a genuine desire to preserve the current/past playstyles and don't want to add 4 attunements/energy gain/no weapon energy/etc. and so the guardian/warrior/elementalist comments are more geared towards people that want the class to be more like those classes and aren't aimed at people (like you) that love the original design and want that to be kept.

    Old power Rev had favorable PvP matchups. Current one loses in every 1 vs 1 if both players are equally skilled. And if you're thinking about playing as a +1, then half of the roster does that role better. Mesmers, Thieves, Rangers and Holos had much better burst damage while also keeping more mobility and stronger sustain (while also having free access to stealth, cleanses and disengaging tools). Those four can also pressure enemies at range, so don't have to deal with AoE damage and cc from Scourges, Weavers and Firebrands if they don't want. So essentially they have the strong tools (damage, spikes, sustain, mobility, viable at mele and ranged combat...) whereas Rev has the weakness (lack of cleansing, energy + cd cost, no flexibility in both skills, traits and weapons...).

    @Narcx: I'll never take a trait over Swift Termination. Didn't saw a top roamer using Brutality or AA, and the changes in IO really damaged the chances of landing hammer skills in small skirmishes (I mean 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2, any one can hit targets if the screen is full of them).

    I known that some players are good enough to compete at any PvP tier with any class, but that doesn't change the fact: any time a player uses Rev in PvP his team would have more chances of success if they had a different class instead.

  • Nilson.9865Nilson.9865 Member ✭✭✭

    IO with quickness will make me happy.

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2018

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    How in your opinion is the gameplay significantly different now? Is it just the damage/sustain output? How do you feel it could be changed without making it OP like it was for much of HoT?

    I'm genuinely curious about the above questions btw. I know that there are definitely people in your camp where the current rev doesn't appeal to them, but used to, so I'm interested in that perspective. For me personally, I don't feel the gameplay is vastly different for Power, so its hard for me to intuitively understand your positions. Additionally, I think a lot of us, like the others quoted, have a genuine desire to preserve the current/past playstyles and don't want to add 4 attunements/energy gain/no weapon energy/etc. and so the guardian/warrior/elementalist comments are more geared towards people that want the class to be more like those classes and aren't aimed at people (like you) that love the original design and want that to be kept.

    Old power Rev had favorable PvP matchups. Current one loses in every 1 vs 1 if both players are equally skilled. And if you're thinking about playing as a +1, then half of the roster does that role better. Mesmers, Thieves, Rangers and Holos had much better burst damage while also keeping more mobility and stronger sustain (while also having free access to stealth, cleanses and disengaging tools). Those four can also pressure enemies at range, so don't have to deal with AoE damage and cc from Scourges, Weavers and Firebrands if they don't want. So essentially they have the strong tools (damage, spikes, sustain, mobility, viable at mele and ranged combat...) whereas Rev has the weakness (lack of cleansing, energy + cd cost, no flexibility in both skills, traits and weapons...).

    @Narcx: I'll never take a trait over Swift Termination. Didn't saw a top roamer using Brutality or AA, and the changes in IO really damaged the chances of landing hammer skills in small skirmishes (I mean 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2, any one can hit targets if the screen is full of them).

    I known that some players are good enough to compete at any PvP tier with any class, but that doesn't change the fact: any time a player uses Rev in PvP his team would have more chances of success if they had a different class instead.

    Like almost nothing here is true. Rev is at least 50\50 in a 1v1 vs any Power build. It's really quite a good 1v1er into Power builds, it simply isn't played as such in PvP for the same reason Thief isn't, because it can't really contest the node and because it's a waste of time when your strength is in your ability to +1, and in that role it's one of the best in this meta. Ridiculous to suggest Rangers and Holos have a higher burst and are better at +1, do you actually play Rev in PvP these days? A decent Rev is among the few that can +1 against a SB, Druid or Weaver and instantly delete them.

    I've never seen any decent PvP Rev pick Swift Termination, and "top roamers" tend to be top PvP players. It's not worth giving up on the sustain and extra damage from AA or the stronger burst and utility (quick Glint\Shiro elites, quick Renewing Wave) from Brutality.

    Rev is really not in a bad spot in PvP if you overlook the fact it only has one viable build. If we see some real nerfs to condi Mirage and condi Thief this week it will be in an even better spot, like top tier. There are more and more Revs being played in PvP, including in the mAT's by top players like yesterday. If you grew frustrated with it in PvP, now is a great time to give it another shot.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    Like almost nothing here is true. Rev is at least 50\50 in a 1v1 vs any Power build. It's really quite a good 1v1er into Power builds, it simply isn't played as such in PvP for the same reason Thief isn't, because it can't really contest the node and because it's a waste of time when your strength is in your ability to +1, and in that role it's one of the best in this meta. Ridiculous to suggest Rangers and Holos have a higher burst and are better at +1, do you actually play Rev in PvP these days? A decent Rev is among the few that can +1 against a SB, Druid or Weaver and instantly delete them.

    I've never seen any decent PvP Rev pick Swift Termination, and "top roamers" tend to be top PvP players. It's not worth giving up on the sustain and extra damage from AA or the stronger burst and utility (quick Glint\Shiro elites, quick Renewing Wave) from Brutality.

    That last paragraph is so weird... Tubby Two Ton (Porcelain Papi, which posted a vid just a week ago in this same forum) uses Swift Termination, and He is (no doubt) amongst the three best Rev players in the game, and is far from being the only one (Justine uses also the trait while roaming). I mean: you have half of the power thieves using Scholar runes for the +10% damage while at 90%+ HP and as a Rev you will dimiss the use of a perk which increases you damage a 20% agaisnt weakened foes (which in a +1 role probably should be your main targets)? Brutality is for zerging and clan scrims, and the life siphoning from AA escalates so bad and is so buggy and unreliable that ST just outshadows the other two (in the same way that Righteous Instincts became mandatory in any optimized power Guardian build).

    At even skills Rev won't beat a power Mesmer, SB (which mas more blocks, stuns and dazes than breakstuns/blocks/evades the Rev has) or Ranger (which can play in PvP with zerker amulet and daze/stun/knockback from stealth and then instantly crit for 11k pet attack + his own hits). Also, I only play Rev and only PvP these days and this class is in its absolute lowest point at any game mode since its inception (that "potato" nickname was a freehand).

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2018

    @Buran.3796
    I don't know what build Tubby has in his YT channel but I watch his streams and he swaps between the 3 GM traits all the time. From what I've seen he uses Brutality more than Swift Termination. I also watch Bryvanent occasionally and he never picks it. Look at the top end of PvP (I have no idea who Justine is, is this NA?), I've watched the EU mAT's and no one runs it. Most people run AA incidentally, I think Brutality is also great and it's a matter of preference.

    And yeah, I'll dismiss Swift Termination because it isn't worth it. You'll get a bigger DPS increase when +1'ing from quickness than you will from this.
    Or rather to rephrase it, it's not a terrible trait and it's certainly very viable but I'm arguing the other 2 traits are more useful in most situations. I run Brutality but if I wasn't lazy I'd probably swap back and forth between AA and Brutality depending on what I'm fighting (AA is useful against high toughness because the Siphon damage ignores it, see Spellbreaker). It's definitely not even close to being a Righteous Instincts equivalent, RI is mandatory because it lets you reach a high crit chance without any Precision so you can run Valkyrie amulet\gear. It's literally the heart of any core Guard DPS build.

    If you want a better comparison, look at Thief, an even more pure +1 class than Power Rev. Thief has Executioner in Deadly Arts, which is literally the exact same trait as Swift Termination. Almost no one uses it, because even as a +1 the utility from Improv is more universally useful than some flat damage increase that may or may not be helpful or even needed.

    I disagree on the matchups, especially that SB beats Rev, but we'll agree to disagree. I somewhat agree with Ranger as in a good Druid is a difficult matchup due to immob spam, stealth & kiting you with LB.

  • Mongk.2467Mongk.2467 Member ✭✭

    I personally am looking foward to have a mechanic similar to trident in the whole class. It is so fun.

  • Loboling.5293Loboling.5293 Member ✭✭✭

    Personally I consider renegade to be a flop in many ways. It can be interesting, but they didn't do anything interesting for shortbow and the skills lack any flexibility.

    Otherwise, I've always felt that base rev should have a few base utility skills. Just 1 heal, 3 utility and one elite. These would help them adapt to have more condi cleanse, stunbreak, damage.

    They are also missing another base weapons, and with the introduction of trident, I'm still holding up hope for a new one.

    With that the flexibility of the Rev would sky rocket. From there we would need to see if they need anything else. But I'd be back to maining Rev. Otherwise, it'll remain my main alt. Since I absolutely love the theme and look. The skills are fun and it's for sure my favorite class. But it doesn't handle meta changes well. It can't adapt to things the way other classes can.

    Ps: I mostly PvP.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    I've never seen any decent PvP Rev pick Swift Termination, and "top roamers" tend to be top PvP players. It's not worth giving up on the sustain and extra damage from AA or the stronger burst and utility (quick Glint\Shiro elites, quick Renewing Wave) from Brutality.

    I use swift termination prolly 75% of the time when wvw roaming. :anguished:

    The amount of mid fight pressure it can generate during even a simple combo like PT+PS is tremendous and usually ends up preventing more incoming damage through pure offensive pressure than AA compensates for in healing. It's also great at burning through scourge's panic barriers. It does fall behind I think when fighting 1v2+ tho... As these are much longer fights.

    I do usually use AA or Brutality in sPvP though (unless I see the comps and know I'm just gonna be ganking hard all match) where you have less area to work with, smaller windows to burst, and the type of incoming dmg where AA makes a more noticeable difference... I do think Brutality is somewhat wasted in sPvP tho because you're most likely running Agility on your sword and/or using PT as an opener when +1'ing, but it does have its uses... And I guess it would free up a sigil spot if you like other options, but they're all pretty meh these days, imo.

  • Milan.9035Milan.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    And there was zero balance changes. When was the last time that a patch changed something that rev used.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    How in your opinion is the gameplay significantly different now? Is it just the damage/sustain output? How do you feel it could be changed without making it OP like it was for much of HoT?

    I'm genuinely curious about the above questions btw. I know that there are definitely people in your camp where the current rev doesn't appeal to them, but used to, so I'm interested in that perspective. For me personally, I don't feel the gameplay is vastly different for Power, so its hard for me to intuitively understand your positions. Additionally, I think a lot of us, like the others quoted, have a genuine desire to preserve the current/past playstyles and don't want to add 4 attunements/energy gain/no weapon energy/etc. and so the guardian/warrior/elementalist comments are more geared towards people that want the class to be more like those classes and aren't aimed at people (like you) that love the original design and want that to be kept.

    Old power Rev had favorable PvP matchups. Current one loses in every 1 vs 1 if both players are equally skilled. And if you're thinking about playing as a +1, then half of the roster does that role better. Mesmers, Thieves, Rangers and Holos had much better burst damage while also keeping more mobility and stronger sustain (while also having free access to stealth, cleanses and disengaging tools). Those four can also pressure enemies at range, so don't have to deal with AoE damage and cc from Scourges, Weavers and Firebrands if they don't want. So essentially they have the strong tools (damage, spikes, sustain, mobility, viable at mele and ranged combat...) whereas Rev has the weakness (lack of cleansing, energy + cd cost, no flexibility in both skills, traits and weapons...).

    @Narcx: I'll never take a trait over Swift Termination. Didn't saw a top roamer using Brutality or AA, and the changes in IO really damaged the chances of landing hammer skills in small skirmishes (I mean 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2, any one can hit targets if the screen is full of them).

    I known that some players are good enough to compete at any PvP tier with any class, but that doesn't change the fact: any time a player uses Rev in PvP his team would have more chances of success if they had a different class instead.

    Power rev has decent match-ups against power warrior, power guardian, ele (all builds), holo and scrapper, solo. As someone who mostly plays core guardians in sPvP nowadays, beast master followed by rev then holo, are the worst three match-up for me (assuming equal skill). I burn through mirages like butter :p

    Obviously solo is not rev specialty. It is extremely hard countered by condis, multiple targets and boon corrupt removal. And this issue is not a solo exclusive issue. It is actually more problematic in med fights. Man, I need to be more sneaky than thief to successfully land my burst and get out safely.

  • Is any one else having trouble with renegade skills not snapping to target . All the ground target skills don't work for renegade legend and only snap to my cursor not target.

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