Why Renegade over Herald?

What are the advantages of playing Renegade over Herald, as a backline hammer build in wvw? And do you think they outweigh the benefits of Herald?

I don’t see the appeal but it probably has something to do with the Condi reduction and more AoEs from the Kalla Fskills

In WvW i would say herald is better IMO.Renegade has more dmg and condis though and maybe is chosen over herald because if this.

renegade in wvw? usually tags will ask you to switch to herald.what renegade is good at, is giving alacrity to catapults and rams. but 1-2 renegades per zerg is enough for those tactics. (mist of the times mesmers will do it anyway).

the herald utilities are usually better suited for a zerg (core boons - fury, swiftness, protection, might)... and they dont die in 1second like renegades skills.the elite is very good cc and superspeed.the heal is much more reliable.superspeed on stunbreak (!).the ability to grant might to allies is similar-ish (herald being weaker), but the e.g. stunbreak for allies, when you successfully do a stunbreak (herald!) can make a difference when your zerg is bubbled and cc'ed at some point (if you chose the trait ofc.).

the damage of both should not make a big difference. renegade gets 150/250 ferocity bonus. while herald gains 2% dmg per boon.the additional f3 skill is comparable to facet of elements - while the latter does less damage, it gives wekaness, chill and does burn.

so, is there and advantage chosing renegade? nope, i dont think so.who told you so?

@Aetatis.5418 said:who told you so?

It wasn't that I was told, more that I have seen quite a few renegade backliners recently. More so than heralds. And it vexed me somewhat.

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Aetatis.5418 said:who told you so?

probably because it looks and sounds nice... and it is the newest elite spec.i doubt it has something to do with efficiency - if somebody can prove me wrong, do it ofc.

About the only reason is to utilize darkrazors daring + sigil of draining, alacrity and soul cleaves summit.

It scales horribly outside 10v10 to 20v20 though.

I tried Renegade as a backline power build, that extra AoE from Citadel Bombardment is fun but outside of that i melt like hot choco, Herald is way better in both zergling and roaming, Facet of Light/Infuse Light save me countless time in many dire scenario.

Renegade would become a real deal if the summon are not killable but that clearly not the case.

I think you used to be able to get slightly more burst out of Lasting Legacy, but that's no longer true with the new Bolster Fortifications. I guess the only real argument for backline power renegade these days would be that you can help with Alacrity and you can interrupt a rez from range with Darkrazor... But, like, that's probably not enough to justify the loss of damage/survivability from Herald.

Renegade is primarily for alacrity to buff your group- it's for the Citadel Orders that people take it, as well as Kalla's Fervor. I haven't seen any competent players running the legend, it's mostly Shiro-Jalis. Unfortunately in this day and age fights often end too fast to make any real use out of it. The pirate ship meta, caused in large part by hammer rev, is a hindrance to any advantage Renegade might have had. IMO herald is still the way to go if you're blobbing. Glint is too good, and I'd rather be Jalis-Glint than Shiro-Jalis if it came down to it.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Renegade is primarily for alacrity to buff your group- it's for the Citadel Orders that people take it, as well as Kalla's Fervor. I haven't seen any competent players running the legend, it's mostly Shiro-Jalis. Unfortunately in this day and age fights often end too fast to make any real use out of it. The pirate ship meta, caused in large part by hammer rev, is a hindrance to any advantage Renegade might have had. IMO herald is still the way to go if you're blobbing. Glint is too good, and I'd rather be Jalis-Glint than Shiro-Jalis if it came down to it.

Pirate ship meta is not caused by hammer revenant. Rather, hammer revenant is opportunistic and is at its best in Pirate ship meta, so it gets played a lot during this type. Hammer Rev has been around since HoT (and used to be stronger) and there have been several meta types besides pirate ship during that time. The things that have actually caused the pirate ship meta is the massive amount of boon strip. Push/ball meta can only exist if the groups are able to maintain enough boons to not get completely wrecked by enemy AoEs/Condis. Since scourge and spellbreaker are so amazing at ripping and corrupting boons on enemies, melee based metas become less viable and thus everyone reverts back to pirate ship and thus people start bringing back their hammer revs en masse.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Renegade is primarily for alacrity to buff your group- it's for the Citadel Orders that people take it, as well as Kalla's Fervor. I haven't seen any competent players running the legend, it's mostly Shiro-Jalis. Unfortunately in this day and age fights often end too fast to make any real use out of it. The pirate ship meta, caused in large part by hammer rev, is a hindrance to any advantage Renegade might have had. IMO herald is still the way to go if you're blobbing. Glint is too good, and I'd rather be Jalis-Glint than Shiro-Jalis if it came down to it.

Perhaps I worded that phrase unwisely in terms of correlation/causation, I agree, but hammer rev is still the top damage spike dealer from long range and makes it unnecessary to get in melee anyway, enabling you to still get downs from long range while being more survivable than something like staff ele. I suppose I've just played WvW for so long that I don't even think about days where the boon strip wasn't there, considering pirate ship was around well before spellbreaker bubbles and scourge shades cancered everything up even more.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Renegade is primarily for alacrity to buff your group- it's for the Citadel Orders that people take it, as well as Kalla's Fervor. I haven't seen any competent players running the legend, it's mostly Shiro-Jalis. Unfortunately in this day and age fights often end too fast to make any real use out of it. The pirate ship meta, caused in large part by hammer rev, is a hindrance to any advantage Renegade might have had. IMO herald is still the way to go if you're blobbing. Glint is too good, and I'd rather be Jalis-Glint than Shiro-Jalis if it came down to it.

Sic 'Em + Moment of Clarity says, wait wut?

Theoretically, your backline shouldn't be taking damage, if your group is playing perfectly (or at minimum not enough to go down). Some of the better backline revs are running Renegade though for the passive ferocity and extra aoe from citadel bombardment. These are the player that don't typically care at all about survivability since they fully rely on their FB's and are already running full berserkers and scholar runes. Note here: they aren't running the kalla legend though, they typically run some combination of shiro, mallyx, and jallis (i mostly see shiro/jalis since the build is completely reliant anyways on FB/scourge support)

Since the last patch though I would argue that you get better damage output from herald now, due to the new trait that gives 5% more damage while you have protection.

I guess if your boons are covered by other classes herald loses a lot of its power.

I dont have PoF but, if i had the PoF elite spec i would play it with Deamon something like this i think it compensate herald/jalis as well herald/vent build, since ti provides resitance and condition resistance with bastion heal.

(edited link with correct stats lol)http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAV5nnfNWMTuJvmRHlZzskytZ4SZ3Mor8bmlTl6fEXxZk9IaipINAOgGA-j1xCQBMb/hjdBAuoyvWqE8gq/AgHAw90BQKgJFbB-w

Pain absortion when diving and doing banish enchantment on the targets where the Spellbroken(forgot the warrior elite spec real name ._. ) bubble miss or players that managed to drop off bubble zone in time.

I would try to play it has a movement debuffer and anti condi to work in pair with Jalis rev mostly.

dropping Soulcleave and Razor for enhancing the team's attacks, also the heal reduce condition damage. This helps far range with 1200 range Hammer since the other Legend utilities arent 1200, but you will be dropping these spirits on allies instead of enemies afar.