The Pact in the story

Hello everyone. I have just finished playing season 3 and I really loved the maps and the gameplay elements that were added! However, I would like to know what you think about our character's role in the story. In the battle with Zhaitan, I felt that the whole of Tyria was against him and wanted to defend themselves. The char sent their tanks, the asura their tech, the norn their smiths, etc. But during season 3, the only people who seemed to care about the elder dragons was our character and Taimi. I think the importance that Taimi has on the story diminishes everyone (she figures everything out herself!). So instead of asking the Asura or the Priory for help, Taimi gives us the answers. Instead of getting the char design a heat resistant suit for our descent into the volcano, we speak to the druids for a heat shield and ofc Taimi figures out how to make one herself. At this point it feels like we are Taimi's henchman while she is the one who will save Tyria single handedly. Futhermore, the pact that we were a part of seems to have vanished. No character development of any of its members, nothing! I feel that a huge opportunity to develop characters for future expansions was lost.

I am just a little disappointed as GW2 is beginning to feel a lot like Skyrim where ~~our character ~~Taimi is basically the dragonborn who can solve all of Tyria's problems single-handedly. The races, the various orders would have more meaning if they had a more active role in the story. I also hope that in the future there would be order specific quests. For example, it would be amazing to see all the players who had chosen to be a part of the vigil to come together dressed in vigil armour and run in head first to defend forts and cities while the .

So anyway what are your thoughts on the pact and its non existent role in the story. As I have not played path of fire or the latest season I am not sure if what I have said is void. If it is, I apologise.

I have no issue with Taimi figuring stuff out, leading the narrative and telling us what we need to do. That is fine and works efficiently in the episodic format. The problem is the over reliance on her knowing everything and the implication all the other resource heavy teams cant figure it out and the reluctance to share info with them at times.

We seem to have to gone backwards in this regard, given one of the key pillars of the personal story was the need to unite and work together to beat Zhaitan. Something we effectively proved at the end if HoT as well in both instanced and open world.

Utilising Taimi is fine, but Im not happy we feel like the sole saviour of this world and story. Given the over exaggerated feedback about Trahearne, I am a minority here., however they use the pact/orders/sunspears etc much better in open world and it is here where their storytelling is strongest

I like the character of Taimi a lot. I don't like how convenient some of her solutions are, but I blame the writing and not the character for that... They should be able to switch up the format sometimes. I think Taimi is good intro and outro to the episodes especially though because we can talk to her remotely and I like the idea of getting the literal "call to action" from her. She's basically the hacker/techie on every modern superhero tv show nowadays lol.

But as @Randulf.7614 mentions, we are lacking that feeling of worldwide unity so integral to the main story. Forming the pact was a massive undertaking. It was the bulk of the PS. A lot of work went into uniting the races and organizations under one banner, and then after we defeated Zhaitan the pact just sort of... ceased to be relevant. It seems odd to me that they would not participate more actively against the other dragons/world threats. It's just funny to me that we're the Commander, but we've severed all ties with the Pact we formed.

It's the same issue with fridging Destiny's Edge. The absence of the survivors is uncanny and weird, story-wise. Anet just put them on a bus and hoped we'd forget them, excepting Rytlock. I can't say I'm crazy about DE, but it's just sad how the writers have completely dumped the characters integral to the early game. I like that we've shifted focus to new characters, but it would be nice to have those older DE and PS characters guest star from time to time. It'd make the world feel more dynamic and alive, vs the world revolving entirely around one person.

Currently, story IMO feels like some generic Justice League/Avangers movie where half a dozen magical individuals do everything and everybody else barely contributes.

That's why you won't see Pact most likely in the future. Its a relic from the past where we actually had to organise on international scale to combat dragons. We had to unify nations and factions. Find exceptional individuals all over the world. Pool all our joint effort and resources.

But currently, we are playing this Guild Wars: Black Ops where a small team goes behind enemy lines and fairly easily does what even Gods feared to do.

Both Zhaitan and Mordremoth attacked central Tyria (both blew up Lion's Arch at one point). You can find Risen and Mordrem in various maps as leftovers of those attacks. T hen, in PoF/Season 4,

!neither Balthazar and Joko bother attacking Tyria since they're out doing their own thing. There's a small Lionguard response, which has to do more with stemming the number of refugees.

In the personal story, it took every bit of organization they had to build the pact. At the end of LW2 Mordremoth destroys everything the pact built in a couple minutes. Verdant Brink was the end of the power of the pact, and the march on Mordremoth only worked because of making allies in the jungle.

! Traehearne's death basically sealed their fate.

So between depleted forces and no current aggressor threatening Tyria, the pact was naturally going to fall into disarray.

Taimi mostly takes the backseat in Path of Fire, and it seems as if she is slowly assembling a new krewe in LWS4, which may spread around the "know-it-all" aspect of her character.

The Pact is in disarray. It is rebuilding. Regrouping. Reorganizing under Thackery's new management. We may start seeing more of it in Living World Season 4 or Expansion 3, but for now, it's a hollow shell of its former glory.

Did Taimi actually graduate from the College of Synergetics? If not, she might be eventually forced to spend some time with her final exams. Even if she's already competent enough to pass with an A++, she still has to be physically present in order to pass.

This is where Pact Marshall Thackeray could help us out with needed intelligence, while we tell him what we know about magic, the world, Elona and several other things he wasn't around to witness. Bonus Points for Logan and Rytlock dialogue, since the two of them are on good terms nowadays.

One thing people don't seem to be mentioning is that the Pact wasn't made to fight rouge gods or undead liches, their sole purpose was to deal with the elder Dragon problem. So it made sense for them to not be around during POF, because we weren't fighting a dragon, and it has already been mentioned that they are taking some time to recoup from Mordremoth. Palawa Joko and Balthazar weren't their fights, so it made sense for them to sit back.

@Tazer.2157 said:. Futhermore, the pact that we were a part of seems to have vanished. No character development of any of its members, nothing! I feel that a huge opportunity to develop characters for future expansions was lost.I am just a little disappointed as GW2 is beginning to feel a lot like Skyrim where ~~our character ~~Taimi is basically the dragonborn who can solve all of Tyria's problems single-handedly. The races, the various orders would have more meaning if they had a more active role in the story. I also hope that in the future there would be order specific quests. For example, it would be amazing to see all the players who had chosen to be a part of the vigil to come together dressed in vigil armour and run in head first to defend forts and cities while the .So anyway what are your thoughts on the pact and its non existent role in the story. As I have not played path of fire or the latest season I am not sure if what I have said is void. If it is, I apologise.

In theory the Pact is weakened after the fight against Zhaithan. But that was not well represented in the game.

But however, I believe the meta-event against Mouth of Mordremoth in Dragon Stand did the justice to the Pact lore. Its a epic, entire meta-event lead by Pact.

Regarding Taimi: Genesis already mentioned it, but her role in the story drops off sharply after Flashpoint. You'll still be seeing her, but she won't be the one with a solution or a plan anymore.

Regarding the Pact: it's not just weakened, it's been pushed to the brink of non-existence. We're told that after Mordremoth's fall "the vast majority of its troops [were] dead or missing." It took them about two years just to find a new leader, and we hear in passing that the orders are back at each other's throats again. For better or for worse, they've been written out of the picture for the time being. Maybe they'll rebound some to go after Kralkatorrik, but I don't think we'll ever see them being the great force that they were in the Zhaitan campaign.

@Narcemus.1348 said:One thing people don't seem to be mentioning is that the Pact wasn't made to fight rouge gods or undead liches, their sole purpose was to deal with the elder Dragon problem. So it made sense for them to not be around during POF, because we weren't fighting a dragon, and it has already been mentioned that they are taking some time to recoup from Mordremoth. Palawa Joko and Balthazar weren't their fights, so it made sense for them to sit back.

Considering Jormag and Primordus both became active, and we actually came face to face with one of them, I'm not sure it makes so much sense that they just 'sat back'. We were facing the threat of two dragons at once, and a rogue god who was actively tracking down Kralkatorrik, who has ramped it's attacks on citizens. Kralky has been awake and dangerous for awhile, and Logan is very aware of that fact given how it was his guild who fought it. I see no reason they would be sitting on their laurels.

@Ceit.7619 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:One thing people don't seem to be mentioning is that the Pact wasn't made to fight rouge gods or undead liches, their sole purpose was to deal with the elder Dragon problem. So it made sense for them to not be around during POF, because we weren't fighting a dragon, and it has already been mentioned that they are taking some time to recoup from Mordremoth. Palawa Joko and Balthazar weren't their fights, so it made sense for them to sit back.

I think the main notion being expressed is that the pact was so devastated by Mordremoth that they are struggling to exist as an organization in the current time period. HoTs opened with the pact's airship armada being decimated by Mordy's vines, and things fell apart from there. The events of HoTs wiped out a lot of the Pact's fighting force.

Still, I don't think the writing has done us any favors to build on the idea of a shattered pact. Even if they can't mount the same sort of effort they did in the PS, it seems there should be even small surviving (or rogue) contingents of the pact following the action in Tyria. Even if Kralk wasn't the focus of PoF, he was definitely a major element.

It would be nice to get an update on the pact and the crucial NPCs from the PS that survive to this day; I don't buy that they're just retired and completely apathetic.

@"Svennis.3852" said:It would be nice to get an update on the pact and the crucial NPCs from the PS that survive to this day; I don't buy that they're just retired and completely apathetic.Rytlok tells us at the end of the first episode of this current Living world season that hes going to get in contact with Logan, and ask him to direct Pact forces to deal with Joko's invasion in central Tyria, while we are in Elona fighting it at the source.

That is what the Pact has been doing this whole time, fighting Joko's forces in Tyria proper while we deal with stuff in Elona.

You also have to consider that at the core, The Pact was a “defensive measure” meant to initially defend from Zhaitan. Actually taking the fight to Zhaitan and killing it was unthinkable until, well, plot made it possible.

As such it doesn’t really have any right or reason to go into foreign regions and muck about with internal politics/problems there. It is not the World Police.

If we ever get to deal with Jormag, as I desperately hope we will, The Pact will most likely make a return to the plot.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:It would be nice to get an update on the pact and the crucial NPCs from the PS that survive to this day; I don't buy that they're just retired and completely apathetic.Rytlok tells us at the end of the first episode of this current Living world season that hes going to get in contact with Logan, and ask him to direct Pact forces to deal with Joko's invasion in central Tyria, while we are in Elona fighting it at the source.

Hmm, I do vaguely remember that now that you mention it. But still, it would be nice to get more information beyond a one liner.

Pact quite obviously still exists. So no, the "destruction" of Pact is not the reason why they aren't in the game. Reason why they aren't in the game is to give artistic liberty to story teams to take game in different direction.

This is actually a standard narrative method in many games, where main character leaves their original organisation so new storylines can be explored which otherwise would make no sense. (For comparison see Mass Effect 2)

@kasoki.5180 that’s fair, I just think the world would feel more “alive” if the pact was still involved in the plot and striving toward its own goals, separate from the Commander.

As of now it feels like anything the Commander isn’t actively touching ceases to exist. Just feels a bit hollow.

@"Svennis.3852" said:@"kasoki.5180" that’s fair, I just think the world would feel more “alive” if the pact was still involved in the plot and striving toward its own goals

You mean like sending a ship of supplies to Amnoon after they got hit by the Branded. Which then got assaulted by Joko and its crew turned into Scarab Plague test subject greetings for the Commander, prompting Faren to demand "Krytan justice" on Joko thus joining the assault on Gandara as the sole Krytan human representative (a statement that completely ignores his former best friend, noble human Commander)?

As of now it feels like anything the Commander isn’t actively touching ceases to exist. Just feels a bit hollow.

TBH, that's kind of been how it was since Season 1. Anything not relevant to the main plot is more or less in a state of Schrodinger's Plot.

To be fair, my memory is shit. XPBut I still think they could make a bigger impact.

Also keep in mind that the Pact is spreading itself thin as it is. They launched an assault on Mordremoth, which was a catastrophic failure. But they likely still retain a residual force in Orr and possibly the various forts on the way. They had forces in the Shiverpeaks and Ascalon. And I suspect that a lot of these forces of the Pact were not necessarily fulltime members but crusading volunteers who were contributing for the big pushes in Orr and Maguuma.

I am aware that the Pact has fallen into disarray during the siege into Maguma, but there has been no instance where our character helps the Pact rebuild and regroup. Instead our character decides to join the shining blades! I literally stopped caring past that point. I could not believe that my character who had fought with the Pact in the PS just disregards it and dives in so willingly to be a part of some human group. GW2 is supposed to be an MMO, but I feel there is a huge disconnect between the personal story and the rest of the game. While the side content is amazing at bringing people together, the story seems to be a single player game. The story is supposed to build our character in game, it should give us the feeling that we are a part of this huge world along with other people. I just do not get that feeling from the story of this game. Alliances have no meaning in this game. One of the reasons I keep going back to wow is because my character identifies itself as part of a larger group, a group that has thousands of other people. This is what an MMO is all about. Our decisions we made in game should have a meaningful consequence. I believe order/race specific quests would go a long way into sorting this disconnect. Right now I cannot even distinguish between my asura character to my char character. We are just "the commander" no matter which race we belong to and that is just so boring!

@"Tazer.2157" said:I am aware that the Pact has fallen into disarray during the siege into Maguma, but there has been no instance where our character helps the Pact rebuild and regroup. Instead our character decides to join the shining blades!Apparently, that conversation with Almorra at the start of S3E1, where we reject the position of Marshal, is the PC leaving the Pact. I didn't get that impression myself, but that's effectively what happened.We are just "the commander" no matter which race we belong to and that is just so boring!Sadly accurate. After Claw Island, aside from choosing which new recruit to add to the Pact and defending your Order's HQ, we all followed the same plotline. Most dialogue is the same, with incresingly rarer racial or profession flavour text.

@"Rognik.2579" said:Apparently, that conversation with Almorra at the start of S3E1, where we reject the position of Marshal, is the PC leaving the Pact. I didn't get that impression myself, but that's effectively what happened.

That's not entirely true. No formal resignation happened, it's just that the position of "Commander" isn't an official rank. It was a title to signal that the PC was Trahearne's second-in-command. As a lifelasting title, it can't really be taken away. But as there's a new marshall, Logan, they should have the right to name their own Commander if they choose to do so. So the PC Commander becomes more an honorary member than a formal one.

@Yannir.4132 said:

@"Rognik.2579" said:Apparently, that conversation with Almorra at the start of S3E1, where we reject the position of Marshal, is the PC leaving the Pact. I didn't get that impression myself, but that's effectively what happened.

Commander is indeed a rank. In Season 2, we hear the names of two "newer" Commanders:

Trahearne: Has anyone heard from Commander Frostgullet? She's late![...]Trahearne: Tell Commander Quentyn to ready his ship.

Though we never met them. There was also an interview with a dev who said along the lines of "the PC was 'the first Commander' but more have been promoted to the rank since then." There's also a number of other "Commander" individuals in the core maps and Season 2, most of which wear Vigil armor, despite Vigil having no such ranking:

Vik Tailbiter who oversees Pact efforts in Frostgorge Sound.Trinmaw Skullbash who oversees Pact efforts in Fireheart Rise alongside Commander LakkunBlaike, who is found in Straits of DevastationFionia, met in Season 2 instanceStormfoot who leads the Pact assault on Crucible of Eternity.And Suma who leads the Pact effort within Citadel of Flame itself.

There are two oddities though, Gresham and Raff, who are in areas "pre-Pact", which may suggest Commander is a Vigil rank that never got specified to anyone, or their rank is a typo as their camps have no Warmasters.

Point being, Commander is an established Pact rank, whether or not it is also an established Vigil rank.

The PC very much did resign from being a member of the Pact. Hence the whole discussion of "what should we call you now?" with Taimi's line:

Taimi: What did I hear? You're not in the Pact anymore? Wait. What do I call you? Pooh-bah?

Plus there's this just before Taimi's line:

PC: As flattered as I am by your offer, I'm going to have to respectfully decline, General.PC: After our Mordremoth battle, I believe I, Rytlock, and the others would be more effective operating as our own guild.General Almorra Soulkeeper: I understand the decision on your early retirement, although I'm disappointed. I still believe in the Pact's goal.PC: I do too, and I'll always be ready to lend a hand. It'll just be outside the system.

The PC outright states they'll work "outside the system" of the Pact, which basically means they're no longer part of the Pact.

It's pretty point-blank obvious the PC left the Pact.

Say the wrong things, and get a good story. I like the lore forums. <3