What's some changes you would like to see made to Dwarf and Retribution? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What's some changes you would like to see made to Dwarf and Retribution?

What's some changes you would like to see made to Dwarf and Retribution?

Comments

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stunbreak moved off elite skill to maybe Vengeful Hammers and introduce a 5 second cd to that skill? Idk.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • @Justine.6351 said:
    Stunbreak moved off elite skill to maybe Vengeful Hammers and introduce a 5 second cd to that skill? Idk.

    You like the Taunt skill as is, or no?

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Stunbreak moved off elite skill to maybe Vengeful Hammers and introduce a 5 second cd to that skill? Idk.

    You like the Taunt skill as is, or no?

    Tbh I don't play jalis.

    If I were to be convinced to play jalis I would need to see some crazy changes,

    • Soothing Stone, projectiles that would hit you are destroyed instead for 3 seconds.
    • Stunbreak off elite, preferably instant cast skill (vengeful hammers)
    • Forced Engagement would need a remake/improvment. 5 target spread chain like spectral grasp, piercing, damage, roll over skill that pulls you to chained foe; anything really. Its just meh looking right now.
    • Inspiring Reinforcement, like idk why that skill has 30e and 10sec recharge for what it does. Toss some vulnerability on it? Forward pushing cc wall as the road is created (thinking guardians warding line + revs sotm).

    The jalis kit just doesn't have enough secondary coolness you find in glint/shiro.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • A price reduction to his stone road would be nice. Also, something to help versus condi Mirages. I'm taking 85% less damage and getting destroyed.

  • Jalis is my least favorite core legend. I don't think it's bad necessarily, I just don't find it very exciting. I think the heal is fine, the hammers are fine, and the elite is mostly fine, but the taunt and the road feel unsatisfying and lacking oomph that skills from other legends have. Retal could at least be added to the road, perhaps a stunbreak as well.

    Personally, I think barrier should be introduced more into both the legend and the traitline. It is a fitting mechanic and currently only is accessible via Song of the Mists, but could easily be expanded upon. Beyond that, Enhanced Bulwark should be reintroduced into Retribution GM line. Not sure what else though.

  • @Justine.6351 said:

    • Soothing Stone, projectiles that would hit you are destroyed instead for 3 seconds.
    • Stunbreak off elite, preferably instant cast skill (vengeful hammers)

    If you trait planar protection, soothing stone does exactly that but for 8 seconds. and stunbreak on elite is instant cast. just saying.

    Jalis as it is right now has some decent defensive stuff. focuses on stability, retal and dmg mitigation in various ways. How to improve? First thing would be to give us a reliable way to grant ourselves retal. except for soothing stone which has 30s cd we have 2 traits that are not reliable at all. Also I am not sure how taunt fits into everything. It sure is a nice idea at first, letting enemies hit you with retal, but taunt is usually very short duration and can be removed with stunbreaks in pvp so that does not work well. I agree the by far weakest skill right now is Forced Engagement. Why would you taunt someone and then make him attack slower so that he does get less retal in the face? well... swap slow out for retal would be a good idea ;) perhaps you could also buff the road by giving us a trait to apply retal when we apply stab. That is if you are going to stick to the original jalis ideas stated above.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is speaking to PvP, because obviously there's no situation (outside of maybe a beginner-style hand kiting at deimos build) that Retribution is going to be used in PvE...

    But, there's two big reasons that I can't see Ret ever being a real choice again...

    First off, back when ret was a popular variant, revs has a LOAD more burst on their weapons (sotm+80%, ps+33%, ua+22%) and a pre-nerf, pre-removal, Equilibrium to carry their bursts, which let you opt for a more defensive trait line. Even with oh sword being pretty beast, it's not enough to be able to replace Devastation or Invocation and still hope to be a factor in any fight.

    And secondly, Unwavering Avoidance (which was even stronger back then since you didn't have to even dodge an actual attack to proc it, and had a lower--or depending how far back you go--no cooldown) is just a stone-cold liability in the current metascape. At least 3/4's of your games will have a Scourge on the other team... And if you take retribution, it means that every time you dodge, you effectively are turning almost every skill he has into Fear, since he is packing so much boon corrupt.

    So honestly, no matter how you rework Ret/Jalis, or how much damage you add into non-traited areas, as long as Scourges are so prevalent and have such easy access to boon corruption, there's no way you an justify playing ret... Especially since Unwavering is a minor trait that you can't opt out of.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Forced engagement as AoE, no tethering, is now stunbreak (moved from elite) blocks attacks for next few seconds.
    Inspiring reinforcement is now circular and ground targeted.

    One change on hammer: Phase smash now marks the area it strikes so you can teleport to it in the next few seconds. Counts as a leap finisher.
    Gives hammer some mobility and synergy with inspiring reinforcement.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    I would like rework taunt. I've never played tank rev so IDK if it is important skill. But in dungeons, Fractals and WvW or PvP i never use it and if I do it was almost 0 impact or missed. so dont know why it is there. Same with taunting traits. Maybe someone with more knowledge will explain me.

    Jokaurene

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018

    @narcx.3570 said:
    This is speaking to PvP, because obviously there's no situation (outside of maybe a beginner-style hand kiting at deimos build) that Retribution is going to be used in PvE...

    But, there's two big reasons that I can't see Ret ever being a real choice again...

    First off, back when ret was a popular variant, revs has a LOAD more burst on their weapons (sotm+80%, ps+33%, ua+22%) and a pre-nerf, pre-removal, Equilibrium to carry their bursts, which let you opt for a more defensive trait line. Even with oh sword being pretty beast, it's not enough to be able to replace Devastation or Invocation and still hope to be a factor in any fight.

    And secondly, Unwavering Avoidance (which was even stronger back then since you didn't have to even dodge an actual attack to proc it, and had a lower--or depending how far back you go--no cooldown) is just a stone-cold liability in the current metascape. At least 3/4's of your games will have a Scourge on the other team... And if you take retribution, it means that every time you dodge, you effectively are turning almost every skill he has into Fear, since he is packing so much boon corrupt.

    So honestly, no matter how you rework Ret/Jalis, or how much damage you add into non-traited areas, as long as Scourges are so prevalent and have such easy access to boon corruption, there's no way you an justify playing ret... Especially since Unwavering is a minor trait that you can't opt out of.

    This why Ret may need "Unique Boons" that aren't the standard boons but just the trait itself procing that can't be corrupted.
    Similar to how Rite of the Great Dwarf has damage reduction like Protection boon but is its own unique icon.

  • I like the idea of more Barrier on Dwarf. I believe Rite of the Great Dwarf Elite should provide a Barrier and explode doing AoE Damage to nearby enemies once skill fade causing confusion while also stun breaking and providing damage reduction. This could justify the energy cost for this.

  • @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    I would like rework taunt. I've never played tank rev so IDK if it is important skill. But in dungeons, Fractals and WvW or PvP i never use it and if I do it was almost 0 impact or missed. so dont know why it is there. Same with taunting traits. Maybe someone with more knowledge will explain me.

    It was a new concept, just like Barriers was a new concept in PoF. Just Taunt was poorly executed since it doesn't break bars in pve better than other CC, and the duration is so short that it's useless in PvP. With the limitations of the Legend system, that one ability alone is 1/5th of the utilities that we can't choose from.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭

    here are the changes i would like to see

    Utilities
    soothing stone - cleanse ability should go before the healing take part so poison wont reduce the healing. each condition cleanse proc 1 stack barrier of 1k aoe
    Inspiring reinforcement - should be like the underwater skill rounded effect
    forced engagement - should be stunbreak and increase it direct dmg and duration of slow to 3 sec.
    release hammer - maybe increase its dmg and healing out put a bit.
    RotGD - also effect condition dmg. no stunbreak

    Traits
    planar protection - is not tide to any skill. thus the 4 sec duration in wvw and pvp should be as pve 8 sec.
    improve aggression - should increase taut duration by 100% like pve. taunt is condition and also can be cancel by stunbreak (like fear). thus the duration should be doable. retaliation should be also 5 sec. as we have only 1 skill that taunt.
    vicious reprisal - also retaliation effectiveness increase by 100%. - GM trait which focus on dmg
    versed in stone - instead of the condition reduction which remove to the skill itself when below 50% and using elite skill you proc barrier to allies around you. 4k. GM trait which focus on party support
    steadfast rejuvenation - also cleanse 1 condition. GM trait which focus on self sustain (bunkering)

    an over all focusing on barrier to support your allies. not like a scourge who proc when using a kill. jalis needs certain condition like 50% hp or to cleanse conditions.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    I would like rework taunt. I've never played tank rev so IDK if it is important skill. But in dungeons, Fractals and WvW or PvP i never use it and if I do it was almost 0 impact or missed. so dont know why it is there. Same with taunting traits. Maybe someone with more knowledge will explain me.

    It does pretty okay breakbar damage in PvE... Can definitely help you finish off a breakbar without swapping out of Sw/Sw--that is of course assuming that you're being selfish and playing Shiro/Jalis instead of Shiro/Glint or Kalla for the extra little bit of so personal dps instead of all that group utility (not recommended).

    Taunt is, however, pretty oppressive in PvP... It's just a shame that it's locked behind Jalis which is so not worth taking.

  • Improved aggression is bugged. It does not increase taunt duration as far as i have tested. Can anyone here test it too and confirm?

  • Taunt is fine in PvP. You can actually get off some pretty damaging combos from it. Taunt - Sword 5 - Vengeful Hammers - Sword 2- Sword 4

    I like the idea of giving the sidewalk barrier. Right now I only use it to safe stomp or dps in a combo if other skills are on cooldown.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For Jalis utilities, energy costs is the killer. Also, the setup for Jalis to “tank” does not work in PvP at all. Elite desperately needs energy cost reduction.

    For retribution as a line, it needs better access to healing and more reliable damage reduction than stability.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    For Jalis utilities, energy costs is the killer. Also, the setup for Jalis to “tank” does not work in PvP at all. Elite desperately needs energy cost reduction.

    For retribution as a line, it needs better access to healing and more reliable damage reduction than stability.

    healing is salvation and centaur . retribution and jalis should be barriers theme to absorb dmg

  • the taunt and retaliation stuff is really half-baked and should either be improved or tossed out.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2018

    Jalis looks like if he was made for wvw blob/PvE.

    Both jalis And mallyx Are too much energy for not that effect(for PVP). Samé fór retribution. You get little procentual dmg reduction And this benefits you ONLY in big parties where you can stack those Buffs. In PVP IT Will not help you.

    Offtopic: I've tried shiro/Ventari s/s+staff(salvation,invo, retribution/devastation) Avatar amulet(same as marauder but instead Fero you got heal power. Difference between retri And devastation Was huge. Without devastation your dmg was 0 And tankines was almost thé same Luke od you run without IT. So retribution to small group Is 100% waste. ONLY good for Blobing. Ventari wasnt that big drain fór energy but IT will delete your dmg potencial.

    Buildy diversity fór rev Is worst in thé game sadly

    Jokaurene

  • narcx.3570 is right about unwavering avoidance. maybe add a unique buff to vengeful hammers (VH) that makes it so stability cannot be removed from you (steals/rips/corrupts). also like Justine.6351 said, take the stunbreak off elite and put it on VH with a 10 sec cd. now that skill is strong as hell lol. take 10e off inspiring reinforcement. make steadfast rejuvenation not garbage by reducing the internal cd to 1sec. put 10% more damage on vicious reprisal. reduce forced engagement cd by 5sec and put a 2sec block on it like InsaneQR.7412 said.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭
    edited November 10, 2018

    I'd love to see Jalis being re-themed around protecting and disabling in a REAL sense.
    Right now what we have is:
    something that wants to give Stability, something that pretends to be the Tank - Spec (lol), something that is able to interrupt and CC enemies

    I want to see this Spec really reflecting these themes. First of all - UTILITEIS:

    • Soothing Stone - Gain Retaliation for the initial cast + 1,5 - 2 seconds for every condition cured || Gain Stability for the initial cast + gain X Barrier per condi cured
    • Inspiring Reinforcement - (BLAST FINISHER) You summon Jalis's hammer at a target location. When it smashes the ground, it creates the circle of Inspiring Reinforcement Weakening foes and granting allies Stability - 5 to 6s, 5 pulses.
    • Vengeful Hammers - This skill is pretty fine as it is, because it's the only selfish-offensive skill that Jalis has | Apply Cripple/Weakness/Slow at an interval.
    • Forced Engagement - 20-30 energy cost (BREAKS STUN) Taunt the nearest 3 foes granting yourself Barrier/Retaliation for every foe struck. No more "Slow" debuff as it's senseless.
    • Rite of the Great Dwarf - (NO LONGER STUNBREAK) HIT THE GREAT FORGE!!!! This is a chain skill now. First cast - on initial cast Daze nearby foes for 0.5s and grant your allies 1 stack of stability (10 energy cost).
      Second cast - Complete Rite of the Great Dwarf - 30% Damage + Condition Damage reduction for you and your allies (20 energy cost).

    RETRIBUTION TRAITS
    Grandmaster:

    • Determined Resolution (passive) - Stability you apply also grants (small amount of) Barrier
    • Steadfast Rejuvenation - Increases the healing granted by Vengeful Hammers by 33% - this skill now applies Weakness to to nearby foes on releasing the hammers.
    • Versed in Stone - Rite of the Great Dwarf (Second cast) now uses higher energy cost +10-15. Increase the number of Stability stacks granted by this skill from 1 to 3.
    • Vicious Reprisal - Forced Engagement can now be used on 1 target instead of 3. You link with your target (900 range) for 5s. Every 1.5s you apply conditions to your foe. Cripple, then Slow, then Stun. If your target gets out of the link range, the chain is broken.

    Master:

    • Eye for an Eye - When you Taunt you get Retaliation for every foe struck.
    • Dwarven Battle Training - When you hit, apply weakness (4s ICD). Weakness you apply lasts longer.
    • Retaliatory Evasion (REWORK) - Field of the Mists (Hammer 4) and Dome of the Mists now reflect the projectiles back to its source.
    • Unwavering Avoidance - This one would work cool with Barrier on stability

    Adept:
    They are fine as they are. All (in my opinion) have some window to work.

    ADDITIONALLY HAMMER
    Since my Inspiring Reinforcement is a copy version of **Drop the Hammer*, i could see it being reworked into this:

    • Smash the ground creating an Echo-like effect around you. Similarly to Coalescence of Ruin - 3 times strike (900 range, 300 each strike)
    • Foes struck by first 300 range are Knocked down for 1,5s. Those struck by 600 range are Slowed or Dazed instead. Those struck by 900 range are Crippled.
      So: 0-300 range = Knockdown,
      300-600 range = Slow/Daze,
      600-900 range = Cripple

    So, tell me what you think about this idea. Does it appeal to you? Would you like to see some of these in-game?

  • No matter how you buff it, it will not help you against classes that can cheese their out of a fight. And those that don't need it got way more sustain or offense anyway.

  • inspiring reinforcement, needs at least 5-10 energy removed from it
    forced engagement needs break stun for it to be useful
    remove stun from the elite don't know why it on their
    the trait improved aggression is only useful for one skill for the whole profession and one trait it needs swapping
    (new trait) retaliation is 100% more potent. gain 2 secs of retaliation when u taunt a foe
    steadfast rejuvenation is pretty lack luster for a gm with its internal cd. maybe it should give a nice big heal (3000 base) on breaking a stun with no icd and grant 250 healing power.

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