Marked kills what roaming is left

The new reveal applied upon stealthing when marked kills what roaming there is left. Roaming is pretty much just ganking people running to their zergs now. That makes us rely heavily on stealth to commonly kite and evade multiple enemies. Towers with the watch tower upgrade, sentries, and now scrubs throwing target painters leaves me marked a good amount of the time. Stealthing is off the table for a good number of my encounters, which usually results in more people showing up and me getting nuked due to no stealth. If any dev reads this, it would be nice to remove the reveal when marked, it really just makes it easier for bad players to kill players whose classes give them stealth, I could see it being a benifit to prevent zergs stealthign, but thats it.

A combination of mobility and sustain always was a better defense than stealth after classes got reveal, marked just emphasises the point tbh.

hm... now apply your feeling for other classes that do not have stealth and effective reveals, and gank by stealth for all this years.

@"slimike.1693" said:it really just makes it easier for bad players to kill players whose classes give them stealth

And previously abusing stealth made it easier for bad players to kill players (like recent DE problem) in different situations, and I do not mean duel situations here. I like playing thief and the only thing that "marked patch" changed is that I don't start fights while there's watchtower around or sentry is still alive (wait till the guy moves away from him or kill npc if it's 3rd server colour). Just be more aware of your environment instead of mindless pushing Mark and then hoping for XX DJ or Backstab crit...

Oh I so love how salty thieves think it kills roaming now when the perma spotting balloon has been slowly killing smallscale roaming for people regardless of class since it was introduced because you cant even begin to attack towers without instantly being seen.

But no... now its a problem when you loose that precious perma stealth of yours.

I weep for you.

@foxof.8752 said:hm... now apply your feeling for other classes that do not have stealth and effective reveals, and gank by stealth for all this years.

Pretty sure there's no classes that don't have stealth that gank with stealth....

@Dawdler.8521 said:Oh I so love how salty thieves think it kills roaming now when the perma spotting balloon has been slowly killing smallscale roaming for people regardless of class since it was introduced because you cant even begin to attack towers without instantly being seen.

But no... now its a problem when you loose that precious perma stealth of yours.

I weep for you.

To be honest, they could take stealth from thief and I wouldn't care that much as long as it were compensated somewhere else (sneak attacks would need reworking for instance). It's much more fun to play DE with minimal stealth while lit up like a Christmas tree with infusions, and then have them complain DE OP when I'm not using any of the stuff that people complain about xD

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@"foxof.8752" said:hm... now apply your feeling for other classes that do not have stealth and effective reveals, and gank by stealth for all this years.

Pretty sure he meant "Now apply that feeling for the classes that do not have stealth or active reveales and have gotten ganked from stealth for all these years"

@Dante.1763 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@"foxof.8752" said:hm... now apply your feeling for other classes that do not have stealth and effective reveals, and gank by stealth for all this years.

Ah, my apologies then. Yeah, I get where you're coming from, that said if your awareness is good enough you will see the majority of these classes entering stealth before the spike, and honestly an attack that catches your opponent unawares should be devastating, otherwise what's the point. Note that I'm not defending permastealth at all as that does need toning down, but stuff like daredevil, mirage, scrapper/holo you can generally see coming before they stealth, so if you don't pay attention when solo that's on you.

Edit: also, surprise attacks shouldn't one shot people either. Combo attacks from stealth maybe, as long as they take 1s or more to trigger, but surprise attacks should force a heal and defensive skills but not one shot.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Oh I so love how salty thieves think it kills roaming now when the perma spotting balloon has been slowly killing smallscale roaming for people regardless of class since it was introduced because you cant even begin to attack towers without instantly being seen.

But no... now its a problem when you loose that precious perma stealth of yours.

I weep for you.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Oh I so love how salty thieves think it kills roaming now when the perma spotting balloon has been slowly killing smallscale roaming for people regardless of class since it was introduced because you cant even begin to attack towers without instantly being seen.

But no... now its a problem when you loose that precious perma stealth of yours.

I weep for you.

I don't know but I still find around the map perma retard brainless deadeye who just 25k malicious backstab me without any possible counterplay or animation.

Those cancers are still around.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Oh I so love how salty thieves think it kills roaming

now

when the perma spotting balloon has been slowly killing smallscale roaming for people regardless of class since it was introduced because you cant even begin to attack towers without instantly being seen.

But no...

now

its a problem when you loose that precious perma stealth of yours.

I weep for you.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Oh I so love how salty thieves think it kills roaming

now

when the perma spotting balloon has been slowly killing smallscale roaming for people regardless of class since it was introduced because you cant even begin to attack towers without instantly being seen.

But no...

now

its a problem when you loose that precious perma stealth of yours.

I weep for you.

they wont hit 25k with only 1 malice, therefor there is counterplay.

@MUDse.7623 said:they wont hit 25k with only 1 malice, therefor there is counterplay.the malice mechanic is a joke right now, so no there is no counterplay.IMHO it should decay much faster so it can't be kept for minutes while stealthed and reset when target changes. So it actually becomes a high risk high reward and not what it is now, a camper simulator with no counterplay.

@slimike.1693 said:The new reveal applied upon stealthing when marked kills what roaming there is left. Roaming is pretty much just ganking people running to their zergs now. That makes us rely heavily on stealth to commonly kite and evade multiple enemies. Towers with the watch tower upgrade, sentries, and now scrubs throwing target painters leaves me marked a good amount of the time. Stealthing is off the table for a good number of my encounters, which usually results in more people showing up and me getting nuked due to no stealth. If any dev reads this, it would be nice to remove the reveal when marked, it really just makes it easier for bad players to kill players whose classes give them stealth, I could see it being a benifit to prevent zergs stealthign, but thats it.

plllzzzz, the real roaming Killer is Stealth because Stealth mechanic in this game is so brokenly overpowered that it killed every class for roaming that cannot abuse this noobcarry mechanic. now with the marked mechanic its just a bit more fair. now Stealth abuser are in same Position like every other class. handle it.

there's no fightining in roaming for a long timethere's just ganking

My issue is that there was no "defensive" compensation to roamers especially for such a readily available stealth counter. That being said, perma-stealth needs to go especially from an offensive/gank side. Rifle Deadeye/Mirage/Soulbeast/Holo stealth openers are all still pretty insane still but those weren't toned down so the stealth nerf doesn't feel like it really deterred stealth ganking or its intended purpose.

Honestly, the middle ground is make revealed a power/condi debuff and allow stealth to be a strong defensive option (like invuln/distortion evade/block). Finally, Revealed should only be applied if you attack (or stomp) from stealth and not when it generically expires.

dang it......i've trying for a good 10 min to shed a tear but it......just.......will.......not......happen.......

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:they wont hit 25k with only 1 malice, therefor there is counterplay.the malice mechanic is a joke right now, so no there is no counterplay.IMHO it should decay much faster so it can't be kept for minutes while stealthed

and reset when target changes

. So it actually becomes a high risk high reward and not what it is now, a camper simulator with no counterplay.

i think you should actually try playing deadeye for a while ;)

and there is counterplay to any build in this game. that doesnt mean there is a 1 vs 1 balance, pretty much any fight favors one over the other often alot, but there is still options to counterplay wich often will lead to a better player with a disadvantageous build to win regardless.

Roaming is dead? Can't confirm. Roaming is pretty much alive on all servers I logged into over the holidays.

I'm enjoying solo roaming more now than before the change. Fights are more conclusive: They die or I die. Someone running off in stealth when losing happens less frequently, which is a good thing.

@Shining One.1635 said:I'm enjoying solo roaming more now than before the change. Fights are more conclusive: They die or I die. Someone running off in stealth when losing happens less frequently, which is a good thing.

I seriously doubt this is the case. Unless you're typically fighting nearby your own towers or sentries this change doesn't help any roamer (and if you're really a roamer you really don't fight in those areas that often).

I find the change had minimal impact on roaming. Solo or otherwise. See fewer thieves than before, though I suspect it's due to the de nerfs and not the marked change.

@Helly.2597 said:I seriously doubt this is the case. Unless you're typically fighting nearby your own towers or sentries this change doesn't help any roamer (and if you're really a roamer you really don't fight in those areas that often).I carry around Target Painters.

@Shining One.1635 said:

@Helly.2597 said:I seriously doubt this is the case. Unless you're typically fighting nearby your own towers or sentries this change doesn't help any roamer (and if you're really a roamer you really don't fight in those areas that often).I carry around Target Painters.

I'm not going to hide my disgust at this.

@Helly.2597 said:I'm not going to hide my disgust at this.It's probably the same level of disgust I have for those who run off in stealth when losing a 1 on 1 fight.

@"Widmo.3186" said:

And previously abusing stealth made it easier for bad players to kill players (like recent DE problem) in different situations, and I do not mean duel situations here. I like playing thief and the only thing that "marked patch" changed is that I don't start fights while there's watchtower around or sentry is still alive

So... just treat 1/2 or more of the map as out of bounds? Did you pay for the full game or 1/2 of it?

It's not just thieves that are effected. The majority of classes that are suited to roaming utilize stealth, even if its just a few seconds of it. It's not like players of these classes are welcome or particularly useful in large scale fights, roaming, havok and killing respawns is ALL they have to do. At the very least i'd like to see the 2s before revealed become 4s. The majority of stealth abilities are around 3s and its not like you can cancel your stealth to avoid the reveal. At 4s people would be able to use their one 'oh poop' stealth to reposition and get range without being penalized for using abilities their class was given.

I've said since HoT was introduced that watchtowers far too effectively destroys smaller groups trying to not zerg. I'd really like to see this upgrade moved to keeps or at least the range significantly reduced. So many people complain about zergs and map blobs but it has to be realized that all the over powered defensive nonesense pushes players to blob because anything else is just no fun anymore.

@Shining One.1635 said:

@Helly.2597 said:I'm not going to hide my disgust at this.It's probably the same level of disgust I have for those who run off in stealth when losing a 1 on 1 fight.

are they losing it if they do 'run off'?they might not be winning, neither are you.

IMO for the stealth user both target painter as well as the reworked trap are still mainly an issue when outnumbered, just like the old trap. in such a situation they are better than the old version, because against multiple targets 2s often wont be enough to stop their spamm + reposition.however i dont think they change much for 1 vs 1. builds that were already able to put decent pressure on the stealth abuser just waste time and make themselves vulnerable when trying to utilize a painter and builds that are not able to pressure the stealther, still wont be able to.

marked is not an issue in roaming because of its effects on stealth, but because of the marking on the map. it simply changes the way a roamer has to traverse the map. at launch you also could show your position if you wanted by killing dolyaks / sentries /camps, even just by pulling the sentry as you can see it on the map and people were looking for that (and battle marks for 5 players in combat instead of 25), but it was alot easier to also hide your presence as long as you didnt attack anything. now you have to spent more time fighting the envoirement than the players (for example taking a longer way not to get marked can quickly cost you more time than it takes to kill 2-3 players)