Siren's Reef with birds? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Siren's Reef with birds?

Question -- what should be the strategy when Siren's Reef has: Birds, No Pain No Gain and Adrenaline Rush?
Birds get extra bonus set of boons automatically from the start. And they don't seem to transfer to enemies (plus endurance doesn't regenerate fast enough before you get a new set of birds). Does this have anything to do with fact that you can't rally from any adds that are not "primary" bosses? When you're on the boat, I guess birds can't be transferred to other enemies as they are too far so you're out of luck -- you have to deal with birds, but dealing with birds means you can't shoot cannons, which means you get swamped with ghosts too soon (which you can't rally off off).

What's the proper way to deal with this with pugs? My initial group wiped around 7 times before disbanding. I really don't want to add yet another "just don't do this combo of newer fractal with these instabilities with pugs" to my list.

<1

Comments

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    First time playing fractals in months and we start with this new sirens reef. Worst experience I've ever had in any video game I've ever played. Will never play sirens reef again. It was with my guildies and we were all in discord as well. We are WvW players and do not run metabattle garbage, nor do any of us do perfect rotation spam skills off cooldown. Aka I'm playing an almost full zerk reaper. You start making fractals raids (which we DON'T do) then we have no content other than WvW.

    Give me a break... kitten is this kitten?
    https://imgur.com/LKZEKXb

    We tried for about an hour and a half to beat this and ended up disbanding and not doing any other fractals. No ascended gear in WvW or PvE for us now, nice.

  • Rodrick.1942Rodrick.1942 Member ✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    To op , the only way for this new fractal and especially t4 one is massive cleave damage from DPSer and overheal from healer , and not just that , you'll also need a good supporter like FB to pulse as much boons/utility like bubble as possible.

    Also when u on the ship , adds from south & north should be killed first before they group up and wipe u all out by range attack. Ask a support class to aid dps while he/she clear adds , others can focus on boss and nearby adds.

    The only way to git rid of birds is make dodge roll once , but we need to save more endurance to dodge wing/bomb or other kitten , so ask ur boob support to keep up defensive boons as long as possible.

    Although most people think we can min max output damage to melt boss down before wipe out, but this new fractal's design make this strategy useless because of ghost swarm. Take 2 good support class and clear adds before they group up while fighting boss is the way to go.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    First time playing fractals in months and we start with this new sirens reef. Worst experience I've ever had in any video game I've ever played. Will never play sirens reef again. It was with my guildies and we were all in discord as well. We are WvW players and do not run metabattle garbage, nor do any of us do perfect rotation spam skills off cooldown. Aka I'm playing an almost full zerk reaper. You start making fractals raids (which we DON'T do) then we have no content other than WvW.

    Give me a break... kitten is this kitten?
    https://imgur.com/LKZEKXb

    We tried for about an hour and a half to beat this and ended up disbanding and not doing any other fractals. No ascended gear in WvW or PvE for us now, nice.

    Respect the content and it will respect you.

    I do not often agree with zealex, but on this one I do. What point is there chest-thumping about being a great WvW player, but then failing at basic pve content by not adapting?

    Yes, the instability combination is quite deadly. No it is not unsolvable. I completed the daily fractals in a PUG group with mediocre dps but bringing the right tools for the trade:

    • Fractals were run with a Ren+FB support comp who were playing together (unfortunately both heal too so we were left with only 2 dps and a bs)
    • Dragonhunter power dps (me)
    • bannerslave warrior
    • Deadeye

    Once we reached the last boss on Siren's Reef, we gave the fight a few tries but were running into issues of not having enough cleave to get past 25%. Deadeye went Daredevil, and warrior went back to core (from spellbreaker). Still no success. I then switched to mercy scourge with a bit extra damage gear (would have gone full damage scourge but my damage gear on scourge is lacking the AR), put in some boon corrupt and done.

    Final composition for the fractal boss of Siren's Reef with Birds, No Pain , No Gain and Adrenaline Rush:

    • heal Renegade
    • heal Firebrand
    • Daredevil
    • core Warrior
    • semi heal scourge running half damage gear (Epidemic, Well of Corruption, Signet of Undeath, Ghastly Breach)

    Was this abusing triple supports? Sure. Could this have been done way more efficiently by bringing other DPS classes? Yes. Did we have 100% up-time on essential boons? Yes. Was it fun to come up with different ideas on how to tackle the situation? For me it was.

    Again, this was done in a PUG group of random players (except ren+fb who were from the same guild, not sure if on voice chat). I would expect a static or people who are on voice chat to come up with way better synergy and approaches (only limited by the characters and classes available).

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    Did this today, pugging as always. It's fine. Just need to adapt. After we got wiped a couple of times, we brought in reflects and we finished it. We /gg'd after every mini-boss in the ship though.

    Hi.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What point is there chest-thumping about being a great WvW player, but then failing at basic pve content by not adapting?

    ^ I mean, you really dig yourself a hole by saying you are a wvw player. Isnt the deal in pvp that from enemy to enemy things can be diff because they are humans instead of ai, so you have to abjust your aproach.

    Why would you be so against the idea of abjusting for pve encounters u may struggle in then?

    Because we arenn't going to play garbage PvE content that requires min/maxeed builds for the highest possible dps and "learn" (unlearn proper play) how to literally spam skills off cooldown in a set sequence. Fractals didn't used to require this and the kitten from raids has beyond seeped into fractals.

    But please, do continue bragging how good you are at spamming your skills. I mean I could just make a macro that does that . In no universe should a minstrels firebrand, a zerk reaper, a zerk thief, a zerk holosmith and a condi engi suffer so horribly in a fractal, as if it were a raid.

    If you defend this fractal then it's because you also do raids. In this game, or another - you do or have done raids. Raid community is something that should stay the kitten out of fractals. I'm starting to miss my mossman fractals with the stupid changes to fractals with this sirens reef and the new ridiculous instabilities.

    These changes are simply way too hard for what fractals should be. But hard isn't even the right word. The chaos fractal is "hard" but you can beat it with any comp by playing well. That is absolutely not true for this one.

  • Random CMs pug did it in like no time, birds were just annoying at the labyrinth phase. Other than that - totally free. It's funny how people want to do end game content with trash builds and comps. It's like expecting to drive over snow with your summer tires.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @Compleo.3182 said:
    It's funny how people want to do end game content with trash builds and comps

    So metabattle garbage only it is, then? Nothing else that actually does very good dps (but not the most!q!) is allowed. This is what everyone against raids doesn't want in fractals. You should NOT have to use optimal comp for fractals.

    And "random pugs" means nothing and is only an attempt to justify this fractal and new instabilities. That "random pug" could be your every day raid player using an optimal build who does perfect rotations.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What point is there chest-thumping about being a great WvW player, but then failing at basic pve content by not adapting?

    ^ I mean, you really dig yourself a hole by saying you are a wvw player. Isnt the deal in pvp that from enemy to enemy things can be diff because they are humans instead of ai, so you have to abjust your aproach.

    Why would you be so against the idea of abjusting for pve encounters u may struggle in then?

    Because we arenn't going to play garbage PvE content that requires min/maxeed builds for the highest possible dps and "learn" (unlearn proper play) how to literally spam skills off cooldown in a set sequence. Fractals didn't used to require this and the kitten from raids has beyond seeped into fractals.

    But please, do continue bragging how good you are at spamming your skills. I mean I could just make a macro that does that . In no universe should a minstrels firebrand, a zerk reaper, a zerk thief, a zerk holosmith and a condi engi suffer so horribly in a fractal, as if it were a raid.

    If you defend this fractal then it's because you also do raids. In this game, or another - you do or have done raids. Raid community is something that should stay the kitten out of fractals. I'm starting to miss my mossman fractals with the stupid changes to fractals with this sirens reef and the new ridiculous instabilities.

    These changes are simply way too hard for what fractals should be. But hard isn't even the right word. The chaos fractal is "hard" but you can beat it with any comp by playing well. That is absolutely not true for this one.

    Why should a team with bad builds and no idea how to play be able to complete the highest tier of pve 5 player content. What is your proper play you mentioned? Proper play is being able to achieve high dps while also being able to support and survive at the same time.
    If you would fail with that comp in t1 or t2 fractals I would understand it but T4 is supposed to be hard. It's too easy actually and doesn't require a healer 99% of the time.
    Condi engi suffers super hard if you dont follow a rotation. Your comp also doesn't have alacrity.
    But your comp had a way to achieve perma projectile defense. Did your FB use wall of reflection for example? Why are there so many mobs on that screen with so much cleave from Holo + reaper + thief.
    Playing wvsw doesn't qualify you for completing high level pve content. You need a different set of skills and mindset there.
    I bet you also complain about 100 being too hard because you can't complete it with spaming 1.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What point is there chest-thumping about being a great WvW player, but then failing at basic pve content by not adapting?

    ^ I mean, you really dig yourself a hole by saying you are a wvw player. Isnt the deal in pvp that from enemy to enemy things can be diff because they are humans instead of ai, so you have to abjust your aproach.

    Why would you be so against the idea of abjusting for pve encounters u may struggle in then?

    Because we arenn't going to play garbage PvE content that requires min/maxeed builds for the highest possible dps and "learn" (unlearn proper play) how to literally spam skills off cooldown in a set sequence. Fractals didn't used to require this and the kitten from raids has beyond seeped into fractals.

    But please, do continue bragging how good you are at spamming your skills. I mean I could just make a macro that does that . In no universe should a minstrels firebrand, a zerk reaper, a zerk thief, a zerk holosmith and a condi engi suffer so horribly in a fractal, as if it were a raid.

    If you defend this fractal then it's because you also do raids. In this game, or another - you do or have done raids. Raid community is something that should stay the kitten out of fractals. I'm starting to miss my mossman fractals with the stupid changes to fractals with this sirens reef and the new ridiculous instabilities.

    These changes are simply way too hard for what fractals should be. But hard isn't even the right word. The chaos fractal is "hard" but you can beat it with any comp by playing well. That is absolutely not true for this one.

    Why should a team with bad builds and no idea how to play be able to complete the highest tier of pve 5 player content. What is your proper play you mentioned? Proper play is being able to achieve high dps while also being able to support and survive at the same time.
    If you would fail with that comp in t1 or t2 fractals I would understand it but T4 is supposed to be hard. It's too easy actually and doesn't require a healer 99% of the time.
    Condi engi suffers super hard if you dont follow a rotation. Your comp also doesn't have alacrity.
    But your comp had a way to achieve perma projectile defense. Did your FB use wall of reflection for example? Why are there so many mobs on that screen with so much cleave from Holo + reaper + thief.
    Playing wvsw doesn't qualify you for completing high level pve content. You need a different set of skills and mindset there.
    I bet you also complain about 100 being too hard because you can't complete it with spaming 1.

    Every fractal except sirens reef is fine. Defending sirens reef by saying a comp with a quickbrand and a chrono and other very good dps classes onnlyy wiped 3-4 times and then barely finally won is not a good argument to not nerf sirens reef.

    Some of the instabilities are ridiculous, though.

    Also.... "require a healer" is a gross statement and it's sad that the game went into this PvE direction that completely unbalances WvW/PvP.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What point is there chest-thumping about being a great WvW player, but then failing at basic pve content by not adapting?

    ^ I mean, you really dig yourself a hole by saying you are a wvw player. Isnt the deal in pvp that from enemy to enemy things can be diff because they are humans instead of ai, so you have to abjust your aproach.

    Why would you be so against the idea of abjusting for pve encounters u may struggle in then?

    Because we arenn't going to play garbage PvE content that requires min/maxeed builds for the highest possible dps and "learn" (unlearn proper play) how to literally spam skills off cooldown in a set sequence. Fractals didn't used to require this and the kitten from raids has beyond seeped into fractals.

    But please, do continue bragging how good you are at spamming your skills. I mean I could just make a macro that does that . In no universe should a minstrels firebrand, a zerk reaper, a zerk thief, a zerk holosmith and a condi engi suffer so horribly in a fractal, as if it were a raid.

    If you defend this fractal then it's because you also do raids. In this game, or another - you do or have done raids. Raid community is something that should stay the kitten out of fractals. I'm starting to miss my mossman fractals with the stupid changes to fractals with this sirens reef and the new ridiculous instabilities.

    These changes are simply way too hard for what fractals should be. But hard isn't even the right word. The chaos fractal is "hard" but you can beat it with any comp by playing well. That is absolutely not true for this one.

    Why should a team with bad builds and no idea how to play be able to complete the highest tier of pve 5 player content. What is your proper play you mentioned? Proper play is being able to achieve high dps while also being able to support and survive at the same time.
    If you would fail with that comp in t1 or t2 fractals I would understand it but T4 is supposed to be hard. It's too easy actually and doesn't require a healer 99% of the time.
    Condi engi suffers super hard if you dont follow a rotation. Your comp also doesn't have alacrity.
    But your comp had a way to achieve perma projectile defense. Did your FB use wall of reflection for example? Why are there so many mobs on that screen with so much cleave from Holo + reaper + thief.
    Playing wvsw doesn't qualify you for completing high level pve content. You need a different set of skills and mindset there.
    I bet you also complain about 100 being too hard because you can't complete it with spaming 1.

    Every fractal except sirens reef is fine. Defending sirens reef by saying a comp with a quickbrand and a chrono and other very good dps classes onnlyy wiped 3-4 times and then barely finally won is not a good argument to not nerf sirens reef.

    Some of the instabilities are ridiculous, though.

    Every fractal besides Siren's Reef was face-roll easy today, as usual. You had a subpar comp and likely did not utilize all your comps abilities. Turns out, that won't fly when difficulty does ramp up even in pve. You didn't even bring boon rip or remove, something one of the instabilities specifically mentions....

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    Wasn't much fun. After about 5 wipes (which is more wipes than I have had in all the T4s I've run in the past 2 weeks combined) we had one player switch to a Condi Scourge and managed to eek out the win. Coincidentally the last time I had Siren's in T4, we also had to swap out one player for an epi Scourge. See Necros? ANET made a fractal just for you guys...and you say they don't love you.

    BTW, what is up with being attacked by birds while on the cannon? When you're supposed to clear the mines away from the boss with cannon fire, an important mechanic, but have to leave the siege to dodge out and deal with birds? Might want to look at that....

    Agreed it's quite ridiculous.

  • @Ruufio.1496 said:
    First time playing fractals in months and we start with this new sirens reef. Worst experience I've ever had in any video game I've ever played. Will never play sirens reef again. It was with my guildies and we were all in discord as well. We are WvW players and do not run metabattle garbage, nor do any of us do perfect rotation spam skills off cooldown. Aka I'm playing an almost full zerk reaper. You start making fractals raids (which we DON'T do) then we have no content other than WvW.

    Give me a break... kitten is this kitten?
    https://imgur.com/LKZEKXb

    We tried for about an hour and a half to beat this and ended up disbanding and not doing any other fractals. No ascended gear in WvW or PvE for us now, nice.

    I agree that Siren's Reef isn't a particularly enjoyable fractal. But it is nowhere close to being a 'raid'. I played zerk reaper as well, in a group with 2 pugs (guardian and bannerslave) and 2 friends (who used renegade and firebrand). You know what I did? I played the dedicated boonstrip. I brought boon corrupt and well of corruption, kept axe 3 as a third option and used those to boonstrip when needed. I didn't do perfectly -- there were times I got blown overboard or got attacked by birds, and wasted my skills because of the blind -- but we did it fine on the first attempt, and one of our pugs hadn't even finished the fractal before.

    I am nowhere near Snow Crows super elite mega hyper expadocious meta damage as well and yet I did fine in my role, and so did my team. Frankly, based on the (limited) perspective I got from your screenshot, you have no understanding of how a reaper can be used, given your utility set and weapon. The fractal isn't too hard, it's you who needs to 'git gud', as the meme goes. I'm kinda shocked too -- necros are the prime boonstrips of WvW, and are known for doing that, and it didn't even occur to you to do it?

  • @Bugabuga.9721 said:
    Question -- what should be the strategy when Siren's Reef has: Birds, No Pain No Gain and Adrenaline Rush?
    Birds get extra bonus set of boons automatically from the start. And they don't seem to transfer to enemies (plus endurance doesn't regenerate fast enough before you get a new set of birds). Does this have anything to do with fact that you can't rally from any adds that are not "primary" bosses? When you're on the boat, I guess birds can't be transferred to other enemies as they are too far so you're out of luck -- you have to deal with birds, but dealing with birds means you can't shoot cannons, which means you get swamped with ghosts too soon (which you can't rally off off).

    What's the proper way to deal with this with pugs? My initial group wiped around 7 times before disbanding. I really don't want to add yet another "just don't do this combo of newer fractal with these instabilities with pugs" to my list.

    Nobody's answering your question so let me try.

    Boonstrip is important in any 'No Pain, No Gain' fractal. Spellbreaker warrior, chrono or a necro (scourge or reaper) can play that role. For the birds, if you're lacking endurance make sure you have the mobility potion -- I've never really ran out with it, so I think you were just unlucky. For birds when on cannons you just need to be quick, dodge roll backwards then back on the cannon. I've never had a bird attack me afterwards when I did that, they have an aggro range.

  • eldrjth.7384eldrjth.7384 Member ✭✭✭

    I think a good strategy to beat siren's reef, esp If you get really bad instabilities, is to run a group with mainly condi firebrands with mantra of lore as dps. They will do a heap of aoe and tombs will reset after each mob dies and stacking that many condi removal will negate most of the damage, not to mention all the stability you will get. Maybe run sweet bean + refreshing drink too for more condi mitigation. If your group has got good coordination you can take wall of reflection too. Still waiting until birds,LL,out-flanked combination comes up for some seriously brokenness.

  • @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @Compleo.3182 said:
    It's funny how people want to do end game content with trash builds and comps

    So metabattle garbage only it is, then? Nothing else that actually does very good dps (but not the most!q!) is allowed. This is what everyone against raids doesn't want in fractals. You should NOT have to use optimal comp for fractals.

    And "random pugs" means nothing and is only an attempt to justify this fractal and new instabilities. That "random pug" could be your every day raid player using an optimal build who does perfect rotations.

    Just skip so supposed top tier 5men content and go for t3 till eventually you learn how to play the game. And you can run many builds provided you can manage your rotations that way that you actually are useful and not just a liability for a team. There are good comps and bad comps. You dont choose summer clothes in winter if you do not want to catch a cold. So choose in game accordingly. Ive never heard ppl complaining that they need top rotations for open world. Maybe open world is your playground? Play whatever you want, however you want there.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What point is there chest-thumping about being a great WvW player, but then failing at basic pve content by not adapting?

    ^ I mean, you really dig yourself a hole by saying you are a wvw player. Isnt the deal in pvp that from enemy to enemy things can be diff because they are humans instead of ai, so you have to abjust your aproach.

    Why would you be so against the idea of abjusting for pve encounters u may struggle in then?

    Because we arenn't going to play garbage PvE content that requires min/maxeed builds for the highest possible dps and "learn" (unlearn proper play) how to literally spam skills off cooldown in a set sequence. Fractals didn't used to require this and the kitten from raids has beyond seeped into fractals.

    But please, do continue bragging how good you are at spamming your skills. I mean I could just make a macro that does that . In no universe should a minstrels firebrand, a zerk reaper, a zerk thief, a zerk holosmith and a condi engi suffer so horribly in a fractal, as if it were a raid.

    If you defend this fractal then it's because you also do raids. In this game, or another - you do or have done raids. Raid community is something that should stay the kitten out of fractals. I'm starting to miss my mossman fractals with the stupid changes to fractals with this sirens reef and the new ridiculous instabilities.

    These changes are simply way too hard for what fractals should be. But hard isn't even the right word. The chaos fractal is "hard" but you can beat it with any comp by playing well. That is absolutely not true for this one.

    Why should a team with bad builds and no idea how to play be able to complete the highest tier of pve 5 player content. What is your proper play you mentioned? Proper play is being able to achieve high dps while also being able to support and survive at the same time.
    If you would fail with that comp in t1 or t2 fractals I would understand it but T4 is supposed to be hard. It's too easy actually and doesn't require a healer 99% of the time.
    Condi engi suffers super hard if you dont follow a rotation. Your comp also doesn't have alacrity.
    But your comp had a way to achieve perma projectile defense. Did your FB use wall of reflection for example? Why are there so many mobs on that screen with so much cleave from Holo + reaper + thief.
    Playing wvsw doesn't qualify you for completing high level pve content. You need a different set of skills and mindset there.
    I bet you also complain about 100 being too hard because you can't complete it with spaming 1.

    Every fractal except sirens reef is fine. Defending sirens reef by saying a comp with a quickbrand and a chrono and other very good dps classes onnlyy wiped 3-4 times and then barely finally won is not a good argument to not nerf sirens reef.

    Some of the instabilities are ridiculous, though.

    Also.... "require a healer" is a gross statement and it's sad that the game went into this PvE direction that completely unbalances WvW/PvP.

    I won't defend the fractal design. It feels like an open world boss with too much trash and chill spam. But it's not too hard. Most of the attacks can be reflected and condi cleanse is mandatory.
    Why does healer requirement unbalance wvsw?
    Also what is decent damage for you? I'm not sure if you know how much damage a meta build can do. T4 fractals should be balanced for meta builds and not random stuff or they would be even easier on meta builds.
    Did this fractal today without a healer and without a chrono. We died 2 or 3 times to the mobwaves before endboss but killed endboss first try.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    Need to dodge, dodge in enemy's aoe and the wind pushing thing, try to come back on ship, but wind don't want.
    Birds were horrible. + The mobs with protection, mights ....

    You have luck; we all was power.
    Druid was ... druid... Some heals, but not constant. No cleave no boon strip. "Chrono can you take null field or Domi ? War can you take SpB ?" No they can't. Chrono ragequit so I reroll FB support with Virtue to give a lil endurance boost too, and wall, resistance etc.
    "Someone has Scourge with boonstrip and epi ?" No. LFG for power DPS ... After one hour I've just ragequit, change PUG with my FB, did the boss at first try.

    Ah ah! It was a bit like that in my first group too, but at the end boss.

  • Theoretically you can use birds to blind a good amount of the adds that spawn throughout the entire fractal, but for some reason the birds can fail to transfer and end up spawning more trash to deal with. Both aren’t particularly tanky, but can deal some damage to glass and require effort to kill if not caught in cleaves/aoes. This becomes more of struggle though when you lack an aoe/cleave heavy spec like guard or necro (usually DH and reaper). This fractal doesn’t support mostly-single target and maybe some DoT dps-style specs very well.

    tbh and imo, if we argue about high tier meta strats, they probably nuke the boss(es) in way under a minute, making mechanics and specific build compositions kind of unimportant. However, the pug average from my experience, even if running meta, is nowhere near capable of achieving this.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What point is there chest-thumping about being a great WvW player, but then failing at basic pve content by not adapting?

    ^ I mean, you really dig yourself a hole by saying you are a wvw player. Isnt the deal in pvp that from enemy to enemy things can be diff because they are humans instead of ai, so you have to abjust your aproach.

    Why would you be so against the idea of abjusting for pve encounters u may struggle in then?

    Because we arenn't going to play garbage PvE content that requires min/maxeed builds for the highest possible dps and "learn" (unlearn proper play) how to literally spam skills off cooldown in a set sequence. Fractals didn't used to require this and the kitten from raids has beyond seeped into fractals.

    But please, do continue bragging how good you are at spamming your skills. I mean I could just make a macro that does that . In no universe should a minstrels firebrand, a zerk reaper, a zerk thief, a zerk holosmith and a condi engi suffer so horribly in a fractal, as if it were a raid.

    If you defend this fractal then it's because you also do raids. In this game, or another - you do or have done raids. Raid community is something that should stay the kitten out of fractals. I'm starting to miss my mossman fractals with the stupid changes to fractals with this sirens reef and the new ridiculous instabilities.

    These changes are simply way too hard for what fractals should be. But hard isn't even the right word. The chaos fractal is "hard" but you can beat it with any comp by playing well. That is absolutely not true for this one.

    I think i have like 30 li? never did half w5,6 so not really. I just thing it makes sense that if i want to have a good time i should at the very least be prepared to abjust my build. But i guess PvDing in wvw doesnt teach you that.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    @Bugabuga.9721 said:
    Question -- what should be the strategy when Siren's Reef has: Birds, No Pain No Gain and Adrenaline Rush?
    Birds get extra bonus set of boons automatically from the start. And they don't seem to transfer to enemies (plus endurance doesn't regenerate fast enough before you get a new set of birds). Does this have anything to do with fact that you can't rally from any adds that are not "primary" bosses? When you're on the boat, I guess birds can't be transferred to other enemies as they are too far so you're out of luck -- you have to deal with birds, but dealing with birds means you can't shoot cannons, which means you get swamped with ghosts too soon (which you can't rally off off).

    What's the proper way to deal with this with pugs? My initial group wiped around 7 times before disbanding. I really don't want to add yet another "just don't do this combo of newer fractal with these instabilities with pugs" to my list.

    How we did it yesterday.

    • Had 2-3 players going for the treasure during ship control. Toss and catch is better than escort/running the treasure back to the ship.
    • Man the cannons, dodge to get Birds off and get back on cannon. Ignore the juvenile birds spawned, they don't do much and dies quickly; healer's duty.
    • Boss fights, prioritize on not getting blowned off the ship. /gg after every boss(optional).

    First boss (Mad Jack), fairly easy just avoid the red circles especially if they're overlapping.

    • Ship control and Tressure.

    Second boss, ignore the boss(does nothing) and thin down the minnions first. Drop the red daze puddles away from everyone.

    • Man all 4 cannons, #1 push them back, #3 roots them and #2 for aoe kill.

    Capt.Crowe - ignore the boss(does nothing) and thin down the minnions first. Drop the red daze puddles away from everyone. Have at least 1 person stacked for green.

    All 3 Bosses are harmless, focus on not getting blown off the yacht :tongue: and thin out the minnions. Having reflects and condi cleanse is a plus.

    Ps: Can only hope PuGs to be cooperative and experienced; trial by fire. One thing I do notice in particular is PuGs tends to rush ahead and start the encounter :lol:.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now.

    Maybe because it happens way too often lately.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now.

    Maybe because it happens way too often lately.

    Or maybe people should stop treating games like an interactive film and stop crying whenever something is slightly off their comfort zone and forces them to adapt, which also happens way too often in the last years.

    Also fractals have difficulty scales, use them if you find it too hard or annoying. But that would impact your loot and we can't let this happen right?

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    Time to add "Golden Shield".

    Every time you get hit you lose 20 silver, no internal CD.

    L2P; it's gameplay; cry elsewhere.

    Would be incredible toxic but I guess people would still defend something like this.

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭

    I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • Derdzvero.7051Derdzvero.7051 Member ✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    @phs.6089 said:
    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    Absolutely agree with Phs and the rant here on Birds. Their behavior, damage AND frequency show that Q&A never actually played that part of the game. Or any other computer game to be honest since only RNG can save you from getting eaten alive there, while dodging the "challenging" boss and his minions. If there is Q&A team at all.
    Question to game designers: How exactly do those birds "require" clever party teamwork or adapting when ONLY dodging works?
    Are we now "challenged" to change traits in builds every 5mins?

    Let's say it openly - any content you guys release in last 1 year is having great artwork, very good level design and terrible gameplay, made by lazy coding. Customers' patience is not endless.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

    So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

    For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

    The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

  • Don't get mad and realize that we are the test server. This will be fixed after X amount of gem store updates.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

    So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

    For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

    The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

    An old man sits on bench and painfully moans. Another one next to him asks: What is the matter?
    -I'm sitting on a nail, you see.
    -Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?
    -It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • With a normal pug group it was not possible .'

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

    So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

    For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

    The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

    An old man sits on bench and painfully moans. Another one next to him asks: What is the matter?
    -I'm sitting on a nail, you see.
    -Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?
    -It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

    It's a little weird to say this as adapting would be moving away.

  • It's just funny that the guys saying "adapt" and l2p are the same people who spam LFG with lf1 healer and support.
    Big difference when back in the day you had to play your class well and not rely on someone to buff and heal you. Who really has the l2p issue?

    I mean people look for healers and support for recs. Then pat themselves on the back as if they were good players and come chest thump on the forums.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

    So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

    For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

    The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

    An old man sits on bench and painfully moans. Another one next to him asks: What is the matter?
    -I'm sitting on a nail, you see.
    -Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?
    -It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

    It's a little weird to say this as adapting would be moving away.

    Exactly, the analogy does not fit at all. It suggests the absolute opposite course of action.

    phs.6089, the nail is the new instabilities, the person recommending adapting to them is the one next to the person bothered by the nail, the person unwilling to adapt is people unwilling to adapt their builds.

    You're the old man who is unwilling to move in this case. To assume anything else is to misunderstand the current situation.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    @Shadow Order.7258 said:
    It's just funny that the guys saying "adapt" and l2p are the same people who spam LFG with lf1 healer and support.
    Big difference when back in the day you had to play your class well and not rely on someone to buff and heal you. Who really has the l2p issue?

    I mean people look for healers and support for recs. Then pat themselves on the back as if they were good players and come chest thump on the forums.

    Yes, I was playing fractals all the way since 2 weeks since their release. I was doing max level fractals before there was anything else besides rings and no imba loot.

    Would it be great to have instant kill mechanics back and instant kill agony? Sure, I was fine with that back then. I was also fine playing a mesmer or guardian in volcanic bringing reflects or learning when to dogdge all boss agony mechanics.

    To assume that people who recommend others adapt are unskilled or clueless is about as far a reach as one can take. Even back then, people were bringing the right tools for the job, sometimes even more so than now because not doing so meant not succeeding.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    Did everyone in complaining in this thread forget that most classes have long lasting projectile defenses, aoe blinds and I dunno... the possibility that focusing the adds and not the boss kills the adds? The screenshot above literally shows the most backwards logic I've ever seen. The adds are wiping us so let's NOT kill any of them. In fact let's only focus the boss so she spawns more of them so the adds kill us faster. Skilled gameplay with strong class knowledge and understanding of mechanics indeed.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    Yes there is. It's called T1. There are exactly zero instabilities.
    Birds DO challenge you as you have to watch out for the debuff and not waste dodges so you have endurance to remove the birds and dodge important attacks unless you run with a comp that has aegis like no tomorrow.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now.

    Maybe because it happens way too often lately.

    Or maybe because ppl like to complain.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    Yes there is. It's called T1. There are exactly zero instabilities.
    Birds DO challenge you as you have to watch out for the debuff and not waste dodges so you have endurance to remove the birds and dodge important attacks unless you run with a comp that has aegis like no tomorrow.

    That would have been a challenge if it was timed/depends on bosses HP etc. Not random. How exactly you plan your dodge on RNG? especially on dodge heavy encounters?
    Again, that is half of the problem, why those juvenile ravens work as fractal mobs adding to own RNG other instability, such as conditions,damage per boon, fire etc.

    You guys are defending it like most funboys would defending anything but you all know and can see this is the trash that was added into game just for a number.
    Copy-paste, not tested, not though over.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

    So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

    For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.
    For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:
    Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.
    There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.
    I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.
    There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

    'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?
    The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

    If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

    It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

    There isn't any scale without it.
    No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'
    gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

    copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.
    because there is no challenge just annoyance.

    I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

    The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

    An old man sits on bench and painfully moans. Another one next to him asks: What is the matter?
    -I'm sitting on a nail, you see.
    -Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?
    -It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

    It's a little weird to say this as adapting would be moving away.

    Exactly, the analogy does not fit at all. It suggests the absolute opposite course of action.

    phs.6089, the nail is the new instabilities, the person recommending adapting to them is the one next to the person bothered by the nail, the person unwilling to adapt is people unwilling to adapt their builds.

    You're the old man who is unwilling to move in this case. To assume anything else is to misunderstand the current situation.

    Not exactly. I'm the guy that won't sit on a nail at first place and would point to mater that made that bench that nail is not in it's place. Instead of sitting on it and trying to get used to it.

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @phs.6089 said:
    -Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?

    Also known as adapting.

    -It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

    Also known as not adapting and rather complaining for the sake of complaining.

    But its ok, surely what you were trying to say made sense right? Thankfully i get what you meant and ill try to translate it in a way that others will too understand what you were trying to say.

    -It's ok, if i moan loud enough god will remove it for me.

    There, now it makes sense... Oh wait.

  • Kahlan.7249Kahlan.7249 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    My thoughts on Birds - here is the nice and civil version:

    To me, Birds feels... idk, weird. Like. They definitely do add difficulty, nobody's disagreeing with that, but is it in the right way? And will it be more enjoyable for people in the long run?

    They force you to be a little more careful with your endurance and conserving dodges, and also (depending on the fractal, maybe with Siren's Reef or Twilight where there's a bunch of kitten on the ground) to position yourself better using directional dodges.

    So that's all fine and dandy, but for me personally, it's just.... the very fact..... that THERE ARE A BILLION FLYING BIRDS ALL OVER THE PLACE . It's messy, unnecessary, visual clutter, that is just unpleasant to look at in a game where visuals honestly do matter and affect enjoyability for a lot of people haha. <3

    Plus the fact that like, instead of being a mechanic in a specific encounter or a fractal where they fit the theme, they're a mistlock instability for... anywhere? There's no rhyme or reason, just birds flying all over the kitten around the place?? Why not squirrels, why not badgers, why not bats. Why the kitten birds??? Just pick anything that's random AF, since birds already 100% are. :')

    But yeah, it really breaks the flow of a fractal. ;__; The randomness of the visual mess, the randomness of the forced dodges, and also (I suppose this willl be better once people are used to birds) when other people don't dodge, you still see THEIR BIRDS ALL OVER THE PLACE loool.

    I realize this is a pretty bad analogy - inb4 someone feels the need to point out 23459304 differences there obviously are - but to me it just feels like if you're running around in WvW - whether you're by yourself, or maybe fighting someone, and then suddenly there's like, enemy wildlife all over the place running after you. Like yes, it is harder to get around (or fight someone) when there's a pack of wolves chasing you, but is that really what we're going for? What we enjoy in a game, what feels like ~the point~ of a fractal or game lol?

    and a slightly less charitable, less civil mention:

    tbh i wonder who the hell thought of birds HAHA. like, were they forced to come up with 50 new instability ideas to send in the next day??? that they put off until the night before... so it was 3:00 am and they had way too much coffee, and they were like "o kitten, i'm running out of ideas, what next?? uhhh BIRDS. gotta fill my quota of instab ideas!"

    like if i were adding instabs (and i'm sure literally everyone here would feel the same), i would never ever ever come up with birds as one of them x__x

    for real tho, think about it -- if you'd put high standards on yourself for coming up with interesting, enjoyable, and still challenging instab ideas, why not put it on the company that you're (ok not everyone but y'know what i mean) paying $$$ for?

    and yet just because something currently is and is not game-breaking, people are defending it as if it's a marvelous idea :')
    right?? like oh god, thank god they BLESSED US WITH BIRDS as the ONE THING that could elevate our playing level!!
    (ok, this was rather salty and unnecessary and strawman-y of me, but ya'll get the point haha)

    like it's obvs not un-liveable, game-ruining or anything, but imo it's still valid to criticize birds, or anything that humans with human limitations throw our way haha <3

    ~~~
    also, irrelevant, it literally does not matter for anything, but thought id mention it for funsies:

    fr though, i go on my ranger to do daily crafting, she uses a juvenile white owl, and every time i log in now i can literally feel my anxiety go up whenever i see my own pet lool

    https://imgur.com/O9C1Yu9

    LIKE, DOES YOUR HEART RATE NOT GO UP SLIGHTLY??

    you might not see it at first, just like in a fractal, and then o god-- BIRDS. there's always a point in the day when i almost dodge. almost. :P

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Kahlan.7249 said:

    My thoughts on Birds - here is the nice and civil version:

    To me, Birds feels... idk, weird. Like. They definitely do add difficulty, nobody's disagreeing with that, but is it in the right way? And will it be more enjoyable for people in the long run?

    They force you to be a little more careful with your endurance and conserving dodges, and also (depending on the fractal, maybe with Siren's Reef or Twilight where there's a bunch of kitten on the ground) to position yourself better using directional dodges.

    So that's all fine and dandy, but for me personally, it's just.... the very fact..... that THERE ARE A BILLION FLYING BIRDS ALL OVER THE PLACE . It's messy, unnecessary, visual clutter, that is honestly just unpleasant to look at in a game where visuals do matter + affect enjoyability for a lot of people.

    Plus the fact that like, instead of being a specific encounter or a fractal or whatever, they're a mistlock instability for... anywhere? There's no rhyme or reason, just birds flying all over the kitten around the place?? Why not squirrels, why not badgers, why not bats. Why the kitten birds??? Just pick anything that's random AF, since birds already 100% are. :')

    But yeah, it really breaks the flow of a fractal. ;__; The randomness of the visual mess, the randomness of the forced dodges, and also (I suppose this willl be better once people are used to birds) when other people don't dodge, you still see THEIR BIRDS ALL OVER THE PLACE loool.

    I realize this is a terrible analogy - inb4 someone feels the need to point out 23459304 differences there obviously are - but to me it just feels like if you're running around in WvW - whether you're by yourself, or maybe fighting someone, and then suddenly there's like, enemy wildlife all over the place running after you. Like yes, it is harder to get around (or fight someone) when there's a pack of wolves chasing you, but is that really what we're going for? What we enjoy in a game, what feels like ~the point~ of a fractal or game lol?

    and a slightly less charitable, less civil mention:

    tbh i wonder who the hell thought of birds HAHA. like, were they forced to come up with 50 new instability ideas to send in the next day??? that they put off until the night before... so it was 3:00 am and they had way too much coffee, and they were like "o kitten, i'm running out of ideas, what next?? uhhh BIRDS. gotta fill my quota of instab ideas!"

    like if i were adding instabs (and i'm sure literally everyone here would feel the same), i would never ever ever come up with birds as one of them lol.

    nd yet, just because something currently is, people are defending it as if it's a marvelous idea :')
    right?? like oh god, thank god they BLESSED US WITH BIRDS as the ONE THING that could elevate our playing level!!
    (ok, this was rather salty and unnecessary and strawman-y of me, but ya'll get the point haha)

    like it's obvs not un-liveable, game-ruining or anything, but imo it's still valid to criticize birds, or anything that humans with human limitations throw our way haha <3

    ~~~
    also, irrelevant, it literally does not matter for anything, but thought id mention it for funsies:

    fr though, i go on my ranger to do daily crafting, she uses a juvenile white owl, and every time i log in now i can literally feel my anxiety go up when i see my own pet lool

    https://imgur.com/O9C1Yu9

    LIKE, DOES YOUR HEART RATE NOT GO UP SLIGHTLY BC OF THAT?? you might not see it at first, just like in a fractal, and then o god-- BIRDS. there's always a point in the day when i almost dodge. almost.

    I think birds makes sense because they dont make sense. Fractals by design arent supposed to be stable and are supposed getting mixed up and being weird the deeper you go.

    So, birds!

  • Kahlan.7249Kahlan.7249 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I think birds makes sense because they dont make sense. Fractals by design arent supposed to be stable and are supposed getting mixed up and being weird the deeper you go.

    So, birds!

    Aha now that I think about it that's true tbh, you got me there! <3

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