Legendary Fractal Armor - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Legendary Fractal Armor

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  • tim.4596tim.4596 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @tim.4596 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    I would like legendary armor available through fractals (I don't think they should give envoy skin though, other skins that are easier for the artists to make would be good). I already have all 3 sets from raids, and I want more, but recrafting the same skins feels like a waste, and I wouldn't mind another way to earn more legendary gear with different skins. Then again, I have 1k+ LI sitting around, so I guess the real limit for me is the gifts of magic/might etc.

    Honestly, I wish Anet would just make more legendary equipment on the whole. Its taking them multiple years just to add a single legendary ring. Still no legendary amulet or 2nd accessory, and you can only get 1 aurora as it is. I think it would be pretty fitting for fractals to have legendary rings too, considering how important rings are to fractals.

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @phs.6089 c'mon c'mon don't ignore the numbers now, you came up with them in the first place
    raids legendary gear 10 weeks for first set
    wvw legendary gear: 21 weeks for non unique skins, 25 weeks for unqiue skins ( requires wvw rank 2000)

    how is that even close to "same amount of playtime"

    full raid clear (all wings) with a good group is 2-3 hours per week, so full legendary raid armor is 30 hours max
    for wvw, you need to complete diamond pip chest 6/6 25 times (1 time each week)

    do you know howlong that takes??????
    depending on your rank(every rank gives +1) and warscore this can take a kitten long time
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6gq770/wvw_skirmish_ticket_rewards_are_literally/

    ^ have a read on actual numbers before you sprout nonsense to get your easy-mode

    i know you won't so allow me to type it here for you

    raids: 2-3 hours per week
    wvw: 34.5 hours per week minimum (best scenario with outnumbered buff,lowest rank, least warscore etc) 54 hour maximum (least warscore, lowest rank and no outnumbered)

    how is that even close?

    it takes longer hour-wise (34.5 minimum for wvw) to do 1 diamond chest 6/6(ans you need to do it 21 weeks in a row) COMPARED to 30 hours max for raids, full legendary gear

    i'm literally in tears laughing

    I agree that wvw and pvp legendary armor takes a significant time longer. But you really discredit your argument by claiming that raids takes 30 hours max, if anything that's closer to the minimum, and it makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Its not as though new raiders working on their first set are full clearing in 2-3 hours. A players first150 LI are their slowest. Its definitely an accurate estimate for people in a static who have been full clearing for years, but its absurdly inaccurate for the first set. When people first start raiding they do all sorts of stupid stuff that wipes the group like not running out poisons at sloth. Beginner groups wipe for hours before they even get a kill commonly. The fact you don't know this is surprising.

    there are entire guilds dedicated to "train" new players for raids, so no it's not as hard as you try to make it sound.
    https://discord.gg/nZg52r3 for example, even the very first training run (t0) is easy 8 li per week, and you literally get carried through the bosses by experienced commanders and people teaching you eveything you need to know.

    pugs will be pugs, and you will allways have those that try to struggle on their own..and then they come to the forums, and here we are

    so yes, the 3 hours is more realistic then you were willing to admit

    Have to disagree, 3 hours is no where near realistic for a full clear of wing 1-4 for a new player. That's plain incorrect or we are talking about a person getting carried through ALL the fights by 8-9 other people consistently. Possible with a big guild or enough friends, certainly not common.
    Even with training raids, of which I am part often and/or lead enough of those myself, a new player will be forced to train quite a while before he can consistently kill all W1-4 bosses. 8 LI per week is more realistic (and doable with highly motivated new raiders as well as enough experienced raiders) but automatically extends the time needed for the first set to close to 20 weeks.

    2 Evenings of training (2.5-3 hours each) for 10-12 LI is a more realistic assumption for a new player (and even that is assuming people already are semi decent at their class and are not starting from scratch). Also after the first armor, LI requirements increase to 300 which again doubles the time required time gate wise.

    I don't think your numbers are accurate either, as if you want a true estimation of time, you need to acknowledge that player skill level will improve over time. More over if they have done a little bit of golem training for their rotation and prepared for raids, they should perform relatively well if the commander know what he/she is doing. Also in training runs key classes such as chrono or mechanic specific encounter classes seems to be done by more experienced players. Needless to also precise that a lot of those players might have already done T4 fractals before starting raids and therefore have a somewhat good understanding of their class and sometimes even can pull out a really good rotation. Websites such as Snow Crows and discrete are also fairly popular, and players would/should have geared up for the encounter.

    I think you are strongly underestimating the average new raid player.

    Even though the first time a training group goes into a training group they might take up 6-7h to obtain 10-12 li, the 2nd and 3rd time will be much better. Therefore the 3h per weeks estimation over 11-12 weeks might actually be much more accurate than yours.

    @tim.4596 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    I would like legendary armor available through fractals (I don't think they should give envoy skin though, other skins that are easier for the artists to make would be good). I already have all 3 sets from raids, and I want more, but recrafting the same skins feels like a waste, and I wouldn't mind another way to earn more legendary gear with different skins. Then again, I have 1k+ LI sitting around, so I guess the real limit for me is the gifts of magic/might etc.

    Honestly, I wish Anet would just make more legendary equipment on the whole. Its taking them multiple years just to add a single legendary ring. Still no legendary amulet or 2nd accessory, and you can only get 1 aurora as it is. I think it would be pretty fitting for fractals to have legendary rings too, considering how important rings are to fractals.

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @phs.6089 c'mon c'mon don't ignore the numbers now, you came up with them in the first place
    raids legendary gear 10 weeks for first set
    wvw legendary gear: 21 weeks for non unique skins, 25 weeks for unqiue skins ( requires wvw rank 2000)

    how is that even close to "same amount of playtime"

    full raid clear (all wings) with a good group is 2-3 hours per week, so full legendary raid armor is 30 hours max
    for wvw, you need to complete diamond pip chest 6/6 25 times (1 time each week)

    do you know howlong that takes??????
    depending on your rank(every rank gives +1) and warscore this can take a kitten long time
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6gq770/wvw_skirmish_ticket_rewards_are_literally/

    ^ have a read on actual numbers before you sprout nonsense to get your easy-mode

    i know you won't so allow me to type it here for you

    raids: 2-3 hours per week
    wvw: 34.5 hours per week minimum (best scenario with outnumbered buff,lowest rank, least warscore etc) 54 hour maximum (least warscore, lowest rank and no outnumbered)

    how is that even close?

    it takes longer hour-wise (34.5 minimum for wvw) to do 1 diamond chest 6/6(ans you need to do it 21 weeks in a row) COMPARED to 30 hours max for raids, full legendary gear

    i'm literally in tears laughing

    I agree that wvw and pvp legendary armor takes a significant time longer. But you really discredit your argument by claiming that raids takes 30 hours max, if anything that's closer to the minimum, and it makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Its not as though new raiders working on their first set are full clearing in 2-3 hours. A players first150 LI are their slowest. Its definitely an accurate estimate for people in a static who have been full clearing for years, but its absurdly inaccurate for the first set. When people first start raiding they do all sorts of stupid stuff that wipes the group like not running out poisons at sloth. Beginner groups wipe for hours before they even get a kill commonly. The fact you don't know this is surprising.

    there are entire guilds dedicated to "train" new players for raids, so no it's not as hard as you try to make it sound.
    https://discord.gg/nZg52r3 for example, even the very first training run (t0) is easy 8 li per week, and you literally get carried through the bosses by experienced commanders and people teaching you eveything you need to know.

    pugs will be pugs, and you will allways have those that try to struggle on their own..and then they come to the forums, and here we are

    so yes, the 3 hours is more realistic then you were willing to admit

    Have to disagree, 3 hours is no where near realistic for a full clear of wing 1-4 for a new player. That's plain incorrect or we are talking about a person getting carried through ALL the fights by 8-9 other people consistently. Possible with a big guild or enough friends, certainly not common.
    Even with training raids, of which I am part often and/or lead enough of those myself, a new player will be forced to train quite a while before he can consistently kill all W1-4 bosses. 8 LI per week is more realistic (and doable with highly motivated new raiders as well as enough experienced raiders) but automatically extends the time needed for the first set to close to 20 weeks.

    2 Evenings of training (2.5-3 hours each) for 10-12 LI is a more realistic assumption for a new player (and even that is assuming people already are semi decent at their class and are not starting from scratch). Also after the first armor, LI requirements increase to 300 which again doubles the time required time gate wise.

    I don't think your numbers are accurate either, as if you want a true estimation of time, you need to acknowledge that player skill level will improve over time. More over if they have done a little bit of golem training for their rotation and prepared for raids, they should perform relatively well if the commander know what he/she is doing. Also in training runs key classes such as chrono or mechanic specific encounter classes seems to be done by more experienced players. Needless to also precise that a lot of those players might have already done T4 fractals before starting raids and therefore have a somewhat good understanding of their class and sometimes even can pull out a really good rotation. Websites such as Snow Crows and discrete are also fairly popular, and players would/should have geared up for the encounter.

    I think you are strongly underestimating the average new raid player.

    Even though the first time a training group goes into a training group they might take up 6-7h to obtain 10-12 li, the 2nd and 3rd time will be much better. Therefore the 3h per weeks estimation over 11-12 weeks might actually be much more accurate than yours.

    I have trained over 20+ fully new to partially new raid players by now, with sometimes 1 or up to 4 present in squad. I believe I have a pretty good grasp of who and what skill level of player joins raids at this point in time.

    How many training runs have you lead or been part of?

    I'll be honest here, I've done a few Guild training run, however I've never done any pug training run, or any training run at all in which we had no say on players. In the training run that I did, it was comprehended that before coming into raids, the players would have prepared a minimum. Food + Utility were a requirements, exotic gear or ascended gear with correct stats (Berserker/Assassin are fairly easy stats to get) Viper for condi classes, and we would also have asked them to do a Golem rotation first (or at least make sure that they knew their rotation). If the player had not done any of that or couldn't get the gear, then they simply weren't ready for raids.

    The natural PvE progression for new players is generally Dungeons --> Fractals --> Raids. Going straight from dungeons into raids would be skipping a lot of steps. That would be the general pattern for people who are new to the game and generally interested into End game content such as raids.

    I understand that this pattern might not be true for a lot of players in GW2, as most players would probably skip fractals and dungeons altogether and do open world content story instead, and would have probably do their own min/max stats with stats such as trailblazer, commander, soldier or other stats based on their gameplay and what they thought right to go through the game content. Although gearing might be significantly more expensive to those players, as they may have to craft ascended items, instead of stat swapping, they should still be able to get a full set of armor of the correct stats combination before going into raids.

    If they are unable to get those stats then they are not ready for raids yet.

    The fact that you assume new players are already using the golem tells me not many or if at all. Using the golem to optimize your performance is NOT something you will see for fully new raiders or even semi new raiders.

    I originally included a comment in my previous post, which I then deleted as I thought it wasn't necessary to add it. But you wouldn't bring someone with insufficient agony resistance in a T4 fractal run, so why would you bring someone to raid who hasn't done the basic golem training rotation.

    But sure, there is greatly varying degrees of players. I'm sure there is some who have extensive experience of fractal CMs who start raiding on the average level of PUG normal groups. My personal subjective experience with fully new people has been different.

  • tim.4596tim.4596 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    Because of the rotation of the daily fractals and the instabilities, I believe that interchangeable stat&rune gear -legendary or not doesn't matter- is as necessary (convenient) for fractals as it is for raids. Adding a long term system to somehow upgrade the present ascended gear to become interchangeable would be a great idea.

    To be honest, not really. The instabilities rather encourage changing class or mostly utility skills and traits. There is still almost no reason to change stats in fractals.

    The most notable changes in fractals which are being done:

    • change utilities for more reflects on mesmer, guardians, engies if We Bleed Fire is present or on Volcanic
    • change base warrior banner slave to spellbreaker or take Shattered Concentration as chrono if a lot of boon pressure is present (other boon strip works too like Renegade)
    • switch to Scourge and cleave heavy classes for the end boss of Siren's Reef
    • take additional stability utilities for Chaos or in 100 CM
    • take some additional cc if no banner slave is present

    That's pretty much it. The only class which could be considered changing is guardian from power DH to condi Firebrand at the end of Siren's Reef. Any other minor stat adjustments can me done via trinkets if need be, but as I said, it's super rare is at all.

    The major difference between raids and fractals remains:
    Fractals still heavily favor power builds across the board. Raids alternate between power and condition builds as well as party setup (solo or double heal).

    While I am not opposed to get fractal armor added, this currently is not one of the reasons for it. At least not due to necessity. A proper build template system would be more useful than legendary armor for fractals at this point.

    I don't know other classes, but as a druid, I find myself often 1 shot killed because of some kitten inst combos in some fractals. For those cases, I really miss the option to add some more vitality/toughness to my gear.

    You can add toughness to your gear especially as druid. Feel free to run full minstrel gear if you prefer it as a druid. It's exactly the same as running full harrier. Damage as a healing druid in fractals is hardly noticeable and most party wouldn't care wether you do 2-3 or 6k damage.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tim.4596 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @tim.4596 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    I would like legendary armor available through fractals (I don't think they should give envoy skin though, other skins that are easier for the artists to make would be good). I already have all 3 sets from raids, and I want more, but recrafting the same skins feels like a waste, and I wouldn't mind another way to earn more legendary gear with different skins. Then again, I have 1k+ LI sitting around, so I guess the real limit for me is the gifts of magic/might etc.

    Honestly, I wish Anet would just make more legendary equipment on the whole. Its taking them multiple years just to add a single legendary ring. Still no legendary amulet or 2nd accessory, and you can only get 1 aurora as it is. I think it would be pretty fitting for fractals to have legendary rings too, considering how important rings are to fractals.

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @phs.6089 c'mon c'mon don't ignore the numbers now, you came up with them in the first place
    raids legendary gear 10 weeks for first set
    wvw legendary gear: 21 weeks for non unique skins, 25 weeks for unqiue skins ( requires wvw rank 2000)

    how is that even close to "same amount of playtime"

    full raid clear (all wings) with a good group is 2-3 hours per week, so full legendary raid armor is 30 hours max
    for wvw, you need to complete diamond pip chest 6/6 25 times (1 time each week)

    do you know howlong that takes??????
    depending on your rank(every rank gives +1) and warscore this can take a kitten long time
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6gq770/wvw_skirmish_ticket_rewards_are_literally/

    ^ have a read on actual numbers before you sprout nonsense to get your easy-mode

    i know you won't so allow me to type it here for you

    raids: 2-3 hours per week
    wvw: 34.5 hours per week minimum (best scenario with outnumbered buff,lowest rank, least warscore etc) 54 hour maximum (least warscore, lowest rank and no outnumbered)

    how is that even close?

    it takes longer hour-wise (34.5 minimum for wvw) to do 1 diamond chest 6/6(ans you need to do it 21 weeks in a row) COMPARED to 30 hours max for raids, full legendary gear

    i'm literally in tears laughing

    I agree that wvw and pvp legendary armor takes a significant time longer. But you really discredit your argument by claiming that raids takes 30 hours max, if anything that's closer to the minimum, and it makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Its not as though new raiders working on their first set are full clearing in 2-3 hours. A players first150 LI are their slowest. Its definitely an accurate estimate for people in a static who have been full clearing for years, but its absurdly inaccurate for the first set. When people first start raiding they do all sorts of stupid stuff that wipes the group like not running out poisons at sloth. Beginner groups wipe for hours before they even get a kill commonly. The fact you don't know this is surprising.

    there are entire guilds dedicated to "train" new players for raids, so no it's not as hard as you try to make it sound.
    https://discord.gg/nZg52r3 for example, even the very first training run (t0) is easy 8 li per week, and you literally get carried through the bosses by experienced commanders and people teaching you eveything you need to know.

    pugs will be pugs, and you will allways have those that try to struggle on their own..and then they come to the forums, and here we are

    so yes, the 3 hours is more realistic then you were willing to admit

    Have to disagree, 3 hours is no where near realistic for a full clear of wing 1-4 for a new player. That's plain incorrect or we are talking about a person getting carried through ALL the fights by 8-9 other people consistently. Possible with a big guild or enough friends, certainly not common.
    Even with training raids, of which I am part often and/or lead enough of those myself, a new player will be forced to train quite a while before he can consistently kill all W1-4 bosses. 8 LI per week is more realistic (and doable with highly motivated new raiders as well as enough experienced raiders) but automatically extends the time needed for the first set to close to 20 weeks.

    2 Evenings of training (2.5-3 hours each) for 10-12 LI is a more realistic assumption for a new player (and even that is assuming people already are semi decent at their class and are not starting from scratch). Also after the first armor, LI requirements increase to 300 which again doubles the time required time gate wise.

    I don't think your numbers are accurate either, as if you want a true estimation of time, you need to acknowledge that player skill level will improve over time. More over if they have done a little bit of golem training for their rotation and prepared for raids, they should perform relatively well if the commander know what he/she is doing. Also in training runs key classes such as chrono or mechanic specific encounter classes seems to be done by more experienced players. Needless to also precise that a lot of those players might have already done T4 fractals before starting raids and therefore have a somewhat good understanding of their class and sometimes even can pull out a really good rotation. Websites such as Snow Crows and discrete are also fairly popular, and players would/should have geared up for the encounter.

    I think you are strongly underestimating the average new raid player.

    Even though the first time a training group goes into a training group they might take up 6-7h to obtain 10-12 li, the 2nd and 3rd time will be much better. Therefore the 3h per weeks estimation over 11-12 weeks might actually be much more accurate than yours.

    @tim.4596 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    I would like legendary armor available through fractals (I don't think they should give envoy skin though, other skins that are easier for the artists to make would be good). I already have all 3 sets from raids, and I want more, but recrafting the same skins feels like a waste, and I wouldn't mind another way to earn more legendary gear with different skins. Then again, I have 1k+ LI sitting around, so I guess the real limit for me is the gifts of magic/might etc.

    Honestly, I wish Anet would just make more legendary equipment on the whole. Its taking them multiple years just to add a single legendary ring. Still no legendary amulet or 2nd accessory, and you can only get 1 aurora as it is. I think it would be pretty fitting for fractals to have legendary rings too, considering how important rings are to fractals.

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @phs.6089 c'mon c'mon don't ignore the numbers now, you came up with them in the first place
    raids legendary gear 10 weeks for first set
    wvw legendary gear: 21 weeks for non unique skins, 25 weeks for unqiue skins ( requires wvw rank 2000)

    how is that even close to "same amount of playtime"

    full raid clear (all wings) with a good group is 2-3 hours per week, so full legendary raid armor is 30 hours max
    for wvw, you need to complete diamond pip chest 6/6 25 times (1 time each week)

    do you know howlong that takes??????
    depending on your rank(every rank gives +1) and warscore this can take a kitten long time
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6gq770/wvw_skirmish_ticket_rewards_are_literally/

    ^ have a read on actual numbers before you sprout nonsense to get your easy-mode

    i know you won't so allow me to type it here for you

    raids: 2-3 hours per week
    wvw: 34.5 hours per week minimum (best scenario with outnumbered buff,lowest rank, least warscore etc) 54 hour maximum (least warscore, lowest rank and no outnumbered)

    how is that even close?

    it takes longer hour-wise (34.5 minimum for wvw) to do 1 diamond chest 6/6(ans you need to do it 21 weeks in a row) COMPARED to 30 hours max for raids, full legendary gear

    i'm literally in tears laughing

    I agree that wvw and pvp legendary armor takes a significant time longer. But you really discredit your argument by claiming that raids takes 30 hours max, if anything that's closer to the minimum, and it makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Its not as though new raiders working on their first set are full clearing in 2-3 hours. A players first150 LI are their slowest. Its definitely an accurate estimate for people in a static who have been full clearing for years, but its absurdly inaccurate for the first set. When people first start raiding they do all sorts of stupid stuff that wipes the group like not running out poisons at sloth. Beginner groups wipe for hours before they even get a kill commonly. The fact you don't know this is surprising.

    there are entire guilds dedicated to "train" new players for raids, so no it's not as hard as you try to make it sound.
    https://discord.gg/nZg52r3 for example, even the very first training run (t0) is easy 8 li per week, and you literally get carried through the bosses by experienced commanders and people teaching you eveything you need to know.

    pugs will be pugs, and you will allways have those that try to struggle on their own..and then they come to the forums, and here we are

    so yes, the 3 hours is more realistic then you were willing to admit

    Have to disagree, 3 hours is no where near realistic for a full clear of wing 1-4 for a new player. That's plain incorrect or we are talking about a person getting carried through ALL the fights by 8-9 other people consistently. Possible with a big guild or enough friends, certainly not common.
    Even with training raids, of which I am part often and/or lead enough of those myself, a new player will be forced to train quite a while before he can consistently kill all W1-4 bosses. 8 LI per week is more realistic (and doable with highly motivated new raiders as well as enough experienced raiders) but automatically extends the time needed for the first set to close to 20 weeks.

    2 Evenings of training (2.5-3 hours each) for 10-12 LI is a more realistic assumption for a new player (and even that is assuming people already are semi decent at their class and are not starting from scratch). Also after the first armor, LI requirements increase to 300 which again doubles the time required time gate wise.

    I don't think your numbers are accurate either, as if you want a true estimation of time, you need to acknowledge that player skill level will improve over time. More over if they have done a little bit of golem training for their rotation and prepared for raids, they should perform relatively well if the commander know what he/she is doing. Also in training runs key classes such as chrono or mechanic specific encounter classes seems to be done by more experienced players. Needless to also precise that a lot of those players might have already done T4 fractals before starting raids and therefore have a somewhat good understanding of their class and sometimes even can pull out a really good rotation. Websites such as Snow Crows and discrete are also fairly popular, and players would/should have geared up for the encounter.

    I think you are strongly underestimating the average new raid player.

    Even though the first time a training group goes into a training group they might take up 6-7h to obtain 10-12 li, the 2nd and 3rd time will be much better. Therefore the 3h per weeks estimation over 11-12 weeks might actually be much more accurate than yours.

    I have trained over 20+ fully new to partially new raid players by now, with sometimes 1 or up to 4 present in squad. I believe I have a pretty good grasp of who and what skill level of player joins raids at this point in time.

    How many training runs have you lead or been part of?

    I'll be honest here, I've done a few Guild training run, however I've never done any pug training run, or any training run at all in which we had no say on players. In the training run that I did, it was comprehended that before coming into raids, the players would have prepared a minimum. Food + Utility were a requirements, exotic gear or ascended gear with correct stats (Berserker/Assassin are fairly easy stats to get) Viper for condi classes, and we would also have asked them to do a Golem rotation first (or at least make sure that they knew their rotation). If the player had not done any of that or couldn't get the gear, then they simply weren't ready for raids.

    The natural PvE progression for new players is generally Dungeons --> Fractals --> Raids. Going straight from dungeons into raids would be skipping a lot of steps. That would be the general pattern for people who are new to the game and generally interested into End game content such as raids.

    I understand that this pattern might not be true for a lot of players in GW2, as most players would probably skip fractals and dungeons altogether and do open world content story instead, and would have probably do their own min/max stats with stats such as trailblazer, commander, soldier or other stats based on their gameplay and what they thought right to go through the game content. Although gearing might be significantly more expensive to those players, as they may have to craft ascended items, instead of stat swapping, they should still be able to get a full set of armor of the correct stats combination before going into raids.

    If they are unable to get those stats then they are not ready for raids yet.

    The fact that you assume new players are already using the golem tells me not many or if at all. Using the golem to optimize your performance is NOT something you will see for fully new raiders or even semi new raiders.

    I originally included a comment in my previous post, which I then deleted as I thought it wasn't necessary to add it. But you wouldn't bring someone with insufficient agony resistance in a T4 fractal run, so why would you bring someone to raid who hasn't done the basic golem training rotation.

    But sure, there is greatly varying degrees of players. I'm sure there is some who have extensive experience of fractal CMs who start raiding on the average level of PUG normal groups. My personal subjective experience with fully new people has been different.

    While I would agree with everything you said, telling people to get ready is simply often not an option. Most won't come back. The best approach is to take them along and have them experience the content and then explain fundamentals to them.

    That in turn costs time, and will not always be successful on top of that. I did mention this in a different thread while ranting. That is the level of player one has to consider though when talking about raid beginners, because that's the level most people begin raiding today.

    The first 50 -150 LI will take most people longer than the next 300. Unless the person gets carried for a majority of the raid wings, you won't see more then maybe 7-8 LI per week as new player. Even that assumes a guild squad and not a full training PUG run.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭

    @tim.4596 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    Because of the rotation of the daily fractals and the instabilities, I believe that interchangeable stat&rune gear -legendary or not doesn't matter- is as necessary (convenient) for fractals as it is for raids. Adding a long term system to somehow upgrade the present ascended gear to become interchangeable would be a great idea.

    To be honest, not really. The instabilities rather encourage changing class or mostly utility skills and traits. There is still almost no reason to change stats in fractals.

    The most notable changes in fractals which are being done:

    • change utilities for more reflects on mesmer, guardians, engies if We Bleed Fire is present or on Volcanic
    • change base warrior banner slave to spellbreaker or take Shattered Concentration as chrono if a lot of boon pressure is present (other boon strip works too like Renegade)
    • switch to Scourge and cleave heavy classes for the end boss of Siren's Reef
    • take additional stability utilities for Chaos or in 100 CM
    • take some additional cc if no banner slave is present

    That's pretty much it. The only class which could be considered changing is guardian from power DH to condi Firebrand at the end of Siren's Reef. Any other minor stat adjustments can me done via trinkets if need be, but as I said, it's super rare is at all.

    The major difference between raids and fractals remains:
    Fractals still heavily favor power builds across the board. Raids alternate between power and condition builds as well as party setup (solo or double heal).

    While I am not opposed to get fractal armor added, this currently is not one of the reasons for it. At least not due to necessity. A proper build template system would be more useful than legendary armor for fractals at this point.

    I don't know other classes, but as a druid, I find myself often 1 shot killed because of some kitten inst combos in some fractals. For those cases, I really miss the option to add some more vitality/toughness to my gear.

    You can add toughness to your gear especially as druid. Feel free to run full minstrel gear if you prefer it as a druid. It's exactly the same as running full harrier. Damage as a healing druid in fractals is hardly noticeable and most party wouldn't care wether you do 2-3 or 6k damage.

    Well, you can say the same for raiding druids, but that is not the point. In fact, if you gear your toon following snowcrows info you hardly will need a stat swap while raiding, and yet you have the chance to do it with you shiny armor. I'm just pointing out that T4 and CM fractal players would take advantage of that feature also, without the shiny aspect.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2019

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @tim.4596 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    Because of the rotation of the daily fractals and the instabilities, I believe that interchangeable stat&rune gear -legendary or not doesn't matter- is as necessary (convenient) for fractals as it is for raids. Adding a long term system to somehow upgrade the present ascended gear to become interchangeable would be a great idea.

    To be honest, not really. The instabilities rather encourage changing class or mostly utility skills and traits. There is still almost no reason to change stats in fractals.

    The most notable changes in fractals which are being done:

    • change utilities for more reflects on mesmer, guardians, engies if We Bleed Fire is present or on Volcanic
    • change base warrior banner slave to spellbreaker or take Shattered Concentration as chrono if a lot of boon pressure is present (other boon strip works too like Renegade)
    • switch to Scourge and cleave heavy classes for the end boss of Siren's Reef
    • take additional stability utilities for Chaos or in 100 CM
    • take some additional cc if no banner slave is present

    That's pretty much it. The only class which could be considered changing is guardian from power DH to condi Firebrand at the end of Siren's Reef. Any other minor stat adjustments can me done via trinkets if need be, but as I said, it's super rare is at all.

    The major difference between raids and fractals remains:
    Fractals still heavily favor power builds across the board. Raids alternate between power and condition builds as well as party setup (solo or double heal).

    While I am not opposed to get fractal armor added, this currently is not one of the reasons for it. At least not due to necessity. A proper build template system would be more useful than legendary armor for fractals at this point.

    I don't know other classes, but as a druid, I find myself often 1 shot killed because of some kitten inst combos in some fractals. For those cases, I really miss the option to add some more vitality/toughness to my gear.

    You can add toughness to your gear especially as druid. Feel free to run full minstrel gear if you prefer it as a druid. It's exactly the same as running full harrier. Damage as a healing druid in fractals is hardly noticeable and most party wouldn't care wether you do 2-3 or 6k damage.

    Well, you can say the same for raiding druids, but that is not the point. In fact, if you gear your toon following snowcrows info you hardly will need a stat swap while raiding, and yet you have the chance to do it with you shiny armor. I'm just pointing out that T4 and CM fractal players would take advantage of that feature also, without the shiny aspect.

    if only you had to statswap in fractals, which you don't
    you change utilities, at best and even then 99% of the pugs don't bother

    because a site says so, totally disregarding the fact that said site is

    1) for raids, not for fractals
    2) for organised groups, to complete each other

    not for a random reaper that uses full soldiers gear and is allready happy he didn't die once

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @tim.4596 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    Because of the rotation of the daily fractals and the instabilities, I believe that interchangeable stat&rune gear -legendary or not doesn't matter- is as necessary (convenient) for fractals as it is for raids. Adding a long term system to somehow upgrade the present ascended gear to become interchangeable would be a great idea.

    To be honest, not really. The instabilities rather encourage changing class or mostly utility skills and traits. There is still almost no reason to change stats in fractals.

    The most notable changes in fractals which are being done:

    • change utilities for more reflects on mesmer, guardians, engies if We Bleed Fire is present or on Volcanic
    • change base warrior banner slave to spellbreaker or take Shattered Concentration as chrono if a lot of boon pressure is present (other boon strip works too like Renegade)
    • switch to Scourge and cleave heavy classes for the end boss of Siren's Reef
    • take additional stability utilities for Chaos or in 100 CM
    • take some additional cc if no banner slave is present

    That's pretty much it. The only class which could be considered changing is guardian from power DH to condi Firebrand at the end of Siren's Reef. Any other minor stat adjustments can me done via trinkets if need be, but as I said, it's super rare is at all.

    The major difference between raids and fractals remains:
    Fractals still heavily favor power builds across the board. Raids alternate between power and condition builds as well as party setup (solo or double heal).

    While I am not opposed to get fractal armor added, this currently is not one of the reasons for it. At least not due to necessity. A proper build template system would be more useful than legendary armor for fractals at this point.

    I don't know other classes, but as a druid, I find myself often 1 shot killed because of some kitten inst combos in some fractals. For those cases, I really miss the option to add some more vitality/toughness to my gear.

    You can add toughness to your gear especially as druid. Feel free to run full minstrel gear if you prefer it as a druid. It's exactly the same as running full harrier. Damage as a healing druid in fractals is hardly noticeable and most party wouldn't care wether you do 2-3 or 6k damage.

    Well, you can say the same for raiding druids, but that is not the point. In fact, if you gear your toon following snowcrows info you hardly will need a stat swap while raiding, and yet you have the chance to do it with you shiny armor. I'm just pointing out that T4 and CM fractal players would take advantage of that feature also, without the shiny aspect.

    Druid maybe (where it's mostly a player skill issue) , chrono (or other tanks) and dps are absolutely affected by Stat swapping in raids.

    There simply is a few machnics in raids which benefit Stat swapping directly. One being the actual benefit to condition versus power damage and vice versa depending on encounter. The other being toughness based tanking. Both of which are not present in fractals.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2019

    @lare.5129 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    But if your looking to use arc build templates to swap back in forth quickly, for example power bs to condi bs, that just isn't going to work.

    for this fast swap peopel have 2 diferent character slots, and for fast swap make relog. No leg needed.

    And ? How is that relevant? Your original point was that fractals already have, 'leg value' trinkets. And my point was that, no they don't, because mist trinket stat resetting doesn't incorporate into arc build templates.

    @lare.5129 said:

    Also amulet would come from pvp not wvw, since amulets are the armor/trinket you wear in pvp.

    when we say amulet - we mean necklage, it don'y have any tie wiht spvp amulet.

    kitten is a necklage? In pve we have amulets:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amulet

    And in pvp, we only have access to amulets:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Build#Amulets

    Do you actually play this game?

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And here i am, hoping Anet release obsidian armor skins in wvw/pvp, thus making a truly legendary skinset for those competitive modes (obdisian weapons are already there)...

  • Aeon.4583Aeon.4583 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:

    Attunment 4 will take one year to reach, even more without CMs.

    3/5 most people in my fractal parties have 4 lv Attunment and stats infusions included .. This is today, not after "years"

    That only means those 3\5 people been playing fractals for years, before today.
    I am myself reaching level3, with no legendary armor so far. I simply have no time for raids, not interested in PvP, and god save me from farming legendary armors in WvW.
    Atleast some kind of appreciation to Fractal players can be a good thing.

    Unlike Dungeons, Fractal currency cannot be farmed via reward tracks. Only Fractal Daily, CMs and end-chests.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Atleast some kind of appreciation to Fractal players can be a good thing.

    Yeah because being one of the best gold farms, ascended gear provider and having legy backpiece, infusions and weapon skins arent appreciating players enough..

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @Shaogin.2679 said:
    due to my low WvW rank and raids being difficult to work into my schedule. I don't care about new armor skins or anything. I just want basic legendary armor that I can grind for in fractals so I can play the game mode I enjoy the most more.

    That's only the Mistforged version you need hell a lot of ranks, basically take years
    Triumph Hero version https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triumphant_Hero's_armor

    Not going for mistforged version. At low ranks, you get less pips per tick, which means you have to spend much more time in WvW to be able to afford everything. Went through and calculated the costs and minimum time required and it wound up like this:

    • Raids - Fastest way to obtain legendary armor, though also the most difficult.
    • sPvP - Second fastest way to obtain Legendary armor and relatively easy.
    • WvW - Longest route to obtaining Legendary armor at lower ranks. However, it is by far the easiest since you can pretty much afk while farming pips.

    Doc Von Doom

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    no to fractal legendary armor
    yes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

    there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

    legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

    PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.
    Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

    Why shouldnt it be rare?

  • Aeon.4583Aeon.4583 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Atleast some kind of appreciation to Fractal players can be a good thing.

    Yeah because being one of the best gold farms, ascended gear provider and having legy backpiece, infusions and weapon skins arent appreciating players enough..

    I would trade my whole bank tab filled with all kind of ascended chests for just one legendary armor piece, without even thinking...

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    no to fractal legendary armor
    yes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

    there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

    legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

    PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.
    Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

    Why shouldnt it be rare?

    Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.
    Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.
    Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    no to fractal legendary armor
    yes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

    there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

    legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

    PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.
    Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

    Why shouldnt it be rare?

    Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.
    Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.
    Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

    How many ppl have legendary pvp armor that its rare?

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    no to fractal legendary armor
    yes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

    there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

    legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

    PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.
    Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

    Why shouldnt it be rare?

    Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.
    Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.
    Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

    How many ppl have legendary pvp armor that its rare?

    Why do I care of that? PvP armor's rare is only wvw shiny.
    What it does with PvE having only one way to get legendary armor?

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    no to fractal legendary armor
    yes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

    there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

    legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

    PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.
    Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

    Why shouldnt it be rare?

    Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.
    Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.
    Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

    How many ppl have legendary pvp armor that its rare?

    Why do I care of that? PvP armor's rare is only wvw shiny.
    What it does with PvE having only one way to get legendary armor?

    Wvw and pvp are 2 diff modes with very diff rulesets and balance. Pve is pve.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    no to fractal legendary armor
    yes to fractal armor skins both normal and gold

    there are allready 3 ways of gaining legendary armor, pve is covered by raids. don't need a fractal version aswell

    legendary should be "rare" not everyone and their mother having a full set and 8 weapons, they complelty lose their feeling that way

    PVE isn't covered by raids, not a big fun of silver and gold 2005 design.
    Rare? Why convenient item should be rare? Give me one good reason

    Why shouldnt it be rare?

    Because it's not rare for PvP, it's only rare for PVE.
    Because no other convenient items as legendary weapon are rare.
    Because it's not BiS it's QoL.

    How many ppl have legendary pvp armor that its rare?

    Why do I care of that? PvP armor's rare is only wvw shiny.
    What it does with PvE having only one way to get legendary armor?

    Wvw and pvp are 2 diff modes with very diff rulesets and balance. Pve is pve.

    I don't recall wvw and pvp being balanced for classes.
    It was PVE and PVP/WVW balancing
    Rullests? I guess so. WvW can be compared to Open World PVE
    Fractals to sPvP- 5 man mode.
    So we are back to PvP has 2 (4 ) sets of legendary armor, PvP players have a chose from which mode they want to get it.
    PVEers don't.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    I would add Legendary Weapons to it as well without special skins but swap able stats

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    Yet raiders do get it by playing the content they want. And they apparently consider Legendary Armor to be rewarding enough, or they would not bother defending its exclusivity. You also seem fine with that mode of getting it, while also liking the content itself. So it seems that only getting it by playing content you think is not worthy of it is not rewarding, but if you do like the content, it's okay.

    By the way, by your reasoning, we should place the legendary armor in a content you don't like to play, because only then it will be rewarding. So, i think... open world?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

    Other parts of game have that QoL. Double standards are double standards, I have nothing more to say.
    I'll wait for the day, when fractals population will be like raiding 10% as toxic as sPvP and as chaotic as WvW, maybe that day fractals will get QoL.
    Or I won't, Ill be playing something else instead.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

    Other parts of game have that QoL. Double standards are double standards, I have nothing more to say.
    I'll wait for the day, when fractals population will be like raiding 10% as toxic as sPvP and as chaotic as WvW, maybe that day fractals will get QoL.
    Or I won't, Ill be playing something else instead.

    As much as I'm for an additional legendary PvE armor I'm really against the fact it should come to fractals (only). It was stated before: A huge part of the relevant player base is playing both so the armor still would be very exclusive to a small proportion.
    In addition the fractal player base has the same amount of toxicity and chaos as you mentioned for raids and WvW. It just depends on the groups you are joining but that also applies to raids.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

    Other parts of game have that QoL. Double standards are double standards, I have nothing more to say.
    I'll wait for the day, when fractals population will be like raiding 10% as toxic as sPvP and as chaotic as WvW, maybe that day fractals will get QoL.
    Or I won't, Ill be playing something else instead.

    As much as I'm for an additional legendary PvE armor I'm really against the fact it should come to fractals (only). It was stated before: A huge part of the relevant player base is playing both so the armor still would be very exclusive to a small proportion.
    In addition the fractal player base has the same amount of toxicity and chaos as you mentioned for raids and WvW. It just depends on the groups you are joining but that also applies to raids.

    Hell, that applies to ow as well.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

    Currently it's raiders that are being rewarded with this QoL for playing what they want, how they want. In your words that would make this "qol thingy" not rewarding for other parts of the game already. And yet, i don't see raiders complaining about it, so i must assume they consider it to be perfectly fine.
    Well, if it's perfectly fine in this case, it will be perfectly fine in all other cases as well.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    Yet raiders do get it by playing the content they want. And they apparently consider Legendary Armor to be rewarding enough, or they would not bother defending its exclusivity. You also seem fine with that mode of getting it, while also liking the content itself. So it seems that only getting it by playing content you think is not worthy of it is not rewarding, but if you do like the content, it's okay.

    By the way, by your reasoning, we should place the legendary armor in a content you don't like to play, because only then it will be rewarding. So, i think... open world?

    Right now you need openworld collections for raid legendary armor. I would never went there if i wasnt required to. Also i learned about raids from legendary armor collection and that was why i started raiding.
    Also fractals are much more rewarding then raids goldwise while raids provide quality of life rewards like legendary armor and white mantle portal device.
    If fractals get those rewards then i think it would be fair to get 10g for each raidboss so you get similar gold value in a week

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

    Currently it's raiders that are being rewarded with this QoL for playing what they want, how they want. In your words that would make this "qol thingy" not rewarding for other parts of the game already. And yet, i don't see raiders complaining about it, so i must assume they consider it to be perfectly fine.
    Well, if it's perfectly fine in this case, it will be perfectly fine in all other cases as well.

    Its fine because raids are not as proffitable as fractals or ow farm. Qol rewards compensate this fact.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    Yet raiders do get it by playing the content they want. And they apparently consider Legendary Armor to be rewarding enough, or they would not bother defending its exclusivity. You also seem fine with that mode of getting it, while also liking the content itself. So it seems that only getting it by playing content you think is not worthy of it is not rewarding, but if you do like the content, it's okay.

    By the way, by your reasoning, we should place the legendary armor in a content you don't like to play, because only then it will be rewarding. So, i think... open world?

    Right now you need openworld collections for raid legendary armor. I would never went there if i wasnt required to. Also i learned about raids from legendary armor collection and that was why i started raiding.
    Also fractals are much more rewarding then raids goldwise while raids provide quality of life rewards like legendary armor and white mantle portal device.
    If fractals get those rewards then i think it would be fair to get 10g for each raidboss so you get similar gold value in a week

    By that logic one could also demand to get the same amount from doing Fractals just once a week like they do from Raids.
    It doesn't really make sense to compare daily content with weekly content in terms of rewards earned per week.

    Not that I would mind Raid rewards being increased slightly, although 10g seems way too much.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • @Asum.4960 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    Yet raiders do get it by playing the content they want. And they apparently consider Legendary Armor to be rewarding enough, or they would not bother defending its exclusivity. You also seem fine with that mode of getting it, while also liking the content itself. So it seems that only getting it by playing content you think is not worthy of it is not rewarding, but if you do like the content, it's okay.

    By the way, by your reasoning, we should place the legendary armor in a content you don't like to play, because only then it will be rewarding. So, i think... open world?

    Right now you need openworld collections for raid legendary armor. I would never went there if i wasnt required to. Also i learned about raids from legendary armor collection and that was why i started raiding.
    Also fractals are much more rewarding then raids goldwise while raids provide quality of life rewards like legendary armor and white mantle portal device.
    If fractals get those rewards then i think it would be fair to get 10g for each raidboss so you get similar gold value in a week

    By that logic one could also demand to get the same amount from doing Fractals just once a week like they do from Raids.
    It doesn't really make sense to compare daily content with weekly content in terms of rewards earned per week.

    Not that I would mind Raid rewards being increased slightly, although 10g seems way too much.

    10g per boss is still less gold per week then doing fractals. How many minutes do you need to complete t4+recomended? 45 minutes? So its 5 hours and 15 minutes weekly. You FC faster but you can also do fractals faster

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    Yet raiders do get it by playing the content they want. And they apparently consider Legendary Armor to be rewarding enough, or they would not bother defending its exclusivity. You also seem fine with that mode of getting it, while also liking the content itself. So it seems that only getting it by playing content you think is not worthy of it is not rewarding, but if you do like the content, it's okay.

    By the way, by your reasoning, we should place the legendary armor in a content you don't like to play, because only then it will be rewarding. So, i think... open world?

    Right now you need openworld collections for raid legendary armor. I would never went there if i wasnt required to. Also i learned about raids from legendary armor collection and that was why i started raiding.
    Also fractals are much more rewarding then raids goldwise while raids provide quality of life rewards like legendary armor and white mantle portal device.
    If fractals get those rewards then i think it would be fair to get 10g for each raidboss so you get similar gold value in a week

    By that logic one could also demand to get the same amount from doing Fractals just once a week like they do from Raids.
    It doesn't really make sense to compare daily content with weekly content in terms of rewards earned per week.

    Not that I would mind Raid rewards being increased slightly, although 10g seems way too much.

    10g per boss is still less gold per week then doing fractals. How many minutes do you need to complete t4+recomended? 45 minutes? So its 5 hours and 15 minutes weekly. You FC faster but you can also do fractals faster

    10g per boss, plus the exotics you get as well as Call of the Mists doubling Gold gain for a wing seems like it would be a lot more Gold each week than what I typically get from doing CM's + T4 + recs every day In a week, for less effort, condensed into one play session, instead of 7.
    And making a good 300g in 2-3 hours seems a bit extreme.

    In general I get the feeling Raids is the only content you enjoy or care about, and you just want exclusivity or mass rewards for content you already like.
    To come back to the topic of legendary armor, as someone who plays all the modes be it Raids, Fractals, PvP and WvW at times, I still really don't see what the issue is with providing more options for people.
    Proclaiming people just want free armor from other places when implementation and requirements haven't even been mentioned seems like a straw man as well.

    I firmly believe Raids is good enough content on it's own without having to hold Legendary armor hostage for PvE players to be played.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

    Currently it's raiders that are being rewarded with this QoL for playing what they want, how they want. In your words that would make this "qol thingy" not rewarding for other parts of the game already. And yet, i don't see raiders complaining about it, so i must assume they consider it to be perfectly fine.
    Well, if it's perfectly fine in this case, it will be perfectly fine in all other cases as well.

    Its fine because raids are not as proffitable as fractals or ow farm. Qol rewards compensate this fact.

    Clearly not fine. sPvPs get much more gold (some get more then fractal runner) then WvWs ever will. So double standards again.
    Raids have own compensation, don't you think? 5/5 infusion, unique skins, unique gizmo, possibility to get ascended items as drop and direct buy with no crafting whatsoever etc.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

    Currently it's raiders that are being rewarded with this QoL for playing what they want, how they want. In your words that would make this "qol thingy" not rewarding for other parts of the game already. And yet, i don't see raiders complaining about it, so i must assume they consider it to be perfectly fine.
    Well, if it's perfectly fine in this case, it will be perfectly fine in all other cases as well.

    Its fine because raids are not as proffitable as fractals or ow farm. Qol rewards compensate this fact.

    Clearly not fine. sPvPs get much more gold (some get more then fractal runner) then WvWs ever will. So double standards again.
    Raids have own compensation, don't you think? 5/5 infusion, unique skins, unique gizmo, possibility to get ascended items as drop and direct buy with no crafting whatsoever etc.

    Wvw has a mount i guess? Also, do raids give the infusions i thought u mostly got those from fractals again.

    Most of the things u credit for raids aply to fractals but fractals are daily with a much bigger number of gold per week. Also raids dont have a back piece, fractals have a backpiece.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    My reason why i dont want legendary armor from fractals is that it is another step in making the game easier.

    The difficulty of fractals wouldn't change if Anet decided to make a legendary armor set for that content.

    If this goes on i will leave because it will be too easy to enjoy when you get everything for free

    Noone's talking about giving anyone anything for free. Well, apart from you of course.
    And armor from fractals would be no more (or less) free than the one from raids is.

    If you get something by just playing what you want it is not rewarding

    I'm not asking for reward, I'm asking for convenient items. QoL.
    Again PvPer beg to differ, there are lots of sPvP players never step foot in WvW and vice versa.
    Why this double standard applies to PVE players?

    You are asking to be rewarded with qol for playing what you want, how you want.

    That would make this qol thingy not rewarding for other parts of the game.

    Currently it's raiders that are being rewarded with this QoL for playing what they want, how they want. In your words that would make this "qol thingy" not rewarding for other parts of the game already. And yet, i don't see raiders complaining about it, so i must assume they consider it to be perfectly fine.
    Well, if it's perfectly fine in this case, it will be perfectly fine in all other cases as well.

    Its fine because raids are not as proffitable as fractals or ow farm. Qol rewards compensate this fact.

    Clearly not fine. sPvPs get much more gold (some get more then fractal runner) then WvWs ever will. So double standards again.
    Raids have own compensation, don't you think? 5/5 infusion, unique skins, unique gizmo, possibility to get ascended items as drop and direct buy with no crafting whatsoever etc.

    Wvw has a mount i guess? Also, do raids give the infusions i thought u mostly got those from fractals again.

    Most of the things u credit for raids aply to fractals but fractals are daily with a much bigger number of gold per week. Also raids dont have a back piece, fractals have a backpiece.

    I'm not going to comment on wvw mount, lol that is ridiculous.
    yes raids have 5/5 infusion.
    If you not happy with gold from raids, you should be opening new topic.
    Check sPvP gold per week on season btw. Why not ask Anet to give same to raids.
    And yeah top tier PVPers get chest with legendary weapons on top of large sum of gold

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Aeon.4583Aeon.4583 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    Kinda i don't understand why pepole did start to compare Gold, if this thread theme is about Alternative Ways to get Legendary Armor from PvE content.
    Gold can be farmed from any game mode, and gold itself, at some point, will become insignificant.

    Gold alone will not buy you any of Legendary stuff(weapons maybe), so i really don't understand why discussion turned into 'which game mode makes more gold'.
    Locking Legendary armor only in raids, doesn't work for all.
    Making a weekly limit of Skirmish Claim Tickets also will not work for all. Espiecially for low WvW ranks.

    Like i mentioned before. I have my bank tab filled with all kind of ascended stuff from Fractals. I can make like 5 more characters and instantly gear them into ascended armors+weapons. Winterberry farm will do the rest. But i rather trade this all for some Legendary Armors.

  • I would be ok with fractal legendary armor If it either require some additional challanges in all T4 fractals including CMs or required high enough amount of pristine relics so it would be as long of a grind as the wvw one is.
    Interesting fact is that than it would be for only fraction of population as the rest legendary armors are

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Its fine because raids are not as proffitable as fractals or ow farm. Qol rewards compensate this fact.

    I'm not really supporting putting second PvE legendary armor in Fractals. Third maybe, but not second. Fractals are too similar to raids, and share most of the same problems - at this point we don't need another legendary armor for a niche content played by minority. As for SW being a good farm, it's not like SW is the only OW content - we don't need to put legendary armor collection there.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Its fine because raids are not as proffitable as fractals or ow farm. Qol rewards compensate this fact.

    I'm not really supporting putting second PvE legendary armor in Fractals. Third maybe, but not second. Fractals are too similar to raids, and share most of the same problems - at this point we don't need another legendary armor for a niche content played by minority. As for SW being a good farm, it's not like SW is the only OW content - we don't need to put legendary armor collection there.

    This. I feel like rewards from both quite similar contents are balanced. Second pve legendary armor could come out from lws4 maybe? I think there will be something legendary there. Or maybe from guild missions + pof maps.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes give every game mode a legendary armor.

    Geez player are their biggest enemy to get cool stuff to this game.....

    Almost acting like it’s they loosing money if something new joins the game

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019

    Raids are a tiny, limited and hard entry part of PVE. In fact, the smallest part of PVE, and by far.
    Having a RAID legendary armor is not having a PVE legendary armor, because the access to that armor is, and will continue being very limited. The RAID legendary armor will remain unreachable for the big majority of the PVE exclusive players. And I believe it's a good thing.

    Regular PVE, casual PVE, open world PVE, fractal PVE, dungeon PVE, world boss PVE, farming PVE, Guild PVE, roleplaying PVE and ultimately every non-raid PVE don't have a way to get that armor (and I insist that they shouldn't have it). But at the same time, it would be a good idea to allow them to get a long term, big effort and high cost mode to acces ANOTHER, DIFFERENT armor set with the basic characteristics of the RAID legendary armor (stat and rune swapping), but without the "shiny" skin and without the legendary status.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I was think, why not? It is bad, like dungeon leg armor, but idea.
    Imagine, that this bad idea anyway comes, we should add that and no way back.
    So how if we have that road only few comments:
    1)anyway items to craft that can be accessed only for fractal gods,
    2)one(1) piece should coast:
    250kp from cm100 (if you like fractals - your should do dayli cm100)
    250 mystic coins (it shoudl not bee free)
    250 integrated matrix (relic + gold or dropped destroyed armors and rings)

    • something more ..

    You can ask why 250kp from cm100 .. So people who make fractals, main tops of then have now aprox 1000 .. so this is enough to make fist set in first day who a real fractal player.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019

    So, we are basically picking the one content that most closely resembles raids as the first alternative route to acquiring legendary armor in PvE?
    Which means the idea is to neglect raids in favour of instanced content that is more to your liking? Interesting choice. Many would argue against it, though. With their idea of completely removing any need to take part in group content, let alone any remotely "challenging" content.
    Rather than, once again, picking content which already so closely resembles raids in the first place. Something they are going to hate almost as much as having to do raids. Would certainly be fun to see the drama.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    Raids are a tiny, limited and hard entry part of PVE. In fact, the smallest part of PVE, and by far.
    Having a RAID legendary armor is not having a PVE legendary armor, because the access to that armor is, and will continue being very limited. The RAID legendary armor will remain unreachable for the big majority of the PVE exclusive players. And I believe it's a good thing.

    Regular PVE, casual PVE, open world PVE, fractal PVE, dungeon PVE, world boss PVE, farming PVE, Guild PVE, roleplaying PVE and ultimately every non-raid PVE don't have a way to get that armor (and I insist that they shouldn't have it). But at the same time, it would be a good idea to allow them to get a long term, big effort and high cost mode to acces ANOTHER, DIFFERENT armor set with the basic characteristics of the RAID legendary armor (stat and rune swapping), but without the "shiny" skin and without the legendary status.

    Wvw you can kill sentrys, cap monuments, kill veteran creatures maybe even the odd camp or two all pve mate.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Wvw you can kill sentrys, cap monuments, kill veteran creatures maybe even the odd camp or two all pve mate.

    It's PvE only if no opponents show up. And quite often they do show up, because it is a PvP mode, not a PvE one.
    Also, you are giving examples for wxp, not for progress bar - some of the things you mentioned offer no progress at all.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    Raids are a tiny, limited and hard entry part of PVE. In fact, the smallest part of PVE, and by far.
    Having a RAID legendary armor is not having a PVE legendary armor, because the access to that armor is, and will continue being very limited. The RAID legendary armor will remain unreachable for the big majority of the PVE exclusive players. And I believe it's a good thing.

    Regular PVE, casual PVE, open world PVE, fractal PVE, dungeon PVE, world boss PVE, farming PVE, Guild PVE, roleplaying PVE and ultimately every non-raid PVE don't have a way to get that armor (and I insist that they shouldn't have it). But at the same time, it would be a good idea to allow them to get a long term, big effort and high cost mode to acces ANOTHER, DIFFERENT armor set with the basic characteristics of the RAID legendary armor (stat and rune swapping), but without the "shiny" skin and without the legendary status.

    Wvw you can kill sentrys, cap monuments, kill veteran creatures maybe even the odd camp or two all pve mate.

    In https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_of_Kyhlo you can treb whole match
    in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forest_of_Niflhel you can kill Mobs and literately win the match
    in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legacy_of_the_Foefire you can go straith to lord and kill it, depending on how stupid your opponent is, the odds are you can win the match without a single kill.
    Don't let me start on this https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_of_Champion's_Dusk as it's a moba, so you can rush base, without event seeing your opponents that are rushing your base
    Does that make sPvP -pve mod?

    @lare.5129 said:
    I was think, why not? It is bad, like dungeon leg armor, but idea.
    Imagine, that this bad idea anyway comes, we should add that and no way back.
    So how if we have that road only few comments:
    1)anyway items to craft that can be accessed only for fractal gods,
    2)one(1) piece should coast:
    250kp from cm100 (if you like fractals - your should do dayli cm100)
    250 mystic coins (it shoudl not bee free)
    250 integrated matrix (relic + gold or dropped destroyed armors and rings)

    • something more ..

    You can ask why 250kp from cm100 .. So people who make fractals, main tops of then have now aprox 1000 .. so this is enough to make fist set in first day who a real fractal player.

    As soon as they lock raids armor on CMs KP (all of them)and make it almost 2 years long to get, I would agree with you.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Wvw you can kill sentrys, cap monuments, kill veteran creatures maybe even the odd camp or two all pve mate.

    It's PvE only if no opponents show up. And quite often they do show up, because it is a PvP mode, not a PvE one.
    Also, you are giving examples for wxp, not for progress bar - some of the things you mentioned offer no progress at all.

    The mode may be PvP but that does not change the fact that sentries, monuments, camps, and veterans are PvE (don’t require interaction with others). It’s just like adding open world PvP to Kessex won’t suddenly make waypoints, hearts, vistas, jumping puzzles, and so forth into being PvP.

    All of those to impact the progress bar as they maintain your participation with some doing so better than others. They don’t just provide wxp. I also very rarely encounter other players when I go for these. I’m most likely to encounter them at camps but usually only if someone is dumb and contests it early drawing attention to it.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019

    @lare.5129 said:
    I was think, why not? It is bad, like dungeon leg armor, but idea.
    Imagine, that this bad idea anyway comes, we should add that and no way back.
    So how if we have that road only few comments:
    1)anyway items to craft that can be accessed only for fractal gods,
    2)one(1) piece should coast:
    250kp from cm100 (if you like fractals - your should do dayli cm100)
    250 mystic coins (it shoudl not bee free)
    250 integrated matrix (relic + gold or dropped destroyed armors and rings)

    • something more ..

    You can ask why 250kp from cm100 .. So people who make fractals, main tops of then have now aprox 1000 .. so this is enough to make fist set in first day who a real fractal player.

    So your suggested requirement for a Fractal Legendary Armor is about 1.5-4 years of doing CM's every single day depending on luck (including daily T4's + Recs for over one year for relics), 7000+ Gold, a Title that costs another few thousand Gold and takes another separate year and then some to get, plus "something more", because "It should not be free", you know, besides having to play challenging content for ~1h daily for 3+ years without spending gained rewards from those 1000+ hours on anything else.

    That's about 8 times as much in total time, 20 times the effort in play time and about 5 times the cost of a Raid armor (assuming it wouldn't also take all the usual Gifts etc. that Legendaries require).
    In short, you could make about 7 sets of Raid armor in time and cost of a single Fractal armor, with significantly less effort.
    Glad to precisely know how out of touch on this topic you are.

    By that same logic you should also argue that Raid Legendary Armor should cost 400 LI per piece, as some people (real Raiders as you would say) have over 2000 LI stockpiled.

    Now I don't now why you are so adverse to this idea, since your "arguments" so far are just platitudes and strawmen, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    So your suggested requirement for a Fractal Legendary Armor is about 1.5-4 years of doing CM's every single day depending on luck (including daily T4's + Recs for over one year for relics), 7000+ Gold, a Title that costs another few thousand Gold and takes another separate year and then some to get, plus "something more", because "It should not be free", you know, besides having to play challenging content for ~1h daily for 3+ years without spending gained rewards from those 1000+ hours on anything else.
    That's about 8 times as much in total time, 20 times the effort in play time and about 5 times the cost of a Raid armor (assuming it wouldn't also take all the usual Gifts etc. that Legendaries require).
    In short, you could make about 7 sets of Raid armor in time and cost of a single Fractal armor, with significantly less effort.

    Yes. I suggest that as minimum requirement. Is should be more and more hard that raid.

    By that same logic you should also argue that Raid Legendary Armor should cost 400 LI per piece, as some people (real Raiders as you would say) have over 2000 LI stockpiled.

    I don't suggest change that. And think it is NOT good. .. BUT I perfect remember how was incrisead coast of pvp armor, then additional was addeded some Grandmaster Marks to ascend shards. I can't gurantee that something like this not will be done again whit raid leg armor )) Will se how it bee after few update path )