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Anet, any word on the stealth nerf to raid rewards?

Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

With bags now changed to unident gear, raiding has become even less profitable. Where before you could at least open them on a lower level toon for a bit extra gold, now we get worthless t5 mats.

Repeating raids - to help others for example - is now the biggest waste of time in the game. This will hurt the raiding community hugely. With more and more raiders already having left due to the easy nature and long release cadence of "raids" in gw2, making repeating raids worthless now removes pretty much all incentive for experienced raiders to help train those new to raiding.

So, is this intentional to kill of the raids like you killed dungeons? Seeing the similarities there afterall. Or will this get fixed and finally repeating raids made worthwhile - at least on the level of running around on empty maps with a mount and pressing 'f' every 10 seconds or so?

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Comments

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    I doubt that the number of players who did this was significantly existent.
    Of course, raid rewards have problems especially the CM reward situation but let's be honest hoarding bags and transfer them to toons + increasing MF to over 9k was and still is a pretty hardcore nerdy thing. Can't blame min/max people but with daily fracs & raid full clear we already swim in gold tbh.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    With bags now changed to unident gear, raiding has become even less profitable. Where before you could at least open them on a lower level toon for a bit extra gold, now we get worthless t5 mats.

    Repeating raids - to help others for example - is now the biggest waste of time in the game. This will hurt the raiding community hugely. With more and more raiders already having left due to the easy nature and long release cadence of "raids" in gw2, making repeating raids worthless now removes pretty much all incentive for experienced raiders to help train those new to raiding.

    So, is this intentional to kill of the raids like you killed dungeons? Seeing the similarities there afterall. Or will this get fixed and finally repeating raids made worthwhile - at least on the level of running around on empty maps with a mount and pressing 'f' every 10 seconds or so?

    How much gold did players obtain from those bags prior to the change?

    How much gold do they make now from the unident bags?

  • I don't mind this change but ANet should think of some other way to reward repeat raid clears. Maybe just 1g per repeat boss kill.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    any additional reward for repeat will be dis-balanced, because some cool ppl will fart same boss 100 times .. so after we we will get suggestion nerf skills damage, or up boss ..
    but on same time people like me can't kill this boss once in year at all wiht current attributes..
    if someone don't like t5 - > use mf to make t6

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't understand? I still send my bags of gear to my lower level toon to open.

    Lower level toons do not get unidentified gear. Unless something changed this last week? I was out of town visiting and while I played I didn't raid.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How much gold did players obtain from those bags prior to the change?

    How much gold do they make now from the unident bags?

    It was enough to keep you afloat. Not on par with SW or istan, but okayish considering the upfront weekly rewards. More would have been better to begin with, because then more players would have been attracted to repeating raids, which is important to get good and stop being the one that gets carried constantly.
    Now its a handful of BLUE unident gear. Worth not even 10s.

    What were the specific amounts before and after? Let’s say they did a full wing clear. How much gold did they get before and how much gold do they get now? That’s what I was asking.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How much gold did players obtain from those bags prior to the change?

    How much gold do they make now from the unident bags?

    It was enough to keep you afloat. Not on par with SW or istan, but okayish considering the upfront weekly rewards. More would have been better to begin with, because then more players would have been attracted to repeating raids, which is important to get good and stop being the one that gets carried constantly.
    Now its a handful of BLUE unident gear. Worth not even 10s.

    What were the specific amounts before and after? Let’s say they did a full wing clear. How much gold did they get before and how much gold do they get now? That’s what I was asking.

    If I'm not mistaken the difference is between these two:
    old: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag_of_Gear
    new: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Piece_of_Common_Unidentified_Gear

    Bag of gear used to drop 3 items based on your level, so you could open them with a lower level character to get more expensive materials, or more useful ones if you craft Ascended items, they require materials from all tiers.
    Meanwhile, Unidentified Gear drops a single item that is level 80 meaning you mostly get tier 5 materials (which are very cheap)

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How much gold did players obtain from those bags prior to the change?

    How much gold do they make now from the unident bags?

    It was enough to keep you afloat. Not on par with SW or istan, but okayish considering the upfront weekly rewards. More would have been better to begin with, because then more players would have been attracted to repeating raids, which is important to get good and stop being the one that gets carried constantly.
    Now its a handful of BLUE unident gear. Worth not even 10s.

    What were the specific amounts before and after? Let’s say they did a full wing clear. How much gold did they get before and how much gold do they get now? That’s what I was asking.

    If I'm not mistaken the difference is between these two:
    old: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag_of_Gear
    new: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Piece_of_Common_Unidentified_Gear

    Bag of gear used to drop 3 items based on your level, so you could open them with a lower level character to get more expensive materials, or more useful ones if you craft Ascended items, they require materials from all tiers.
    Meanwhile, Unidentified Gear drops a single item that is level 80 meaning you mostly get tier 5 materials (which are very cheap)

    What I was trying to get them to show was the actual gold about between the two. Despite the difference between unident gear and bag of gear, I don’t think players got enough of either to make that change being a significant drop in gold. Especially if assisting others with their raids.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oooh. I see. Yrs it is a significant difference. You get about (got?) 4 bags of gear per boss. So if you cleared four wings you'd get roughly 64ish bags so times 3 is 192 pieces of gear you could open on a lower level character as opposed to 64 pieces of unid.

    Significant. And that's just for clearing four wings.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2019

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    With bags now changed to unident gear, raiding has become even less profitable. Where before you could at least open them on a lower level toon for a bit extra gold, now we get worthless t5 mats.

    Repeating raids - to help others for example - is now the biggest waste of time in the game. This will hurt the raiding community hugely. With more and more raiders already having left due to the easy nature and long release cadence of "raids" in gw2, making repeating raids worthless now removes pretty much all incentive for experienced raiders to help train those new to raiding.

    So, is this intentional to kill of the raids like you killed dungeons? Seeing the similarities there afterall. Or will this get fixed and finally repeating raids made worthwhile - at least on the level of running around on empty maps with a mount and pressing 'f' every 10 seconds or so?

    Its the bigges waste of time and thats why I only do raids and kill multiple bosses multiple times each week. If you do/did it for the gold then you play bad gamemode.

    Acualy I like that change since now I can salvage all bags at once and dont need to open 10 at the time. Actualy I used to store my bags in bank because i was too lazy to open them like that. (So no gold) After this change I opend all of them and let my copper-fed eat all of them. Took some time but I made some gold (and some gold is better then nothing)

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2019

    @Etria.3642 said:
    Oooh. I see. Yrs it is a significant difference. You get about (got?) 4 bags of gear per boss. So if you cleared four wings you'd get roughly 64ish bags so times 3 is 192 pieces of gear you could open on a lower level character as opposed to 64 pieces of unid.

    Significant. And that's just for clearing four wings.

    This is based on old data from several years ago but they put the rare bags of gear at 38 silver and the other at 12 silver. Prices have dropped a lot since then though.

    As of around that time, bags unident gear were worth the following:

    Blue - 4.4 silver
    Green - 5.5 silver
    Yellow - 34.4 silver

    I don’t remember which bags they dropped as it wasn’t something I paid attention to. I do know that the boss chests were rare and exotic equipment but I don’t believe you get those if you had already beaten the boss that week.

    So at 64 bags, you’re looking at around a loss of 5G across 4 wings. It’s likely less than that now as a lot of those lower tiered mats are much cheaper as a result of Istan farm before it was needed and especially after the meta event rush.

    As for the OP, I’d like to think that they’re helping others to help/train them and not to make gold. Also, if you’re training groups, it’s unlikely you’ll clear all 4 wings every week or maybe I’m just underestimating the ability of players new to raids to master them that quickly.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    any additional reward for repeat will be dis-balanced, because some cool ppl will fart same boss 100 times .. so after we we will get suggestion nerf skills damage, or up boss ..
    but on same time people like me can't kill this boss once in year at all wiht current attributes..
    if someone don't like t5 - > use mf to make t6

    I welcome it, the game has felt like a job for too long with limited replayability of content making it feel like a todo list.

    Let ppl farm the content.

  • Compleo.3182Compleo.3182 Member ✭✭

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How much gold did players obtain from those bags prior to the change?

    How much gold do they make now from the unident bags?

    It was enough to keep you afloat. Not on par with SW or istan, but okayish considering the upfront weekly rewards. More would have been better to begin with, because then more players would have been attracted to repeating raids, which is important to get good and stop being the one that gets carried constantly.
    Now its a handful of BLUE unident gear. Worth not even 10s.

    What were the specific amounts before and after? Let’s say they did a full wing clear. How much gold did they get before and how much gold do they get now? That’s what I was asking.

    If I'm not mistaken the difference is between these two:
    old: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag_of_Gear
    new: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Piece_of_Common_Unidentified_Gear

    Bag of gear used to drop 3 items based on your level, so you could open them with a lower level character to get more expensive materials, or more useful ones if you craft Ascended items, they require materials from all tiers.
    Meanwhile, Unidentified Gear drops a single item that is level 80 meaning you mostly get tier 5 materials (which are very cheap)

    What I was trying to get them to show was the actual gold about between the two. Despite the difference between unident gear and bag of gear, I don’t think players got enough of either to make that change being a significant drop in gold. Especially if assisting others with their raids.

    Before: 1-2 champ bags + 2-4 masterwork bags = ~12s + mats from champ bag
    Now: 4-6 unidentified blue gear = ~5s

    Was it worth it? Barely. Theres enough threads about this issue however.
    But now its even less so, and it feels like a kick in the nuts. Its the straw that broke this camels back. Until anet fixes this issue, Im going to fullclear once a week - maybe - and then log off. Since thats how its supposed to be done anyway.
    No more helping out. I dont need the practice, and its no fun to do raids with noobs anyway, due to the downtime between pulls mostly.

    I aggree. It's a joke that you cant get anything at least semi ok for clearing multiple times. CMs once per account, now normal raids once per week. Some ppl, including me, have fun when they see +gold. But now going more raiding than once per week is a waste of time. Helping noobs is a waste of time. Not that rewards werent garbage before.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    don'y see any requirement to push up only one type of content.
    Raid run done? So welcome do word bosses, pof/hot meta, fractals, dungeons, wvw ant etc.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    don'y see any requirement to push up only one type of content.
    Raid run done? So welcome do word bosses, pof/hot meta, fractals, dungeons, wvw ant etc.

    Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed. It was already sad how much you get from raids and it's nerfed yet again. As if low attendance wasn't low enough they have to nerf the rewards even further. Some people seem to enjoy every little bad thing that happens to raids. As if they're still angry on anet for adding raids into the game. They are already here. You have to accept it.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

    Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

    Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

    It's already low. There is no incentive to run raids more than once per week to help out newbies. Some people are ( or were ) in this game - believe it or not, only for raids. Lowering the reward more will ravage already low numbers of players that are left. I get that you play this game for different reasons than I do. Nerf in this case is simply bad move from anet. Unless they are actively trying to kill them that is.

    Honestly, I have a very hard time believing experienced raiders help newbs for those extra 30 bags of gear. I do not day this sarcastically, and I honestly mean no offense. I also know people play gw2 mostly for raids, it is acceptable cause they play what they have most fun with. Nothing wrong here!
    That being said, I do believe end game content (raids and T4 plus cm fractals) is very rewarding, for the time people spend on it.

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

    Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

    So what exactly is the problem with rewarding players for the content they like to play? Sure its not much but it still kinda sucks.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

    Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

    So what exactly is the problem with rewarding players for the content they like to play? Sure its not much but it still kinda sucks.

    It IS rewarding enough, already. Plenty of other gamemodes people enjoy that have kitten rewards (wvw, for example).
    Plus, raids are sellable. Extremely profitable.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It IS rewarding enough, already. Plenty of other gamemodes people enjoy that have kitten rewards (wvw, for example).
    Plus, raids are sellable. Extremely profitable.

    Okay, let me rephrase:
    What is the problem in having rewarding, repeatable content. The bags havent been amazing anyway, why nerf them?
    I didnt agree with nerfing Palawadan, i dont agree with nerfing raid rewards. If people wanna farm Palawadan/Raids all day for the rewards, by all means, let them do it.
    Also not everyone is able or willing to sell raids.

    Exactly. They were already low. On top of that we got no info from anet why were they nerfed. That's why some might get riled up.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    don'y see any requirement to push up only one type of content.
    Raid run done? So welcome do word bosses, pof/hot meta, fractals, dungeons, wvw ant etc.

    You can repeat metas multiple times a day, i dont see any requirement to push up only one type of content, they should also nerf metas

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

    Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

    Unless u are 100 hours into the game who gives a kitten about ascended. The only form of currency/item that matter in this game is gold (sad but true) asc mean kitten all, esp if the content gives u an armor that makes asc worthless.

    Ow was also already rewarding between world bosses and metas why did we have to also buff all the pof content?

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

    Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

    Unless u are 100 hours into the game who gives a kitten about ascended. The only form of currency/item that matter in this game is gold (sad but true) asc mean kitten all, esp if the content gives u an armor that makes asc worthless.

    Ow was also already rewarding between world bosses and metas why did we have to also buff all the pof content?

    I stand by what @Vinceman.4572 said.
    "I doubt that the number of players who did this was significantly existent.
    Of course, raid rewards have problems especially the CM reward situation but let's be honest hoarding bags and transfer them to toons + increasing MF to over 9k was and still is a pretty hardcore nerdy thing. Can't blame min/max people but with daily fracs & raid full clear we already swim in gold tbh."

    Edit: if you even remotely compare raid and world boss rewards... Dunno what to say. As for PoF content being buffed, rewards were non existent. Lastly, I firmly believe most people would trade raid rewards for world boss or buffed PoF rewards any day.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

    Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

    Unless u are 100 hours into the game who gives a kitten about ascended. The only form of currency/item that matter in this game is gold (sad but true) asc mean kitten all, esp if the content gives u an armor that makes asc worthless.

    Ow was also already rewarding between world bosses and metas why did we have to also buff all the pof content?

    I stand by what @Vinceman.4572 said.
    "I doubt that the number of players who did this was significantly existent.
    Of course, raid rewards have problems especially the CM reward situation but let's be honest hoarding bags and transfer them to toons + increasing MF to over 9k was and still is a pretty hardcore nerdy thing. Can't blame min/max people but with daily fracs & raid full clear we already swim in gold tbh."

    If only a small number of ppl did it and the rest were able to play nornaly and enjoy the game that means it didnt affect anyone, so why nerf it in the first place. Also whether smth is nerdy "hardcore" or not its really an excuse to nerf it. The most hardcore thing i feel like was prob getting the mf for it and thats not really anything hard. Its prob less dedication than the ppl doing the fgs mat farm every couple weeks with prov agents.

    I didnt see that even-more-hardcore farm getting nerfed.

    Edit: if you even remotely compare raid and world boss rewards... Dunno what to say. As for PoF content being buffed, rewards were non existent. Lastly, I firmly believe most people would trade raid rewards for world boss or buffed PoF rewards any day.

    Why not, we are talking about x world bosses every days of the week vs like what 20 encounters per week in raids?

    Even if pof was dead ppl had already hot, wb and istan, ow was already "plenty rewarding" so justifying buffing that over repeating raids seems biased imo.

    Hell the miniscule incentive of repeating raids also incentivised ppl to help newbies which was good for the community, what good to the community did the pof buffs introduce?

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't believe that this was a nerf with intention behind it. It was a universal change for all game modes if I'm not mistaken and not purposely directed against the raiding community. So it's kind of obvious that this won't get reverted.
    I also doubt that those bags really shifted people to help out rather than doing other stuff in the past. The people I know (knew because lots of them left - not due to rewards) repeated raids because they wanted to help others getting the clears or were using multiple accounts to get the usual reward several times. Literally none of them was raiding for the extra bags. Yes, you took the bags, you opened them, salvaged and/or sold stuff and it was fine. Not to speak about using toons for opening them etc.
    We also all know that it was never intended that repeating raids would make decent profit because everyone with brain knows what would have happened --> squads farming the fastest bosses over and over again for maximum profit.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    Upon reading this thread it might be the case that eventually (as far in the future as when they decide "yeah this mode is dead") raids will go the way of dungeon rewards, i.e add a continuous chest reward for completing 9 unique bosses/encounters or something like this. Right now Anet sees no reason to give such incentive and they have all the population data that we don't.

    With this said, I've also never seen anyone explicitly raiding because of the bags. Quite on the contrary, all I used to see would be people accumulating thousands of them and getting lazy about opening it. It's literally a non-issue and I think some would not even notice if Anet flat out removed unid gear and left only exotic drops.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    I don't believe that this was a nerf with intention behind it. It was a universal change for all game modes if I'm not mistaken and not purposely directed against the raiding community. So it's kind of obvious that this won't get reverted.

    I guess depends on the person, i personally didnt really find "much" to do past the dailies which took an hour hour and a half max. Add like idk 2 or 3 hours per week for raids, still theres plenty of free time, time that ppl might wanted to spend doing content they enjoy.

    I also doubt that those bags really shifted people to help out rather than doing other stuff in the past. The people I know (knew because lots of them left - not due to rewards) repeated raids because they wanted to help others getting the clears or were using multiple accounts to get the usual reward several times. Literally none of them was raiding for the extra bags.

    I mean isnt it the same but more reqarding to raid with alt acounts?

    Yes, you took the bags, you opened them, salvaged and/or sold stuff and it was fine. Not to speak about using toons for opening them etc.

    We also all know that it was never intended that repeating raids would make decent profit because everyone with brain knows what would have happened --> squads farming the fastest bosses over and over again for maximum profit.

    I doubt i was more rewarding than say doing your world boss train or the daily hot meta, im not familiar with training but i doubt it was always the smoothest experience, so having the reward of a repeated clear at least added smth.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019

    I do agree that....the reward nerf is not a good idea .. when i was doing fc weekly before, i used to keep those bags and open with low level character .. sometimes i will join training pug group to help them and get extra loot is always nice. These are little things some but not everyone enjoy doing but i did.. it doesnt bother me now since i stop raiding. But i think anet should consider buff up the loot for raids.. not for farming it repeatedly but at least an incentive to repeat and help other group

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  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I mean isnt it the same but more reqarding to raid with alt acounts?

    No, because on other accounts you get the gold again + chance for asc loot and stuff like a ghostly. A 2nd account amortizes after few weeks btw. and would be the best investment if you are into raiding more than once a week.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I mean isnt it the same but more reqarding to raid with alt acounts?

    No, because on other accounts you get the gold again + chance for asc loot and stuff like a ghostly. A 2nd account amortizes after few weeks btw. and would be the best investment if you are into raiding more than once a week.

    I meant the same as in raiding multiple times per week for rewards.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

    Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

    It's already low. There is no incentive to run raids more than once per week to help out newbies. Some people are ( or were ) in this game - believe it or not, only for raids. Lowering the reward more will ravage already low numbers of players that are left. I get that you play this game for different reasons than I do. Nerf in this case is simply bad move from anet. Unless they are actively trying to kill them that is.

    Honestly, I have a very hard time believing experienced raiders help newbs for those extra 30 bags of gear. I do not day this sarcastically, and I honestly mean no offense. I also know people play gw2 mostly for raids, it is acceptable cause they play what they have most fun with. Nothing wrong here!
    That being said, I do believe end game content (raids and T4 plus cm fractals) is very rewarding, for the time people spend on it.

    For the bags? No. But it made it bearable. As I said, at least I could sustain additional raiding per week with those "30 bags of gear". Now I have to dip into the loot from first clear, and really... why would I do that for random people that most of the time cant even be bothered to get on voice for explanations or switch around a few traits.

    @Voltekka.2375 I have a bank full ascended gear. So what? I cant exactly buy food with that now, can I? Or a skin I like... Also, I think you are slightly over-estimating the dropchance of ascended gear in raids. I got more from fractals than from raids. The raid skins? Theres a reason pretty much nobody uses those skins. They are cheaply made and ugly. Minis? Who cares. Legendary armor? I got 3 sets. I dont use a single skin of those, because dye channels havent been fixed in years. Currently working on the wvw one because it looks fantastic. And can be dyed.

    Repeating raids never was "profitable" if you didnt sell runs. Dont kid yourself about that. Weekly first clears with pugs take 5+ hours nowadays, so even that weekly clear without a static isnt as profitable as doing the daily timegated hamster wheel routine.

    And here's something for everybody to think about. Rewards are also a measure of "educating" and "guiding" a playerbase. In gw2, running around a map on a mount, pressing f once in a while... or autoattacking during meta events are one of the most profitable things to do. Things that are more challenging and would force players to get better (not good, just BETTER than pressing 1 and f) are not rewarding enough to draw players in. Hence why many gw2 players are complaining immediately when theres something even a little more demanding (time and skillwise). The rewardstructure is with a reason why gw2 is basically a browser game with better graphics.
    I remember how the gw2 community meme'ed at the diablo players for getting diablo immortal. But you know what? I bet diablo immortal will have a better reward structure, less cash grab and more challenging content than gw2.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019

    @lare.5129 said:
    any additional reward for repeat will be dis-balanced, because some cool ppl will fart same boss 100 times .. so after we we will get suggestion nerf skills damage, or up boss ..
    but on same time people like me can't kill this boss once in year at all wiht current attributes..
    if someone don't like t5 - > use mf to make t6

    Fractal farm can be 50g per hour. Even 60+ with some organized groups. A raidboss needs to drop like 10g to come even close to that. Demanding gold to at least cover the bufffood is too unbalanced for you?
    Open world farm is currently more rewarding than raids anyways. Repeated raidboss kills are just not worth it at all. Kralk is repeatable aswell and far more rewarding than raids.
    You also can't reset raids yet so any bossfarm is limited to the amount of accounts the players have access to. I'm not even sure why the basic gold reward doesn't stay per boss anyways. Like I said Fractal farm is far more rewarding and even RIBA can earn you 20g+ per hour. Why are raids outside of ascended drops and fun so not worth it?

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    We also all know that it was never intended that repeating raids would make decent profit because everyone with brain knows what would have happened --> squads farming the fastest bosses over and over again for maximum profit.

    Actually no. Unless you can get to cairn, kill it and reopen another instance in less than 3 minutes. The rewards are that kitten if it comes to optimized farming.
    Farming low level fractals with fractal god is more rewarding than raiding.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    Actually no. Unless you can get to cairn, kill it and reopen another instance in less than 3 minutes. The rewards are that kitten if it comes to optimized farming.

    Actually yes, you only need 1 player with a 2nd acc. and you can reopen another instance immediately. Heck, you can even do it on 2nd screen while you're still on the boss on 1st screen as your squad do not need you for the last 20s to clear it optimally.

    Farming low level fractals with fractal god is more rewarding than raiding.

    And since we have fractal farming for aeons this seems to be highly intended. Repeated raiding being rewarding just isn't and I can totally understand why they did that. Of course some vet raiders are not satisfied with that but it is heavily in line with the philosophy that it's open world/easy content in the first place and raids are a niche content. We can go back and forth in every thread but the conclusion stays the same. ^^

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    For one thing, easy bosses could have less loot. But considering that "farming" single bosses would be similar to fractals goldfarm, that would still be > 50s per kill.
    For another thing, a similar system to dungeon rewards, where a certain amount of different bosses give extra loot, could also be easily implemented, making singleboss farming pointless.

    Anet instead chose to nerf the repeatable rewards even more.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.

    this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    You can repeat metas multiple times a day

    this is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.

    this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    You can repeat metas multiple times a day

    this is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

    Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019

    I'm with Vince on this.

    I doubt the change was intentional but rather the result of game wide loot changes to bags. The rewards before this unintended change were already bad past the 1 time per week loot (which too as not that great unless you were experienced enough to clear raids fast). I doubt this will affect people helping or not helping since I doubt that this loot was ever a factor for people to run raids repeatedly (at least I never bothered with the 2nd kill rewards). There are far more grevious and concerning issues which need attending and fixing/solving. I honestly could care less about multiple clear raid rewards on the same account.

    If you are a hardcore raider and into raiding multiple times per week, make a second or third account. Given the proper guild/static, it shouldn't take that long to get a base set of classes raid ready. That way you can get the unique weekly rewards again and the other benefits of having an additional account.

  • DutchRiders.2871DutchRiders.2871 Member ✭✭✭

    The thing is no one repeated raids for the bag rewards on the same account multiple times. But it helped you to cover food costs. Now I'm actively destroying my funds if I raid multiple times which is sad.

    Yeah I raid a lot, yeah I have multiple accounts but I prefer to raid on my main.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.

    this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    You can repeat metas multiple times a day

    this is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

    Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

    You can not, the amalgam gem chest is only the first time you run any meta that rewards it limited to 1 time a day.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.

    this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    You can repeat metas multiple times a day

    this is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

    Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

    You can not, the amalgam gem chest is only the first time you run any meta that rewards it limited to 1 time a day.

    Are the chest at the end of every map also one per day or they reset for each meta?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.

    this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    You can repeat metas multiple times a day

    this is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

    Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

    You can not, the amalgam gem chest is only the first time you run any meta that rewards it limited to 1 time a day.

    Are the chest at the end of every map also one per day or they reset for each meta?

    If I remember right yes.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

    nor realy, each meta have some individulal things .. one palawadad you get additional bonus on each char, and one for account day, on choya one per day, .. there is no one same rule. Anyway raid is top content so top players have change to participate in other action. And I don't see any issue do metas all day. This is different thing.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • I used to love opening the Champ and Utility bags on my lower level character and mass salvaging/selling stuff. Even if this added cleaning time decreased the hourly "profit" of raiding to be nearly the same as the current UNID drops, it was cathartic.

    Whether only perceived or actually realized, the nerfs don't disturb me as much as Anet's lack of communication. It feels like Raids are going the way of Dungeons, Fractal CMs, and Guild World Events: silently discontinued.

    You vote with your wallet
    2012 - 2017 PoF: deluxe editions of both expansions and $300 in gems
    March 2018 - August 2019: Raiding. $55 per month in gems
    September 2019 - now. $0. Quit. No ArcTemplates or equivalent

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭

    @Awesumness.1823 said:
    I used to love opening the Champ and Utility bags on my lower level character and mass salvaging/selling stuff. Even if this added cleaning time decreased the hourly "profit" of raiding to be nearly the same as the current UNID drops, it was cathartic.

    Whether only perceived or actually realized, the nerfs don't disturb me as much as Anet's lack of communication. It feels like Raids are going the way of Dungeons, Fractal CMs, and Guild World Events: silently discontinued.

    So all we're left with is WvW then? My biggest issue with nerfs to rewards systems is that they tend to make games even more top-heavy: More experienced players are that much farther ahead of everyone else & it makes it harder for others to catch up. It sounds like newer players will have even more trouble making money.