Strike mission opinions, boneskinner (and the previous bosses) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Strike mission opinions, boneskinner (and the previous bosses)

The boneskinner strike came out just today. Arenanet mentioned this is the hardest difficulty we will see in strike missions.. So after doing this I am curious what everyone thinks about this fight, and compared to the previous strike bosses. Also mention if you are new to instanced boss content (casual), you do fractals or dungeons frequently or if you do raid so we know the kind of experience.

Let me start....

I am a casual player that has done some fractal on tier 1 before and the dungeon story paths but thats about it next to the usual open world bosses. I have done all strike bosses now... The Grothmar Icebrood construct was an easy cakewalk (just hug it and you can kinda just press autoattack). Then we got the Voice and Claw of the Fallen. This one I did die on 1st attempt (whole squad whiped but we didn't know what to do yet). On restart we nailed it easy and on any later attempt it was an easy cakewalk because every one new the tactic (yet again one could hug the bosses and kinda auto-attack but with changing the bosses and kill them off together). Then we got the Fraenir... again an easy boss but harder than previous. Just avoid ice, jump over waves (or ignore when healer), use your CC and hug the boss. Can't autoattack if you want gold but never failed to get gold from try 1. And then today we got the Boneskinner. Announced as the hardest one... I would say this may have been the easiest one next to the Grothmar one... Instant gold... Hug boss, move along with it now and then to stay hugged and just dps (I guess one could auto attack it lol) and CC. Don't think I even got any damage (which I did with the Grothmar one)... I truly hope this was not the most difficult. I fear that this will be dead content in 2 days since everyone got the achievements and the rewards are terrible so why would one replay it.

Im curious for other players opinions on these bosses they encountered.

<1

Comments

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    This was not the most difficult of the strike missions we have seen by a long stretch. Easy gold on first try basically ignoring all mechanics. Fraenir was what I expected the difficulty of a public strike mission to be like.

    As it stands, it's harder to kill the Boneskinner that spawns in open world than it is to kill the one in the strike mission.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Haven't tried new one yet. Haven't got silver let alone gold in Fraenir yet although came close. Thoroughly enjoyed the fight - enough challenge and mechanics for me to feel enjoyable.

    First one was also decent enough and about the right level for a strike mission. Prob the harder of the seen ones since it's the only one I've actually seen "fail" more than once.

    Boneskinner will have to wait until tomorrow when players are online. Not much call for it at nearly 2am it seems!

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just saw the vid of Mighty Teapot about this strike where he mentions either something is utterly broken (you can ignore breakbar and all mechanics, ok with a 4 man the torment did damage quite a bit but nobody goes without 10 players (and theres usually always some heal). He has done it around same time as I did it as I saw myself back in his video standing outside the portal after just finishing mine. As it is atm the open world version is a lot harder.

    I expected difficulty closer to Balthazar/Warbeast end story fight or Mordremoth fight (given its 10 ppl could as well be CM difficulty of that boss as that one is 5 player).

  • All i can say is I have no confidence in Dakkar now. i just feel like he will just be another loot pinata like deathbranded shatterer.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Depending on your team comp, the difficulty your group experiences will vary. I did it with a group that had no healer and people kept getting themselves downed over and over. Eventually it snowballed. People dropped and then with their replacements we managed gold.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Till now we have 4 strike missions and as I expected none of them is an appetizer for raiding. The missing lore aspect that dungeons & raids have (and in little parts fractals as well) in addition with an inconsequential, not increasing difficulty pattern paired with terrible loot won't lead people to raids or things related. Although there may be strikes to come my opinion from the beginning stands that they are not an improvement for the game. Neither for the casual side of the game nor the hardcore ones which obviously wasn't the target group anyway.
    The better route would have been to develop new dungeons with PoF or at least with LS 4 maps or for my sake with the Saga.
    For me the strike adventure still stays a product of the rationalization cycle because the required resources for better results were gutted and they desperately wanted to ship out something. In my opinion a big failure but it's not the first one. Let's see when they get abandoned as well.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2019

    Spoiler: It does nothing.

    It's so bad, that I think it's actually bugged...

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like strike missions. Do both dayli, and I see what we not have any kp to make some elitizm, so if not kp = level should be more easy that raid.
    I have plan do 32 bags from new loc, so do also strike in chill mode best way for me.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    Spoiler: It does nothing.

    It's so bad, that I think it's actually bugged...

    Quality challenging content

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    Spoiler: It does nothing.

    It's so bad, that I think it's actually bugged...

    Your group is hardly a typical group. You had high barrier uptime as well as high group DPS. Of course it was easy for your group. Strikes, at the moment, aren’t designed for groups like that.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    Spoiler: It does nothing.

    It's so bad, that I think it's actually bugged...

    Your group is hardly a typical group. You had high barrier uptime as well as high group DPS. Of course it was easy for your group. Strikes, at the moment, aren’t designed for groups like that.

    That's it. Strikes are designed for common pugs, not for hardcore raiders.

  • Roamer.3259Roamer.3259 Member ✭✭
    edited December 3, 2019

    I have to believe that this strike is bugged, did it this morning in a public group an he just stood in the middle of the arena and jumped once and didnt do much else after that (didnt run to a brazier or do a ground cone aoe like I saw in the video above). No one died, no one even got close to dying, finished it with a little under 1min remaining on gold.
    I'm assuming there's supposed to be mechanics players have to do and stuff needing to be dodged, but if he's not bugged, then he's the easiest boss I've ever killed in an MMO.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wow...that was straight dps run. No mechanics. cc bar broken in 2 seconds. Dead in under a minute and they had the added drag factor of my pvt warrior

    Really hope it is bugged - it's the weakest boss yet

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, I confirm that, if bugged, it's due to something that triggers that bug, because I was in a pug today and it took some minutes to kill it with many jumps and aoe's. It was not a very hard fight at all, but it wasn't either a 1 minute kill.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the first bonnerskinner in open world was very broken too, i dont want bet they just recycled without even ...

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    Well, I confirm that, if bugged, it's due to something that triggers that bug, because I was in a pug today and it took some minutes to kill it with many jumps and aoe's. It was not a very hard fight at all, but it wasn't either a 1 minute kill.

    That's most likely due to different dps. Pugs without any other statements than "strike mission" in the lfg can vary from good to very bad dps - not even with taking into account alacrity, quickness and other boons that would shift good to very good or excellent dps.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • GWMO.4785GWMO.4785 Member ✭✭✭

    first try. had no idea what to expect. tho i did kill the boss in open world.
    dissapointed. nothing more to say....

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Fractals and raids died for this

    But at least we're getting capes. I'm quite sure it is completely worth it /s

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Fractals and raids died for this

    At least strikes is getting me into raids... Did my first today and enjoyed it (escort and boss at the end of escort). Fractals.. I find that whole AR thing and instabilities too much of a hastle to proceed to higher tiers. They should still develop both of those imo...

  • Fractals are better if we're talking about "introduce to raids", because fractal community wants you to play meta build, just like in raids — to be dps or support.
    But honestly, fractals are more dynamic than most of the raid bosses.

    • First strike mission (in Grothmar) wasn't super challenging... just a big dps golem.
    • Kodans: it shows us that breaking the defiance bar is important, because it stops certain boss attack which can kill the squad. Those immobilize aoes aren't dangeorous. +They need to be killed at the same time. It's enough of mechanics. I liked that strike mission.
    • Fraenir: watch the aoe and dodge them. Nothing more. And it's a big dps golem (see Grothmar's strike mission).
    • Boneskinner: well, just attack it until it die.
      I hope devs will do something about it; maybe they will add at least one mechanic. I would like to see the same mechanics as in OW event: Bineskinner has CC bar and you have to break it, otherwise Bineskinner will jump to it's target to kill it. It's a great opportunity to teach players Samarog's mechanic (for those who don't know: Samarog will jump at the targeted player and others must break it's CC bar to prevent him from killing someone).
      Fraenir could use some additional mechanics, or maybe just his aoes should stay like in story.

    I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really, REALLY hope that elk-bear is just bugged.
    Even with 10 pugs, we only missed gold by 10-25 seconds.

    But I noticed another bug:
    The public instance didn't count the players (it always said 0), so it couldn't be started without pre-forming a squad.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    Adjusted the stats and damage of the boneskinner in the Boneskinner Strike Mission to closer match its intended difficulty. Changed how damage is inflicted on the boneskinner's Tormenting Aura mechanic to preserve the integrity of the intended fight mechanics.

    Anyone test it out yet?

    Edit: I just saw the fight streamed and it’s definitely harder although you can still avoid the mechanic if you don’t have a healer.

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Haven't tried it yet @Ayrilana.1396 but it sounds kinda bad if mechanics can still be skipped I guess.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    @Aaralyna.3104 said:
    Haven't tried it yet @Ayrilana.1396 but it sounds kinda bad if mechanics can still be skipped I guess.

    If you have a good healer, you can still skip the torch mechanic. Just saw it streamed again and they had to do that mechanic as they wiped fairly quickly when they skipped it.

    Edit: That second group fell apart as the commander rage quit because people kept getting downed. Only one person was doing the torches.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    OK, the Boneskinner is actually quite challenging right now, try it out, it makes you use your brain actually \o/

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Do you still get rewards if you have done it today?

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    Ha! party wiped in 20 seconds and half the squad left in annoyance. Prob didn't realise it had changed.
    More squad wipes, more rage quits. No one wants to do the mecahnics, just heal through it
    Gonna be a fun night :)

    edit

    Well best run was 35%. In the end, it was just too much going on at too fast a pace for a public instance with people coming and going. The mechanics are good and right, just too unforgiving to keep on top of for what is designed for pugs to do every day.
    No issues for a normal raid boss or fractal instance. But a public, I think maybe a bit too much given the rewards aren't worth the effort although I reserve full judgement until after a few days. I wouldn't do that daily for sure. Not sure how many would. It was fun trying though, so I will give it that - reminded me of the old days of when I actually did raids and sussing things out in mmos and chipping away at it.

    It is only day one though, so maybe after the weekend itll be smooth sailing. It is a cool fight.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    It's now actually quite punishing with that aura damage (more brütal than typical raid enrages if torches go out) and getting gold is no joke anymore. Kitty still got it done with a very experienced group of raiders with enough dps for gold. But in short, you'll need 115k squad dps for gold reward and the dps uptime is surprisingly limited so it can be really difficult to get that gold reward unless squad seriously knows their stuff and just surviving requires peoples to do the mechanic and healers to provide good amount of healing.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like it got overtuned. Noone will be doing it at this level of difficulty for such a paltry reward.

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Sounds like it got overtuned. Noone will be doing it at this level of difficulty for such a paltry reward.

    Yeah, except for all the people that are still doing it.

  • XDeathShadowX.2619XDeathShadowX.2619 Member
    edited December 6, 2019

    Felt the need to comment on this. I did the broken version yesterday and breezed through it, so I agree that it was trash and needed fixing. Today I joined a group on a whim and we got destroyed. I've only did a handful of raid bosses so I'm not expert but I feel like this is a bit much. The rewards are trash for the effort it takes to kill now. People are doing it but I imagine it's because:
    1. It's new and some people are trying to learn it, and many (like myself) don't know it was changed.
    2. It's still the newest map so people may want the currency.
    3. There's an achievement, I think, for killing all different strike bosses in the rotation.
    I'd like them to tune it between these, the boss should require mechanics to get people in the mindset of having a role to play, but the challenge and rewards need to be balanced. If it stays this hard with no better rewards nobody is going to do it. You'd be better off skipping this week and running the 2 easier ones. Hell, that's what people did with dungeons, running the 1-2 easy paths and the others rarely seeing the light of day, and those:
    1. Only required 5 people.
    2. Had almost no mechanics.
    3. Required no real party comp.
    4. Were relatively easy even on the "Hard" paths.
    5. Had arguably better rewards (Gold, ecto from salvage, and occasionally a rune set you couldn't get anywhere else).
    Who's going to get a party of 10 people with healers, high dps, and maybe require quick/alac and other such buffs just to get a few blues and greens and crappy ingots that only let you unlock some weapon skins and can be acquired in the LS map.
    Maybe in a few days enough people will know it that it will become a non-issue but it still seems like it'll be restrictive and present the same issue as starting out raiding does.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XDeathShadowX.2619 said:
    Felt the need to comment on this. I did the broken version yesterday and breezed through it, so I agree that it was trash and needed fixing. Today I joined a group on a whim and we got destroyed. I've only did a handful of raid bosses so I'm not expert but I feel like this is a bit much. The rewards are trash for the effort it takes to kill now. People are doing it but I imagine it's because:
    1. It's new and some people are trying to learn it, and many (like myself) don't know it was changed.
    2. It's still the newest map so people may want the currency.
    3. There's an achievement, I think, for killing all different strike bosses in the rotation.
    I'd like them to tune it between these, the boss should require mechanics to get people in the mindset of having a role to play, but the challenge and rewards need to be balanced. If it stays this hard with no better rewards nobody is going to do it. You'd be better off skipping this week and running the 2 easier ones. Hell, that's what people did with dungeons, running the 1-2 easy paths and the others rarely seeing the light of day, and those:
    1. Only required 5 people.
    2. Had almost no mechanics.
    3. Required no real party comp.
    4. Were relatively easy even on the "Hard" paths.
    5. Had arguably better rewards (Gold, ecto from salvage, and occasionally a rune set you couldn't get anywhere else).
    Who's going to get a party of 10 people with healers, high dps, and maybe require quick/alac and other such buffs just to get a few blues and greens and crappy ingots that only let you unlock some weapon skins and can be acquired in the LS map.
    Maybe in a few days enough people will know it that it will become a non-issue but it still seems like it'll be restrictive and present the same issue as starting out raiding does.

    Well you can craft bags with the ingots aswell.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2019

    If you're absolutely hard set on beating it without executing the mechanics properly, you can still stack scourges. Two of them should be able to hard carry the group but more wouldn't hurt either since you're not going to get your blues/greens bonus loot by doing this anyway.

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2019

    Did it today and on 1st try we had 1 healer and we were a bit allover the place coz use mechanic or not.... when most were downed we just gg. Then on retry we went 2 healer and just stacked like on old version and we got it down on gold. Ofc we now and then got downed shortly but we could use whisps to get up (and others ressing ofc). Difficulty wise I think its fine now. Rewards could be better but that goes for all strikes we have. On the Grothmar boss (with better rewards) I get the same loot as last boss really as I am not lucky with rng. I would like to see a strike missions currency where you can also buy those rare items with.

  • Wish at least the Boneskinner had better rewards. Since they upped the difficulty (via bug fix?) I need to give it a go finally.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    Gotta agree with the overall sentiment here: in terms of development expenses, dungeons were certainly the most complex and intricate mode, while raids downgraded it a bit trying to maintain at least a semblance of lore, and strikes is flat out fast food with no consequence whatsoever to anything other than the duration of the timer. The fact that so many were released so fast with no mention of ever getting a new raid again makes this all reek of desperation (did the raid team disband without key members? are both fractals and raids going the way of dungeons? Why not even state anything about it?).

    Anet wants to get content out fast, with as little effort as possible, on a budget, and Strikes seem to be just the mode for that, not dungeons, not raids, not fractals (predictions for if and when this forum is gonna be renamed to Strikes?). I guess an avid observer could have foreseen the logical conclusion of butchering dungeons in favor of fractals, and then streamlining it into a 10-man mode with optional lore and almost exclusively boss encounters. Players kind of got what they wanted, I guess? Strikes are faster than fractals, easier than raids, less elaborate than dungeons, just need to give 20g a boss now and we're set, lol! The only way this can be optimized further is if GW2 goes mobile, no sarcasm.

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭

    It's really weird on one hand I love and enjoy that the Boneskinner is deadly now compared to its first time out. On the other hand the idea behind it's mechanic with torch lighting became largely ignored/not worth doing in the various runs I've been in. Basically encouraging the group to stack healers to out heal the DPS and get downs up quicker(pugs). And the ideas of stirke missions were about being stepping stones to raids and teaching people mechanics/doing them.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2019

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    It's really weird on one hand I love and enjoy that the Boneskinner is deadly now compared to its first time out. On the other hand the idea behind it's mechanic with torch lighting became largely ignored/not worth doing in the various runs I've been in. Basically encouraging the group to stack healers to out heal the DPS and get downs up quicker(pugs). And the ideas of stirke missions were about being stepping stones to raids and teaching people mechanics/doing them.

    But for many raids that strategy works aswell. At vale guardian we even call it mechanic instead of cheese (overheal). You can raid with optimal group to get smooth and fast kills or you can cheese stuff with 3 healers or even with 3 healers and harrier chrono(s). This wont work against all bosses but it works against many.

    Many raid bosses has way too much time before the enrage so you dont even hit the enrage timer with 3 healers and even if you do, many bosses have a soft enrage that just adds some extra damage or stuff like that. Not all of them are like gorseval or largos where enrage means insta death.

    IMO this shows pretty well that raids are not actually that hard, its the optimized squad compositions that are hard for newer players. And if your goal is just get a raid kills instead of getting "pro" there is always room for little cheese.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • If you are using 3 healers in a raid, something is wrong

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Metasynaptic.1093 said:
    If you are using 3 healers in a raid, something is wrong

    For most bosses there is something wrong even with 2 healers but that was not my point.
    Point was that content is not hard, but it feels hard when inexperienced players are trying exp strats.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Metasynaptic.1093 said:
    If you are using 3 healers in a raid, something is wrong

    For most bosses there is something wrong even with 2 healers but that was not my point.
    Point was that content is not hard, but it feels hard when inexperienced players are trying exp strats.

    No the content is hard, until you are good enough to beat it. That's the same with anything that is hard or challenging.

    If you find it easy, that doesn't change whether the content is hard or not, it is a reflection of the greater skill or you, the team and the combined. You are simply a better player.

    And that is ultimately what normal instanced content is about.

    I'm still on the fence about Boneskinner since whilst I find it incredibly difficult and one of the hardest fights I've encountered in the game, I also really enjoyed the trying and part of me wants the satisfaction of beating it. The main issues revolve around it not being rewarding (why would I want the effort of repeating it?) and it not being complimentary to a public join system. You need a cohesive and usually a specific group make up - you can't just bung 10 randoms and expect to do it. Which kinda defeats the idea behind public strike missions which are designed to be completed by any group composition.

    All I do know is that it has brought the worst out in the community on both sides of the coin. People are being labelled "elitist", "toxic jerks", "useless noobs", idiots who refuse to get gud". It's a little unavoidable, but it certainly isn't the deign intention to segregate attitudes so severely. I think they even stated somewhere (guild chat maybe?) that's what they wanted to use Strike Missions to help avoid and reduce.

    I can live with it staying the difficulty if they incentivise repeat play better, but it's not been a good reflection on the community so far

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2019

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    It's really weird on one hand I love and enjoy that the Boneskinner is deadly now compared to its first time out. On the other hand the idea behind it's mechanic with torch lighting became largely ignored/not worth doing in the various runs I've been in. Basically encouraging the group to stack healers to out heal the DPS and get downs up quicker(pugs). And the ideas of stirke missions were about being stepping stones to raids and teaching people mechanics/doing them.

    But for many raids that strategy works aswell. At vale guardian we even call it mechanic instead of cheese (overheal). You can raid with optimal group to get smooth and fast kills or you can cheese stuff with 3 healers or even with 3 healers and harrier chrono(s). This wont work against all bosses but it works against many.

    Many raid bosses has way too much time before the enrage so you dont even hit the enrage timer with 3 healers and even if you do, many bosses have a soft enrage that just adds some extra damage or stuff like that. Not all of them are like gorseval or largos where enrage means insta death.

    IMO this shows pretty well that raids are not actually that hard, its the optimized squad compositions that are hard for newer players. And if your goal is just get a raid kills instead of getting "pro" there is always room for little cheese.

    That's not my point though. Why have mechanics and try to teach people about them if people are going to ignore and cheese them. When i expect mechanics I expect things like CM 100 where failing mechanics are punishing, like dropping the ball, or not killing the anomaly in time, not facing away and moving out of the AoE strip downing fear. Raid wise things like dealing with Mathias' sacrifice mechanic. The Boneskinner fight is supposed to be designed around keeping torches lit, yet forgoes that entirely because it's not worth doing it, and if you're trying to do it, it's normally bad to do because you're out of the healing stack and taking heaps of damage and going down often. I honestly think the way it should be is, keeping torches lit= extra damage to the Boneskinner and reducing the range and damage of its aura, but every unlit torch reduces damage it takes, and makes its aura stronger, and reduces incoming healing to players.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2019

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    Why have mechanics and try to teach people about them if people are going to ignore and cheese them.

    Because it's hard to cheese mechanics in a public mission where everyone can join with whatever terrible build they use with no consideration for group composition. And this is normal. What Strike Missions need is a much more punishing version (by more punishing I mean can't be cheesed primarily) for pre-made squads to fight in. While at it, the public version difficulty can be altered a bit so it's actually true public content. Right now the Boneskinner fight is too easy for experienced pre-made groups as they can cheese it easily, why it's probably too hard for random public groups, that can't cheese it, failing to appeal to both types of players.

    Edit: By pre-made I mean squad where players have multiple character ready and are willing and able to swap. Not every player has a healer ready to go and you can't expect in 10 random people to find 3 or 4 healers. Or ANY healer for that matter.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    Why have mechanics and try to teach people about them if people are going to ignore and cheese them.

    Because it's hard to cheese mechanics in a public mission where everyone can join with whatever terrible build they use with no consideration for group composition. And this is normal. What Strike Missions need is a much more punishing version (by more punishing I mean can't be cheesed primarily) for pre-made squads to fight in. While at it, the public version difficulty can be altered a bit so it's actually true public content. Right now the Boneskinner fight is too easy for experienced pre-made groups as they can cheese it easily, why it's probably too hard for random public groups, that can't cheese it, failing to appeal to both types of players.

    Edit: By pre-made I mean squad where players have multiple character ready and are willing and able to swap. Not every player has a healer ready to go and you can't expect in 10 random people to find 3 or 4 healers. Or ANY healer for that matter.

    Or just put it in as a challenge mode, rather than forcing premade squads into it.
    After all, public Strike Missions can bug out, stop counting players and thus prevent playing the Strike Mission.
    In case of such a bug, people need to make a squad outside.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Or just put it in as a challenge mode, rather than forcing premade squads into it.
    After all, public Strike Missions can bug out, stop counting players and thus prevent playing the Strike Mission.
    In case of such a bug, people need to make a squad outside.

    That can work too although Arenanet seems allergic to challenge modes recently

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    That can work too although Arenanet seems allergic to challenge modes recently

    I found it weird that Arenanet had put in some at all.
    They seemed to be allergic to difficulty options since days 1.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    That can work too although Arenanet seems allergic to challenge modes recently

    I found it weird that Arenanet had put in some at all.
    They seemed to be allergic to difficulty options since days 1.

    Nah. Orr maps were hard. Granted people in the early days of the game have at best rare gears.
    HoT maps and metas were pretty challenging at release too.

    But then again, they nerfed the maps' difficulty after a few months so there could be some truth to that.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • Honestly, the biggest difficulty about Bonesrskinner was people doing proper DPS rotations and assigned roles actually doing their jobs. Sometimes it feels like the community's been neutered on that front.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @borgs.6103 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    That can work too although Arenanet seems allergic to challenge modes recently

    I found it weird that Arenanet had put in some at all.
    They seemed to be allergic to difficulty options since days 1.

    Nah. Orr maps were hard. Granted people in the early days of the game have at best rare gears.
    HoT maps and metas were pretty challenging at release too.

    But then again, they nerfed the maps' difficulty after a few months so there could be some truth to that.

    Orr maps still had only 1 difficulty.
    Just like HoT maps, PoF maps and raids only have one difficulty, no options between harder or easier versions.