(video) Build templates, and why the design is horrible in it's current state. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

(video) Build templates, and why the design is horrible in it's current state.

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Comments

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    People wanted to pay a fair once off price...not have templates character bound and limited to 6.

    Ah then a lesson to be learnt. Maybe people should of been a bit more forthcoming with saying ' I want Build templates' and not giving a detailed account on how they would what these implemented, cost etc.

    @Linken.6345 said:

    Maybe the ones wanting to pay for it and the ones now chucking it back in their faces are not the same people?

    Your guess is as good as mine. Not seeing many folk agreeing with it, mind.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.
    Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.
    Much ado about nothing.
    Again.

    They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.
    You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.
    The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

    How do you think the game is supported? Dust?
    personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

  • @Dami.5046 said:
    How do you think the game is supported? Dust?
    personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

    If the game needs money so badly, that they have to monetize a feature that should have been part of the game since launch, it shouldnt be supported anyway. At least in my opinion.
    I think the game is running quite good with the current gemstore. Sales are consistent according to NCSoft.

    People used a third party program because anet was either incapable or didnt want to provide templates.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.
    Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.
    Much ado about nothing.
    Again.

    They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.
    You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.
    The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

    And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

    You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character for free(max 6 per character, both of them). And also 3 (+3 for a month after release, max 24) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.
    Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

  • @Miellyn.6847 said:
    And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

    You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.
    Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

    I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.
    The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.
    So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.
    Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.
    Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.

    That might not be that much of an issue if you dont have legendary gear. You can just keep the stuff in your inventory and swap it rather quickly.
    If you do however have legendary gear, its takes ages because the UI is garbage.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    How do you think the game is supported? Dust?

    Expansions, skins, LW episodes.

    personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

    luckily it's not on you to decide what other players should be allowed to use.

    Yes it's really lucky I don't have a say or there wouldn't be DPS meters here as well.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

    You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.
    Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

    I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.

    Character builds and account wide build storage are still not the same thing.

    The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.
    So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.
    Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.
    Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.

    It's actually funny that you picked the two classes where Arc is the least useful as it can't handle pets and legends. I play both of them and I'm fine switching it manually between 3 sets on each character. Having no dublicate skins between the armor sets massively helps.

  • mtpelion.4562mtpelion.4562 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nick.5276 said:
    The code for the build template system was already there from GW1,

    I thought that this was the funniest thing I've read yet in one of these complaint threads until I saw:

    GW2 does not need to make money to continue to be in business. As long as the balance sheet balances, they are good to go. New features don't even need new money, just move the focus of features around on the schedule. Clear plans, forecasts and asset allocation are essential for good work practice, but I shouldn't have to remind them of that.

    I mean, come on guys. There are legitimate concerns to voice and then there is... this.

  • @Miellyn.6847 said:
    Character builds and account wide build storage are still not the same thing.

    So? What if i dont want account wide storage? Do i have to wait another 7 years?

    It's actually funny that you picked the two classes where Arc is the least useful as it can't handle pets and legends. I play both of them and I'm fine switching it manually between 3 sets on each character. Having no dublicate skins between the armor sets massively helps.

    I admit, its nice that anets templates can swap pets and legends. However thats not that big of a deal.
    Did you even read further than that? I wrote that swapping armor isnt that much of an issue unless you have something legendary.

    Ascended Trinkets are another issue though. The raid trinkets look exactly the same but can have different stats. Thats already super annoying to swap.

  • While I can agree that Nick takes it to the extreme with the whole "y'all don't need more money yo" thing, I don't like the future of the game if every feature is going to be monetized like that. It reminds me of BDO and how bad it is when a game is more business than game. There's already so much that is exclusive to the cash shop, do we really need more?

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.
    Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.
    Much ado about nothing.
    Again.

    They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.
    You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.
    The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

    How do you think the game is supported? Dust?
    personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

    I am surprised their lawyers ever allowed them to let players use a 3rd party program. I would imagine they had to make sure and say Arenanet was not responsible for any loss or damage to the account?

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Bobzitto.8571 said:
    While I can agree that Nick takes it to the extreme with the whole "y'all don't need more money yo" thing, I don't like the future of the game if every feature is going to be monetized like that. It reminds me of BDO and how bad it is when a game is more business than game. There's already so much that is exclusive to the cash shop, do we really need more?

    Lets implant the WoW version then .
    Yoiu start with a single baseline talent tree sheet
    You have to pay extra with gold for another sheet (1000 gold)
    (doing Mithic Dungeons awarded you with 12 gold, i dont know in 99/100 Fractals how many gold you get here as comparison)
    If you want to ''reset'' a single talent tree , you pay 1gold>next time , 10> 100 gold and it stays there.
    After not .touching it/reseting for 1 month it drops in 50 gold and keep lowering for every 15 days afterwards
    (havent played after Panderia)

    (edit: personality i wont pay money or even buy it with gold . But any goldsink mechanic to try to keep steady the gold/gem conversion is very welcomed .We dont want to become like china in the first when HoT was launched (1000 gold for 100 gems)
    I need more flower costumes to buy with gold instead:P

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Kidel.2057Kidel.2057 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't understand 2 things

    1. Why would I ever pay for more template slots? I can simply export my build on a txt and have an infinite amount (sure, I can reach the limit of 1 copypaste per hour, but still I don't go around swapping among 300 builds every minute)
    2. Why did I make a legendary armor? It's way more convenient to have multiple ascended sets, you get more slot advantage and also different skins.

    Legendary armors should be able to swap skin. Transmutation charges are a funny currency, I have like 300+ unused, and I waste a lot of them. Just make them included in legendary gear.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.
    Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.
    Much ado about nothing.
    Again.

    They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.
    You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.
    The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

    How do you think the game is supported? Dust?
    personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

    I am surprised their lawyers ever allowed them to let players use a 3rd party program. I would imagine they had to make sure and say Arenanet was not responsible for any loss or damage to the account?

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.
    Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.
    Much ado about nothing.
    Again.

    They are taking away my option (arc) and give me something thats not only inferior, but also something i have to pay for if i want to use it properly.
    You dont get enough free storage for one build on every class, let alone the Elite specialization.
    The system just screams: "Gib moneys"

    How do you think the game is supported? Dust?
    personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

    I am surprised their lawyers ever allowed them to let players use a 3rd party program. I would imagine they had to make sure and say Arenanet was not responsible for any loss or damage to the account?

    sarcasm?

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

    You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.
    Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

    I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.

    Character builds and account wide build storage are still not the same thing.

    The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.
    So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.
    Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.
    Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.

    It's actually funny that you picked the two classes where Arc is the least useful as it can't handle pets and legends. I play both of them and I'm fine switching it manually between 3 sets on each character. Having no dublicate skins between the armor sets massively helps.

    Miellyn, you are long enough into the game, forums and GW2 scene + actually should have the competence to notice that their system is inferior compared to ArcDPS as a whole and especially regarding the equipment "templates" which are loadouts that change themselves once you change an equipment piece. I don't know what to say about people who can actually support this heavy flaw in their system. 2 years of development for that? They cannot be serious about that.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    I don't understand 2 things

    1. Why would I ever pay for more template slots? I can simply export my build on a txt and have an infinite amount (sure, I can reach the limit of 1 copypaste per hour, but still I don't go around swapping among 300 builds every minute)

    Wait. There’s a timegate on how often you can copy/paste builds?

    1. Why did I make a legendary armor? It's way more convenient to have multiple ascended sets, you get more slot advantage and also different skins.

    As far as I’m aware, you cannot have two equipment templates that utilize different sigils/runes using the same equipment piece for ascended tier equipment. That feature is only available for legendary tier. So if you want to swap between one ascended armor having one rune, and it using another, you need two ascended armor sets.

    As for ascended armor sets, having multiple has always been quicker and cheaper. You only save on inventory space with legendary armor.

  • @Dami.5046 said:
    I think you will find the original Guildwars templates that some of you keep harping on about were less complicated for one - skills only no armour or weapons - a code you just saved to a file.
    These took much longer to develop and are not only skills right? They change everything from skills to armour to weapon and more.
    You can't say you want some thing and even pay for it then complain when anet listens that you have to pay for it.

    GW1 had gear template as well. The template feature in gw1 is complete. Nothing is missing, gear, skills, attributes, even for heroes and you can share the template to another person simply by sending the file or just the template string with a copy paste. It's simple, ergonomic and doesn't takes much resources.

    The only reason they made it overcomplicated in gw2 was to justify the price. We didn't ask for it like that, this isn't what people had in mind when they thought of a template feature.
    I would have been fine with a one off price, like 800 gems for single limit of 100 builds per char. Seriously, a buy or not should be enough. If they need my money they make an expansion, I'll happy paid 60€ for more content.

    But really that feature should have been core, especially since it was free in GW1.

    And by the way for all the additional bank storage being for sale arguments. Guys, GW1 had bank storage for sale too, but they still gave us the template feature for free. They really should stick with skins, that stuff generates money, give us the features for free, we'll buy your skins.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    How do you think the game is supported? Dust?

    Expansions, skins, LW episodes.

    personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

    luckily it's not on you to decide what other players should be allowed to use.

    Yes it's really lucky I don't have a say or there wouldn't be DPS meters here as well.

    No matter if the dps meter is there or not, if someone is doing low damage and the rest of the group has to literally piggyback them they are still getting kicked. You can't hide that. So sure, take it away, but that doesn't stop players from kicking others that waste time.

    Literally a fruitless effort.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be honest, those with over a dozen builds for a single class, where the difference is a utility equipped or something minor, I’d say they fall under the extreme minority.

  • @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.

    You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.
    Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.

    I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.
    The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.
    So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.
    Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.
    Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.

    That might not be that much of an issue if you dont have legendary gear. You can just keep the stuff in your inventory and swap it rather quickly.
    If you do however have legendary gear, its takes ages because the UI is garbage.

    And furthermore what do you do with support chrono which reqire 10 geartemplates minimum (mine has 31)

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sajah varel.9261 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I think you will find the original Guildwars templates that some of you keep harping on about were less complicated for one - skills only no armour or weapons - a code you just saved to a file.
    These took much longer to develop and are not only skills right? They change everything from skills to armour to weapon and more.
    You can't say you want some thing and even pay for it then complain when anet listens that you have to pay for it.

    GW1 had gear template as well. The template feature in gw1 is complete. Nothing is missing, gear, skills, attributes, even for heroes and you can share the template to another person simply by sending the file or just the template string with a copy paste. It's simple, ergonomic and doesn't takes much resources.

    The only reason they made it overcomplicated in gw2 was to justify the price. We didn't ask for it like that, this isn't what people had in mind when they thought of a template feature.
    I would have been fine with a one off price, like 800 gems for single limit of 100 builds per char. Seriously, a buy or not should be enough. If they need my money they make an expansion, I'll happy paid 60€ for more content.

    But really that feature should have been core, especially since it was free in GW1.

    And by the way for all the additional bank storage being for sale arguments. Guys, GW1 had bank storage for sale too, but they still gave us the template feature for free. They really should stick with skins, that stuff generates money, give us the features for free, we'll buy your skins.

    So who are you trolling here? Me or arenanet?

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    How do you think the game is supported? Dust?

    Expansions, skins, LW episodes.

    personally I feel no one should of been using a third party program anyway.

    luckily it's not on you to decide what other players should be allowed to use.

    Yes it's really lucky I don't have a say or there wouldn't be DPS meters here as well.

    No matter if the dps meter is there or not, if someone is doing low damage and the rest of the group has to literally piggyback them they are still getting kicked. You can't hide that. So sure, take it away, but that doesn't stop players from kicking others that waste time.

    Literally a fruitless effort.

    I disagree. But a discussion for another time, no?

  • vyncius.6105vyncius.6105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Patty.3268 said:
    Besides what others already said, you get some free slots and only have to pay for extra slots. It's the same with bag or character slots, and as far as I remember, there weren't many complaints about having to pay for extra slots there. If there have been any at all.

    Thats not a problem for most people, that we will have to pay. Problem we have its only 6 gear templates per character, and these are character bound, so if i play 3 characters that atleast use 6 different builds (my rev has 5 builds alone for raids, and 11 in total), then we have a problem, its going to be very expensive. Because lets be real we all know that gear template price most likely will be 400 gems. That would be atleast 44 euros for my revenant alone

  • @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    people wanted these and some even said they would pay
    Some people moan Anet don't listen.
    I say next time be careful what you wish for.

    That has been my experience with anet so far. Be careful what you ask for, because Anet will find a way to change it into something you definitely didn't want.

    Didn't want? You mean asked for something and claim they would pay to get anet motivated to develop it only to chuck it back in their faces?
    Not understanding what part of these templates wasn't asked for?
    People wanted templates - check
    people said they would pay - check
    people never happy - check check check.

    People wanted to pay a fair once off price...not have templates character bound and limited to 6.

    You realize its 6 PER character right?

    Not 6 across all characters...

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I literally laughed out loud at the claim that a business does not need to make money to continue to exist.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @PeerlessArch.6547 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    people wanted these and some even said they would pay
    Some people moan Anet don't listen.
    I say next time be careful what you wish for.

    That has been my experience with anet so far. Be careful what you ask for, because Anet will find a way to change it into something you definitely didn't want.

    Didn't want? You mean asked for something and claim they would pay to get anet motivated to develop it only to chuck it back in their faces?
    Not understanding what part of these templates wasn't asked for?
    People wanted templates - check
    people said they would pay - check
    people never happy - check check check.

    People wanted to pay a fair once off price...not have templates character bound and limited to 6.

    You realize its 6 PER character right?

    Not 6 across all characters...

    There have been many examples given, showimg 6 is not enough.
    And having to buy them PER character is wrong.

    Many mesmer mains have 15+ builds.

    People who play all game modes can easily have 10+ builds

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wakani.1829 said:

    Let's be clear here,

    ArenaNet has NOT commented on wether the ''free'' +3 build templates, is something that will apply to ALL characters on your account, and judging from previous QoL monetization from them, it wont, wich means if you got one of each character, youll have 8 characters with 3 slots, and 1 with 6.

    In the blog post, the wording is:

    "Unlike Build Template tabs, Build Storage can hold templates of any profession and can be accessed by any character on your account. You can copy, rename, clear, or inspect them the same way you would a Build Template tab, and copy and paste a template to and from tabs and storage (provided your character is the appropriate profession to apply the template to a tab).

    Your account will have access to three Build Storage Spaces for free. To obtain more, you can purchase them in packs of three in the Gem Store. For a limited time after release, you’ll be able to pick up a free pack in the Gem Store for a total of six free Build Storage Spaces." Italics added by me.

    Clearly, the free 3-pack is to be the account-wide Build Storage Spaces, not character-specific Build Templates. It looks like ANet is using the term "Tab" to refer to character specific Templates and "Space" to refer to account-wide build storage.

    ArenaNet has PURPOSEFULLY been vague about the prices of the build templates, if you actually knew anything about monetization and gaming, you'd know for a fact, that they iron out costs as they develop the system, so they've known WHAT BALL PARK, they were looking at, for 2 years, and are still not saying anything. thats 95% because they know it aint consumer friendly, and it aint something we'd accept.

    It stands to reason that if the prices are intended to be dirt-cheap, a company would say so. This is ANet PR, though, and their history with respect to informing players thoroughly ahead of time is spotty. Still, it is not a bad idea to expect a pricier fee.

    Just how pricey, and just how much overall expenditure will be required to max what the system offers (which will still not match what the 3rd party add-on provided) remains to be seen. I'm not hopeful, given the gem store trend of higher-ticket offerings over the past 3-4 years. Economically, the practice of generating more revenue per item sold can be the result of the so-called "money grab," and it can also be the result of trying to maintain revenue levels with a declining paying customer base.

    I don't believe that the game's player count is as bad as doom 'n gloom posts on the forums say. Sure, all games lose customers over time. However, I don't need to believe player numbers are way down to believe that alternative revenue sources to maintain a status quo are needed. Some gem store revenue comes from cosmetics, which are chancy. Most of the rest comes from convenience items. The game has been around a long time. A lot of people have maxed bag, bank and shared inventory slots, and have already gotten whatever other convenience items they want. That means that convenience revenue is down. To maintain revenue to meet costs and satisfy the parent company's desire to show profitability, something has to replace it. Thus, the bigger ticket items, and now, new convenience items.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    I don't understand 2 things

    1. Why would I ever pay for more template slots? I can simply export my build on a txt and have an infinite amount (sure, I can reach the limit of 1 copypaste per hour, but still I don't go around swapping among 300 builds every minute)

    Wait. There’s a timegate on how often you can copy/paste builds?

    There's the spam protection filter.

    1. Why did I make a legendary armor? It's way more convenient to have multiple ascended sets, you get more slot advantage and also different skins.

    As far as I’m aware, you cannot have two equipment templates that utilize different sigils/runes using the same equipment piece for ascended tier equipment. That feature is only available for legendary tier. So if you want to swap between one ascended armor having one rune, and it using another, you need two ascended armor sets.

    So? it's not like 2 (or even6) ascended sets aren't still quite cheaper than a single legendary one.

    As for ascended armor sets, having multiple has always been quicker and cheaper. You only save on inventory space with legendary armor.

    Indeed, but now that consideration has been removed. Legendary now offers advantage only if you need more than 6 different gear loadouts. And that's only because template system simply won't work for as many.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    I don't understand 2 things

    1. Why would I ever pay for more template slots? I can simply export my build on a txt and have an infinite amount (sure, I can reach the limit of 1 copypaste per hour, but still I don't go around swapping among 300 builds every minute)

    Wait. There’s a timegate on how often you can copy/paste builds?

    There's the spam protection filter.

    That’s for chat only. I don’t recall it applying to stuff in the UI.

    1. Why did I make a legendary armor? It's way more convenient to have multiple ascended sets, you get more slot advantage and also different skins.

    As far as I’m aware, you cannot have two equipment templates that utilize different sigils/runes using the same equipment piece for ascended tier equipment. That feature is only available for legendary tier. So if you want to swap between one ascended armor having one rune, and it using another, you need two ascended armor sets.

    So? it's not like 2 (or even6) ascended sets aren't still quite cheaper than a single legendary one.

    As I said later in my post, it’s usually almost always cheaper to have multiple ascended sets than legendary. I don’t see why you singled out this part, made an argument against it, then ignored what I said later in my post.

    As for ascended armor sets, having multiple has always been quicker and cheaper. You only save on inventory space with legendary armor.

    Indeed, but now that consideration has been removed. Legendary now offers advantage only if you need more than 6 different gear loadouts. And that's only because template system simply won't work for as many.

    That is one benefit that the new templates will provide which lessens the benefits of legendary armor.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    I don't understand 2 things

    1. Why would I ever pay for more template slots? I can simply export my build on a txt and have an infinite amount (sure, I can reach the limit of 1 copypaste per hour, but still I don't go around swapping among 300 builds every minute)

    Wait. There’s a timegate on how often you can copy/paste builds?

    There's the spam protection filter.

    1. Why did I make a legendary armor? It's way more convenient to have multiple ascended sets, you get more slot advantage and also different skins.

    As far as I’m aware, you cannot have two equipment templates that utilize different sigils/runes using the same equipment piece for ascended tier equipment. That feature is only available for legendary tier. So if you want to swap between one ascended armor having one rune, and it using another, you need two ascended armor sets.

    So? it's not like 2 (or even6) ascended sets aren't still quite cheaper than a single legendary one.

    As for ascended armor sets, having multiple has always been quicker and cheaper. You only save on inventory space with legendary armor.

    Indeed, but now that consideration has been removed. Legendary now offers advantage only if you need more than 6 different gear loadouts. And that's only because template system simply won't work for as many.

    You could make 7 sets of ascended armor for the price of one ledgendary set of armor.

    Or 6 sets complete with +9 agony infusion.

    Now if you're doing +9s and +5(whatever stat), that's where the advantahe could come in of those are shared between armor sets.

    So its not much difference...but it does mean theres not much advantage to legendary, aside from being able to change stats easily every time the meta changes.

    Many people would say this is how it should be and that ledgies should not offer any advantages.

  • Patty.3268Patty.3268 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    You lie by omission then accuse me of twisting facts all while ignoring what I have actually said. There are countless examples of how the template system is insubstantial and cumbersome. Respect them if you want to treated with any seriousness.

    I would really like to hear where exactly I lied? Because according to the stream, we get 3 account and character build templates each and 2 equipment templates for free. As of now, we only need to pay for additional slots. So saying we need to pay to get it to work on a basic level is just not true. It will work without paying at all.

    I would also like to hear your suggestions on how the system could be even easier than it will be? In the stream, it was specifically stated and shown that the templates will mimic what a player needs to do manually now. Right now, you can switch traits, utility skills, equipment and the game will remember your choices. There are confirmation windows when attempting to override parts of your equipment (e.g. placing a rune in non-legendary armor), but besides that, you can switch things without even hitting a save button or anything like that. In my opinion, that's as simple as it can get. And templates will work exactly like that. The difference is, now we only have one template slot, when templates go live we have up to six. But they will work the same way.

    And I do respect other people's opinion. For instance, I can understand that only up to 6 character slots is not enough for some players, but the amount of available slots doesn't have any influence on how easy it is to create a template. What I won't respect is when people start twisting facts to make their opinion more valid. And claiming we need to pay for templates to get them to work, like a few posters did, is definitely twisting a fact.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    Well, we actually do get an easy and functional system and we don't need pay for the basic version, just for extra slots.

    It's "easy and functional" only for people that don't have much use of it. For those that did have an use for it, it's anything but. And as for "basic version for free", if the fully unlocked version is way too limited, what do you think the "basic version" is?
    For me, it's like those those treats you sometimes being offered in shops for free. Enough to feel the taste, but not helping at all if you were hungry. Nothing more than a promotional advertisement.

    What exactly means limited for you? The maximum number of available slots? As above, I totally get that 6 is not enough for some players, but that has no influence on how easy or hard it is to use a template.

    Something constructive on that matter: Would it be an option to increase the number of avaible slots to much higher numbers and have the gem price for addtional slots scale with the number of slots you already have? So the more slots you have, the higher the price, with a set upper price limit and a low price for the first slots? Something similar to buying skills on new character in gw1.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Patty.3268 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    You lie by omission then accuse me of twisting facts all while ignoring what I have actually said. There are countless examples of how the template system is insubstantial and cumbersome. Respect them if you want to treated with any seriousness.

    I would really like to hear where exactly I lied? Because according to the stream, we get 3 account and character build templates each and 2 equipment templates for free. As of now, we only need to pay for additional slots. So saying we need to pay to get it to work on a basic level is just not true. It will work without paying at all.

    I would also like to hear your suggestions on how the system could be even easier than it will be? In the stream, it was specifically stated and shown that the templates will mimic what a player needs to do manually now. Right now, you can switch traits, utility skills, equipment and the game will remember your choices. There are confirmation windows when attempting to override parts of your equipment (e.g. placing a rune in non-legendary armor), but besides that, you can switch things without even hitting a save button or anything like that. In my opinion, that's as simple as it can get. And templates will work exactly like that. The difference is, now we only have one template slot, when templates go live we have up to six. But they will work the same way.

    And I do respect other people's opinion. For instance, I can understand that only up to 6 character slots is not enough for some players, but the amount of available slots doesn't have any influence on how easy it is to create a template. What I won't respect is when people start twisting facts to make their opinion more valid. And claiming we need to pay for templates to get them to work, like a few posters did, is definitely twisting a fact.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    Well, we actually do get an easy and functional system and we don't need pay for the basic version, just for extra slots.

    It's "easy and functional" only for people that don't have much use of it. For those that did have an use for it, it's anything but. And as for "basic version for free", if the fully unlocked version is way too limited, what do you think the "basic version" is?
    For me, it's like those those treats you sometimes being offered in shops for free. Enough to feel the taste, but not helping at all if you were hungry. Nothing more than a promotional advertisement.

    What exactly means limited for you? The maximum number of available slots? As above, I totally get that 6 is not enough for some players, but that has no influence on how easy or hard it is to use a template.

    Something constructive on that matter: Would it be an option to increase the number of avaible slots to much higher numbers and have the gem price for addtional slots scale with the number of slots you already have? So the more slots you have, the higher the price, with a set upper price limit and a low price for the first slots? Something similar to buying skills on new character in gw1.

    That punishes hardcore players and loyal spenders even more....are you crazy?

    If anything buying more should get cheaper.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Patty.3268 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    You lie by omission then accuse me of twisting facts all while ignoring what I have actually said. There are countless examples of how the template system is insubstantial and cumbersome. Respect them if you want to treated with any seriousness.

    I would really like to hear where exactly I lied? Because according to the stream, we get 3 account and character build templates each and 2 equipment templates for free. As of now, we only need to pay for additional slots. So saying we need to pay to get it to work on a basic level is just not true. It will work without paying at all.

    I would also like to hear your suggestions on how the system could be even easier than it will be? In the stream, it was specifically stated and shown that the templates will mimic what a player needs to do manually now. Right now, you can switch traits, utility skills, equipment and the game will remember your choices. There are confirmation windows when attempting to override parts of your equipment (e.g. placing a rune in non-legendary armor), but besides that, you can switch things without even hitting a save button or anything like that. In my opinion, that's as simple as it can get. And templates will work exactly like that. The difference is, now we only have one template slot, when templates go live we have up to six. But they will work the same way.

    And I do respect other people's opinion. For instance, I can understand that only up to 6 character slots is not enough for some players, but the amount of available slots doesn't have any influence on how easy it is to create a template. What I won't respect is when people start twisting facts to make their opinion more valid. And claiming we need to pay for templates to get them to work, like a few posters did, is definitely twisting a fact.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    Well, we actually do get an easy and functional system and we don't need pay for the basic version, just for extra slots.

    It's "easy and functional" only for people that don't have much use of it. For those that did have an use for it, it's anything but. And as for "basic version for free", if the fully unlocked version is way too limited, what do you think the "basic version" is?
    For me, it's like those those treats you sometimes being offered in shops for free. Enough to feel the taste, but not helping at all if you were hungry. Nothing more than a promotional advertisement.

    What exactly means limited for you? The maximum number of available slots? As above, I totally get that 6 is not enough for some players, but that has no influence on how easy or hard it is to use a template.

    Something constructive on that matter: Would it be an option to increase the number of avaible slots to much higher numbers and have the gem price for addtional slots scale with the number of slots you already have? So the more slots you have, the higher the price, with a set upper price limit and a low price for the first slots? Something similar to buying skills on new character in gw1.

    That punishes hardcore players and loyal spenders even more....are you crazy?

    If anything buying more should get cheaper.

    Yea, buying more slots should be cheaper and they should do a buy more at once and get more per gem. That way it benefits those who are coming off of arc who have a lot of templates by making it cheaper to at least reach maximum number of slots since they will likely be mass purchasing if they choose to expand to max.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    @YMIHere.9580 said:
    I mean that in a completely selfish way as Arc build templates have been a choice I've ignored for fear of trashing my gear.

    Swapping items can't trash your gear as those items were never placed in limbo, hence cannot disappear. They were simply swapped.

    This separate armory stops the kickback of gear into the junk pile, and makes the quick swaps a reality for me now. I don't want it to come at the expense of other peoples' choices as far as Arc goes, but in a vacuum it seems like a good system to me.

    You don't get it, do you?

    ArcDPS:

    • Load a template. Skills, Traits and Gear will be swapped at once.
    • Gear that's been taken off lands in the exact inventory slots as the gear you swapped it for (i.e., as if you had manually double-clicked the slot and had swapped the item - simple).
    • If you want to share ascended or legendary gear across characters, simply drag it into the bank. Your saved templates remain untouched by this action.

    GW2 system:

    • Load a build template. Load a gear template separately (additional clicks).
    • Gear lands in a new storage = additional hassle to find what you are looking for (you can't sort it as tidily as items in your inventory), very time-consuming. Your items are now in different places (unused ones in your inventory, used ones in the equipment storage).
    • Requires separate equipment slots even for legendary gear if you want different stats for different builds (which takes the purpose of legendary gear ab absurdum, you could as well be using two ascended sets instead; of course, you could simply keep swapping stats manually, but you don't need templates for that, plus it's more time-consuming than using non-legendary gear).
    • If you want to share ascended or legendary gear across characters, you first need to find it in either the equipment storage or one of your character's equipment tabs or inventory, then drag it into your bank. This will unlink it from any gear templates you have created on that character, and you will need to create them all over again every single time (you can't even save that information in your shared build storage to the left, regardless of its 24-slot limit, because that's Skills and Traits only).
  • Nick.5276Nick.5276 Member ✭✭

    @mtpelion.4562 said:

    @Nick.5276 said:
    The code for the build template system was already there from GW1,

    I thought that this was the funniest thing I've read yet in one of these complaint threads until I saw:

    GW2 does not need to make money to continue to be in business. As long as the balance sheet balances, they are good to go. New features don't even need new money, just move the focus of features around on the schedule. Clear plans, forecasts and asset allocation are essential for good work practice, but I shouldn't have to remind them of that.

    I mean, come on guys. There are legitimate concerns to voice and then there is... this.

    Thought I'd follow up on this one as it seems to be a touchstone.
    Is the video poster wrong about the code already being in the GW2 engine? if it's not there then you have my apologies, I was wrong. If it is there though, why haven't they used what already exists?

    Not making a profit
    There are dozens of business models where the business does not make money but they are a business. Often with shareholders and investors. In fact many non-profit organisations, FIFA for example, have billions of dollars and are non-profit. Many businesses have run in the red for years to build up enough of a market to be able to run in the black, Amazon for example. Their future success has been no more assured than any business starting in the black.
    The accepted business "Model" does not exist when profit can legally be declared re-investment, the tax for that re-investment then written off for a % refund and government support then claimed as the business does not make a "profit"
    I'm not saying this is what Anet does. I am saying that a business HAS to make a profit is something that died in the what...1600th C

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    The game shares the same engine, in a way, but this doesn’t mean the code is in the game. Both games uses a different UI and the skill system is different as well.

  • Nick.5276Nick.5276 Member ✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Bobzitto.8571 said:
    While I can agree that Nick takes it to the extreme with the whole "y'all don't need more money yo" thing, I don't like the future of the game if every feature is going to be monetized like that. It reminds me of BDO and how bad it is when a game is more business than game. There's already so much that is exclusive to the cash shop, do we really need more?

    Lets implant the WoW version then .
    Yoiu start with a single baseline talent tree sheet
    You have to pay extra with gold for another sheet (1000 gold)
    (doing Mithic Dungeons awarded you with 12 gold, i dont know in 99/100 Fractals how many gold you get here as comparison)
    If you want to ''reset'' a single talent tree , you pay 1gold>next time , 10> 100 gold and it stays there.
    After not .touching it/reseting for 1 month it drops in 50 gold and keep lowering for every 15 days afterwards
    (havent played after Panderia)

    (edit: personality i wont pay money or even buy it with gold . But any goldsink mechanic to try to keep steady the gold/gem conversion is very welcomed .We dont want to become like china in the first when HoT was launched (1000 gold for 100 gems)
    I need more flower costumes to buy with gold instead:P

    This whole response confuses me
    WoW and GW2 version
    You start with 3 baseline talent trees - so no, you are wrong
    You have to pay to get more - No you didn't. 3 from the start, same as GW
    If you want to reset a single tree you pay - WoW did charge and then dumped it. GW - ingame currency at the start but shortly thereafter, it's free.
    Additional features have been added to WoW and the subscription has not changed. Some features at expansion release, when you would expect, and others as time has passed between expansions.

    Aside from that you only ever got more features in WoW and the subscription never changed price. Those features, backed into the WoW engine were often better than what mod makers offered by giving support for lost items, account recovery etc.

    Aside from dealing with replies like this which I'd rather not see muddying the waters in this issue, I'd like to see concerned people keep the topic alive if only to make it apparent that it is not an acceptable feature in it's current state of currency cost, design or closing out competition who can do the job better(ArcDPS).

  • Patty.3268Patty.3268 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    That punishes hardcore players and loyal spenders even more....are you crazy?

    If anything buying more should get cheaper.

    No, I'm not. If slots start out more expensive and become cheaper the more you buy, that instead punishes non-hardcore players who only need a few additional slots instead of large numbers. There are a lot more non-hardcore players than hardcore players and loyal spenders. I was looking at it taking all types of players into account, not just some. I agree that my approach would make templates more expensive for hardcore players, but would also increase availability of additional slots for the overall player base by having lower entry prizes.

  • @Patty.3268 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    That punishes hardcore players and loyal spenders even more....are you crazy?

    If anything buying more should get cheaper.

    No, I'm not. If slots start out more expensive and become cheaper the more you buy, that instead punishes non-hardcore players who only need a few additional slots instead of large numbers. There are a lot more non-hardcore players than hardcore players and loyal spenders. I was looking at it taking all types of players into account, not just some. I agree that my approach would make templates more expensive for hardcore players, but would also increase availability of additional slots for the overall player base by having lower entry prizes.

    Well, even If one gear template is for 200 gems. I would spend 5800 gems just to have same number of gear templates as I have now.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Pointed out in the video, the biggest flaw is that when you remove legendaries from an equipment slot to use on a different character, it forgets what it is. If you want to reuse you have to set up all your builds again.

    Equipment slots need to memorize the configuration even when you take the stuff off. Just gray them out if you don't have the gear available.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Patty.3268 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    That punishes hardcore players and loyal spenders even more....are you crazy?

    If anything buying more should get cheaper.

    No, I'm not. If slots start out more expensive and become cheaper the more you buy, that instead punishes non-hardcore players who only need a few additional slots instead of large numbers. There are a lot more non-hardcore players than hardcore players and loyal spenders. I was looking at it taking all types of players into account, not just some. I agree that my approach would make templates more expensive for hardcore players, but would also increase availability of additional slots for the overall player base by having lower entry prizes.

    Non hardcore players aren't going to need many builds tho... so they don't need to increase availablility for those who only need 2 or 3 builds.....

    I used to think there were less hard core players than casual, but after looking at completion stats, I'm really not so sure.

    Thats doesn't change that it is wrong to expect the most dedicated players to pays hundreds to use the many builds they have.

  • mtpelion.4562mtpelion.4562 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nick.5276 said:

    @mtpelion.4562 said:

    @Nick.5276 said:
    The code for the build template system was already there from GW1,

    I thought that this was the funniest thing I've read yet in one of these complaint threads until I saw:

    GW2 does not need to make money to continue to be in business. As long as the balance sheet balances, they are good to go. New features don't even need new money, just move the focus of features around on the schedule. Clear plans, forecasts and asset allocation are essential for good work practice, but I shouldn't have to remind them of that.

    I mean, come on guys. There are legitimate concerns to voice and then there is... this.

    Thought I'd follow up on this one as it seems to be a touchstone.
    Is the video poster wrong about the code already being in the GW2 engine? if it's not there then you have my apologies, I was wrong. If it is there though, why haven't they used what already exists?

    Not making a profit
    There are dozens of business models where the business does not make money but they are a business. Often with shareholders and investors. In fact many non-profit organisations, FIFA for example, have billions of dollars and are non-profit. Many businesses have run in the red for years to build up enough of a market to be able to run in the black, Amazon for example. Their future success has been no more assured than any business starting in the black.
    The accepted business "Model" does not exist when profit can legally be declared re-investment, the tax for that re-investment then written off for a % refund and government support then claimed as the business does not make a "profit"
    I'm not saying this is what Anet does. I am saying that a business HAS to make a profit is something that died in the what...1600th C

    In a game, there is an engine and then there is everything that is built on top of that engine. The engine is primarily a background element that controls how inputs are converted into results. Things like builds are not going to be a part of an engine, but rather a layer on top of an engine. If the GW1 build template code exists in GW2, it would be like an appendix in that while it exists, it is incapable of really interacting with any of the other layers since it was never designed to work with them.

    Non-profit organizations do not have shareholders or investors, as there being no ownership is a requirement for being non-profit. Any money given to them is a gift/donation that has no promise of you ever getting anything back. Organizations like FIFA may be non-profits, but all of the teams that belong under the FIFA umbrella are privately owned corporations that are FOR profit. Additionally, every employee of a non-profit is paid to be there, so they are also in it "for money".

    Running in the red with the intention of running in the black are still businesses that intend to make money, they just want to try to undercut prices in order to carve out market share. They are still designed around the concept of making a profit.

    So yes, a "business" is always about making a profit. How they arrange things to get there differs, but no one goes into business with the goal of not making money.

  • @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @YMIHere.9580 said:
    I mean that in a completely selfish way as Arc build templates have been a choice I've ignored for fear of trashing my gear.

    Swapping items can't trash your gear as those items were never placed in limbo, hence cannot disappear. They were simply swapped.

    This separate armory stops the kickback of gear into the junk pile, and makes the quick swaps a reality for me now. I don't want it to come at the expense of other peoples' choices as far as Arc goes, but in a vacuum it seems like a good system to me.

    You don't get it, do you?

    ArcDPS:

    • Load a template. Skills, Traits and Gear will be swapped at once.
    • Gear that's been taken off lands in the exact inventory slots as the gear you swapped it for (i.e., as if you had manually double-clicked the slot and had swapped the item - simple).
    • If you want to share ascended or legendary gear across characters, simply drag it into the bank. Your saved templates remain untouched by this action.

    GW2 system:

    • Load a build template. Load a gear template separately (additional clicks).
    • Gear lands in a new storage = additional hassle to find what you are looking for (you can't sort it as tidily as items in your inventory), very time-consuming. Your items are now in different places (unused ones in your inventory, used ones in the equipment storage).
    • Requires separate equipment slots even for legendary gear if you want different stats for different builds (which takes the purpose of legendary gear ab absurdum, you could as well be using two ascended sets instead; of course, you could simply keep swapping stats manually, but you don't need templates for that, plus it's more time-consuming than using non-legendary gear).
    • If you want to share ascended or legendary gear across characters, you first need to find it in either the equipment storage or one of your character's equipment tabs or inventory, then drag it into your bank. This will unlink it from any gear templates you have created on that character, and you will need to create them all over again every single time (you can't even save that information in your shared build storage to the left, regardless of its 27-slot limit, because that's Skills and Traits only).

    You are not paying attention, this was already covered. What happens to your off hand axe when you swap to a greatsword? Your mainhand axe goes to where the greatsword was, your off hand axe gets kicked back to regular inventory. It's not that Arc trashes the gear, it's that if I'm just switching builds carefree with it that scenario may cause me to accidentally trash my own gear that is now mixed with the rest of the loot. I'm not arguing against Arc, I'd rather it be allowed as well. I'm arguing there's a reason this system is so convoluted. There are other ways to fix this seemingly simple problem, but they're not simple fixes either.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭

    @Patty.3268 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    That punishes hardcore players and loyal spenders even more....are you crazy?

    If anything buying more should get cheaper.

    No, I'm not. If slots start out more expensive and become cheaper the more you buy, that instead punishes non-hardcore players who only need a few additional slots instead of large numbers. There are a lot more non-hardcore players than hardcore players and loyal spenders. I was looking at it taking all types of players into account, not just some. I agree that my approach would make templates more expensive for hardcore players, but would also increase availability of additional slots for the overall player base by having lower entry prizes.

    Then it should be the first one is at a reduced charge (aka entry fee), then any additional are the original charge. So first for 100, then the remaining are 200. Not this 100(x+1) where x is the number of slots you've purchased.

    What they should do is discount bulk purchases.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    people wanted these and some even said they would pay
    Some people moan Anet don't listen.
    I say next time be careful what you wish for.

    That has been my experience with anet so far. Be careful what you ask for, because Anet will find a way to change it into something you definitely didn't want.

    Didn't want? You mean asked for something and claim they would pay to get anet motivated to develop it only to chuck it back in their faces?
    Not understanding what part of these templates wasn't asked for?
    People wanted templates - check
    people said they would pay - check
    people never happy - check check check.

    People wanted to pay a fair once off price...not have templates character bound and limited to 6.

    That wasn't a reasonable thing to want in the first place. We already know how quantity-based features are sold. They aren't sold as a flat rate. They are sold per use.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Patty.3268 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    That punishes hardcore players and loyal spenders even more....are you crazy?

    If anything buying more should get cheaper.

    No, I'm not. If slots start out more expensive and become cheaper the more you buy, that instead punishes non-hardcore players who only need a few additional slots instead of large numbers. There are a lot more non-hardcore players than hardcore players and loyal spenders. I was looking at it taking all types of players into account, not just some. I agree that my approach would make templates more expensive for hardcore players, but would also increase availability of additional slots for the overall player base by having lower entry prizes.

    Then it should be the first one is at a reduced charge (aka entry fee), then any additional are the original charge. So first for 100, then the remaining are 200. Not this 100(x+1) where x is the number of slots you've purchased.

    What they should do is discount bulk purchases.

    You mean something like getting a whole bunch for free for instance? Done.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

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