why is lich still AAing for 6k?

[Smoosh.2718]

I get that people like to throw the 'But you can counter it' card a lot.. but seriously 18k 3 hits. that 1 Co needs a big number reduction.Or give the lich an increase in damage taken.

[avey.4201]

People are defending Lich....I have 11k health, and auto attack for 1k, biggest damage is 2k-4k (against builds without toughness), necros over here with between 20-30k health+toughness defending 5k-6k unblockable auto attacks while they're immune to CC, and possibly using quickness.For those who say "but, it's an elite" go try Dragon Hunters elites.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@"avey.4201" said:People are defending Lich....I have 11k health, and auto attack for 1k, biggest damage is 2k-4k (against builds without toughness), necros over here with between 20-30k health+toughness defending 5k-6k unblockable auto attacks while they're immune to CC, and possibly using quickness.For those who say "but, it's an elite" go try Dragon Hunters elites.

The attacks aren't unlockable...?

[KrHome.1920]

@"avey.4201" said:People are defending Lich....I have 11k health, and auto attack for 1k, biggest damage is 2k-4k (against builds without toughness), necros over here with between 20-30k health+toughness defending 5k-6k unblockable auto attacks while they're immune to CC, and possibly using quickness.For those who say "but, it's an elite" go try Dragon Hunters elites.Core necro is an easy prey for a dragon hunter. Even reaper has to pick a non meta build to get a 50/50 chance against a dragon hunter at equal skill level.

I know a dragon hunter roamer in wvw that begs to fight me every time I show up, because I am the only necro player he can't beat. He is pretty much used to faceroll any kind of necro (esp. these days where "NCSY!" got a hardnerf due to the unblockable reworks).

But I can't blame you. There are maybe 10 good dragon hunter players in EU and probably even less in NA. Most people have no clue how strong that spec is in capable hands.

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

@"avey.4201" said:People are defending Lich....I have 11k health, and auto attack for 1k, biggest damage is 2k-4k (against builds without toughness), necros over here with between 20-30k health+toughness defending 5k-6k unblockable auto attacks while they're immune to CC, and possibly using quickness.For those who say "but, it's an elite" go try Dragon Hunters elites.

Count shroud and we got a lot more health than that. Plus I like to make my shroud aa apply burning to keep you on your toes.

[Teb.6980]

All power damage was nerfed by 33%.But lich was left untouchedDon't even come close to it or all necros are gonna RRRREEEEEEE at your face

[Sneakers.8462]

Lich can be countered in so many ways... It can be countered by removing stability and CC'ing, bursting it down with your team, blocking, popping an invun skill, projectile absorbing, reflects or even line of sight blocking.

For those who say Necros only pop Lich in open spaces where there is no line of sight blocking terrain then that's a good play on their part. If you are so concerned about it then edit your build to beat it and save that skill when you expect a Lich to be used.

If you push into a team fight against a Necro, expect it to pop Lich. If you play Tempest, drop a Swirling Winds or even pop some reflect. It's not that hard. Just manage your skills better.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Broady.2358 said:Lich can be countered in so many ways... It can be countered by removing stability and CC'ing, bursting it down with your team, blocking, popping an invun skill, projectile absorbing, reflects or even line of sight blocking.

If you push into a team fight against a Necro, expect it to pop Lich. If you play Tempest, drop a Swirling Winds or even pop some reflect. It's not that hard. Just manage your skills better.

Lots of skills can be countered on many different classes but they still got nerfed due to the big balance patch in feb, Lich shouldn't be left out just because it's an Elite, look at FGS as a example.

Problem arises mainly when there isn't a Tempest in your match.

[Girth.9731]

@felix.2386 said:title, hello?

Because one of the balance devs probably plays necro? This used to love GW2 but they have completely ruined the game for me.

[Curennos.9307]

For future reference so I can link back to this.

There's a thing I'm going to call...idk, SKILL VALUE. What does your opponent have to do to deal with whatever it is you may be doing? GW2 is a game of (mostly) cooldown management.

My opponent uses a skill. I use a skill, or a dodge, or whatever, to counter it. Somebody wins - most likely, the person who wins is the person who manages to force their opponent to use their cooldowns faster, more often, or in disadvantaged positions while ensuring the opponent does not do that to them as well.

Now let's look at Lich. What does your opponent have to do to 'deal' with the skill? What's a good average strength for an elite skill? Should Lich really be firing out auto attacks that do the same damage as 'burst' skills and force a dodge/mitigation of some sort? Okay, maybe 1-2 of those AAs would be fine - but is the investment/drawbacks of the skill really proportionate to the gain? Should a sudden Lich really be strong enough to (checking suggestions in thread) okay so my choices are basically warp my entire team around the skill and nuke it (wish some of my other classes had skills that forced an entire enemy team, or whoever was present, to do something about it), burn multiple cooldowns to avoid massive damage while getting to LoS, or...certain niche skills, like scrapper's reflect bubble thingy, tempest auras or a weapon skill, etc.

Okay, so if someone does actually use - let's say there's a tempest - an AoE projectile block and bases their gameplay around making 100% sure the skill is available for lich, then lich becomes...useless - at least, useless in the sense that your elite skill is countered by one other skill and you'll probably cast a few of the other non-AA skills, then drop out and do other stuff. But hey, you've still managed to force your opponent into a very predictable pattern just from the sheer power and potential of your elite skill - even if you don't actually use it.

Idk, won't speak for anyone else but this seems like really dumb game design. At the very least, I would say with certainty that Lich as an elite skill has wildly varying value and should be changed to have more consistent impact on a fight.

Any questions?

[Katelynn.6593]

@Shaogin.2679 said:The forums always crack me up. People here will literally complain about anything that kills them. If you are dying to Lich Form then it is entirely your fault. Let me help you right quick by listing things you can do on each class if you are running the typical meta builds:

• Revenant - you have so much at your disposal that you definitely shouldn't be in here complaining. Boon removal, cc, blocks, not to mention loading them up with condi since they can't cleanse in Lich......next
• Engineer - stealth, invuln, reflect, block, chain cc......another class with no excuse.
• Necromancer - lmao personally I love when someone pops a skill with pulsing stability, corrupt that into fear for days.
• Elementalist - projectile destruction, projectile blocks.
• Thief - stealth, blind, los easily thanks to superb mobility
• Guardian - man I hope none of you complaining are Guardians cause kitten, blocks out the kitten, projectile destruction, projectile reflects, chain cc.
• Ranger - stealth, block, easily los
• Mesmer - stealth, reflect, invuln, easily los
• Warrior - what are you doing in pvp? lol. but for real, block, easily los, and best of all....chain cc out the kitten. not to mention Rampage completely counters Lich Form and has a shorter cooldown.

So now that I have spelled it out for the players lacking in the skill department, what are your complaints? Lich Form has a 150 sec cooldown, only lasts 10 sec, makes the Necro a giant target in case the target wasn't already called on him, and I have provided you proof that every class in the game can EASILY counter Lich Form renderring it completely ineffective without making a single change to your build. So come on, let's hear it. This is a safe space, tell me where the Necro hurt you.

Show me where on this doll the necro hurt you.

[Katelynn.6593]

L2p isn't a guarantee of winning. You can't remove luck from the game.

Telling players to L2P might give them the false impression that they will never ever go down and if they do they need to L2P better.

I think it's more accurate to say L2p will make you die less, but unless you're at the top in terms of game play you're still going to die from time to time.

Players can get gud. But somebody has to be at the top. So if a bad player gets gud, a already good player will become a deity in the arena. Because irl there will always be people better than you no matter how good you are (with the exception of you being the best of the best - and even then someone else might take that spot with enough knowledge and practice)

Personally I believe someone has l2p if they know what to do, but because of bad luck they can't do that skill that will defend them, because e.g in an earlier situation they were forced to use that skill.

But Anet can't remove advantage from good luck and disadvantage from bad luck the game. Because you can't even remove it from real life.

Players want skills removed because they're too OP in their opinion. But that won't change anything. Instead what will happen is advantage and disadvantage will manifest in other ways.

But removing a skill entirely won't do anything except replace it with another form of disadvantage. It exists in real life and it exists in game and Anet can lessen it but it cannot be removed.

There needs to be a point where players realize that bad luck happens sometimes and it's not something to complain about but as something to accept as a natural part of life and the game itself.

The disadvantage and bad luck can be you've l2p. But so have they and they've got months more experience than you. That doesn't mean their class needs to be nerfed or that your class needs to be powered up more. It just means you ended up in a bad situation with a player better than you or because of previous fights you had your defensive skills off cooldown and got downed on your way to recovery.

Before complaining you have to ask yourself was there something I could have done? No. I was caught in a bad situation caused by a string chain of events.

If so is it possible that bad luck happened and Anet can't remove that from the game in the same way they couldn't remove it from real life?

If so complaining about it won't help. You just need to counter it when you can and accept that temporary death is a natural part of GW2 PVP and it will happen to nearly everyone who plays that game mode, when you can't defend yourself.

[Jasonbdj.4021]

They trashed wells that wasnt even meta yet shit like this still exist.

WTF anet?

[Kuma.1503]

As much as I enjoy popping Magnetic Aura and watching bad Necros 3 shot themselves... I don't think this skill is well designed. There are 4 other skills in Lich form's kit that could use buffs. It's autos need to be heavily toned down. I'd love it if Lich form was an actual lich, focused on raising the dead and corrupting anything that walks.

As is, you may as well replace Lich Form with Charrzooka. Have necros pull out an oversized gun and blast people for 6-7k a pop. At least then the skill would make sense.

[Teb.6980]

It was overlooked in february. Same as with grenades

[Shiyo.3578]

@Teb.6980 said:It was overlooked in february. Same as with grenades

Same with spinal shivers

[Kodama.6453]

@Kuma.1503 said:As much as I enjoy popping Magnetic Aura and watching bad Necros 3 shot themselves... I don't think this skill is well designed. There are 4 other skills in Lich form's kit that could use buffs. It's autos need to be heavily toned down. I'd love it if Lich form was an actual lich, focused on raising the dead and corrupting anything that walks.

As is, you may as well replace Lich Form with Charrzooka. Have necros pull out an oversized gun and blast people for 6-7k a pop. At least then the skill would make sense.

Focusing Lich too much on minions (raising the dead) might not be such a great idea because of skill types.Necromancers already have an elite minion skill, flesh golem. They probably don't want to double up on that by making Lich focused on minions as well.

They even specifically changed Lich into a spectral skill (and also plaguelands into a corruption) to make necromancers have elite skills for 3 different skill types.The other skills could probably really need some buffs, alongside a nerf to the auto attack. And they should change some of the skills to fit better in the spectral theme, in my opinion.