Why did Anet waste so much time on Kralkatorrik?

[Ototo.3214]

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:He wasn't. DE would have killed him right way if Logan wasn't stupid. And we saved him in PoF.Eh, I'm not big on constantly blaming Logan for that. Maybe him being there would have helped, maybe it wouldn't. And sure, we saved him. But Anet has provided a reason for that, one I'm perfectly fine with as it adds more to the elder dragons instead of the game just being some Monster Hunter: Elder Dragon edition. I much prefer there being actual obstacles to killing the dragons, instead of how the fight with Zhaitan and Mordremoth went. Zhaitan we straight up just walked into his lair and shot him out of the air and Mordy, while he did slap our fleet out of the sky and sylvari turned on us, yet again we jut sort of walked into his domain with a small group of people and, as someone else mentioned, made him have a mental breakdown. I'm fine with Kralk actually being a threat now. Considering the fight we've had with Kralk where we didn't even kill him was more compelling to me than both of the other elder dragon "fights" combined.

[ugrakarma.9416]

is because Anet still insists on pushing the GW2 into a kids thematics. Kids like polygons and crystals, colorful things. We're fighting a villain designed for a cartoon of 5-year-old kids, a "big evil bogeyman who turns everything into crystal", he's giant and purple. For some strange reason Anet also believes that the branded zones, are sensational.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:and its minions are not interesting, regardless of how many major faction is related, it's not gonna work.

Exactly this. We're just beating on purple crystals, this is by far the most uninteresting bunch of villains.

[coso.9173]

i kinda like the whole aesthetic, of branded zone,s purple crystals, and things like that.Although I'm a bit bored of fighting dragons in general. I woud prefer to get more humanoid villains, with more complex intentions than just destroy everything just beacuse.

[Khalisto.5780]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:I wish WvW had more personality.

D:

Call numbers personality and your problem os solved, if your zerg has more personality you win fights, if your server has more asian personalities to cover the night time you win the whole peraonality wars

[witcher.3197]

why did Anet waste so much time on kralkatorrik dragons

FTFY

[Khalisto.5780]

@Naxos.2503 said:I guess the main Reason we spend so much on Kralk is because of Aurene. The idea of Glint's prophecy is for benevolent actors to replace Elder Dragons are vectors of Energy. It's not so much Kralk's story as it is Aurene's story. Episode 6 will see that chapter drawn to a close I'd think in some way, since Aurene is no longer physically present to become the new conduit.

I'm personally very interested in the deep sea dragon as well due to the implications, but we'll see what goes on during and after episode 6

unless thia deep dragon ia hidden in a dry cave and we get there with 0 underwater combat I don't want to see this dragon anytime soon

[otto.5684]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

I laughed a bit when you said Balthazar and Joko were interesting. They were as interesting as Villians as Mr. Freeze was in Batman and robin movie (or Diablo in Diabl 3). I would take a silent villain, any day, over the chatty arrogant type.

That does not mean LWS4 has good story. It does not.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@otto.5684 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

I laughed a bit when you said Balthazar and Joko were interesting. They were as interesting as Villians as Mr. Freeze was in Batman and robin movie (or Diablo in Diabl 3). I would take a silent villain, any day, over the chatty arrogant type.

That does not mean LWS4 has good story. It does not.

An undead sociopath cracking quips like he's in the MCU and a grumpy old man trying to force everyone to get off his lawn. I 'll take an eldritch abomination with no personality over these two caricatures any day.

Kralk is at a disadvantage compared to the other two dragons because we are not fighting him in his established domain and he doesn't have any supporting cast. But I suspect that has more to do with LS limitations and Anet's recent hiccups than actual writing.

[Leo G.4501]

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

I laughed a bit when you said Balthazar and Joko were interesting. They were as interesting as Villians as Mr. Freeze was in Batman and robin movie (or Diablo in Diabl 3). I would take a silent villain, any day, over the chatty arrogant type.

That does not mean LWS4 has good story. It does not.

An undead sociopath cracking quips like he's in the MCU and a grumpy old man trying to force everyone to get off his lawn. I 'll take an eldritch abomination with no personality over these two caricatures any day.

Kralk is at a disadvantage compared to the other two dragons because we are not fighting him in his established domain and he doesn't have any supporting cast. But I suspect that has more to do with LS limitations and Anet's recent hiccups than actual writing.

I also feel that genre awareness plays a role as well (people that consume copious amounts of media or commentary of that media...possibly TVtropes.com) and then suddenly how often something is done has a more significant effect than how well or fitting that something was executed.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

I'd disagree on the point of Kralkatorrik having "no personality but kill and devour" or being a boring antagonist, though I would agree there are more interesting villains out there (Joko, Lazaurs, etc.) that suffered a bit too much.

Hell, Kralkatorrik is the first Elder Dragon to really act like the Elder Dragons should act, and feel like the level of threat the Elder Dragons should feel like. The truly world-ending eldritch horrors that they are, even when understanding them they're still so powerful and pushing us into corners through their sheer might. Something neither Zhaitan nor Mordremoth had properly done (though Mordremoth was close with the fleet destruction, he became a fool of a took after that with his lack of true threatening presence).

That said, Kralkatorrik has gotten a total of 2 episodes for screentime. He was a barely important sub of a subplot for PoF and the first three episodes (literally non-existent in Episode 3), so I don't think he's gotten "so much time", nor do I think that the time spent has been wasted.

Zhaitan definitely died too soon, but I argue this less because of the screentime he and the risen got, and more because an Elder Dragon shouldn't have kicked the bucket in the very first release of the game (imo, Zhaitan and the Pact would have been a better Season 1 plot, pushing everything back an arc in favor of focusing on the racial and Order plots in the whole of the personal story / initial plot). And HoT was horribly short for all the loose threads it needed to tie up. However, that is more attributed to poor management than not, imo.

I would argue that Kralkatorrik is getting the exact amount of time he deserves, as Balthazar and Scarlet got (though Balthazar did suffer in a few key areas in writing). Instead, it is rather Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Lazarus/White Mantle/Caudecus, and Joko who have gotten the wrong amount of screen time.

[Tiviana.2650]

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

I laughed a bit when you said Balthazar and Joko were interesting. They were as interesting as Villians as Mr. Freeze was in Batman and robin movie (or Diablo in Diabl 3). I would take a silent villain, any day, over the chatty arrogant type.

That does not mean LWS4 has good story. It does not.

An undead sociopath cracking quips like he's in the MCU and a grumpy old man trying to force everyone to get off his lawn. I 'll take an eldritch abomination with no personality over these two caricatures any day.

Kralk is at a disadvantage compared to the other two dragons because we are not fighting him in his established domain and he doesn't have any supporting cast. But I suspect that has more to do with LS limitations and Anet's recent hiccups than actual writing.

You dare to say these things about our beloved Palawa Joko! May he find it in his benevolence to strike you down for this heresy!

I happen to like Dragons, and i like Kralk and his story im curious to see why he fled. My only complaint is i never get to see the whole dragon even on a 50 inch monitor, wtb zoom out further plz.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@otto.5684 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

I laughed a bit when you said Balthazar and Joko were interesting. They were as interesting as Villians as Mr. Freeze was in Batman and robin movie (or Diablo in Diabl 3). I would take a silent villain, any day, over the chatty arrogant type.

That does not mean LWS4 has good story. It does not.

I don't think they are interesting, just better than Kralkatorrik.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

I'd disagree on the point of Kralkatorrik having "no personality but kill and devour" or being a boring antagonist, though I would agree there are more interesting villains out there (Joko, Lazaurs, etc.) that suffered a bit too much.

Hell, Kralkatorrik is the first Elder Dragon to really act like the Elder Dragons

should

act, and feel like the level of threat the Elder Dragons should feel like. The truly world-ending eldritch horrors that they are, even when understanding them they're still so powerful and pushing us into corners through their sheer might. Something neither Zhaitan nor Mordremoth had properly done (though Mordremoth was close with the fleet destruction, he became a fool of a took after that with his lack of true threatening presence).

That said, Kralkatorrik has gotten a total of 2 episodes for screentime. He was a barely important sub of a subplot for PoF and the first three episodes (literally non-existent in Episode 3), so I don't think he's gotten "so much time", nor do I think that the time spent has been wasted.

Zhaitan definitely died too soon, but I argue this less because of the screentime he and the risen got, and more because an Elder Dragon shouldn't have kicked the bucket in the very first release of the game (imo, Zhaitan and the Pact would have been a better Season 1 plot, pushing everything back an arc in favor of focusing on the racial and Order plots in the whole of the personal story / initial plot). And HoT was horribly short for all the loose threads it needed to tie up. However, that is more attributed to poor management than not, imo.

I would argue that Kralkatorrik is getting the exact amount of time he deserves, as Balthazar and Scarlet got (though Balthazar did suffer in a few key areas in writing). Instead, it is rather Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Lazarus/White Mantle/Caudecus, and Joko who have gotten the wrong amount of screen time.

Zhaitan does let us feel very scary, its Risen was keep attacking ppl with tactics and clear targets. The novel Sea of Sorrow also brought terror, more than Edge of Destiny to Kralkatorrik. Just his own battle sucks.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Overall, I think Jormag is the dragon with the most personality, not sure why didn't Anet bring him out.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Zhaitan's Risen got more personality and intelligence. The whole structure of the Risen was interesting as well. Mordremoth got the big twist of the Sylvari.

Kralkatorrik and his minions are really boring compare to Balthazar and Joko, he has no personality but kill and devour, and we had to waste the xpc to save him then fight him to save the world. Last episode's fight is pretty much everything we need to see from him, and he still wasn't finished off. I hope we could kill him soon and get to the next dragon. Jormag got more personality and DSD got mystery to solve.

I laughed a bit when you said Balthazar and Joko were interesting. They were as interesting as Villians as Mr. Freeze was in Batman and robin movie (or Diablo in Diabl 3). I would take a silent villain, any day, over the chatty arrogant type.

That does not mean LWS4 has good story. It does not.

An undead sociopath cracking quips like he's in the MCU and a grumpy old man trying to force everyone to get off his lawn. I 'll take an eldritch abomination with no personality over these two caricatures any day.

Kralk is at a disadvantage compared to the other two dragons because we are not fighting him in his established domain and he doesn't have any supporting cast. But I suspect that has more to do with LS limitations and Anet's recent hiccups than actual writing.

Joko was ok, Balthazar meh, it should have been Menzies.

We do have new maps in LS. It's not like HoT have that many chapters.

Overall, I don't want another LS focusing on Kralkatorrik, All of Nothing's last fight was pretty much enough. It's difficult to bring another better fight without giving him another big boost, which he already got 2 at least.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:Zhaitan does let us feel very scary, its Risen was keep attacking ppl with tactics and clear targets. The novel Sea of Sorrow also brought terror, more than Edge of Destiny to Kralkatorrik. Just his own battle sucks.

Eh, all the dragons do that though whenever they become active. Even Kralkatorrik does, though it's not highlighted as much. Plus, that was more the risen, rather than Zhaitan itself. Zhaitan itself did pretty much nothing, and the threat of the arm != the threat of the master.

Kralkatorrik itself is the massive threat. The branded are merely shocktroops for him. This is unlike the other Elder Dragons, where they just sit back, do nothing (but taunt in Mordremoth's case), and let the minions do all the tactics, attacking, and taunting. That makes the Elder Dragons very boring, since they're not really showing off their "world ending" capabilities. Kralkatorrik actually is, even if he doesn't speak or show off his personality directly (the lack of branded personality, incidentally, is part of Kralkatorrik's personality).

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:Zhaitan does let us feel very scary, its Risen was keep attacking ppl with tactics and clear targets. The novel Sea of Sorrow also brought terror, more than Edge of Destiny to Kralkatorrik. Just his own battle sucks.

Eh, all the dragons do that though whenever they become active. Even Kralkatorrik does, though it's not highlighted as much. Plus, that was more the risen, rather than Zhaitan itself. Zhaitan itself did pretty much nothing, and the threat of the arm != the threat of the master.

Kralkatorrik itself is the massive threat. The branded are merely shocktroops for him. This is unlike the other Elder Dragons, where they just sit back, do nothing (but taunt in Mordremoth's case), and let the minions do all the tactics, attacking, and taunting. That makes the Elder Dragons very boring, since they're not really showing off their "world ending" capabilities. Kralkatorrik actually is, even if he doesn't speak or show off his personality directly (the lack of branded personality, incidentally, is part of Kralkatorrik's personality).

Zhaitan arranged those, you can also sense his presence through Captain Whitining, when he was staring at ppl they sense something ancient was also staring, it was Zhaitan. Zhaitan didn't do nothing, he caused the huge Tsunami and killed many many ppl then made many of them into Risen.

Kralkatorrik almost got killed by Destiny's Edge with Glint's help right after his awakening, and Balthazhar also almost killed him without much effort, meh.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:Zhaitan arranged those, you can also sense his presence through Captain Whitining, when he was staring at ppl they sense something ancient was also staring, it was Zhaitan. Zhaitan didn't do nothing, he caused the huge Tsunami and killed many many ppl then made many of them into Risen.

Kralkatorrik almost got killed by Destiny's Edge with Glint's help right after his awakening, and Balthazhar also almost killed him without much effort, meh.

I think you may be attributing too much to Zhaitan while too little to Kralkatorrik.

Firstly, we cannot properly separate where the risen's tactics end, and Zhaitan's tactics begin (and we do know there's a difference as Mordremoth is said to be the only Elder Dragon to micromanage minions). We also know that Zhaitan was not literally "staring at people" through Whiting and other minions because that's literally why Eyes of Zhaitan exist - to be direct and real-time visual surveillance for Zhaitan. Zhaitan's being "behind the eyes" of the risen was more a metaphor to represent that there was a force empowering them.

Sure, Zhaitan caused the huge tsunami and turned many people into risen, but Kralkatorrik created the Dragonbrand and corrupted as good a number of people - all on par to Mordremoth's initial vine spreading or Jormag shattering the Far Shiverpeaks. They're all on par there. They all have a moment of activity.

And it'd be debatable just how "almost got killed" Kralkatorrik was, since the group focused on a one-shot kill tactic. But as you noted, it's right after his awakening, when he was at his literal weakest. And Balthazar did put a lot of effort, he waged war across the entire Crystal Desert and northern Elona, had to find his exact weakness, and march an army to Kralkatorrik's stronghold. Balthazar basically did the exact same things that the Pact did against Zhaitan. It doesn't seem like much, because we spent more time fighting Forged who had already killed so many branded, rather than fighting the branded ourselves. Balthazar, the Warbeast, and the Forged were to Kralkatorrik as the Commander, Glory of Tyria, and the Pact were to Zhaitan. Both groups did about equal amount of battle and effort. Balthazar had cleared the path off-screen, and we marched through the aftermath.

[SnowHawk.3615]

honestly the entire store is forgettable at best. transparent characters and story line.

[mDane.7182]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Hell, Kralkatorrik is the first Elder Dragon to really act like the Elder Dragons should act, and feel like the level of threat the Elder Dragons should feel like. The truly world-ending eldritch horrors that they are, even when understanding them they're still so powerful and pushing us into corners through their sheer might. Something neither Zhaitan nor Mordremoth had properly done (though Mordremoth was close with the fleet destruction, he became a fool of a took after that with his lack of true threatening presence).

I think this is exactly what Kralkatorrik's personality is. Acting like the Elder Dragon he is; menacing, world ending and thinks that everything is beneath him, that there is not a need to communicate and to understand his intentions/plans.

This is also the same for the other Elder Dragons, everything is just a means to them and the destruction of the world around being just an after effect of their true goal - which is to consume all magic.

What made the first two Elder Dragon's interesting is that they had champions or agents that communicate with us. Unique among them are the agents of Zhaitan and the Sylvari which Mordremoth corrupted. And i think, i could be wrong here, they chose to communicate in some form because they see us as a threat to their plans. While Kralk just doesnt care and goes about his business as usual without so much letting us know what his motives are making him bland in that sense.

[dodgerrule.8739]

I’m order to know the full answer for this you must know the history of Aurene and her mother glint. They are actual descendants of Kralkatorrik purified by the forgotten. Unlike Aurene glint had memories stil of her being a Kralkatorrik minion but since Aurene was born after glint was purified she never experienced corruption.

This is important to the story

[Ayakaru.6583]

They actually gave us very little on kralkatorrik.All we’ve seen of him were short interventions.Most story has been about hos descendants, and his rather violent legacy.

In fact, Zhaitan and Mordremoth had a much bigger build-up.

I’m just still bitter they left zojja out of all of this. Like, not even a mention (just snaff’s ghost mentioning him on the side, one time)

[Cristalyan.5728]

My advise for the Lore Team is to read carefully the lore (especially the part with Glint Prophecy). Glint told us that only fighting all of us we will be able to defeat Kralky.

• In the first fight Logan missed. And despite Eir's confidence and the desire to finish this dragon, we lost. And we lost Snaff also.
• In the second fight, Zojja missed. And despite a good plan, perfect ambush etc, we lost. And we lost Aurene too.

So, if we will kill Kralky, the Lore Team should bring Zojja back. Because, winning without having her means we will contradict what Glint told us.

And NO, Snaff and Eir are no more considered us. The personal death is a valid reason to be excused for your current duties =) But, fighting in the Mist, the Lore Team can make somehow to have them (as etheric beings) on our side.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:I wish WvW had more personality.

D:

Call numbers personality and your problem os solved, if your zerg has more personality you win fights, if your server has more asian personalities to cover the night time you win the whole peraonality wars

Some zergs have less personality than small groups....

[dodgerrule.8739]

Zojja is dead to some of us. In fact my character had her killed.

The developers won’t have Logan or Zojja be a main part because of the end of heart of thorns.