ilMasa.2546

Stealth is the worst defensive tool. Block, Evade, Invuln are all far better. Hell its so bad at it Im not even sure stealth counts as a defensive tool. Sure it is. Except you can use it whenever you want and in combination with other skills. If stealth were one skill that lasted 3 seconds, required a channel, and had a 50s cd the way invuln does nobody would have a problem with it! But no. Stealth is an auto disengage with way too few restrictions on it. Worst design in the game. "You can use it whenever you want", uh, as opposed to blocks, invulns and evades which ... you also can use whenever you want? Hell, its worse than that, because Evades, Blocks and Invulns tend to activate instantly, whereas stealth does not, and usually has a lengthy cast time. Also, "you can use it in combination with other skills", in that case its those other skills doing all the work, and invisiblity provided next to nothing. Stealth is not "an auto disengage with way too few restrictions on it" (quite the opposite, its the only way a thief can get himself killed). Shortbow 5 is that. Like I said. Too much stealth and mobility. Too few counters and restrictions. A class that is designed to be unhittable and to escape from any fight whenever they want is poor design. Too much mobility you can argue. Too much stealth? Stealth is not even useful outside of out of combat scenarios, and in those cases "too much" seems to mean "any access to it at all". Thief is not at all designed to be unhittable (quite the opposite. If the thief doesnt run, theyre one of the easiest classes to hit. Part of why they always have to run). And sure, you could argue that thief always being able to escape from any fight is problematic. But A, that has nothing to do with stealth and is an entirely different conversation, and B, so can Warrior and Ranger, and I dont see you calling for their head. Maybe because it's a discussion about stealth and how it sinergize with the thief class?! Noone complains about the mobility. But that doesnt answer the question of "why do you complain about something that isnt a problem for the reasons you describe, and instead ascribe problems to it that actually are problems with mobility". Now people do complain about the mobility, but even if they didnt, thats the point. Theyre complaining about the wrong thing. Because when you say something like "Thief is not at all designed to be unhittable. (quite the opposite)" it sounds like the good old bs argument of " BUT thieves need (insert something) cos they are squishy". I mean they would need something if they were meant to be good at 1v1s. Yknow, like every class has? Its not like people complain about warrior having blocks and evades, and theyre not even squishy. Thats ... a leap of logic. If there is a problem with thief, its that they can always run away, thanks to shortbow 5. Shortbow 5 is the only thing you could argue should be changed. But that would require massive compensation buffs. And something tells me, you lot wont like that part. No.Because if both mobility (still the lesser issue) and stealth were toned down to a balanced level u could actually enjoy fighting a thiefBut then why a massive compensation?! You already have shadowstep,u could steal to get away and so on.It's exactly this mentality: you strip me of my cheesy mobility,then i want a MASSIVE compensation.A MASSIVE compensation ≠ balance Depends on where. Out of combat its too good. Being able to burst someone down before they know youre there is dumb. In-combat its actually quite underpowered on thief specifically. Its good if you want to hide a cast time (like Holo used to), but for thief? Its just an easy way to get killed. Ok we could agree to some extent that there are some differences based on the situation (in combat,out of combat)But you cannot say it's quite underpowered in combat. Look at how it is so damn underpowered in actual combatI see aoes,i see ground aoes,i see cleaves: i see people trying to following up an "almost always" invisible target and they simply cannot.This one is one month old,since we are talking about a mechanic interaction and not "builds" should be okInb4 "its A DE,not technically a thief"Inb4 "those are noobs"Inb4 "no traps/target painter"Pls add the one i forgot Why are you bringing up PvE here? Also, the latter doesnt exist, and Im pretty sure never existed because of how bad traps were. Because even tho you quoted 6 lines of my words u locked-on only on 2 things:Slothasor: pve,why pve in here,doesnt matter Correct. Here is where i can tell,u dont know.You are dismissing a proof just cos it was featured IN A pve ACTIVITY and so has no place in a pvp context.But we are NOT talking about BUILDS but MECHANICSFirst of all ,thief stealth is the SAME across ALL modes (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth the only exception being shadow meld,where u get 1 extra second of stealth in pve) and since we are talking about the mechanic and there is NO SPLIT : it is relevant cos it's the same in wvw.Second it's almost the same build used in wvw back in those daysThird that build managed to solo a Boss because of how interact with STEALTHcorrect Oh my, going all the way back to 5 years ago. Impressive. Question, did you actually play 5 years ago? Because spoiler: It wasnt good. It was actually a complete rubbish build. The same kind of troll thing as trap ranger. So First you said there was no such thing as this build (proved wrong)Then u say it sucked and was a complete rubbish build(updated),but u didnt even remember that build so how do u knowAs last resort you bitch about being a 6 year old build and question me if i was actually playing 5 years ago: i dont know....since between us im the one remembering that build i guess i was playing 5 years ago If there were others more appropriate for this context, you wouldve used them. There arent, and thats why you didnt use them. I ... what are you even saying here? "These examples fit perfectly because they are completely irrelevant"??? answered above Except there is no real "synergy" you described. You showed 2 instances of thief using stealth for something. One in PvE. The other a likely terrible build in WvW or PvP that no longer exists.I dont need to show you 5 or more instances. Two should be "enuf" to understand the point im making.I dont care if u dont like those or not,doesnt matter. You needed to show 1 instance of something that proved your point. You failed to do that. You showed 2 utterly irrelevant thing, one of which was even a garbage meme build, and thought it helps your point. The problem is, you dont have a point.answered above

Stealth is the worst defensive tool. Block, Evade, Invuln are all far better. Hell its so bad at it Im not even sure stealth counts as a defensive tool. Sure it is. Except you can use it whenever you want and in combination with other skills. If stealth were one skill that lasted 3 seconds, required a channel, and had a 50s cd the way invuln does nobody would have a problem with it! But no. Stealth is an auto disengage with way too few restrictions on it. Worst design in the game. "You can use it whenever you want", uh, as opposed to blocks, invulns and evades which ... you also can use whenever you want? Hell, its worse than that, because Evades, Blocks and Invulns tend to activate instantly, whereas stealth does not, and usually has a lengthy cast time. Also, "you can use it in combination with other skills", in that case its those other skills doing all the work, and invisiblity provided next to nothing. Stealth is not "an auto disengage with way too few restrictions on it" (quite the opposite, its the only way a thief can get himself killed). Shortbow 5 is that. Like I said. Too much stealth and mobility. Too few counters and restrictions. A class that is designed to be unhittable and to escape from any fight whenever they want is poor design. Too much mobility you can argue. Too much stealth? Stealth is not even useful outside of out of combat scenarios, and in those cases "too much" seems to mean "any access to it at all". Thief is not at all designed to be unhittable (quite the opposite. If the thief doesnt run, theyre one of the easiest classes to hit. Part of why they always have to run). And sure, you could argue that thief always being able to escape from any fight is problematic. But A, that has nothing to do with stealth and is an entirely different conversation, and B, so can Warrior and Ranger, and I dont see you calling for their head. Maybe because it's a discussion about stealth and how it sinergize with the thief class?! Noone complains about the mobility. But that doesnt answer the question of "why do you complain about something that isnt a problem for the reasons you describe, and instead ascribe problems to it that actually are problems with mobility". Now people do complain about the mobility, but even if they didnt, thats the point. Theyre complaining about the wrong thing.Because when you say something like "Thief is not at all designed to be unhittable. (quite the opposite)" it sounds like the good old bs argument of " BUT thieves need (insert something) cos they are squishy".So if the profession is designed to be hittable (as you are saying),then the problem is defacto how the profession interacts with some mechanics.I mean,im not here talking about bigfoot,and if you think the stealth mechanic in this game is legit,you are delusional. Why are you bringing up PvE here? Also, the latter doesnt exist, and Im pretty sure never existed because of how bad traps were. Because even tho you quoted 6 lines of my words u locked-on only on 2 things:Slothasor: pve,why pve in here,doesnt matterperma stealth condi trapper "i dont even need to research,there is no such thing as a perma stealth condi trapper build: traps sucked,so" First, i was giving examples on the sinergy i was talking about.There are several other broken builds and those 2 were the first that came to my mind,tbh.Simple as that.Second since you were talking about a "mobility" issue ,those 2 fit perfectly cos it's not a mobility issue Except there is no real "synergy" you described. You showed 2 instances of thief using stealth for something. One in PvE. The other a likely terrible build in WvW or PvP that no longer exists.I dont need to show you 5 or more instances. Two should be "enuf" to understand the point im making.I dont care if u dont like those or not,doesnt matter.

Stealth is the worst defensive tool. Block, Evade, Invuln are all far better. Hell its so bad at it Im not even sure stealth counts as a defensive tool. Sure it is. Except you can use it whenever you want and in combination with other skills. If stealth were one skill that lasted 3 seconds, required a channel, and had a 50s cd the way invuln does nobody would have a problem with it! But no. Stealth is an auto disengage with way too few restrictions on it. Worst design in the game. "You can use it whenever you want", uh, as opposed to blocks, invulns and evades which ... you also can use whenever you want? Hell, its worse than that, because Evades, Blocks and Invulns tend to activate instantly, whereas stealth does not, and usually has a lengthy cast time. Also, "you can use it in combination with other skills", in that case its those other skills doing all the work, and invisiblity provided next to nothing. Stealth is not "an auto disengage with way too few restrictions on it" (quite the opposite, its the only way a thief can get himself killed). Shortbow 5 is that. Like I said. Too much stealth and mobility. Too few counters and restrictions. A class that is designed to be unhittable and to escape from any fight whenever they want is poor design. Too much mobility you can argue. Too much stealth? Stealth is not even useful outside of out of combat scenarios, and in those cases "too much" seems to mean "any access to it at all". Thief is not at all designed to be unhittable (quite the opposite. If the thief doesnt run, theyre one of the easiest classes to hit. Part of why they always have to run). And sure, you could argue that thief always being able to escape from any fight is problematic. But A, that has nothing to do with stealth and is an entirely different conversation, and B, so can Warrior and Ranger, and I dont see you calling for their head.Maybe because it's a discussion about stealth and how it sinergize with the thief class?! Noone complains about the mobility. The problem with warriors was the crazy SINERGY between the healing signet and their mobility. (plus ofc all the rest of their toolkit)The signet alone wasnt that great, but the moment u give that passive regen to a class like a warrior, it's gg. The same goes for thieves and stealth. It wasnt mobility alone that led to solo Slothasor killperma stealth condi trapperIt is the Sinergy this profession has with all these mechanics. So you cannot have both,u have to pick one: tone down mechanicstone down how the class interact with the mechanics

Really?! And i was thinking tags asking for specific classes and/or builds was an ok deterrent already. kek

Three things here: You could make a similar video with any class that has a big fat block. I remember a pretty funny one where a condi mesmer just stands in place slowly clicking skills (for dramatic effect) while a thief goes ham on him and accomplishes nothing. This is from before the damage nerf. Huge changes to viability of burst builds and a big shake-up to the meta in general. The Preparation gimmick he's trying to do isn't really working very well for him at all. The counter to thieves isn't Revealed, it's burst mitigation, hard CC, and good sustain. A very powerful counter to Rifle Deadeye is reflect. Think of Revealed like Unblockable -- it's a helpful ability that sometimes lets you catch enemies with their pants down, but it doesn't completely negate the opponent's build (because, e.g., they've still got access to Protection and Invuln instead). The difference is that the WvW map isn't covered with Sentries and Towers that are constantly putting "Can't Block" on you. I do understand that,but the point is an other tho.I cannot spam hard cc,i cannot spam reflects 24/7.What im saying is i pay the price for my decisions,as it is supposed to be.So if i see a thief coming and i manage to dodge or block his opener i shuld get rewarded cos i played it good,right?Like i timed my dodge,i used a counter in the best moment possible and denied his dmg. In reality it is not the case,cos i lose a dodge and/or i get a big cd on a block.Where is the reward?Did i blocked the dmg? YesSo now i shuld be able to answer him because he should be vulnerable,is this the case?Cause if it is not the case it's going to be just an other reset,after an other. My CDs cannot be refreshed as much as stealth.You talk about reflect,i have ONE reflect and if i use it ill get a 20 sec cd at best.How long is a reveal cd:15/20 secs or even more?And we are talking about a class that keeps the stealth up even if it attacks the target BUT miss the attack. Where is the trade off? just like the warrior signet was passively healing for too much,stealth in this game gives too much

Every single MMORPG has a stealth mechanic and/or a stealth based class,but only in GW2 it is this broken: 1) WoW : u cannot stack stealth time by recastthere is a cd on useanybody has a chance to detect an enemy in stealth mode (depending on distance & view angle)cannot re-stealth in combat unless using specific skills2) Archage: (and this game has a HUGE p2w problem) available to everyone (just need to pick the talent)any actions other than moving will cause stealth to enddecreases Move Speed -30%chance to detect an enemy in stealth mode based on proximity in frontal(long range detection),lateral(medium range detection) and rear (close range detection) viewNumber one is the "KING" of the industry the unkillable western bluprint for moneymaking,the evergreen WoWNumber two is that one f2p-ish eastern "sandbox-at-the-beginning" MMORPG launched as of right now several times with different payment methods.And ofc there are many other games with stealth mechanics,i just wanted to pick 2 titles at the opposite side on the industry. What im trying to say is, it is not something new.So the moment u plan to have ANY sort of PVP you shuld be looking at ways to make a mechanic balanced before even PUSHING for COMPETITIVE MLG pvp for YEARS (failing at it,none the less). I only listed 4 major points describing the 2 stealth mechanics built in 2 kinda of popular games.But each point has a HUGE impact on it.And i find it funny that the most FAIR stealth mechanic can actually be found in that mess of Archage instead of,i dont know, GW2!?! While in MOST games the biggest benefit you get from stealth is a "tactical one " (opening on someone when you want) in GW2 u can even miss your actual opener and still stay stealthed.So u can actually make a bad decision but since u stacked your invis to 40 seconds and noone is aware of you u can reset,wait for cds and redo.Plus ALL the other things u can do with it. I dont want to be a jerk,but when in a game fast-paced like this u can play a class as a clicker in a PVP mode...m8 no.JUST NO We can talk about reveal (and the DE counter),we can talk about stationary sentries (and the range) or what? anti-stealth traps?! yea sure. These solutions dont work,most of the time. Lets make it so: u can stack invisibility all you want( untill a reasonable max) but then you also get a proportional cd on stealth.(you stack 20 seconds you get no stealth for 20 seconds)you reveal yourself when you USE an attack In this way you can still initiate whenever u want,u can stay in stealth how long you want but there is a trade off

Need a siege rework. been saying this for years2019 i got suspended several times for calling out "AMAZING" changes/fixes 2018 https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/536321#Comment_5363212017 https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/138707#Comment_138707 ... but you know: bEtTeR iMpLEmENT MOUNTS and GLIDERS....if only TREBS had SKINS in the gemstore :)

EVERY S.I.N.G.L.E. TIME there is a "No Downed state" weekend there will be a "NO Downstate should STAY permanently" , since the FIRST "no downed state" was implemented. (June 8 to June 15, 2018) Its 2020 aaaand guess what?! There will be no permanent "no downed state". Devs dont care.

EZ answer number 1: wvw devs If we are still playing this mess ... its cos we keep getting outplayed HARD by them "HOW?" u going to say. ...well... EZ answer number 2 : BALANCE patchWvW reworkCompetitive class reworksAlliancesWorld RestructuringWhile in reality all they did was adding GLIDERS and MOUNTS to milk the wvw comunity and at this point we f. deserve it lol. BUT hey ,they also managed to "inadvertently reset NA WvW matches" and a messed up realm linking ps: i guess i will get moderated for this see ya in 4 months cheers

Nope.im kinda done with gw2.Dont get me wrong : i still have the game installed,but honestly i kinda log for like 5 min just to check whats new => OOF => logs outas you can see i still check the forums sometimes,just when im feeling too happy so i get that right amount of sadness reminding me why i dont care anymore.Unlucky. Cant even say "im waiting for gw3": its going to be the same s. show.

Prioritieslol @ people throwing tantrums for face and hairstyles: "Please give all races what they deserve and have asked for" Call UNICEF m8 .

I dont see any of these problems to be honest.How can you say that it takes too long to destroy sieges?!U can spend 30 min setting up superior sieges in a tower just to see them getting deleted by 3 guys focusing on one at time and im not even talking about AoEs. Are you talking about a specific situation like,i dont know,trying to flip a camp and having people setting up a balista or ac?

You are in the wrong section: this is wvw,PvE is that way :p

But to be honest i would remove sieges and better positioning from the list since 2 aoes and the siege are gone and the catwalk is just a death trap for the same reason.

I think if you play the class you'll one, learn how to fight it and two gain a better respect for what your enemy is doing. It really is one of those classes that only seems OP when you don't know what their skills do or how to watch for what they will do next. Stealth so good u can be a clicker and win anyway.... :p

The WvW mount didnt sell that much...money is tight

If the game is too hard for you you could try some mobile games, maybe something with autoplay would be a good fit, don't have to work to counter anything. what is the counter of stealth?playing class without detection :/and i cant see overlords or overseer flying over me.. and i dont have a scan or a mobile turret. :( Then hide in spawn or log off if you can't. Or try some more emojis. I ask you again.What is the counter to stealth? When you dont have detection on your class. Speaking from a thief perspective (so no inherent class reveals); You can use stealth yourself, in order to negate their advantage and gain the opening strike. You would not believe the amount of pressure this can put on a player if done consistently. You can use skills that track through stealth (basically anything with a longer cast time or channel in conjunction with the skill queue) to pressure when they would otherwise be safe. I often queue a P/D 2 into malicious sneak attack on an enemy entering stealth, as long as the buttons were pressed when the target was visible the channel of sneak attack will hit. You can use terrain to your advantage; LoS to deal with ranged stealth builds like deadeye, bottlenecks and tight corners in conjunction with AoE CC and damage to pressure daredevil, spots where ports do not work reliably to deny shadowstep for the escape. You can build to condi bomb in the times they are visible, and heal when they enter stealth on low health knowing they can't risk an attack right then. You can use skills that target players regardless of if they are stealthed or not; deadeye stolen items when used will trigger a hit that deals damage to the marked player irrespective of stealth as long as they are in range, so using that in a condi build to apply a spider venom stack along with doom sigil and torment sigil can load up the thief with condi even when he's in stealth. Odds are there's more than one skill that functions in this way. You can drop area blinds/projectile reflect/blocks and wait for the stealth to expire. You can drop traps/preparations, stand on them and wait for the thief to engage. If he dodges through the trap to trigger it, he's within melee range so nuke him with PBAoE skills. You can use mobility skills to kite; a lot of heavy stealth builds have lower mobility than the average on other builds, so he has to choose between keeping up or keeping stealth. Either way it works in your favour. You can use z axis mobility vs builds that lack it either by design or through cooldowns; holosmith cannot port, so if you port onto the top of a wall when he stealths his advantage is totally negated. You can force a fight near sentries or towers with the sentry buff to mark the player and gain the advantage. You can use target painters and throw them at the smoke fields, revealing the thief. That's just off the top of my head. There are plenty of ways to deal with stealthed opponents, if you think clearly, know the class and what they can do and use terrain effectively. Yes on paper.In reality imo works kinda different. I could use stealth aswell,but my stealth (as a scrapper,for istance) is limited. I have CDs on my stealth options: no other profession can " consistently use stealth to add pressure" or stack that much stealth-time to get an opening strike on a thief.(hes going to restealth anyway and/or reset) I meeean....dont get me wrong,those are good general advices but still...

Please post the full videos then, otherwise there is little to no context except skewing the viewpoint from what is shown - we need to see how the fights were from the beginning of the encounter. Since you say you were there, you are also outnumbering the thief, how many people were at camp? Again, would need to see video of full engagement to see how you guys were handling the thief to really get an idea, otherwise I can also just say this is also a situation that experience in fighting thieves is what was needed. What?No no no no, i was not there m8.I dont know why you got that idea.you mean this "In the first clip we couldnt even see ".?

The problem here is kinda simple: there is no actual counterplay.Im not talking about the DMG i dont care if thieves can 5k or 10k you.Stealth is the problem. Im sorry but when i see people talking about "free pot shots to hit you from behind" or "There were a bunch of spots to los" i call BS. In the first clip we couldnt even see the thief getting inside the camp and even if you were able to react AT A GODLIKE SPEED,u burned your CD/evade and guess what?! the thief will be still invisible.And if its not he will be right before u could target him.How much initiative x seconds?!My defensive cd are around 15 to 30 secs each. When stealth can outlast everything u have on your bar it is BS

No.Im fine with the DMG the problem is the damn stealth time.I can get a 10 second stealth,i can get a 6 seconds invulnerability,i can get "x" blocks,i can get aegis and use 3 dodges . BUT If your stealth can outlast everything i have on my bar(conbined),honestly it doesnt matter what i do and/or how i use it: i have cooldowns stealth has no CDs

Too soon,for me.Im still seeing thieves invisibles 24/7 and yet doing crazy dmg: i mean im used to it so fuck it?!Im still getting hit by 5k dmg out of nowhere even in full trailblazer's,maybe its a build problem I dunno,i mean... very few mirage out there:and soul beast feels like "normal"?!More berzerkers than warriors?!Alot of DH and alot of core engi

Well to me the problem is not the 200 gold but the ugly A. reskin....i mean doesnt look like a "LOOK what i got with 200gold and some grind".

Honestly it shuld just take the time to say: "Omae wa mou shindeiru!!

I heard the "Q/Q" thief is pretty strong atm :)

ahahahahaha 200gold for that.AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA