How is this even possible? Can we not? Please Fix Anet.

[anduriell.6280]

So it is not enough with the stealth and spike damage this profession has but also it can teleport around ignoring terrain . I understand this class is extremely forgiving and noob friendly because it is the only one which can continuously reset the fight but come on i can't tell if this player is hacking or simply selected the only pixel available to perform this teleport. 

 

It is extremely frustrating to be forced to fight things like this, the mobility needs to be cut down. I don't think i am asking anything outrageous at least to require teleports a required a valid path to target within the range of the skill so any other profession can at least chase and nothing like this ever happen again . Any other class would be toasted with half the mistakes this thief did in 10 seconds. 

 

Can Anet fix this?

 

 

 

 

[knaive.9075]

This is probably one of those times where you would see all the limitations easily if you had experience as a thief, which would help immensely in knowing what they're doing and how to kill them easier.

 

Active (targeted) teleports the thief can use all rely on pathing, if the thief attempted to teleport to a place that they could not path to from their current ground, then it wouldn't activate and instead give them an error message. In the case of what you encountered, it's one of those times where the ground above you was actually linked by solid ground to your current, so there *is* in fact a solid, unbroken path to that upper spot. The exceptions to this are the "return" style blinks on sword and shadow step which move the thief back to a previous position, or their shadow portal, which is also effectively a return, but really functions more like a one-way mesmer portal.

 

As for mobility, in the video shown you were fighting a daredevil which is specifically designed for certain kinds of mobility.

 

All that aside, you weren't doing a whole lot of damage to the thief in the video, so it's unsurprising that it survived the fight that way. Hard to get a full story of the battle from just seven seconds though.

 

It might be handy to try out thief in the pvp lobby and see how far you can push the limits of the teleports, pop on some stealth and engage in the practice arena there etc. It may prove very insightful :)

[anduriell.6280]

1 minute ago, knaive.9075 said:

This is probably one of those times where you would see all the limitations easily if you had experience as a thief, which would help immensely in knowing what they're doing and how to kill them easier.

 

Active (targeted) teleports the thief can use all rely on pathing, if the thief attempted to teleport to a place that they could not path to from their current ground, then it wouldn't activate and instead give them an error message. In the case of what you encountered, it's one of those times where the ground above you was actually linked by solid ground to your current, so there *is* in fact a solid, unbroken path to that upper spot. The exceptions to this are the "return" style blinks on sword and shadow step which move the thief back to a previous position, or their shadow portal, which is also effectively a return, but really functions more like a one-way mesmer portal.

 

As for mobility, in the video shown you were fighting a daredevil which is specifically designed for certain kinds of mobility.

 

All that aside, you weren't doing a whole lot of damage to the thief in the video, so it's unsurprising that it survived the fight that way. Hard to get a full story of the battle from just seven seconds though.

 

It might be handy to try out thief in the pvp lobby and see how far you can push the limits of the teleports, pop on some stealth and engage in the practice arena there etc. It may prove very insightful 🙂

Yet the thief teleported one floor over. Such a fun build to play against. 

[Rukia.4802]

>thief noob friendly no skill

>runs perma immob autoattack condi ranger with trapper runes 

 

lmao

[MrForz.1953]

As much as there's room for plenty of debate... this won't end well.

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, MrForz.1953 said:

As much as there's room for plenty of debate... this won't end well.

Of course not we all know how overprotective thief mains are of their profession, but we need to talk about this. It is extremely unfun playing against a thief in WvW.  

 

If for some reason you get the upper hand  they just teleport away ignoring terrain so nobody can follow and reset the fight. In the case of the video or over cliffs, platforms, etc... It gets to the point whenever you see a thief you just want to stop playing. 

 

Other classes are limited by the reach of their teleport, they can not teleport to places they could not reach by walking  within the range.

Why does thief gets such an special treatment i don't get it anymore but as i said is not fun to meet somebody like this in game.  

 

[kash.9213]

12 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Of course not we all know how overprotective thief mains are of their profession, but we need to talk about this. It is extremely unfun playing against a thief in WvW.  

 

If for some reason you get the upper hand  they just teleport away ignoring terrain so nobody can follow and reset the fight. In the case of the video or over cliffs, platforms, etc... It gets to the point whenever you see a thief you just want to stop playing. 

 

Other classes are limited by the reach of their teleport, they can not teleport to places they could not reach by walking  within the range.

Why does thief gets such an special treatment i don't get it anymore but as i said is not fun to meet somebody like this in game.  

 

You're original question was disingenuous, you didn't want a question answered, you wanted to troll. If you're going to ugly cry about something at least don't be so wrong about everything, makes you look dumb. I'm not going to teleport to something you can't, pathing is the number one thief killer in SMC. It sounds like your build choices help thieves out, so thank you I guess.

[Fwank.4210]

All I see it Trapper rune.

[ASP.8093]

49 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Yet the thief teleported one floor over. Such a fun build to play against. 

Unlike, you know, Trapper rune condi ranger.

 

Nobody ever gets mad or cries "i can't tell if they're hacking!!!" about those.

[Vidit.7108]

1 hour ago, knaive.9075 said:

Active (targeted) teleports the thief can use all rely on pathing, if the thief attempted to teleport to a place that they could not path to from their current ground, then it wouldn't activate and instead give them an error message.

This.
 

 

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Other classes are limited by the reach of their teleport, they can not teleport to places they could not reach by walking  within the range.

There are a couple of classes besides thief that can do what happened at the end of your video, at least I know for sure they can do all the same skips I can in PvE.
Most notably Mesmer and Elementalist have ground target shadowstep/teleports that could reach there (Mesmer for sure). I think necro can make it's sand portal but i'm not sure. Also Guardian could do it but it takes two skills and frankly someone under pressure, in combat, that can pull it off is operating at really high skill level for a guradian. 

[itspomf.9523]

Really hard to see what's even going on in that video (you MIGHT want to censor it, since I'm pretty sure it's a violation of the forum's code of conduct), but if you ask me?

 

Without being able to see what weapon they're using (though the immobilize effect makes me think they used Shortbow's Infiltrator's Arrow or the Shadowstep skill), I suspect the thief in question dropped into the space with a return-type skill which would have stayed active for the brief duration of your encounter (Infiltrator's Return and Shadow Return both are 1200 range, which is possible here and with the issues with longbow trajectories (though you look to be using shortbow as well), while Shadow Portal has a range of 5000 and no casting time, which they could have kept in standby for up to 30s in PvP), and when they decided they were done kiting you around or fighting your allies, they simply disengaged.

 

Which, I needn't remind you after your having pointed it out, is perhaps the only true defense left to the profession after other players have repeatedly requested nerfs to the effectiveness, duration, and utility of stealth and related traits.

 

Can you really blame a player for leaving a potentially bad fight and making use of the tools available to them -- precisely as you were?

Edited August 22, 2021 by fluffdragon.1523

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Of course not we all know how overprotective thief mains are of their profession, but we need to talk about this. It is extremely unfun playing against a thief in WvW.  

 

If for some reason you get the upper hand  they just teleport away ignoring terrain so nobody can follow and reset the fight. In the case of the video or over cliffs, platforms, etc... It gets to the point whenever you see a thief you just want to stop playing. 

 

Other classes are limited by the reach of their teleport, they can not teleport to places they could not reach by walking  within the range.

Why does thief gets such an special treatment i don't get it anymore but as i said is not fun to meet somebody like this in game.  

 

Play the class man. You'll see that its pretty unfun to fight anything as a thief because the odds are so heavily stacked against you in most 1v1s. In order for thief to win a 1v1 they have to exploit tricks most other classes don't even bother with.

 

If you actually know what thief does, and their limitations, you can actually counter most things a thief does very easily. Much easier than the abomination of a build you were running.

 

Its so bad that we can actually tell you how to shutdown everything a thief can do. But just like what you did here... All yall do is complain about a class you don't have an understanding of instead of improve and learn 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[AikijinX.6258]

You know if you were soulbeast your pet could shadowstep thru the wall and chase the thief, even you would be able too as well, just saying. But condi trapper runes. I'd get outta there like that too if I were fighting kitten.

 

Just switch to your long bow next time, and do your cookie cutter rapid fire reveal debuff combo.

 

And Thief a forgiving class? lol.. I will admit there are "forgiving instances" but the class as a whole. No.

 

This is quite honestly a Lack of knowledge issue. (ignorance). Thieves have been able to port thru that type of terrain for years.

Edited August 22, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[ASP.8093]

1 minute ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

Play the class man. You'll see that its pretty unfun to fight anything as a thief because the odds are so heavily stacked against you in most 1v1s

In WvW, this is an absurd overstatement. You have decent damage output, a lot of flexibility in the fights you take, and your team doesn't auto-lose if you can't bring down some horrible tarpit bunker build that tries to camp a point.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

8 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

In WvW, this is an absurd overstatement. You have decent damage output, a lot of flexibility in the fights you take, and your team doesn't auto-lose if you can't bring down some horrible tarpit bunker build that tries to camp a point.

They are stacked against you. Your best tools are stealth and mobility.

 

Mean while you're dealing with classes with good access to AOEs, if they were smart they'd camp your teleport circles or spam where you cloaked.

 

If they don't want to be back stabbed they can put their back against a wall or spin quickly. Once thief cloaks.

 

If they learned certain patterns. They'd figure out that if a thief starts a certain skill animation way too far away, they are gonna steal onto you.

 

They have much better tools for survivability, regen, protection, barriers, etc, where you need to rely on actively dodging. Which works great... Till you have to deal with kitten that forces you to blow two dodges to not get chunked for most of your hp.

 

Your initiative works against you with how high your skill costs are, where another class can faceroll and explode you.

 

And even anet works against you, where they will gladly let some obvious issues linger for years and make them worse only to but its ok... They buffed pistol dagger.

 

Many utilities that would be useful are not used because either they sound good on paper and kitten in practice. Or they are bugged to hell for the past nine years.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I understand this class is extremely forgiving and noob friendly

Trapper ranger btw 🙃 

[Burial.1958]

6 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

So it is not enough with the stealth and spike damage this profession has but also it can teleport around ignoring terrain . I understand this class is extremely forgiving and noob friendly because it is the only one which can continuously reset the fight but come on i can't tell if this player is hacking or simply selected the only pixel available to perform this teleport. 

 

It is extremely frustrating to be forced to fight things like this, the mobility needs to be cut down. I don't think i am asking anything outrageous at least to require teleports a required a valid path to target within the range of the skill so any other profession can at least chase and nothing like this ever happen again . Any other class would be toasted with half the mistakes this thief did in 10 seconds. 

 

Can Anet fix this?

 

 

 

 

 

Thief is one of the most difficult classes to play in the Game. The Skill Cap is high. I would not call this class noob friendly. 

[saerni.2584]

Teleport spots are limited so it takes knowledge and preparation (need the skill or initiative for the teleport) to take advantage of that.

 

Any targeted teleport can take advantage of these spots, on Mesmer or (soon) Guardian. I think Necro can probably fleshwurm that spot. And if still you have a target, a number of professions can chase using target based teleports (including Soulbeast as mentioned). 

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

NGL, when I saw the title of this topic I thought you were meme-ing mine: Why is this even possible?, since they're both ranger versus thief, but sort of reverse scenarios.

 

That topic isn't even about Ranger, but about a bizarre dismount situation which may be due to a bug.  And still the Ranger cabal came out in force to explain away what happened, why it was my fault, make strawman arguments, and whataboutisms ("other builds can do it too"), etc.

 

Now I don't mean this in a mean way, but a certain proverb involving stones and glass houses comes to mind.

 

You certainly had some opinions in my thread (emphasis original):

  

On 8/2/2021 at 4:57 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

The [February 2020] patch was fine, the thing is Slb is supposed to be very bursty. The damage was taken down quite a lot, i remember being able to unmount peeps with AAs.  

Thou I don't like the idea or a whole e-spec depending on a couple of skills to function , apparently this is what anet wants. 

 

OP would just needs to L2P  , that build is pure glass with literally  0 survivability or mobility .

 

(The build in question there is the full zerkers Sic'em Sniper Roamer aka "Memebeast".  Despite unparalleled long range 1-shot capability, it absolutely does have ample survivability and mobility in the form of stealths, GS4 block, GS3 dash, Smoke Assault port + evade, etc.  But that wasn't even the point of my thread, which I repeatedly stated was not about Ranger.)

 

Which is why I can't help sensing the projection here:

 

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

we all know how overprotective thief mains are of their profession

 

^ Pretty much applies to every profession, Rangers no less.

 

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

It is extremely unfun playing against a thief in WvW.

 

Obviously a subjective statement with respect to "unfun," which could just as well apply to Sic'em SLB, Boonbeast, Immobeast, and Condi-Trapper Ranger.

 

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

If for some reason you get the upper hand  they just teleport away ignoring terrain so nobody can follow and reset the fight. In the case of the video or over cliffs, platforms, etc... It gets to the point whenever you see a thief you just want to stop playing.

 

With slight modifications, we can actually use your own statement from my thread here.  A lot of Thief players would probably agree that:

 

"Thou I don't like the idea o[f] a whole e-spec class (Thief) depending on a couple of skills mechanics (stealth and mobility) to function , apparently this is what anet wants.

 

Or as some say, about the only thing Thief excels at in WvW is running from fights.  Many Thief players would gladly exchange some of that disengage if they were allowed to actually remain in fights with the sustain, resustain, and consistent damage other classes enjoy.

 

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Other classes are limited by the reach of their teleport, they can not teleport to places they could not reach by walking  within the range.

Why does thief gets such an special treatment i don't get it anymore but as i said is not fun to meet somebody like this in game.

 

 

Thieves don't get special treatment.  All ports (but not portals) are limited by pathing.  A mesmer could Blink the same way the thief in your video Shadowstepped.

 

But comparing isolated skills among professions without comparing each profession as a whole is rather pointless.  Yes, thieves have ports, but rangers have (re)sustain.  Thief is squishy by nature; ranger isn't.  The life of 11K base-HP thieves is a dance on the razor's edge between killing or being killed even quicker.  As much as Thief players want it, there is currently no bruiser/brawler Thief build.  Maybe EoD will change that (one can hope).

 

Perhaps look at it this way: When thieves run, it's because they literally have no choice.  They certainly aren't going to re-sustain themselves mid-fight the way a lot of other classes can.

 

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I understand this class is extremely forgiving and noob friendly

 

Yeah... probably ill-advised to open with that, especially coming from Ranger.

[shrew.3059]

8 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I understand this class is extremely forgiving and noob friendly because it is the only one which can continuously reset the fight but come on i can't tell if this player is hacking or simply selected the only pixel available to perform this teleport. 

 

I’m curious: how did you think this sentence would be received by this audience?

 

As for the “it’s not fun to play against thieves”; it’s not fun to lose in PvP unless you fully understand why it happened and respect the skill it took to beat you. Two possible strategies (mentioned in this thread and others): learn the professions you have trouble with so you become familiar with their strengths and weaknesses, but most importantly, remember that not all failures in PvP are due to profession design, sometimes you just get outplayed. Plus, someone being really good at their profession can almost seem like cheating.

Edited August 22, 2021 by shrew.3059

[Zacchary.6183]

Run-n-Gun is a fun build. U goe FAS!!!

[Fwank.4210]

9 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I understand this class is extremely forgiving and noob friendly

 

Homie is playing ranger 🤡

[itspomf.9523]

2 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Or as some say, about the only thing Thief excels at in WvW is running from fights.  Many Thief players would gladly exchange some of that disengage if they were allowed to actually remain in fights with the sustain, resustain, and consistent damage other classes enjoy.

 

As a PvE player having recently unlocked Warclaw in WvW on a whim, yes, this is 1000% my own experience as playing my thief character the whole while, while foolishly thinking my ability to drop into stealth would help me actually evade the very enemy combatants who could down me from 1500+ range or throw up a Shroud or 10k heal before I could so much as build enough might to chip off 25% of their health (or in the former case, so much as engage).  During that entire experience, I managed to stealth past 1 entire player, who I strongly believe was legitimately more surprised by seeing a lone thief try to kite NPCs off a camp to basically murder them in a dark alleyway (and probably let me run because they felt bad for me).

 

I'd happily trade shadowsteps and evades and all these movement skills for the ability to take a kittening hit or two without having to mindlessly press the offensive to heal off Invigorating Precision or feel shoehorned into DPS / Decap / +1 "roles" in every fight.

 

(And yes, even PvE is guilty of this kind of stuff, where our only choices in more difficult fights is to stay out of attack range (hard to do with a maximum of 900 range by default) or relying on overly offensive play-styles where Marauders is the go-to "best survival" option, which is honestly pretty sad.)

Edited August 23, 2021 by fluffdragon.1523

[Dagger.2035]

This is definitely a l2p moment.  Four other professions can do the same thing and this has been possible for years.

[Arolandis.8360]

Thieves die in like two hits so they have to learn a lot more and make smarter moves to counter people. I don't think they should be punished for that.

 

Sad that someone you wanted to pew pew got away. Must have really sucked for you.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Arolandis.8360