Can ranger get a rifle in EoD?

[Xanadrine.4352]

I have been wanting a long range rifle on ranger since I started. I was disappointed when I saw they didn't get one when I made the character. To me ranger is a type of hunter, hunters use guns bows crossbows traps, as well as woodsmen use knives axes. GS never fit the idea of a ranger to me, it felt out of place, where by rifles long guns go better than GS, we have a marksman line that would bolster a rifle just fine. Please dont give rangers hammer that absolutely makes no sense.

[Dante.1763]

Probably to late, also Bunny Thumper has been asked for forever, kinda cant wait to see what Hamranger will be like.

[Touchme.1097]

I feel pistol and rifles don't belong to Ranger, black powder suits Warriors and Thieves best

[Ehecatl.9172]

4 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

I feel pistol and rifles don't belong to Ranger, black powder suits Warriors and Thieves best

 

Eh, I think there's enough design space on ranger to include a rifle at the very least. A big game hunter on a safari would be a type of ranger if translated into GW2. Maybe make it a stealth heavy elite spec that plays a bit like a Deadeye but with a nature theme.

 

A mechanic that might make the rifle unique from longbow; It has the same range as the longbow but does less damage the further the target is from you, so the goal of the weapon is to engage and try to balance getting closer to your target for more damage while retaining enough distance to keep yourself safe.

 

Pistols though I'd have a hard time coming up with a good justification for. You don't really hunt with a pistol.

 

My dream weapon is a land spear but at this point I don't think Anet is ever going to give us one.

[Touchme.1097]

8 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

Eh, I think there's enough design space on ranger to include a rifle at the very least. A big game hunter on a safari would be a type of ranger if translated into GW2. Maybe make it a stealth heavy elite spec that plays a bit like a Deadeye but with a nature theme.

The point is this is not WoW where big game hunters are common in the lore, GW2 rangers are attuned to nature. 

You already have Soulbeast as a ranged DPS, you can actually press a button and hit harder than a rifle DE. Oh the irony...One button killers in WvW are still broken. This will continue until soulbeast gets nerfed of course.

Guild Wars 2 Sic Em Soulbeast Solo Roaming: Absolutely Disgusting Oneshots - YouTube

As it is right now, Ranger can both burst from range Rapid Fire - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) and stealth Hunter's Shot - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

It doesn't need another ranged weapon like rifle.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Touchme.1097
Additional info

[InsaneQR.7412]

Well ranger is more of an attuned to nature woodsman and nature warrior in this game than a hunter of animals.

 

I think the most "hunter" feeling you ever get so far is playing a deadeye. You will mark your target, set up the kill, and then shoot.

[Ehecatl.9172]

2 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

The point is this is not WoW where big game hunters are common in the lore, GW2 rangers are attuned to nature. 

You already have Soulbeast as a ranged DPS, you can actually press a button and hit harder than a rifle DE. Oh the irony...One button killers in WvW are still broken. This will continue until soulbeast gets nerfed of course.

Guild Wars 2 Sic Em Soulbeast Solo Roaming: Absolutely Disgusting Oneshots - YouTube

As it is right now, Ranger can both burst from range Rapid Fire - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) and stealth Hunter's Shot - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

It doesn't need another ranged weapon like rifle.

 

Who ever mentioned WoW? And do you think hunters aren't "attuned to nature"? They spend most of their time out in dangerous wildernesses hunting animals that can normally kill humans. That requires knowledge of both the animals they hunt and the environment they are hunting in. Oftentimes it requires tamed animals to hunt alongside too. This especially translates to Tyria where some animals are a threat to entire squads of human soldiers. A specialist in taking down major threats like wyrms, wyverns, and other massive super creatures would fit in with the lore of Tyria very well.

 

Also if you think Hunter's Shot is equal to an elite spec focused on having multiple ways to access stealth you're sorely mistaken.

 

You also seem to have not even read my suggestion about how rifle could be different from longbow if you think the Sic Em Soulbeast build is exactly that playstyle. If you're going to try and argue with me you can at least read what I wrote.

[Touchme.1097]

6 minutes ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

And do you think hunters aren't "attuned to nature"?

Hunters and Rangers are two different things, and I hope they stay separated in the future. You already have 2 bows and 1 staff in your arsenal, that's plenty enough.

"Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled survivalists with traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation."

Edited August 29, 2021 by Touchme.1097
Additional info

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

 

Who ever mentioned WoW? And do you think hunters aren't "attuned to nature"? They spend most of their time out in dangerous wildernesses hunting animals that can normally kill humans. That requires knowledge of both the animals they hunt and the environment they are hunting in. Oftentimes it requires tamed animals to hunt alongside too. This especially translates to Tyria where some animals are a threat to entire squads of human soldiers. A specialist in taking down major threats like wyrms, wyverns, and other massive super creatures would fit in with the lore of Tyria very well.

 

Also if you think Hunter's Shot is equal to an elite spec focused on having multiple ways to access stealth you're sorely mistaken.

 

You also seem to have not even read my suggestion about how rifle could be different from longbow if you think the Sic Em Soulbeast build is exactly that playstyle. If you're going to try and argue with me you can at least read what I wrote.

The bigger problem for rifle I see is that the weapon is thematically associated with industrialisation and therefore exploitation of nature, which is a thematical opposite to what ranger is supposed to represent in the game.

 

I could point towards popular other media examples, like Princess Mononoke, in which the newly invented guns started to make people raid nature to get the needed metal and gunpowder.

 

But I can also point at Tyria itself.

Guns are most commonly used by Charr in the game, which are basically the driving force behind industrialisation in Tyria with their war machines and general steampunk thematic.

 

Charr are also the inventors of the engineer profession (hence why the class is always represented as a Charr for promotional purposes), it is no coincidence that engineer is the only class in the game which has access to both firearms in core (thief gets access to both after the deadeye elite spec, warrior is likely to get access with the next elite spec) and they even have a trait line which is called firearms.

 

These are the reasons why I don't see rifles fitting for ranger thematically. Nature and technological advancement are oftenly pictured as opposing forces in media, with firearms representing the latter.

[Ehecatl.9172]

12 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

Hunters and Rangers are two different things, and I hope they stay separated in the future. You already have 2 bows and 1 staff in your arsenal, that's plenty enough.

"Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled survivalists with traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation."

 

They might be two different things but there is a massive amount of overlap. More than enough for hunter to be an elite specialization of the ranger.

 

A ranger is a keeper of a park, forest, or countryside or someone attached to a military or police force that patrols a large area either as a scout or a bringer of law.

 

A hunter can absolutely be any of the above in addition to being a skilled hunter. If we go back to the origins of the fantasy ranger in LOTR the Dunedain policed the former kingdom of Arnor by stalking the wilderness and slaying all sorts of minions of Sauron. If we go to DnD it becomes someone who lives on the edges of civilization that HUNTS and kills monsters that are a threat to local towns, keeping the wilderness safe for travelers.

 

I mean Heck you yourself literally linked the skill Hunter's Shot on our longbow and are trying to argue the ranger has absolutely no hunter themes in it at all.

 

10 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The bigger problem for rifle I see is that the weapon is thematically associated with industrialisation and therefore exploitation of nature, which is a thematical opposite to what ranger is supposed to represent in the game.

 

I could point towards popular other media examples, like Princess Mononoke, in which the newly invented guns started to make people raid nature to get the needed metal and gunpowder.

 

But I can also point at Tyria itself.

Guns are most commonly used by Charr in the game, which are basically the driving force behind industrialisation in Tyria with their war machines and general steampunk thematic.

 

Charr are also the inventors of the engineer profession (hence why the class is always represented as a Charr for promotional purposes), it is no coincidence that engineer is the only class in the game which has access to both firearms in core (thief gets access to both after the deadeye elite spec, warrior is likely to get access with the next elite spec) and they even have a trait line which is called firearms.

 

These are the reasons why I don't see rifles fitting for ranger thematically. Nature and technological advancement are oftenly pictured as opposing forces in media, with firearms representing the latter.

 

While I see where you're coming from I also don't really agree. A rifle doesn't require that much more industrialization than forging a greatsword does, and while it can be seen as a symbol of the coming of technology it fits pretty easily into the hands of an outdoorsman who lives off the land through their mastery of nature.

 

The charr do use guns, but do you know who else does? The centaur, who live in rugged tribal camps and are otherwise wholly low-tech. Likely because they stole them from the humans and recognized their value. Guns can be seen as another tool in one's arsenal to be used by a keen eyed survivalist, and that is exactly what a ranger is.

 

If a ranger is someone who roams the wilderness keeping the wilds safe for travelers and saving towns from dangerous fauna then a firearm fits their theme just fine. If the elite spec doubles down on the "safeguarding the people from the dangers of the wild" side of the class a rifle makes perfect sense.

 

But it can also be thematic of the spec leans to the other extreme. We don't fight poachers with bows and arrows. We fight them with firearms. A game warden who is set to defend an exotic, endangered species is going to be using a rifle because it is the most efficient tool for the job.

 

And besides all this... Isn't that what an elite spec is supposed to be for? Exploring avenues of a class' fantasy that aren't always a traditional expression of that class? I mean Heck the new mesmer elite spec is a knife summoner rather than an illusionist.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Ehecatl.9172

[Gotejjeken.1267]

This topic pops up way too often...

 

Look, GW2 rangers are not hunter's, they do not use firearms specifically due to the communing with nature.  As a parallel, this would be like giving engineer a staff and having it use spirits...it makes no sense within the context of the class.  

 

As for greatsword, it doesn't make as much sense as the expansion weapons (staff, dagger)--but it really was the only melee choice they had because hammer was considered a bruiser weapons and ranger is not a bruiser class.  Now with EoD it makes more sense as they are 'breaking class molds' so ranger may finally get a bruiser spec. 

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

I won’t really get into the “Rifles don’t fit Rangers because industrialization” argument because I’m sure there’s ways it can work and justifications for allowing rifles if done correctly.
 

However, I would still lean away from wanting rifle at the moment though because I feel the things that a rifle would typically do (ie, ranged dps) are already covered by Longbow, a very flexible weapon that allows for good single target damage and niche AoE damage at a very long range. I don’t see rifle offering something unique that is not already covered by what we have.

 

In addition, I can’t immediately see rifle complementing an elite spec theme that isn’t better covered by another potential weapon. There’s still some notable gameplay styles that Ranger is lacking (I’m still a huge supporter of Ranger getting some elite spec that helps them thrive in zergs) which should be covered first before getting to elite specs that have more niche roles and weapons, such as rifle. Examples of things Ranger cannot yet do or are not a strong point for a play style are:

-Boon support (ie, alacrity or quickness)

-Boon removal (currently available to 6 classes in some form)

-Zerg play style (a very broad statement. Only “viable” build is Immobeast which is still extremely niche)

-A “bruiser” build (kinda sorta, partially got this with Soulbeast, but Ranger as a whole is very hit-and-run/skirmish-y/avoid damage rather than taking damage).

There can definitely be a way to focus on a elite spec on one of these roles and have rifle complement it, but I feel there are other weapons that can be more fitting than a rifle that also offer a unique role compared to Rifle competing directly with Longbow.

Edited August 30, 2021 by AlexndrTheGreat.8310

[Lazze.9870]

14 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

They might be two different things but there is a massive amount of overlap. More than enough for hunter to be an elite specialization of the ranger.

 

A ranger is a keeper of a park, forest, or countryside or someone attached to a military or police force that patrols a large area either as a scout or a bringer of law.

 

A hunter can absolutely be any of the above in addition to being a skilled hunter. If we go back to the origins of the fantasy ranger in LOTR the Dunedain policed the former kingdom of Arnor by stalking the wilderness and slaying all sorts of minions of Sauron. If we go to DnD it becomes someone who lives on the edges of civilization that HUNTS and kills monsters that are a threat to local towns, keeping the wilderness safe for travelers.

 

I mean Heck you yourself literally linked the skill Hunter's Shot on our longbow and are trying to argue the ranger has absolutely no hunter themes in it at all.

 

Well, Hunter's Shot is just a name from the original game. Like numerous other skills in this game. Half the warrior longbow skills and thief shortbow skills were ranger skills in GW.

 

Thematically, ranger in GW, both the original or the current game, has always been more about communing with nature as an "ally" of sort, through animals, nature spirits, natural medicine and whatnot. Anyone saying greatsword or hammer don't fit ranger, less so than firearms do, is completely out of touch with what this class is supposed to represent in Anet's games.

 

The thematic differences in the harpoon gun skills between ranger and engineer says a lot to be honest.

 

If Anet had stuck with their original idea of splitting GW1 ranger into Warden, Marksman, Beastmaster and whatever else they had planned, then rifle on Marksman would have made a lot of sense. But after deciding to scrap those ideas and use what they had to bring back ranger into GW2, the rifle concept falls pretty far behind any of the core weapons, or staff, dagger and presumably hammer which we have gotten/will get with elite specs.

 

I'd argue that scepter/focus and off-hand sword fit the bill a lot more than what rifle and especially pistols do. I also don't see the point of adding a rifle to ranger. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Xanadrine.4352]

On 8/29/2021 at 2:43 AM, Touchme.1097 said:

Hunters and Rangers are two different things, and I hope they stay separated in the future. You already have 2 bows and 1 staff in your arsenal, that's plenty enough.

"Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled survivalists with traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation."

Excuse me but swinging a greatsword dont break your immersion? What about rangers with hammers? come on man a hammer really? Long guns before hammers ,hammers have no business on rangers!

 

And another thing people keep mentioning a bruiser build, we basically have that with greatsword and dual axe. But a hammer build would be ridiculous on a ranger, rangers are supposed to be lithe agile forest roaming class. Im sure lugging a big two handed hammer through the woods makes sense.😂

Edited August 30, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Kodama.6453]

8 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Excuse me but swinging a greatsword dont break your immersion? What about rangers with hammers? come on man a hammer really? Long guns before hammers ,hammers have no business on rangers!

Don't see why a hammer should break immersion.

Rangers are primal warriors in tune with nature, fighting alongside beasts and channelling nature magic.

 

A hammer is a fairly primal weapon in my book, especially since we have hammer skins in the game which are basically just clubs. I can picture a tribal warrior swinging a hammer/warclub as their weapon, but a rifle would kinda feel out of place.

[Xanadrine.4352]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Don't see why a hammer should break immersion.

Rangers are primal warriors in tune with nature, fighting alongside beasts and channelling nature magic.

 

A hammer is a fairly primal weapon in my book, especially since we have hammer skins in the game which are basically just clubs. I can picture a tribal warrior swinging a hammer/warclub as their weapon, but a rifle would kinda feel out of place.

Rangers are not warriors, imo greatsword shouldnt be on a ranger either.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

On 8/29/2021 at 3:43 AM, Touchme.1097 said:

Hunters and Rangers are two different things, and I hope they stay separated in the future. You already have 2 bows and 1 staff in your arsenal, that's plenty enough.

"Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled survivalists with traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation."

Lmao what? Rangers are rangers because they range the land, hunters are just what some games use to name their rangers to be a bit different so every bow/nature/survivalist class isn't always bearing the same name. Every game that uses hunter as a ranger esq class always includes some nature aspect, only classes called hunter that are being used as the games rogue like don't.

Let me ask u this, as a ranger who is a woodsman/survivalist warrior that has such a link to nature that he can use it to aid in his fight, how do they eat? Do they hunt animals, are they expert huntsman due to their knowledge and respect for nature, or all of the rangers vegetarians? Lol.

Bows are more fitting to a ranger compared to rifle but a rifle most definitely can fit with a ranger lol.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Swagger.1459]

18 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Excuse me but swinging a greatsword dont break your immersion? What about rangers with hammers? come on man a hammer really? Long guns before hammers ,hammers have no business on rangers!

 

And another thing people keep mentioning a bruiser build, we basically have that with greatsword and dual axe. But a hammer build would be ridiculous on a ranger, rangers are supposed to be lithe agile forest roaming class. Im sure lugging a big two handed hammer through the woods makes sense.😂

Well, Rangers are getting hammer so you’ll just have to accept that.

 

I think you lack imagination honestly. And if you want to gripe about “immersion” and things that “make sense”, then we would need to remove thousands of elements from the game. 
 

You are also making a mistake by trying to fit in whatever you think a “Ranger” culminates to, and what you assume it’s supposed to be, based off of other sources and games. This is the world of Tyria, not whatever fantasy world or other IP, and in this world things can be whatever the devs decide them to be. 
 

Finally, Rangers in this game aren’t bound to “forest” settings, so the argument of creeping around in a forest with X weapon being silly is silly. 
 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Rangers are not warriors, imo greatsword shouldnt be on a ranger either.

Well technically every single class in a mmo are warriors. Warriors are just people that are chosen for battle situations. Ranger would be a nature themed warrior and often a lot of Weapons used on the battlefield are also used as tools for survival in nature, ie one handed/2 handed axes(not so much battle axes though) daggers/knives, bows, rifles, spears among others. They would be good at tracking, hunting and trap setting, almost like a survivalist rogue class that's sturdier than a rogue and has a familiarity with the use of a lot of the same weapon types a warrior would use in battle, except for shields, and battle hammers as the standout ones that seem out of place imo.

 

Than u have rangers in games that are warden like that are basically the ones policing and enforcing the laws of the lands they watch over. 

 

I do agree war hammer is weird on ranger, a normal hammer would be more fitting but who wouldn't rather a Warhammer?? Lol.

Even elementlists are warrior mages, so I'd say Givin all the classes battle their all technically warriors. Warriors in gw2 are just the strait up fighter/battle class that follows the basic warrior tropes lol, always gotta have that spinning greatsword skill, no matter the game.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Well technically every single class in a mmo are warriors. Warriors are just people that are chosen for battle situations. Ranger would be a nature themed warrior and often a lot of Weapons used on the battlefield are also used as tools for survival in nature, ie one handed/2 handed axes(not so much battle axes though) daggers/knives, bows, rifles, spears among others. They would be good at tracking, hunting and trap setting, almost nature rogue like.

 

Than u have rangers in games that are warden like that are basically the ones policing and enforcing the laws of the lands they watch over. 

 

I do agree war hammer is weird on ranger, a normal hammer would be more fitting but who wouldn't rather a Warhammer?? Lol.

Even elementlists are warrior mages, so I'd say Givin all the classes battle their all technically warriors. Warriors in gw2 are just the strait up fighter/battle class that follows the basic warrior tropes lol, always gotta have that spinning greatsword skill, no matter the game.

Ughh just what I dont want another 2 handed slow weapon thats heavy and bulky.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Well I always thought a great hammer was a silly idea on a ranger it seems to be a popular thing in gw1.

I was hoping for land spear as a melee/ranged weapon, great axe stylized in gw2 style to be similar in looks to a wood cutting axe,, hunting rifle. 

Considering anets devs have created its ranger class as a mash up of all ranger archetypes, bit nature/survivalist, bit druid and to top it off lotr and game of thrones rangers who are as good of fighters with ge other battle weapons as they are with the bow, imo they could have done better imo then great hammers but if it's what the majority want...so be it lol.

[Amadeus.5687]

1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Rangers are not warriors, imo greatsword shouldnt be on a ranger either.

 

Whenever this discussion comes up:

Aragon from lord of the ringers is the stereotypical fantasy ranger and his weapons of choice is:
Longbo

Longsword (Can be used one handed or two-handed, but more often then not he uses it with two hands)
and he also wields a dagger off hand sometimes.

Since we don't have longswords, we get the greatsword which is very much in line with the ranger trope.
If you look to Dungeons and Dragons you will likewise see rangers wield Longswords all the time.

I just realized our censor system won't allow me to type B-Sword. so I edit it to longsword I guess

Edited August 30, 2021 by Amadeus.5687

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Well, Rangers are getting hammer so you’ll just have to accept that.

 

I think you lack imagination honestly. And if you want to gripe about “immersion” and things that “make sense”, then we would need to remove thousands of elements from the game. 
 

You are also making a mistake by trying to fit in whatever you think a “Ranger” culminates to, and what you assume it’s supposed to be, based off of other sources and games. This is the world of Tyria, not whatever fantasy world or other IP, and in this world things can be whatever the devs decide them to be. 
 

Finally, Rangers in this game aren’t bound to “forest” settings, so the argument of creeping around in a forest with X weapon being silly is silly. 
 

I agree either ur post except for ur last paragraph. Anets rangers are heavily influenced by the nature esq ranger archetype, its just also heavily influenced by the lotr, game of thrones and d&d type ranger archetypes as well which makes them very versatile in gw2 being being basically warrior archetype mixed with a nature/survivalist archetype. 

U are right though if u try and adhere each class too much to static archetype then u would lose a lot of what makes gw2 class system unique.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Rangers are not warriors, imo greatsword shouldnt be on a ranger either.

Last I checked, what an actual Ranger is, even in reality, is one who maintains and protects natural reserves, forest, parks, public lands and so on. Greatswords fit just fine on their arsenal.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

13 minutes ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

 

Whenever this discussion comes up:

Aragon from lord of the ringers is the stereotypical fantasy ranger and his weapons of choice is:
Longbow
kitten Sword (Can be used one handed or two-handed, but more often then not he uses it with two hands)
and he also wields a dagger off hand sometimes.

Since we don't have kitten swords, we get the greatsword which is very much in line with the ranger trope.
If you look to Dungeons and Dragons you will likewise see rangers wield Longswords/kitten swords all the time.
 

To add drizzt is d&d's most famous ranger who uses two swords and was trained initially as a fighter before meeting a old ranger in his sacred forest, the ranger trained him in the Rangers ways and beliefs and drizzt came to the conclusion that these ways were completely in tune with his beliefs and values and thus from then on was a ranger.

John snow was considered a ranger, didn't really use a bow but was more sword, even sword and board at times, also used two handed swords/spears.

Like u mentioned many warriors in lotr where Rangers who used swords and such over bow. 

What do they all have in common? All had survival skills, lived in forest or tough climates( reason for survival knowledge) and lastly all had a certain noble predisposition with their beliefs and actions. 

There are multiple versions of rangers in fantasy but they all share some commonalities, gw2 version is just a mix of all of em.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107