New elite specialization: The Vindicator

[Shao.7236]

2 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

No doubt, I wish they would come back and give Rev's another off-hand for core because it's in desperate need of one.  Maybe someday but definitely not today nor tomorrow.

There's ways around making the original off-hands work with a ranged main-hand. Revenant highly depends on being close quarters to be effective which is why we have so many skills that brings us right the face of enemies, esp Phase Smash which is often seen as a bad skill being actually one of the best counter pressure that synergize with the best of Revenant traits.

Just before I have others quoting me again on this, I can explain it but don't come in arguing to me like I care that it isn't a ranged main-hand or that it's GS. I'm only in it to talk about my thoughts, not wishing.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Shao.7236

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

35 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

You'd be hoping that GS gets a block because I don't think it will, this would still be a lesser issue if Anet hadn't removed blocks from offhand sword to begin with. Why would a slower weapon be better in raids anyway, what could beat large AoE utility support? It's easy to tell why Renegade is gonna be on top until it is unfairly nerfed. GS will not replace Staff, as badly as everyone including me wants it to be, it would be ridiculous if GS got sustain skills as a better damage weapon while Sw/Sw gets the short end of the stick years later where it was already bad in accordance to most. I have already a hard time trusting the community when it comes to those things because a lot of the curating contradict itself when it comes to Open world.

 

You're the one assuming I am in an hissy fit. It'll be all the more satisfying if my predictions align right. Most of what they've shown is exactly the way I said it. Esp, the leap earthquake.

 

I have all the rights to state that GS is gonna be a slow close range AoE focused and players will complain about it. Revenant doesn't have anything like it and we don't need to replace weapons. Players wanted cleave, they'll get cleave, but not power crept cleave.

Uhhhh, you didn’t see the block skill in the trailer?  
 

the one thing you said that I do agree with though is the unnecessary removal block on sword 4

Edited September 16, 2021 by Lonewolf Kai.3682

[Shao.7236]

26 minutes ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

Uhhhh, you didn’t see the block skill in the trailer?  

I assumed it to be the healing skill given the effects (small orbs that may work like enchanted daggers?), the theme of the spec seems highly focused on countering attacks with how there's what seems to be rollback evade as 4th skill and leap earthquake as 5th skill. Uncertain about the two others, the dash looks like 3rd, the big cleave being 2nd. If not, that would give great mobility to the GS.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Shao.7236

[genjonah.1253]

Aww man, sword 4 used to have a block? I started Revving waaaaay late in the game, I would’ve been furious at that change 

[RabbitUp.8294]

3 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

You'd be hoping that GS gets a block because I don't think it will, this would still be a lesser issue if Anet hadn't removed blocks from offhand sword to begin with. Why would a slower weapon be better in raids anyway, what could beat large AoE utility support? It's easy to tell why Renegade is gonna be on top until it is unfairly nerfed. GS will not replace Staff, as badly as everyone including me wants it to be, it would be ridiculous if GS got sustain skills as a better damage weapon while Sw/Sw gets the short end of the stick years later where it was already bad in accordance to most. I have already a hard time trusting the community when it comes to those things because a lot of the curating contradict itself when it comes to Open world.

 

You're the one assuming I am in an hissy fit. It'll be all the more satisfying if my predictions align right. Most of what they've shown is exactly the way I said it. Esp, the leap earthquake.

 

I have all the rights to state that GS is gonna be a slow close range AoE focused and players will complain about it. Revenant doesn't have anything like it and we don't need to replace weapons. Players wanted cleave, they'll get cleave, but not power crept cleave.

The viability of GS is completely seperate from the viabiltiy of Vindicator. For pve dps, it's a matter of what the traits and skills offer. Vindicator could be good dps using core weapons. Also, it seems like there might be a support angle since the trailet talkes about "protecting allies".

And we still have weapon swap, remember? Condi renegade uses both mace/axe and shortbow to rotate their cooldowns, vindicator could do the same. 

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I assumed it to be the healing skill given the effects (small orbs that may work like enchanted daggers?)

Not with that animation, he was holding the GS in front of him, similar to ranger. If it was a utility or heal, it would not use the weapon.

10 minutes ago, genjonah.1253 said:

Aww man, sword 4 used to have a block? I started Revving waaaaay late in the game, I would’ve been furious at that change 

Ehh, you can see the old sword here.

Sword off-hand was practically never used, it was a more awkward shield, and skill 5 was too situational. Of course, that was when herald was the only way to play revenant, so the fact that sword had a block as a core weapon would at least have some merit nowadays, but it also meant we had no power damage off-hand.

[Elric.4713]

From the press brief:

Revenant – Vindicator

They once stood together to conquer Shiro Tagachi at the Harvest Temple. Revenants of Tyria can now reach through the Mists and channel the power of Archemorous and Saint Viktor zu Heltzer—the great Heroes of Cantha. With the power of an ocean wave, Archemorous brings his Luxon prowess to the battlefield with unmatched might, while Viktor harnesses the elegance of his Kurzick blood to aid your allies. The Legendary Alliance is eager to stand with you in battle, and even more eager to see the shores of Cantha once again.
 

The vindicator swings into the battle like a wrecking ball, expending endurance and energy to cleave down swathes of enemies and bolster allies.
 

First off, the baseline changes for this specialization: vindicators have had their dodge ability modified so that it can only be used at maximum endurance, but in turn it allows them free movement while it's active and triggers a powerful effect when it ends. This ability can be modified via grandmaster traits to inflict further devastation on enemies or provide support for allies. Additionally, the baseline profession skill True Nature has been replaced with Energy Meld and will allow you to trade energy for endurance.
 

Greatsword is unlocked for use with the revenant’s vindicator specialization, closing gaps, holding ground, and wreaking havoc on multiple foes. Gathering and unleashing the Mists from the blade, this specialization focuses on being in the face of multiple foes and creating dangerous situations that are difficult for them to avoid.
 

Lastly, the vindicator will unlock the champions of the Luxon and Kurzick as the dual-natured Legendary Alliance. This legend's abilities function as an ebb and flow, with the abilities of the Luxon Archemorus incentivizing selfish and aggressive behavior and the Kurzick Saint Viktor encouraging defensive and supportive behavior. Each of these abilities flip to their opposing ability upon use, putting the slot on cooldown and creating a back-and-forth style of play. In order to open up more gameplay possibilities when using this stance, Energy Meld will change to Alliance Tactics and immediately flip all current alliance skills to their counterparts.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

10 minutes ago, Elric.4713 said:

From the press brief:

Revenant – Vindicator

They once stood together to conquer Shiro Tagachi at the Harvest Temple. Revenants of Tyria can now reach through the Mists and channel the power of Archemorous and Saint Viktor zu Heltzer—the great Heroes of Cantha. With the power of an ocean wave, Archemorous brings his Luxon prowess to the battlefield with unmatched might, while Viktor harnesses the elegance of his Kurzick blood to aid your allies. The Legendary Alliance is eager to stand with you in battle, and even more eager to see the shores of Cantha once again.
 

The vindicator swings into the battle like a wrecking ball, expending endurance and energy to cleave down swathes of enemies and bolster allies.
 

First off, the baseline changes for this specialization: vindicators have had their dodge ability modified so that it can only be used at maximum endurance, but in turn it allows them free movement while it's active and triggers a powerful effect when it ends. This ability can be modified via grandmaster traits to inflict further devastation on enemies or provide support for allies. Additionally, the baseline profession skill True Nature has been replaced with Energy Meld and will allow you to trade energy for endurance.
 

Greatsword is unlocked for use with the revenant’s vindicator specialization, closing gaps, holding ground, and wreaking havoc on multiple foes. Gathering and unleashing the Mists from the blade, this specialization focuses on being in the face of multiple foes and creating dangerous situations that are difficult for them to avoid.
 

Lastly, the vindicator will unlock the champions of the Luxon and Kurzick as the dual-natured Legendary Alliance. This legend's abilities function as an ebb and flow, with the abilities of the Luxon Archemorus incentivizing selfish and aggressive behavior and the Kurzick Saint Viktor encouraging defensive and supportive behavior. Each of these abilities flip to their opposing ability upon use, putting the slot on cooldown and creating a back-and-forth style of play. In order to open up more gameplay possibilities when using this stance, Energy Meld will change to Alliance Tactics and immediately flip all current alliance skills to their counterparts.

a link would be helpful

[Elric.4713]

1 minute ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

a link would be helpful

Here you go.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

Just now, Elric.4713 said:

Here you go.

thank you!

[Shao.7236]

40 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

The viability of GS is completely seperate from the viabiltiy of Vindicator. For pve dps, it's a matter of what the traits and skills offer. Vindicator could be good dps using core weapons. Also, it seems like there might be a support angle since the trailet talkes about "protecting allies".

And we still have weapon swap, remember? Condi renegade uses both mace/axe and shortbow to rotate their cooldowns, vindicator could do the same. 

Not with that animation, he was holding the GS in front of him, similar to ranger. If it was a utility or heal, it would not use the weapon.

Ehh, you can see the old sword here.

Sword off-hand was practically never used, it was a more awkward shield, and skill 5 was too situational. Of course, that was when herald was the only way to play revenant, so the fact that sword had a block as a core weapon would at least have some merit nowadays, but it also meant we had no power damage off-hand.

Nothing stopped them from increasing damage co-efficients in the past. Duelist Preparation was literally Shackling Waves as a follow up but with weak damage, with how everyone is complaining about Revenant spikes, forcing users to at least block one attack to access the skill would have toned down complains, the block was otherwise great at 2 seconds without any movement restrictions.

 

Deathstrike was a pull that dragged both players but again did no damage for whatever reason.

 

In the past Axe was the better power option and to this day it still competes with Sword Off-hand.

 

Also recycling animations with different intend is nothing new. Because of how similar it looks to the healing effect, I won't be convinced until I see it.

 

However because I just read the press release now, it is likely to get a block since Revenant loses on double evade, based on the saying "Can only Evade at Maximum endurance". This changes the perspective drastically.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

Well from the press release the mechanics seem interesting so I'm excited to see how it all works tomorrow now.  Even though I was originally disappointed by the legend choices I think this might be good

[Ausar.9542]

1 hour ago, genjonah.1253 said:

Aww man, sword 4 used to have a block? I started Revving waaaaay late in the game, I would’ve been furious at that change 

nah it was a good change. The Damage of off hand sword is on skill 4. Skill 5 is same old same old. The block is overrated.  The Burst on Sword is a requirement for non condition unless you have Shiro/Herald than Hammer works. 

[Ausar.9542]

5 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Nothing stopped them from increasing damage co-efficients in the past. Duelist Preparation was literally Shackling Waves as a follow up but with weak damage, with how everyone is complaining about Revenant spikes, forcing users to at least block one attack to access the skill would have toned down complains, the block was otherwise great at 2 seconds without any movement restrictions.

 

Deathstrike was a pull that dragged both players but again did no damage for whatever reason.

 

In the past Axe was the better power option and to this day it still competes with Sword Off-hand.

 

Also recycling animations with different intend is nothing new. Because of how similar it looks to the healing effect, I won't be convinced until I see it.

 

However because I just read the press release now, it is likely to get a block since Revenant loses on double evade, based on the saying "Can only Evade at Maximum endurance". This changes the perspective drastically.

Deathstrike in its original form was a buggy mess. It failed more than it worked.

[Shao.7236]

4 minutes ago, Ausar.9542 said:

Deathstrike in its original form was a buggy mess. It failed more than it worked.

When it worked it still didn't do jack. The newer one is way better but Shackling Waves without Duelist Preparation is definitely a bad change that locked Revenant into Staff.

[RabbitUp.8294]

1 hour ago, Elric.4713 said:

From the press brief:

Revenant – Vindicator

They once stood together to conquer Shiro Tagachi at the Harvest Temple. Revenants of Tyria can now reach through the Mists and channel the power of Archemorous and Saint Viktor zu Heltzer—the great Heroes of Cantha. With the power of an ocean wave, Archemorous brings his Luxon prowess to the battlefield with unmatched might, while Viktor harnesses the elegance of his Kurzick blood to aid your allies. The Legendary Alliance is eager to stand with you in battle, and even more eager to see the shores of Cantha once again.
 

The vindicator swings into the battle like a wrecking ball, expending endurance and energy to cleave down swathes of enemies and bolster allies.
 

First off, the baseline changes for this specialization: vindicators have had their dodge ability modified so that it can only be used at maximum endurance, but in turn it allows them free movement while it's active and triggers a powerful effect when it ends. This ability can be modified via grandmaster traits to inflict further devastation on enemies or provide support for allies. Additionally, the baseline profession skill True Nature has been replaced with Energy Meld and will allow you to trade energy for endurance.
 

Greatsword is unlocked for use with the revenant’s vindicator specialization, closing gaps, holding ground, and wreaking havoc on multiple foes. Gathering and unleashing the Mists from the blade, this specialization focuses on being in the face of multiple foes and creating dangerous situations that are difficult for them to avoid.
 

Lastly, the vindicator will unlock the champions of the Luxon and Kurzick as the dual-natured Legendary Alliance. This legend's abilities function as an ebb and flow, with the abilities of the Luxon Archemorus incentivizing selfish and aggressive behavior and the Kurzick Saint Viktor encouraging defensive and supportive behavior. Each of these abilities flip to their opposing ability upon use, putting the slot on cooldown and creating a back-and-forth style of play. In order to open up more gameplay possibilities when using this stance, Energy Meld will change to Alliance Tactics and immediately flip all current alliance skills to their counterparts.

This sounds great actually, finally some actual changes to revenant instead of just a new legend.

But I'm confused about Energy Meld. Do you only get Energy Meld on other legends and it switches to Alliance Tactics when you channel A+V? 

Bit weird to introduce a profession mechanic that ties in with the new mega dodge, then have that mechanic taken away when you are actually channeling the spec's legend.

Edited September 16, 2021 by RabbitUp.8294

[RabbitUp.8294]

58 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Also recycling animations with different intend is nothing new. Because of how similar it looks to the healing effect, I won't be convinced until I see it.

The problem is not recycling animations, it's that weapons in general are taken away when you perform utility animations because they are not rigged for it. Like, how would you hold mace/axe to perform the animation shown in the trailer?

If it was a utility/heal skill, it would use either Guardian's Shelter animation, or the Daredevil animation from their own block utility.

[Shao.7236]

43 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

The problem is not recycling animations, it's that weapons in general are taken away when you perform utility animations because they are not rigged for it. Like, how would you hold mace/axe to perform the animation shown in the trailer?

If it was a utility/heal skill, it would use either Guardian's Shelter animation, or the Daredevil animation from their own block utility.

It's easy to reuse the parry animation that Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer uses as a "block".  Could have picked on Hammer or Staff instead, those could emerge with new animations that are also possibly used later with one of the mediums. Perhaps would Elementalist Hammer get one? Who knows. For all we knew it could be a unique skill based on weapons, from what it looks like anyway since we are likely losing on Legend Swap in favor of something similar to facets skill flip except the skills are actually the legends themselves.

 

Anyway, with only one evade, having a block on a damage weapon that is locked behind an elite changes the argument altogether.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Shao.7236

[otto.5684]

Thematically, it seems awfully redundant. Rev is already heavy melee combatant. Sure, it will probably lead the power damage in pve. At least it is not WB situation, where it literally changes nothing about how the class is played in pve.

[RabbitUp.8294]

Superior Sigil of Stamina - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

With the buffs to on-kill effect, this seems like it will be the best way to play Vindicator in pve.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Glad to see that legend swap is staying if the press release thing is correct. And honestly it makes the spec sound much more interesting to me. The legendary duo sound like a bit more of an active take on Glint's facets  I actually really like the Daredevil-esque GM trait structure we may be receiving and the fact that there may be some support potential built in makes me excited. Definitely have some more hype for the breakdown tomorrow now that we know a bit more about it. The dodge mechanic does sound a bit concerning, so we shall see how it is implemented.

[Brynioch.1873]

7 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

This sounds great actually, finally some actual changes to revenant instead of just a new legend.

But I'm confused about Energy Meld. Do you only get Energy Meld on other legends and it switches to Alliance Tactics when you channel A+V? 

Bit weird to introduce a profession mechanic that ties in with the new mega dodge, then have that mechanic taken away when you are actually channeling the spec's legend.

 

Maybe you get both then you channel the alliance. Or the skill does both, but that would be rather clunky.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Miellyn.6847

[GrayHawk.7560]

9 hours ago, Elric.4713 said:

From the press brief:

Revenant – Vindicator

They once stood together to conquer Shiro Tagachi at the Harvest Temple. Revenants of Tyria can now reach through the Mists and channel the power of Archemorous and Saint Viktor zu Heltzer—the great Heroes of Cantha. With the power of an ocean wave, Archemorous brings his Luxon prowess to the battlefield with unmatched might, while Viktor harnesses the elegance of his Kurzick blood to aid your allies. The Legendary Alliance is eager to stand with you in battle, and even more eager to see the shores of Cantha once again.
 

The vindicator swings into the battle like a wrecking ball, expending endurance and energy to cleave down swathes of enemies and bolster allies.
 

First off, the baseline changes for this specialization: vindicators have had their dodge ability modified so that it can only be used at maximum endurance, but in turn it allows them free movement while it's active and triggers a powerful effect when it ends. This ability can be modified via grandmaster traits to inflict further devastation on enemies or provide support for allies. Additionally, the baseline profession skill True Nature has been replaced with Energy Meld and will allow you to trade energy for endurance.
 

Greatsword is unlocked for use with the revenant’s vindicator specialization, closing gaps, holding ground, and wreaking havoc on multiple foes. Gathering and unleashing the Mists from the blade, this specialization focuses on being in the face of multiple foes and creating dangerous situations that are difficult for them to avoid.
 

Lastly, the vindicator will unlock the champions of the Luxon and Kurzick as the dual-natured Legendary Alliance. This legend's abilities function as an ebb and flow, with the abilities of the Luxon Archemorus incentivizing selfish and aggressive behavior and the Kurzick Saint Viktor encouraging defensive and supportive behavior. Each of these abilities flip to their opposing ability upon use, putting the slot on cooldown and creating a back-and-forth style of play. In order to open up more gameplay possibilities when using this stance, Energy Meld will change to Alliance Tactics and immediately flip all current alliance skills to their counterparts.

Been looking for this, thank you!

 

Seems I was right with the stance dance to a degree.  Bit worried about that dodge will have to see it.  All around I'm still remaining positive, it sounds very very interesting (in my opinion)

Also on the face of it seems to be giving a lot of what those of us in the pro GS camp were wanting cleave power damage.

 

Sorry, keep editing to add from excitement.  The trailer is much clearer now, you can see some of the flip over in action (looks like the AoE storm to the block and the backward evade that gives resistance to the Dragoon dive)

Edited September 17, 2021 by GrayHawk.7560

[Uete.3805]

uuuUUUUUuuuuh! That info has raised my hopes for this spec. Thank you so much!

The dual legend sounds very very cool, specially as it seemed to have several movement tools from the trailer (unless those were the new dodge effects?) I'm hyped again people!

[RabbitUp.8294]

Quote

First off, the baseline changes for this specialization: vindicators have had their dodge ability modified so that it can only be used at maximum endurance, but in turn it allows them free movement while it's active and triggers a powerful effect when it ends. 

It really seems like the skydive at the end is the new dodge, it's the only one shown that "allows free movement", all others were linear dashes/dodges from A to B.

Also, knowing the context of the press release, I think we can identify a legend skill. At 0:17, he dashes and puches the ground in a cone with an orange effect (orange=Archemorus). He doesn't hold a GS in that animation, so it's not a weapon skill. Then at 0:32 he does a blue cone attack (blue=Viktor) and dodges backward, so the exact opposite of the above, so this looks to be the flip skill.

Edited September 17, 2021 by RabbitUp.8294

[zealex.9410]

WTF ANET??? I didnt take a break from ff14 only to come here and be drg luled at 😠