The amount of time it takes you to acquire the latest weekly diamond chest is downright INSULTING.

[ArchonWing.9480]

It may be braindead, but rewards should still be normalized across the game to reward similar braindead activity.

Also, it's not just about the Legendary Armor. As someone with 7600 (useless) tickets after 3 sets of Legendary Armor and cycled Diamond twice this week, I can still say the rewards system is objectively crap compared to the rest of the game. It's also a fact that I never had to deal with low rank pip gain.  You can 1111 open world events or t1 fractals for more rewards. 

That just has little to do with merely wanting stuff, but just of the principle of the matter that players across different game modes should be treated equally. I mean, I don't need anything at this point. It's just the principle of the matter.

I mean, I guess the average players don't actually need to spend anything in WvW at all, but consider those people that have to do crap like provide guild siege and whatever background nonsense with the Guild Hall. I wouldn't know because I never leveled scribe and never will, but it probably required them to get donations/pve.

The rewards system is the worst of both worlds-- it doesn't reward active play and barely rewards period. And if you don't care about rewards, then why would you care if rewards were improved?

Also I don't care what anyone does, but reward need to be compressed. Nobody  likes sorting out 20 unstackable boxes.

Edited September 17, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[StrangerDanger.3496]

Seriously, if my reward is a bunch of boxes with really cool sounding names, and they look cool, and i open all of them and i get a bunch of vendor trash, mats that I don't care about (most i just destroy after capping storages) and a smattering of unidentified vendor trash (gear).....get rid of the cool name of the box, and make a frownie face box [🥵]i can stack with others so i know what my crap rewards are and they can join my massive pile of unidentified yellow gear (other colors go the the vendors unidentified)

 

I do want boxes with cross content stuff, thats fine, but call it a crafters mat box.  Stop giving me pink dust/shards/yellow egg stone thingys....its offensive to have something so common be tiered that high up.  I cant even sell the stuff its destroy when it hits 250 in my inv.

 

There should always be SOMETHING usable in WvW in the boxes.  Be it a personal food item, or a shared food item and banners (do this pls) hell id be fine crafting my own WvW food platters and banners (pls let me) using mats from those boxes so i can be somewhat functional beyond spamming 1 and pretending im being helpful to the zerg.

 

I like the skin unlocks but there are only so many, and even less that i care about and will use...so functionality would be nice in my WvW reward boxes.

 

Right now I feel like I selected "i want crafting rewards" as my primary reward track in WvW no matter what reward track i choose, and most of the rewards are just that, vendor trash and crafting mats that are even below vendor trash since they cant be vendored even. 

 

The content is fun as hell, at least to me being fresh in the game mode, the rewards are super fun to progress.  I just dislike after a few hours going to my inv, excited about all the cool looking things to click, and by the time im done my inventory looks the exact same as before WvW...with rewards.....like theres nothing in the reward tracks beyond skins and dungeon weapons....

 

Realistically, this game mode needs to be streamlined (yes i know they are doing just this) with rewards and some form of reward progression and contribution needs to be in place to give value to any box given.  Be it some form of contribution you can donate to the alliance you get from the box, to stuff to aid the battle or team you are with.  While food/Banners are the obvious items that could add value, these are boring in itself.  Another option would be for siege equipment to come from boxes, however I like that the plans are cheap and then restricted by the supply system and that would ruin it and make them more rare and then also resource restricted.  So something new needs to be implemented to allow WvW boxes to contain more WvW specific rewards that actually feel good to get....since you know...gear doesnt matter in this game.

Edited September 17, 2021 by StrangerDanger.3496

[Sylvyn.4750]

7 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

So you choose to PvE because its faster then WvW. So in theory if you had more time, you could just do it in WvW and not "have" to PvE? 

One could say, it just takes time? I don't think you understand what you are replying to. 

There is a disconnect between gathering materials and gathering tickets and memories...some people earn each at different rates.  In my case, I can earn enough tickets and memories in 4 weeks to purchase one piece of legendary armor and the ascended armor unlock, but it will take me approximately 8 weeks to gather the materials and gold in WvW alone as the value of the materials needed for one piece is currently around 400g, unless I go farm in PvE to speed things up.  Do you think 8 weeks time for one legendary armor piece is reasonable?  That's 144 weeks for a full set of each armor type, which is just short of 3 years time.  Any other game mode would be much faster than WvW.

Saying "it just takes time" applies to anything...the sun will eventually explode but it just takes time...but do you still want to be playing WvW up to that point trying to finish your legendaries?  There is a reasonable limit on how much time people are willing to spend, and if you don't particularly care if that drives people away from WvW, then enjoy a dying game mode.  Wasn't it bad enough that we've already had to cut the number of battle tiers in half and link servers...wasn't that a sign things aren't well in WvW?  If I knew up front how much time it would take in WvW, I probably would have chosen the PvE route and skipped WvW entirely...but as it is I'm already committed, possibly to the funny farm.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

12 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I have a full set of Legenday Heavy WvW armor, Twilight, 2 Frostfangs, The Predator, 6 Legendary runes, 4 legendary sigils, Vision, Aurora, Ad Infinitum, and 2 Confluxes. Almost done with the 4th collection for HOPE, after which it becomes a Gold gate.

 

Since a lot of those require mystic tributes, that's a lot of coin grinding or credit card swiping.  I stand by the fact that clovers and coins are far more timegated / resource intensive to get than skirmish tickets ever will be.

 

10 hours ago, gebrechen.5643 said:

 

Braindead simple? You mean 800+ hours of grinding is a simple task? Most of us players had time to chase that goal and made 20+ levels per week because we play for 9 years, we had 3 wvw seasons where many of us played 6 hours+ per day and long weekends and there where people that karma-trained EotM and made hundreds of ranks.

That's stupid to say "wvw is braindead simple". A new player will almost never have the time to get there with the current system. GW2 won't exist anymore until most of them are there.

 

If you go all out, the tickets are: 22 weeks @ 365 tickets per week for a set of legendary armor.  Even if it took 20 hrs per week that's not 800+ hours of grinding.  Play 7-8 months of regular WvW and it will come easy.  

 

Anyway, I call it 'braindead' because it literally requires capturing the nearest camp and afk'ing as a minimum baseline.  If someone actually wants to play the mode, people are happy to meta farm but somehow can't seem to find or follow a commander long enough to do essentially the same thing in WvW? 

 

Something like raiding takes composition, knowing the raid, and some skill.  WvW on the other hand just requires a tagging skill and being another number in the blob.  So unless they make skirmish tickets require more player skill I don't see why they should lower the timegate for them.  

[Sarrs.4831]

I'd love it if finishing a Skirmish would give you a lump sum of pips/reward track progress, probably based on how much you've contributed to the Skirmish and maybe with a bit of a bonus if your team won the Skirmish.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Sarrs.4831

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, Sarrs.4831 said:

I'd love it if finishing a Skirmish would give you a lump sum of pips/reward track progress, probably based on how much you've contributed to the Skirmish and maybe with a bit of a bonus if your team won the Skirmish.

 

How do you determine "how much you contributed"? And why reward players for bandwagoning?

[Dawdler.8521]

25 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

 

How do you determine "how much you contributed"? And why reward players for bandwagoning?

Finishing a skirmish isnt bandwagoning and it would be trivial to judge it based on participation for the duration of the skirmish however if people complain about how you are "forced" to play 20h a week then how is being "forced" to play 2h straight every time you log on any better?

[Zyreva.1078]

1 minute ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Finishing a skirmish isnt bandwagoning and it would be trivial to judge it based on participation for the duration of the skirmish however if people complain about how you are "forced" to play 20h a week then how is being "forced" to play 2h straight every time you log on any better?

 A bonus for winning would make players want to win as many skirmishes as possible and what's the best way to ensure that's going to happen? Stack everyone on the "top" server.

And participation =/= contribution. Unless you you want to tell me those afk/flip a camp every 10 min pip farmers contribute as much as someone actively playing the entire time.

(There is a good reason why even in a much more limited and structured enviroment such as sPvP personal contribution is not taken into consideration for rating purposes - it is simply impossible to determine based on a few more or less arbitrary numbers).

[Sarrs.4831]

49 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

 

How do you determine "how much you contributed"? And why reward players for bandwagoning?

Check how many ticks the player was active for, objective count for the period, number of kills, etc.

People should get rewards for winning because winning is good. The entire point of the Alliances system is to create a more level playing field in which winning can be rewarded.

[Zyreva.1078]

36 minutes ago, Sarrs.4831 said:

Check how many ticks the player was active for, objective count for the period, number of kills, etc.

This heavily favours zergs - which btw already get by far the most rewards - even if the "per player contribution" can be much lower than that of a solo player.

Quote

People should get rewards for winning because winning is good. The entire point of the Alliances system is to create a more level playing field in which winning can be rewarded.

WvW is by design not a fair (in terms of "skill based") and competitive enviroment. Alliances alone aren't going to change that and any furher changes to make the game mode more competitive (we are looking at massive restrictions to the freedom and open world feeling as well as changes to core mechanics here) would destroy what many players enjoy about the game mode and essentially turn it into something completely different.

Edited September 18, 2021 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Sarrs.4831]

1 hour ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

This heavily favours zergs - which btw already get by far the most rewards - even if the "per player contribution" can be much lower than that of a solo player.

I don't really have a problem with that, I just want it to check to make sure that people aren't AFK.

Also honestly seeing as WvW is bottom-tier reward rate anyway I'm not gonna be particularly cut up if zerglings get plenty of rewards.

1 hour ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

WvW is by design not a fair (in terms of "skill based") and competitive enviroment. Alliances alone aren't going to change that and any furher changes to make the game mode more competitive (we are looking at massive restrictions to the freedom and open world feeling as well as changes to core mechanics here) would destroy what many players enjoy about the game mode and essentially turn it into something completely different.

No we're not looking at massive restrictions to freedom and open world feeling, nor changes to core mechanics. I'd be looking at giving you 40 pips if you win the skirmish, 35 if you come second, 30 if you come third, multiplied by percentage of active ticks. Honestly small change unless you're Bronze or less.

[Zyreva.1078]

24 minutes ago, Sarrs.4831 said:

I don't really have a problem with that, I just want it to check to make sure that people aren't AFK.

What does it matter if players afk at spawn or run in circles karma training (brain afk)?

24 minutes ago, Sarrs.4831 said:

Also honestly seeing as WvW is bottom-tier reward rate anyway I'm not gonna be particularly cut up if zerglings get plenty of rewards.

No we're not looking at massive restrictions to freedom and open world feeling, nor changes to core mechanics. I'd be looking at giving you 40 pips if you win the skirmish, 35 if you come second, 30 if you come third, multiplied by percentage of active ticks. Honestly small change unless you're Bronze or less.

In addition or instead of current pip system? If the former, it is ultimatively all about giving impatient players quicker access to their  legendaries. If the latter, it just screws over certain playstyles. Neither is going to be beneficial for the game mode itself.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Since a lot of those require mystic tributes, that's a lot of coin grinding or credit card swiping.  I stand by the fact that clovers and coins are far more timegated / resource intensive to get than skirmish tickets ever will be.

 

I got an unlimited bank access from a BLC. Sold it for 5k. Used that 5k and the mats in my bank and what I earned over 3 months to make the runes, sigils, frostfangs, and predator. That said just playing the WvW and doing Ley-Line will give you  74 coins a month, and WvW tracks if you try hard them can net you +24 clovers a month, and then there are the 7 from login rewards. Two months of  gameplay can give you all the clovers you need for a Gen1, if you tryhard  the reward tracks that is.

 

[Kondor.2904]

The only thing that is wrong with ticket acquisition is reliance on "outnumbered" to speed up your progress. Outnumbered should be replaced by something else that requires and rewards active gameplay.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I got an unlimited bank access from a BLC. Sold it for 5k. Used that 5k and the mats in my bank and what I earned over 3 months to make the runes, sigils, frostfangs, and predator. That said just playing the WvW and doing Ley-Line will give you  74 coins a month, and WvW tracks if you try hard them can net you +24 clovers a month, and then there are the 7 from login rewards. Two months of  gameplay can give you all the clovers you need for a Gen1, if you tryhard  the reward tracks that is.

 

 

True, but Gen 1 you can just buy off the TP anyway.  So if someone finds themselves lucky like you were they can practically buy most gen 1's for 5k without having to grind anything.

 

74 coins a month isn't enough for a third of one mystic tribute...you'd need a little over three months at 74 coins of month for just the coins.  You can tryhard the clovers but still need 77 of them so you are probably going to be forge gambling anyway to finish that out.

 

Basically 1/2 of the mystic tribute is going to take three months of grinding, and then you need the other half which are the gifts that take hundred gold or so if you don't have a bunch of mats / ectos built up for mat promotion.  You'd have to grind for that gold by selling all the excess mats you don't need.  

 

All that is in comparison to the skirmish tickets which you get by being minimally active, with no gold investment or time investment (as time spent is also time earned towards mats through reward tracks, etc.).  

 

So yeah, you may need a lot of skirmish tickets but you don't need to do it in any specific timeframe and certainly don't need diamond box when the good rewards drop off after gold.    

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

43 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

True, but Gen 1 you can just buy off the TP anyway.  So if someone finds themselves lucky like you were they can practically buy most gen 1's for 5k without having to grind anything.

Cheaper to make them and I had most of the mats anyway.

43 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

74 coins a month isn't enough for a third of one mystic tribute...you'd need a little over three months at 74 coins of month for just the coins.  You can tryhard the clovers but still need 77 of them so you are probably going to be forge gambling anyway to finish that out.

So? That set of legendary equipment is 3 years of work on my part.

43 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Basically 1/2 of the mystic tribute is going to take three months of grinding, and then you need the other half which are the gifts that take hundred gold or so if you don't have a bunch of mats / ectos built up for mat promotion.  You'd have to grind for that gold by selling all the excess mats you don't need.  

Indeed. Or doing RIBA occasionally. Or using laurels, or converting spirit shards into gold.

43 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

All that is in comparison to the skirmish tickets which you get by being minimally active, with no gold investment or time investment (as time spent is also time earned towards mats through reward tracks, etc.).  

Still a 22 week time gate.

43 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

So yeah, you may need a lot of skirmish tickets but you don't need to do it in any specific timeframe and certainly don't need diamond box when the good rewards drop off after gold.    

 

 

Need and want are two different things. None of us needs rewards, but we want them.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

So? That set of legendary equipment is 3 years of work on my part.

 

Need and want are two different things. None of us needs rewards, but we want them.

 

For the top one, thought you had written 3 months above; 3 years is obviously a different story, as I was comparing a 3 month time frame for coins / clovers to skirmish tickets (12 weeks or little over half of what is required at max effort).  

 

For the bottom one, I agree in a way but especially for WvW it can become more of a need due to playing multiple builds or classes.  Sure you can do WvW by the bare minimum, but if anyone actually wants to properly play the mode being flexible is nearly mandatory at times.  

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

For the top one, thought you had written 3 months above; 3 years is obviously a different story, as I was comparing a 3 month time frame for coins / clovers to skirmish tickets (12 weeks or little over half of what is required at max effort).  

 

For the bottom one, I agree in a way but especially for WvW it can become more of a need due to playing multiple builds or classes.  Sure you can do WvW by the bare minimum, but if anyone actually wants to properly play the mode being flexible is nearly mandatory at times.  

The FULL set of leggy gear was 3 years, but the frostfangs, predator, and runes were over 3 months. None of those required extra coins beyond making clovers, of which I mostly got from reward tracks (lot of one time ones that I never did). The sigils I completed right after the armory came out, again those just need clovers, and you can get a large number of those from reward tracks.

All of that was funded by selling the perma bank access. I gathered the majority of clovers from reward tracks and mystic warped bundles, which also gave me a large number of T6's that I needed. I really did make that 5k stretch over 3 leggy weapons, 4 sigils, and 6 runes. Got 500g left from it, though I have almost enough mats to straight up make a Foefire's Power, which will help fund the Mystic Tribute for HOPE once I finish the Dragon Stand portion of the final collection.

Aside: Check you dungeon token totals occasionally folks. You may have enough to craft some items with good ROI on the TP.