Do you believe the devs are so disconnected with ele community to make ANOTHER melee spec?

[SunTzu.4513]

Overall i wouldn't mind getting a Hammer if ANet would have a better record on implementing/improving/balancing this weapon at all from my point of view. Judging on my experience with rev/warrior/guardian and scrapper the weapon always felt clunky to me. Scrapper is the only spec where i ever would use it at and that's just because there is no other vaible close range weapon for it. Having a class with 11k base health swinging a potential slow/clunky weapon seems not that exciting to me.

Edited September 16, 2021 by SunTzu.4513

[Zeph.5927]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you don't know that. You in fact have NO idea how many people did or didn't want another melee spec. 

Oh come off of it already. Acting like people don’t want their mage class to be able to play like a mage for a change is some of the most arrogant and idiotic kitten I’ve seen in a while.

[Zeph.5927]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Anet has done nothing of the sort ... the idea Ele was a 'magic-caster' class doesn't make sense, because Anet never implemented as a traditional mage/spell casting class to begin with. Again, that's not how Anet has defined the ele class, so anyone expecting it or using that as a basis to complain ... is wrong. 

Your attempts at trying to make the “mage” class not a “mage” is extremely laughable to say the least.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

Oh come off of it already. Acting like people don’t want their mage class to be able to play like a mage for a change is some of the most arrogant and idiotic kitten I’ve seen in a while.

Yup ... clearly it's hard for you to accept being wrong but it doesn't change what I said. Ele is defined by Anet ... and it's NEVER played like a 'wizard' class with spells flying everywhere. I guess it's taken some people 9 years to come to terms with that. Anet never defined this as a 'mage' class and they don't need to follow the typical rules for it either. That's just you imposing your ideas on what the game should be. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 minutes ago, SunTzu.4513 said:

Overall i wouldn't mind getting a Hammer if ANet would have a better record on implementing/improving/balancing this weapon at all from my point of view. Judging on my experience with rev/warrior/guardian and scrapper the weapon always felt clunky to me. Scrapper is the only spec where i ever would use it at and that's just because there is no other vaible close range weapon for it. Having a class with 11k base health swinging a potential slow/clunky weapon seems not that exciting to me.

 

I share these concerns.  Hammer is often a slow weapon with a lot of CC.  What will protect the catalyst and make it a "steady" presence?  Stability, damage reduction?

 

I admit I was also holding out hope it might be longbow.  But I am satisfied with a twohanded weapon and will wait and see.

[Exzen.2976]

I feel very meh about this spec from the teaser. I'm hoping it will have interesting mechanics that were not in the teaser, but looks very much like Scapper 2.0 

 

I will reserve my full judgement for the livestream as there were some really cool things in the last one.

[Zeph.5927]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

We, players, are in charge if this game will exist or not, that's a fact.
We also through our feedback decide which content is appealing and which isn't thus making directions for future creations.
No game will exist without playerbase and if A-net will keep going with their "hey it looks fancy with it" over and over again against will of players then it'll shut down swiftly.
Me and many others didn't wish for another boring melee e-espec as we're the squishest in the game and that's a fact as well. It doesn't mean everyone, but it doesn't also mean "just me".

I wouldn’t bother with him. The dude is obviously smoking something. Either that or he’s just purposely being facetious to get a rise out of people.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

3 minutes ago, SunTzu.4513 said:

Overall i wouldn't mind getting a Hammer if ANet would have a better record on implementing/improving/balancing this weapon at all from my point of view. Judging on my experience with rev/warrior/guardian and scrapper the weapon always felt clunky to me. Scrapper is the only spec where i ever would use it at and that's just because there is no other vaible close range weapon for it. Having a class with 11k base health swinging a potential slow/clunky weapon seems not that exciting to me.

 

 

Plus weaver already has barriers with more or less efficiency, tempest has protection; what will be our main sustain to stay alive at melee on the new spec ?

I didn't see blocks in the video, the "attunement mechanic" seems to be arround weird projectils/damage with "auras/legends" ... so what ?

[Dadnir.5038]

I believe that we don't know enough about what the catalyst will do to have a proper understanding of whether it's "melee" or "range". Hammer may be a melee weapon but it doesn't mean that the e-spec itself won't fare well at range.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I wouldn’t bother with him. The dude is obviously smoking something. Either that or he’s just purposely being facetious to get a rise out of people.

There isn't anything being smoked. There are lots of people here that think they speak for everyone and think they are the arbiter for how the game should be designed ... they are neither. 

Players that use self-derived expectations will be disappointed. I mean, what happened to actually trying the spec before judging it? The idea we are in a position to judge it at this point is ridiculous. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Zeph.5927]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup ... clearly it's hard for you to accept being wrong but it doesn't change what I said. Ele is defined by Anet ... and it's NEVER played like a 'wizard' class with spells flying everywhere. I guess it's taken some people 9 years to come to terms with that. Anet never defined this as a 'mage' class and they don't need to follow the typical rules for it either. That's just you imposing your ideas on what the game should be. 

I don’t think I have ever seen such an arrogant and WRONG take on something. But yet here we are.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I don’t think I have ever seen such an arrogant and WRONG take on something. But yet here we are.

Well it's not wrong. I mean, you DON'T think Anet decides how to define Ele? I'm 100% sure they do. There isn't anything arrogant about recognizing the truth about how this game is designed. You're just acting out because I'm right. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sigmoid.7082]

10 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I don’t think I have ever seen such an arrogant and WRONG take on something. But yet here we are.

To be fair its also quite arrogant to say the designers of the game are designing their own game wrong because of some preconceived notion you have on how they should be designing it...

 

We get it, you're upset because its not what you wanted but to say they are trying to make something not something is wrong when they decide, from the ground up as its their game, exactly what they want something to be.

 

Its fair to say "I wanted X and I'm upset i didn't get it", but not do much "I wanted X and Anet are designing their game wrong for not giving me what I wanted"

Edited September 16, 2021 by Sigmoid.7082

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

There isn't anything being smoked. There are lots of people here that think they speak for everyone and think they are the arbiter or how the game should be designed ... they are neither. 

 

 

Because you are nitpicking, a killjoy; you take things litteraly and always against the flow, the personn rather than bringing nuances or  rectification if really you wanted pedagogyand reason. Ultimately you never involve yourself in fact, doing argos logos according to the great plan of the divine Anet.

[Zeph.5927]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well it's not wrong. I mean, you DON'T think Anet decides how to define Ele? I'm 100% sure they do. There isn't anything arrogant about recognizing the truth about how this game is designed. That's just absurd. 

It’s funny considering even the official GW2 website classifies them as stereotypical spellcasters who call down the elements from afar. It even states that they specifically lack toughness (not something normally associated with melee combat). And most of their images are of them wielding staves and casting ranged spells. But let’s continue on with this terrible notion that elementalists were never meant to be a mage style class from the beginning.

Get real dude. Just because Anet has decided to pursue this terrible idea of turning a mage class into a dedicated melee role doesn’t mean it’s something we should be praising or blinding following.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Because you are nitpicking, a killjoy;

There isn't any nitpicking here ... people are prematurely judging the class based on their individual expectations that Anet will never be able to meet and making ridiculous arguments about how they think things should work to say why Anet is wrong. I don't involve myself in fact? I'm pretty sure it's a fact that Anet decided how Ele works, not players. 

Right .. and I'M the killjoy? because I'm not participating on the side of the communal rant? Ah OK. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

Oh come off of it already. Acting like people don’t want their mage class to be able to play like a mage for a change is some of the most arrogant and idiotic kitten I’ve seen in a while.

 

It's not just a "mage class" and it already has the three most mage-appropriate weapons in staff, scepter and focus.  Torch is the only other potentially magic-based weapon left and it's an offhand.  I know you want mage gameplay, but the class already has it.  What they need to do is update staff.

 

I somewhat share your disappointment that this is a hammer-based melee spec.  I was hoping for a ranged spec, probably longbow.  Still, I much prefer a twohanded weapon over an offhand.  That gives us a totally unique kit to play with.

[EpicName.4523]

12 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup ... clearly it's hard for you to accept being wrong but it doesn't change what I said. Ele is defined by Anet ... and it's NEVER played like a 'wizard' class with spells flying everywhere. I guess it's taken some people 9 years to come to terms with that. Anet never defined this as a 'mage' class and they don't need to follow the typical rules for it either. That's just you imposing your ideas on what the game should be. 

 

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well it's not wrong. I mean, you DON'T think Anet decides how to define Ele? I'm 100% sure they do. There isn't anything arrogant about recognizing the truth about how this game is designed. You're just acting out because I'm right. 

 

From GW2 wiki. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist

Elementalists are multifaceted spellcasters who channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage.

 

So what is an elementalist? A spellcaster that lacks in physical toughness and does massive damage. 

 

Here is definition of spellcaster: Spellcaster, a person who casts a spell (incantation) Spellcaster, a magician, that is, a practitioner of magic as portrayed in works of fiction. Spellcaster, in gaming, a witch or mage with the ability to cast spells.

 

Source: https://www.google.com/search?q=spellcaster+meaning&oq=spellcaster+meaning&aqs=chrome..69i57.9252j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Sounds like a mage to me. Not melee. Not someone who goes balls deep due to his frailty. Your argument is moot. Nothing more to be said.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Zeph.5927 said:

But let’s continue on with this terrible notion that elementalists were never meant to be a mage style class from the beginning.

Listen, I'm right ... Anet defines the class ... and I've yet to see them ever pull out the rulebook and point out how they meet these typical 'mage' expectations. I get that ruffles your feathers, but it shouldn't.

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking each other.

Regards.

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, EpicName.4523 said:

Sounds like a mage to me. Not melee. Not someone who goes balls deep due to his frailty. Your argument is moot. Nothing more to be said.

Well, then you need to expand your idea of what 'mage' means in GW2 then ... because Anet defines that by how the game works ... and I doubt they restrict their design by what Wiki says either. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

38 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

You’re definitely in the minority then. Most people play mage-like classes for mage-like gameplay. Stop acting like your unusual taste is anything remotely close to the norm.

the proffessions been melee orinttated for the vast majority of its existance and u beleive people are rolling the proffession for its Ranged ability... interesting idea lol..

sure in the same bubble people are rolling warriors to be Iconic Tanks.

Im sorry but its distinctly not true.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[fuzzyp.6295]

2 minutes ago, EpicName.4523 said:

 

 

From GW2 wiki. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist

Elementalists are multifaceted spellcasters who channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage.

 

So what is an elementalist? A spellcaster that lacks in physical toughness and does massive damage. 

 

Here is definition of spellcaster: Spellcaster, a person who casts a spell (incantation) Spellcaster, a magician, that is, a practitioner of magic as portrayed in works of fiction. Spellcaster, in gaming, a witch or mage with the ability to cast spells.

 

Source: https://www.google.com/search?q=spellcaster+meaning&oq=spellcaster+meaning&aqs=chrome..69i57.9252j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Sounds like a mage to me. Not melee. Not someone who goes balls deep due to his frailty. Your argument is moot. Nothing more to be said.

And yet despite their said fragility, Dagger, a melee-oriented weapon was a weapon for the Elementalist at launch.

To argue that Elementalist is purely a ranged spellcaster is just as ridiculous as arguing that Ranger should only use Bows. Spellcasters does not mean just staying back and casting fireballs...

[ASP.8093]

4 hours ago, Vissarion.6509 said:

Not trying to be harsh to anyone here, just giving melee hammer after the disaster weaver(sword) was, I don't know, it doesn't look good right now.

Most ele mains like to play in ranged and feel "wizardy" that's the reason we play mage. If we wanted to be in the face of enemies we would play warrior or guardian.

After seeing "Catalyst" I feel like nothing from all the things we talked/asked about in the past years and all the speculations and everything was not heard AT ALL, they just went on and made a weaver 2.0.

Of course I will reserve judgment for tomorrow's livestream and hands on beta next week. 

Anyone else feel the same?

PS: Devs at least do as a favor and BUFF staff.

This game doesn't have a frontline/backline sepration.

A weapon isn't the only basis for a spec. Many viable builds don't use their espec's specific new weapon.

Weaver wasn't just a melee spec, it added new dual attacks to every weapon (which is why you see it used often in builds like Scepter/Focus Fresh Air).

If Catalyst is about using pulsing area effects for battlefield presence, it needs some support for a toe-to-toe stand-your-ground playstyle or you're just gonna get pushed out of your own wells constantly. And the core ele weapons don't really have that; the best you can do is go Dagger/Something and bounce around a bunch. Doesn't mean the whole spec is necessarily going to be enforced melee.

Edited September 16, 2021 by ASP.8093

[draxynnic.3719]

ArenaNet never conceptualised elementalist as a traditional caster?

 

What about the original prerelease skill showcases, which mostly focused on traditional lightning-from-fingertips-and-fireballs-from-the-sky skills like Meteor Shower, Static Field, and Phoenix. Or, heck, what about the entirety of GW1? You don't think people can't have an expectation that the profession will at least resemble the predecessor?

 

Now, options to break out of that mould are good. People aren't complaining about the existence of melee specs - people are complaining about apparently* having three in a row while the classic archetype falls further and further behind (helped along by a few stiff nerfs). Options are good, but it's getting to the point where if you don't want to play melee, you're almost better off playing Warrior than Elementalist. There's a point at which putting so much focus into different melee incarnations while the archetypical form only receives scraps is just putting the cart before the horse. There's already tempest and weaver to cater for meleementalists. Throw a bone to the other side already.

 

*There are indications that the hammer might not be as melee focused as the teaser implies, but if so that's just bad marketing.

Edited September 16, 2021 by draxynnic.3719