Did these people play the same spec as we did?

[Salt Mode.3780]

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

a Large problem with GW2 regardless of the mode. the top critics are effectively angry about patch Lengths, time between balancing notes, and New Content, so they should develope the game in a Fashion that gives them more budget and tiem to invest in fixs these Problems.

This is where id say FFXIV beats out all the rest of the MMO in terms of patch consistency as well as how huge the updates are that covers ALL platforms. Very clear and transparent, and I doubt they have WAY more people working then ANET. 

[Puck.3697]

57 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

This is where id say FFXIV beats out all the rest of the MMO in terms of patch consistency as well as how huge the updates are that covers ALL platforms. Very clear and transparent, and I doubt they have WAY more people working then ANET. 

Think alot of people get this wrong. 

FFXIV developers have admitted to hospitalising themselves from exhaustion from amounts of hours spent developing FFXIV in large patch's and expansions. 

They tend work 24hour and sleep very few hours.. Japanese work ethic is very different to the western world. 

The sound guy developed the entirity of the sound do shadowbringers and endwalker while having C*ncer 

And since lay offs they do actually have quite alot more staff realistically. Prior that likely not so much. But ffxivs budget is far higher then what Anet have. 

Anet arnet held back by man hours, they're held back by budget restriction. The game relies on NCSoft authorization. While square enix don't. 

Being chained to another company like Anet is to NCSoft will hinder everything they do.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

37 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Being chained to another company like Anet is to NCSoft will hinder everything they do.

If ANet weren't chained to NCsoft this game would have already died. 

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

If ANet weren't chained to NCsoft this game would have already died. 

Very true. I'm not saying gw2 had a choice. But I'm saying it's a problem the games gonna face. 

It's same with blizzard and Activision. WoW would of died if not for the merge, however the game has taken a level of problems because of it. 

While it was their only option it's never the best option to have to take 

 

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Just now, Daddy.8125 said:

Very true. I'm not saying gw2 had a choice. But I'm saying it's a problem the games gonna face. 

It's same with blizzard and Activision. WoW would of died if not for the merge, however the game has taken a level of problems because of it. 

While it was their only option it's never the best option to have to take 

 

 

Was talking specifically about ANet ignoring gw2 while developing another game before NCsoft stepped in and demand focus on gw2, at the time of the massive layout. 

NCsoft can be dicks but they made the right call, wouldn't be surprised that the lack of money for development came from that fiasco, so ANets fault. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

50 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Think alot of people get this wrong. 

FFXIV developers have admitted to hospitalising themselves from exhaustion from amounts of hours spent developing FFXIV in large patch's and expansions. 

They tend work 24hour and sleep very few hours.. Japanese work ethic is very different to the western world. 

The sound guy developed the entirity of the sound do shadowbringers and endwalker while having C*ncer 

And since lay offs they do actually have quite alot more staff realistically. Prior that likely not so much. But ffxivs budget is far higher then what Anet have. 

Anet arnet held back by man hours, they're held back by budget restriction. The game relies on NCSoft authorization. While square enix don't. 

Being chained to another company like Anet is to NCSoft will hinder everything they do.

I don't disagree with this claim however the patch notes that do come out within the months span in-between is extremely lackluster and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Not asking for FFXIV style updates just quality updates that doesn't just focus on releasing new cosmetic or bug fixes that then later on patch into another bug fix.

As well as don't continuously promise players with more frequent updates when they know they cannot deliver regardless of circumstances. If they are busy working on EoD then tell players that they are focused on EoD and cannot make as much updates. Being left in the dark for months long end pre-e-spec release was annoying. The lack of communication is the biggest problem, perhaps its time to find a new PR.

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I don't disagree with this claim however the patch notes that do come out within the months span in-between is extremely lackluster and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Not asking for FFXIV style updates just quality updates that doesn't just focus on releasing new cosmetic or bug fixes that then later on patch into another bug fix.

As well as don't continuously promise players with more frequent updates when they know they cannot deliver regardless of circumstances. If they are busy working on EoD then tell players that they are focused on EoD and cannot make as much updates. Being left in the dark for months long end pre-e-spec release was annoying. The lack of communication is the biggest problem, perhaps its time to find a new PR.

Guild wars 2 ruins themselves because of their inability to stick to a content format to begin with tbh 

They re invent PvE so regularly that they're extending work loads because their having to recreate everything from scratch. 

So it's eating a ton of the budget where WoW and FFXIV reuse things and use difficulty scales and stuff to extend the content. Something Anet need to learn to Do. 

If they just ran a normally dungeon (5 man) with difficulty modifiers then raids (10 man) with difficulty modifiers theyd be able to reuse more textures etc etc and churn content out faster. 

Instead every patch has to relaunch with a new name for things. 

[Zenith.7301]

It's not even the content cadence, but the reward scheme.

 

Ask yourself why anyone would continue to raid after legendary armor when the effort is so far out of proportion to the garbage rewards. In 1 hours of open world braindead activity you'll outfarm dedicated raiders by magnitudes.

 

The call of the mists buff to gold earned should be the baseline gold earnings per boss, and challenge motes should increase the payout even further.

 

For some reason Anet is allergic to actually making the most challenging content the most rewarding, and so there is no incentive for the player population to improve through the tiers of difficulty.

 

As a result you get a player population absolutely stagnant in its mediocrity and often completely unprepared to progress through raids because the game never asks them to get better.

[Ombras.2853]

GW2 is literally the best mmo currently. I agree about several things (especially improved rewards for raiding) but I’m pretty sure nobody here can teach devs anything.

[Obtena.7952]

6 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

For some reason Anet is allergic to actually making the most challenging content the most rewarding, and so there is no incentive for the player population to improve through the tiers of difficulty.

I'm willing to bet there are many reasons. I can think of two related to your point here. 

1. They don't assume like you do that the player population has any interest in improving  to access better rewards, considering most the player population didn't engage in the content in the first place. 

2. If Anet needs to dump riches on people to get them to play content they didn't like ... well, that content is already done for in the first place. 

As for balance patches, it's weird to see people still clinging on to the idea that the balance targets are related to how they think they should be. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

7 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

some reason Anet is allergic to actually making the most challenging content the most rewarding, and so there is no incentive for the player population to improve through the tiers of difficulty

Im ngl this mentality would have ment raiding fractals and more never existing to begin with. You can obtain the highest power level on crafting alone. 

And the reasonings very easy, the game isn't susposed to drive verticle progression but horizontal. The game was never designed with the idea of gear progression. It's designed to just do what you enjoy to do without being bound to mandatory participation for the sake of progression. 

Not everyone in the world needs a physical power increase to incentivize content. 

At the end of the day, legendary armour generally comes from the hardest parts of the game which is susposed to be the big QoL life changer. 

 

[Zenith.7301]

29 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Im ngl this mentality would have ment raiding fractals and more never existing to begin with. You can obtain the highest power level on crafting alone. 

And the reasonings very easy, the game isn't susposed to drive verticle progression but horizontal. The game was never designed with the idea of gear progression. It's designed to just do what you enjoy to do without being bound to mandatory participation for the sake of progression. 

Not everyone in the world needs a physical power increase to incentivize content. 

At the end of the day, legendary armour generally comes from the hardest parts of the game which is susposed to be the big QoL life changer. 

 

 

 

You seem to be under the impression that better gold payouts for raiding means vertical instead of horizontal progression. I don't know what kind of tortured logic you managed to device to come to that conclusion.

 

All better gold payout does is get people who do harder content their desired cosmetics and convenience items quicker.

[Puck.3697]

18 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

You seem to be under the impression that better gold payouts for raiding means vertical instead of horizontal progression. I don't know what kind of tortured logic you managed to device to come to that conclusion.

 

All better gold payout does is get people who do harder content their desired cosmetics and convenience items quicker.

tbh i assume Better rewards = Gear... If we're talking sheer gold farm, then yeah prolly wont be harmful.. although i dont think anet like giving liquid gold rewards. I'd pressume to protect their gold buying sales.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Zenith.7301]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

tbh i assume Better rewards = Gear... If we're talking sheer gold farm, then yeah prolly wont be harmful.. although i dont think anet like giving liquid gold rewards. I'd pressume to protect their gold buying sales.

 

They literally give greater liquid rewards through open world spam, why is it a problem in raiding? And if that's an issue, bosses could just drop T6 mat boxes in enough quantities to approach the gold value.

 

It's kind of crazy with how much I walk out of a braidnead Drizzlecoast in comparison to a 2 hour raid session with 3-4 wings cleared.

 

Hell, it's not just open world.

 

I do a PuG 100+99+98 CM+T4 fractal run every evening for 45min to 1 hr and end up cleaning out 20-27g a run. Baseline raid rewards suck really bad.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Ombras.2853]

If farming gold through meta map wasn’t necessary anymore, those maps wouldn’t’ be almost always full.

 

Which is their forte.

 

They have to remain the same.

 

That said, you could implement rewards in a way that raiding lets you get legendary armor easily, for example.

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

They literally give greater liquid rewards through open world spam, why is it a problem in raiding? And if that's an issue, bosses could just drop T6 mat boxes in enough quantities to approach the gold value.

 

It's kind of crazy with how much I walk out of a braidnead Drizzlecoast in comparison to a 2 hour raid session with 3-4 wings cleared.

 

Hell, it's not just open world.

 

I do a PuG 100+99+98 CM+T4 fractal run every evening for 45min to 1 hr and end up cleaning out 20-27g a run. Baseline raid rewards suck really bad.

Very true. I'm just saying what they are likely doing. But yeah seems whack if raids are the lowest form of gold income. 

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Ombras.2853 said:

If farming gold through meta map wasn’t necessary anymore, those maps wouldn’t’ be almost always full.

 

Which is their forte.

 

They have to remain the same.

 

That said, you could implement rewards in a way that raiding lets you get legendary armor easily, for example.

I was always told raiding is the easiest way to earn legendary armour tho? 

[Zenith.7301]

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I was always told raiding is the easiest way to earn legendary armour tho? 

 

 

Least time gated is what they mean. 2nd and 3rd legendary set still takes several extra months because you need extra LI for the precursor armor since you no longer get the chest off the achievement completion.

 

5 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

If farming gold through meta map wasn’t necessary anymore, those maps wouldn’t’ be almost always full.

 

Which is their forte.

 

They have to remain the same.

 

That said, you could implement rewards in a way that raiding lets you get legendary armor easily, for example.

This is not even true. People who have no interest in raiding will continue to do open world maps. Those who want to improve and engage in challenging content will be rewarded for doing the extra work.

Gold will always be more valuable than just legendary armor, anyways. Legendary armor you only obtain 3 times, and then the content becomes obsolete. Gold is of infinite value since you always need gold for everything.

Open world maps are frankly a humongous waste of resources as they are quickly abandoned the moment another map comes out with better rewards and the achievements for the map are completed. The replay value of open world maps is abysmal, and since you don't really have to invest weeks into progression for the map clear, it has a lot less shelf life than raids or challenging dungeons/fractals would.

Look at the core PoF maps, absolute ghost towns because of ill designed aggro ranges annoying players out of the areas, terrible rewards, and bland events. Many of the HoT LS and early PoF LS maps have become completely abandoned. And since open world maps are designed with player density as a requirement, they fail very quickly once population checks start failing.

Meanwhile it's much simpler to keep 5-10 man instances populated, especially when it can take weeks to beat said instances. It gives content shelf life.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Ombras.2853]

Uh, we’ve got PLENTY of meta maps for every season and expansion. If you think that EVERY map has to be populated (except for particular events) well, that’s something near impossible.

[Zenith.7301]

3 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Uh, we’ve got PLENTY of meta maps for every season and expansion. If you think that EVERY map has to be populated (except for particular events) well, that’s something near impossible.

 

 

Except it's not when properly designed. There's a reason why core HoT maps stay populated after 5+ years. They've got well designed meta, the map properly guides population density to make sure DE's all have a chance to be completed, and the rewards stay relevant because the payouts are good and you need the currency for all the Gen 2.0 legendaries on top of the precursor collections for half of them.

Meanwhile core PoF maps have been dead since the first LS PoF maps came out. They're scattered garbage, with no proper funneling of player population towards events, abysmal rewards, and a dearth of waypoints on large maps with mobs with an aggro range and ranged attacks with debuff application to keep you in combat all the way from Pluto. They're beautiful (by far the most artistically accomplished of GW2's maps), lore rich maps completely undermined by terrible gameplay design and reward schemes. Totally wasted potential by poor design.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Leonidrex.5649]

10 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Least time gated is what they mean. 2nd and 3rd legendary set still takes several extra months because you need extra LI for the precursor armor since you no longer get the chest off the achievement completion.

 

This is not even true. People who have no interest in raiding will continue to do open world maps. Those who want to improve and engage in challenging content will be rewarded for doing the extra work.

Gold will always be more valuable than just legendary armor, anyways. Legendary armor you only obtain 3 times, and then the content becomes obsolete. Gold is of infinite value since you always need gold for everything.

Open world maps are frankly a humongous waste of resources as they are quickly abandoned the moment another map comes out with better rewards and the achievements for the map are completed. The replay value of open world maps is abysmal, and since you don't really have to invest weeks into progression for the map clear, it has a lot less shelf life than raids or challenging dungeons/fractals would.

Look at the core PoF maps, absolute ghost towns because of ill designed aggro ranges annoying players out of the areas, terrible rewards, and bland events. Many of the HoT LS and early PoF LS maps have become completely abandoned. And since open world maps are designed with player density as a requirement, they fail very quickly once population checks start failing.

Meanwhile it's much simpler to keep 5-10 man instances populated, especially when it can take weeks to beat said instances. It gives content shelf life.

Yep, 1 year later im still enjoying 100CM fight.
Got bored of dragonfall within a week.
Ill give them props for making drizzlewood fun for a meta but that is more of a 1 of rather then usual thing.
Worst thing is that the time it takes to make something like a drizz meta, they could easy make 10 new fractals PepeHands

[Puck.3697]

3 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Worst thing is that the time it takes to make something like a drizz meta, they could easy make 10 new fractals PepeHands

Tbh they don't seem to do themselves any favours when it comes to content development 😂😂. 

I could think of a hundred ways they could make content more budget friendly and quicker to create so this game would have a far better content cycle then right now 😂. 

[Yoci.2481]

The starting zone has all the PvE content I need.

[Senqu.8054]

On 11/13/2021 at 9:27 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

That's absolutely true ... but people dismissing PVE as a nothing game mode because 'anything works in PVE' isn't going to fix Virtuoso if it doesn't work in PVP/WvW. 

Again, I don't know if there is some fundamental issue in understanding here from people, so I will just repeat myself ... AGAIN (and again if I have to):

My point here has been to re-establish the facts against some pretty strong ignorances; the opinions of ALL people matter, not just the PVP/WVW crowd and that PVE is a valid game mode to design especs for and assess their performance. If you agree with that, then I have no dispute with you. 

The point you try to make is pure kitten, don’t try to make it legit. The relation is unilateral to begin with. But let’s turn it around, a lot of people here delivered you now countless of examples what happened through the past 9 years (16 years). You haven’t been able to deny or deliver any counter argument against it. In fact all YOU did was doing assumptions. „Of cause it can…“, „It works both ways right?…, „There is a process going…“. 
 

Give me something I can work with. Give me an example that happened in the past 9 years of game development that would support your reasoning. For example when they deleted several traits in PvP, show me what we got as compensation. Explain why these traits are still usable in PvE but not in PvP. The whole redesign of Chrono and Mirage made them obsolet in PvP but braindead and stronger in PvE. 1 dodge in PvP, 2 dodges in PvE. Or just show me where they promised something and delivered what was said. 
 

The PvP community is playing half of the game because the Design is not made with at least PvP taken in consideration. And you still have the guts to tell people they are ignorant?

Edited November 18, 2021 by Senqu.8054

[Senqu.8054]

On 11/13/2021 at 10:48 PM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

The main difference is the resource management. In GW1 if you spammed you would find yourself without energy and this was huge particularly on monks, it meant the death of your entire team. 

Plus the actual combat had more depth, tons of skill types, thousands of skills which you had to memorize to react accordingly.

Everyone had a defined role (ex rnger rupting, spamming poison around, split for offense and defense) and everyone contributed to spike. GvG without communication meant lose, there was no chance. GW2 communication gives a boost but it isn't as essencial. 

True thing about dodge.

But still GW1 was more a team pvp whereas gw2 is more a single player pvp in a team. 

 

You have a a good point there. The healer role made it a lot different to gw2. 

 

Still miss my Rt/mo Rt/p N/mo healer squad. Still can’t understand why they made the decision to go engi instead of ritualist.