Did these people play the same spec as we did?

[Puck.3697]

11 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

E-specs of Hot and PoF took pvp and wvw into account, they were designed with competitive aspects in mind. 

i dont think this is EoDs speccs problem..

If these elites came out in HoT, they'd of been fine, their concepts would function perfectly fine. the problem EoD Speccs have is they're balanced properly and actually arent a Power creep on core proffessions Unlike PoFs and HoTs. the issue is. that they arent. so these speccs are directly susposed to compete with HoT and PoF Elite speccs and none of them simply do.

I cant say EoD Speccs are badly designed. and they function far closer to Core Speccs, the issue is. their Design would need to exist in both HoT and PoFs Speccs to realistically be competitive. Virtuoso feels like it competes Functionality wise closer to Core Mesmer then it does feel like it competes with Mirage in PvP enviroment as a example.

they just all feel weak.. and it feels like a Weird fall back from the normal power creep the game has been uptil now.

 

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

14 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

i dont think this is EoDs speccs problem..

If these elites came out in HoT, they'd of been fine, their concepts would function perfectly fine. the problem EoD Speccs have is they're balanced properly and actually arent a Power creep on core proffessions Unlike PoFs and HoTs. the issue is. that they arent. so these speccs are directly susposed to compete with HoT and PoF Elite speccs and none of them simply do.

I cant say EoD Speccs are badly designed. and they function far closer to Core Speccs, the issue is. their Design would need to exist in both HoT and PoFs Speccs to realistically be competitive. Virtuoso feels like it competes Functionality wise closer to Core Mesmer then it does feel like it competes with Mirage in PvP enviroment as a example.

they just all feel weak.. and it feels like a Weird fall back from the normal power creep the game has been uptil now.

 

 

This specs are worse than core, that's the problem. Talking specifically about Virt, it removed clones, which is fine, but replaces them with nothing. 

You lose sustain, you lose damage (condi on scepter and staff, power on GS). You lose IP, you trade distortion with a kitten 1 1/2 block that will get you killed due to the attack. You lose actual good traits in favor of garbage traits and some of them will get you killed due to revealed. You lose damage of shatters, small radius aoe of shatters, a good F3. 

And what you get in return? 1200 range shatters that will never hit above 500 range due to no tracking. And you can't even maintain the distance because there is no cc and no mobility. 

And a useless weapon that has no purpose. 

The problem lies in the concept itself not in numbers. Virt is a lesson on how to not design a class. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

This specs are worse than core, that's the problem. Talking specifically about Virt, it removed clones, which is fine, but replaces them with nothing. 

You lose sustain, you lose damage (condi on scepter and staff, power on GS). You lose IP, you trade distortion with a kitten 1 1/2 block that will get you killed due to the attack. You lose actual good traits in favor of garbage traits and some of them will get you killed due to revealed. You lose damage of shatters, small radius aoe of shatters, a good F3. 

And what you get in return? 1200 range shatters that will never hit above 500 range due to no tracking. And you can't even maintain the distance because there is no cc and no mobility. 

And a useless weapon that has no purpose. 

The problem lies in the concept itself not in numbers. Virt is a lesson on how to not design a class. 

i'd argue thats more execution.

The Blades being Identical to shatters outside effect. is Effectively execution of the Concept. and the reason the blades Dont feel like a New mechanic is because of this... if the bladesongs were Heals or CC Based. they'd feel very different to the current shatters and we'd see more of a Niche for it compared to what they are currently.

the Weapon having No Purpose. is the Games Execution as a whole, this game has done ranged Gameplay terribly and in most cases they're Just fundamentally bad playstyles therefore a 1200 Range Dagger is useless as ur going to stand in melee anyway.

Concepts fine. Execution was  not ideal to say the least. If they listen to feedback and Make the Mechanical changes Nessercary it'll have a place Realistically.

Rework its Traits, Make the Old traits modal so they actually function with the Specc, make the bladesongs Better and potientally offer it some way to make its Projectiles unblockable. while true. Numbers wont fix it.. Improving the execution would.

at the end of the day:

What we saw of Virtuoso was Behind the actual development of the specc.. it was a Frozen Copy of the Specc from a Long long time ago so was on its Testing Day already behind where the development of it was On their clients.

to beleive they're seriously going to launch 7 (at minimum) Dead Speccs on a Expansion Launch.. which is its Primary selling factor is Absurd, All that matters at this point is the 4th Beta Wave, Once we see What anet have done to improve the spec and how much of the feedback Anet have listened to will decide if this specc will be worth anything.

Yah, it had a Bad Start. No its defintly wasnt in a Ideal Situation and Yes effectively all it gave mesmers was a pvE Alternative to Pure DPS Chronomancer. But tbh Reworking 4 Blade Skills to something more Functional. Access to unblockable attacks and Access to some more Sustain arent large or out of reach requests. the traits Defintly need reworking.. and the fact virtuoso couldnt use soooo many of its Old traits will obviously be fixed.

i wouldnt say we can Say its beneath Core currently tho.

Remember when we tested Virtuoso It was Bug Riddled and None of the Core traits (Which they stated WOULD work) Were defintly not working. Which means its Damage was Severely Affected by the fact it wasnt getting everything it should have been.

Either way. theres no need to doomsday this hard til 4th beta. the beta and stats were provided.. they have More then enough feedback to fix the Flaws. until the 4th beta.. we no longer have any clue to where Virtuoso is currently.. it could of been reworked for all we know.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

i'd argue thats more execution.

The Blades being Identical to shatters outside effect. is Effectively execution of the Concept. and the reason the blades Dont feel like a New mechanic is because of this... if the bladesongs were Heals or CC Based. they'd feel very different to the current shatters and we'd see more of a Niche for it compared to what they are currently.

the Weapon having No Purpose. is the Games Execution as a whole, this game has done ranged Gameplay terribly and in most cases they're Just fundamentally bad playstyles therefore a 1200 Range Dagger is useless as ur going to stand in melee anyway.

Concepts fine. Execution was  not ideal to say the least. If they listen to feedback and Make the Mechanical changes Nessercary it'll have a place Realistically.

Rework its Traits, Make the Old traits modal so they actually function with the Specc, make the bladesongs Better and potientally offer it some way to make its Projectiles unblockable. while true. Numbers wont fix it.. Improving the execution would.

at the end of the day:

What we saw of Virtuoso was Behind the actual development of the specc.. it was a Frozen Copy of the Specc from a Long long time ago so was on its Testing Day already behind where the development of it was On their clients.

to beleive they're seriously going to launch 7 (at minimum) Dead Speccs on a Expansion Launch.. which is its Primary selling factor is Absurd, All that matters at this point is the 4th Beta Wave, Once we see What anet have done to improve the spec and how much of the feedback Anet have listened to will decide if this specc will be worth anything.

Yah, it had a Bad Start. No its defintly wasnt in a Ideal Situation and Yes effectively all it gave mesmers was a pvE Alternative to Pure DPS Chronomancer. But tbh Reworking 4 Blade Skills to something more Functional. Access to unblockable attacks and Access to some more Sustain arent large or out of reach requests. the traits Defintly need reworking.. and the fact virtuoso couldnt use soooo many of its Old traits will obviously be fixed.

i wouldnt say we can Say its beneath Core currently tho.

Remember when we tested Virtuoso It was Bug Riddled and None of the Core traits (Which they stated WOULD work) Were defintly not working. Which means its Damage was Severely Affected by the fact it wasnt getting everything it should have been.

Either way. theres no need to doomsday this hard til 4th beta. the beta and stats were provided.. they have More then enough feedback to fix the Flaws. until the 4th beta.. we no longer have any clue to where Virtuoso is currently.. it could of been reworked for all we know.

Depends on what you consider the concept. 

A ranged damage dealer without the tools to do so or a knife thrower that makes a living as a psionic and plays music at the pub on the weekend? 

Either way the concept is trash. 

The damage modifiers were all working. So the damage will still be the same. 

As for the 4th beta we'll see, according to Teison (iirc) they said just small changes to don't count on anything good. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

E-specs of Hot and PoF took pvp and wvw into account, they were designed with competitive aspects in mind. 

The new ones except a few were not. 

Also "guild wars" name comes from the lore of the first game, nothing to do with pvp/wvw on gw2. 

But you're wrong once again, pvp was a huge focus on the beginning with the whole e-sports thing. 

But as I said pvp was never good on gw2 due to the mentioned stuff however it was miles better before HoT dropped. 

Yeah, I knew you would go to the esports thing because everyone does who doesn't think about how the game has evolved and who its marketed to. Of course you can esports the hell out of a game that has PVP in it. That doesn't make it a good PVP game, it doesn't make it the original focus of the game either. Remind me what the outcome of that esport fiasco was?

What is evident is that PVE is the bread and butter of this game and it would be negligent of Anet to ignore that, at the peril of the continued success of the game. It always was like this and it always will be, no matter what people convince themselves of.  

Edited November 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yeah, I knew you would go to the esports thing because everyone does who doesn't think about how the game has evolved and who its marketed to. Of course you can esports the hell out of a game that has PVP in it. That doesn't make it a good PVP game, it doesn't make it the original focus of the game either. Remind me what the outcome of that esport fiasco was?

What is evident is that PVE is the bread and butter of this game and it would be negligent of Anet to ignore that, at the peril of the continued success of the game. It always was like this and it always will be, no matter what people convince themselves of.  

It was marketed as an esport game. But I agree, like I said above the pvp in this game sucks. Fx are gigantic and obstructs the view, there is no risk on skills, on the contrary every skill had a safety net, you don't need that much coordination, some mechanics are over the top and ANet was warned about this since GW1 (shadowstep) and stealth. The fact that there is no resource management is a fail, so resuming the pvp is kitten.

ANet doesn't have a clue not even regarding pve. I sti remember the the max gear is and will be exotic, oh its ascended and the dungeons left to rot. ANet reminds me of the kid that one day wants something and the next wants the opposite. 

[Obtena.7952]

51 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

It was marketed as an esport game. But I agree, like I said above the pvp in this game sucks. Fx are gigantic and obstructs the view, there is no risk on skills, on the contrary every skill had a safety net, you don't need that much coordination, some mechanics are over the top and ANet was warned about this since GW1 (shadowstep) and stealth. The fact that there is no resource management is a fail, so resuming the pvp is kitten.

ANet doesn't have a clue not even regarding pve. I sti remember the the max gear is and will be exotic, oh its ascended and the dungeons left to rot. ANet reminds me of the kid that one day wants something and the next wants the opposite. 

Well, you can trash EVERY aspect of the game all you like, but Anet is doing SOMETHING right or it wouldn't be here. You might think Anet doesn't have a clue about PVE ... the existence, continued development and focus of the expansions on PVE are evidences you are wrong. Something about what they are doing in PVE is enough to keep this game moving forward. 

Here is my conjecture ... any espec Anet will release that leaning more to competitive game modes ... will be less popular. Why? Because most people in this game PVE and the game is PVE focused. Deny it all you like or not but the casual PVE mindset is the one that drives the development of this game. The game history and Anet's behaviour simply do not support the idea that competitive game modes are a consideration. IF anything, things like splits, etc ... just show that Anet doesn't want competitive game modes to impact PVE. I don't believe those exist to balance, I believe they exist to segregate. If that makes specs trash to you, you are playing the wrong game. 

See, here is the thing ... 'these people' did play the same spec as you and they did like it. Not because they did some in depth analysis of it's performance in any game mode, but because they likely regular, casual players that the mechanics of Virtuoso appeals to. They aren't looking for performance. Theme and visuals is what appeals to these people ... and here the kicker; there are ALOT more of them then there are of people like yourself. People like yourself and the OP ... you just don't understand who's playing this game. 

PS ... if you REALLY want to see the intent of what market this game was designed for, just go look at the GS and tell me how many PVP vs PVE oriented items are in there. What matters is what is real in the game, not what some marketing tactics convinces you of. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Depends on what you consider the concept. 

A ranged damage dealer without the tools to do so or a knife thrower that makes a living as a psionic and plays music at the pub on the weekend? 

Either way the concept is trash. 

The damage modifiers were all working. So the damage will still be the same. 

As for the 4th beta we'll see, according to Teison (iirc) they said just small changes to don't count on anything good. 

Well as far as I can see. 

The concept was susposed to be a mesmer without clone AI effectively. I'd imagine everything around is was there design of the specc, and finally the execution would be traits, weapon skills bladesongs effects. 

Mesmer without clones is a good concept. It distinguishes it from other mesmer speccs at easy glance. 

The designs ok, alot of purple and maybe over the top in places.. 

I'd argue pretty much all the problems come from the traits and the fact bladesongs have very little unique to them while giving up many things the other speccs have. 

Also the utilities weren't great. 

So I'd say the execution and how it's been put together kinda is what is landing it In the grave currently

[Tseison.4659]

4 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Depends on what you consider the concept. 

A ranged damage dealer without the tools to do so or a knife thrower that makes a living as a psionic and plays music at the pub on the weekend? 

Either way the concept is trash. 

The damage modifiers were all working. So the damage will still be the same. 

As for the 4th beta we'll see, according to Teison (iirc) they said just small changes to don't count on anything good. 

Correct. As mentioned, “small changes,” seems pretty lazy to me. Even if it’s “something than nothing” if that’s the kind of attitude they want to have towards these new elite specs after ALL the feedback we’ve given them, then EOD definitely should’ve been delayed because by the time release hits, I won’t be surprised if everyone is running the same builds and totally writing off the new ones.

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yeah, I knew you would go to the esports thing because everyone does who doesn't think about how the game has evolved and who its marketed to. Of course you can esports the hell out of a game that has PVP in it. That doesn't make it a good PVP game, it doesn't make it the original focus of the game either. Remind me what the outcome of that esport fiasco was?

What is evident is that PVE is the bread and butter of this game and it would be negligent of Anet to ignore that, at the peril of the continued success of the game. It always was like this and it always will be, no matter what people convince themselves of.  

No it was marketed as a PvP game. You are correct going beyond they did defintly turn to PvE over time. People like to ignore the orginal intentions of the game. 

Same with new world. It's orginal intention was to be a PvP game it's now no longer a PvP game mainly. 

However continued success?? 

Company almost died and fired like 50% of their employees. 

Games done nothing but decrease in population over the time the games put more and more PvE into it. 

I'd question your concept of success here. 

Dungeons launched and then cut. 

Fractals launched then barely touched much. 

Raids launched and their end has now been announced. 

DRMs launched and failed

Strikes are now the new focus? 

I mean what real successes can we pull from PvE content of the game? 

Not even open world players are entirely happy shown by their outrage of ice broods saga ending. 

The biggest consistant PvE success this games had at all is pretty much meta trains and even then I'd make a slight argument most people like em cause they're very easy to sit through half afk while doing something else. 

The game has really failed to get any sort of competitive PvE going at all. The only thing 99% of pvers do is open world solo content effectively.. 

And that's who's now target focus realistically, open world / story mode players. 

 

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No it was marketed as a PvP game.

Again, I'm not arguing about this because what is real is how the game is designed and developed. If you are convinced about the marketing that GW2 was intended to be this massive PVP focused game, then so be it ... but that's not how game looks like if you never got that marketing message. 

I mean, yes continued success ... because MMO's that are STILL being developed after 9 years ... that's success. Just because we have examples of where Anet has made mistakes or tried something that didn't work ... doesn't mean GW2 isn't successful. If it wasn't successful, it wouldn't exist. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Correct. As mentioned, “small changes,” seems pretty lazy to me. Even if it’s “something than nothing” if that’s the kind of attitude they want to have towards these new elite specs after ALL the feedback we’ve given them, then EOD definitely should’ve been delayed because by the time release hits, I won’t be surprised if everyone is running the same builds and totally writing off the new ones.

Tbh I'm hoping for a rework to bladesongs and all virts traits at a minimum 

If we go beyond that. 

We need fixs to how counterable it's damage is. Given some form of defensive functionality.. maybe give bladesongs barrier based on how many blades are used?... Something atleast to try make this more accessible. 

If we go deeper. 

I think the difficulty of mesmer and virt disparity is a large concern. Here's something to account for. 

Basically whenever virt is meta your mesmer mains are gonna get bored. And whenever virt isn't meta the people whove gone mesmer for it are gonna suffer. 

I really hate it when proffessions jump and down on difficulty curves for this reason. A elite shouldn't be easier to play then its core specc effectively. It means shifting the meta is a severe problem for some players 

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, I'm not arguing about this because what is real is how the game is designed and developed. If you are convinced about the marketing that GW2 was intended to be this massive PVP focused game, then so be it ... but that's not how game looks like if you never got that marketing message

I beleive the opening game was PvP focused. But as I said I agree it's direction has defintly shifted to PvE over time. 

Weather we beleive it's a success would be debatable however. 

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Weather we beleive it's a success would be debatable however. 

I don't really think that's debatable. We are talking about the game at large as a business ... so what is successful is pretty clear by it's existence and continued development and the fact that players continue to patronize it. It only gets 'debatable' if you want to apply your own criteria for success or only examine a part of the game. 

PVP ... not successful. WvW ... questionably successful. Instanced PVE group content ... questionable. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Tseison.4659]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Tbh I'm hoping for a rework to bladesongs and all virts traits at a minimum 

If we go beyond that. 

We need fixs to how counterable it's damage is. Given some form of defensive functionality.. maybe give bladesongs barrier based on how many blades are used?... Something atleast to try make this more accessible. 

If we go deeper. 

I think the difficulty of mesmer and virt disparity is a large concern. Here's something to account for. 

Basically whenever virt is meta your mesmer mains are gonna get bored. And whenever virt isn't meta the people whove gone mesmer for it are gonna suffer. 

I really hate it when proffessions jump and down on difficulty curves for this reason. A elite shouldn't be easier to play then its core specc effectively. It means shifting the meta is a severe problem for some players 

I agree with you. In terms of going beyond what we got or I guess what we can realistically tweak, in regards to defensiveness, they really should've made Blade Renewal the F4 instead of a utility. Then have the Bladeturn Requiem a utility instead with two charges. Rain of Swords and Sword of Decimation, I'm sorry but I still stand behind combining them as one and freeing up a slot for a mobility skill. Psychic Force for as long of a CD it has, I was expecting the knockback to be more along the lines of what the Catalyst got in Windstorm. That screams Psychic/Telekinetic push to me and helps with keeping distance from enemies.

Then for the Bladesongs, yes, they do need to do something else other than be the same identical BS anet is conditioning us into. Additionally, I still think it was a missed opportunity to not give Virtuoso dual daggers. But other than that, Bladesongs, Traits, definitely need a mobility skills, combine some skills together and switch things around, then it should be "decent". 

[Mell.4873]

On 10/30/2021 at 7:01 AM, Borked.6824 said:

Here's the thing.  I'm one of those pesky non-mesmer mains lauding the changes.  I play my Mesmer somewhat frequently, but every time I do...every time, I ask myself the question.  "Why would I play this bloated, overly-complicated, outdated class that takes 10x the effort to get 1x the gain, over my other classes that at most have to invest 5x the effort to achieve equal gain?  Why would anyone?".  The profession as a whole needs "pruning" to reach people who have not been obstinately maining the class for a decade, and while the Virtuoso is not profoundly transforming it on the levels of some of the other specs, it's doing a very good job of improving quality of life.  If people like their Mesmer so much, they can disown the new spec altogether and continue doing what you're doing now.  

Mesmer has always been like that, there are so many things you need to learn to play it. Mirage for the most part reduce the complexity since all you needed to do is trigger ambushes on dodge. 

[Levetty.1279]

12 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Which they stated WOULD work)

If this was the case why is one of the Virtuoso traits just what Sharper Images should be on Virtuoso?

[Salt Mode.3780]

We all know why ANET's Esports failed so hard because no one wants to watch point node capture games. Not to mention builds in sPvP at stagnated due to amulets runes/sigils working they way they do. If sPvP had what WvW does with more variety with builds it wouldn't be a snorefest.

GW2 was marketed on WvW, servers fighting other servers with siege and capture towers keeps etc, this was what made GW2 special from other MMO but compared to other games GW2 literally had little to no exposure. The game has been so long and GW2 content creators don't even make more then 1mil views. 

Fact is PvE can go both ways with how combat works in GW2, either its going to be extremely easy or its going to be hair pulling difficult. Combat is made to be PvP not PvE, again because the game's original intent was to market on WvW servers vs servers. In the beginning of the game PvE was non-existent, just look at dungeons. They just realized PvE was easier so they expanded upon it after expansions yet for WvW aside from one map change and alpine borderland's water area changed literally nothing has been done and this was ALL HoT.

The meme about Alliance was announced 3 years ago and 3 years now the system couldn't even complete beta. So for those PvE players you guys got much more stuff then sPvP/WvW players. 

Going back on Virtuoso, those who played Mesmer since the game release naturally have a deeper understanding on why Virtuoso is lackluster. No one said the concept was bad but it doesn't mean the execution was correct. But if everyone is using PvE as a standard why Virtuoso is ok...? Honestly anything will work in open world and in terms of high end content raiding, all builds are meant for speed runs but it doesn't mean there isn't safer builds to do those harder content safer and easier it will just take longer.

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Going back on Virtuoso, those who played Mesmer since the game release naturally have a deeper understanding on why Virtuoso is lackluster. No one said the concept was bad but it doesn't mean the execution was correct. But if everyone is using PvE as a standard why Virtuoso is ok...? Honestly anything will work in open world and in terms of high end content raiding, all builds are meant for speed runs but it doesn't mean there isn't safer builds to do those harder content safer and easier it will just take longer.

Again, the idea that 'anything ' works in PVE is completely ignorant. No, not anything works in PVE ... that is NOT an honest thing to say. When you see 'anything' work in PVE, it's because you are seeing those 'anything' builds get carried by the PVE zerg. Those 'anything' builds absolutely MELT when people try to use them alone in any content released since HoT. 

Deny it all you like, but PVE is an important consideration in the development of these specs ... probably even THE most important. No attempt to smear the content, it's difficulty or it's players will change that. 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

21 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, the idea that 'anything ' works in PVE is rather ignorant. There is JUST as wide a range of builds that range from terrible to amazing in PVE as there are for competitive modes. No, not anything works in PVE ... that is NOT an honest thing to say. When you see 'anything' work in PVE, it's because you are seeing those 'anything' builds get carried by the PVE zerg. Those 'anything' builds melt when people try to use them in any content released since HoT. 

Deny it all you like, but PVE is an important consideration in the development of these specs ... probably even THE most important. 

 

So what you are basically saying the same just a twist to your perspective. Meta builds are made and built to have the fastest clears, its is optimal to be the fastest clears does not mean that those are the only builds that can be used. 

The only reason why "terrible builds" are made is due to "optimal builds" are created and anything else is just not worth. There is a difference between people who know the game and are knowledgeable creating builds that deviate from meta builds vs "terrible builds" that are made by newer players who generally don't know the game enough to understand how things work.

Again before you start spewing your nonsense NO ONE disagreed that PvE had dominated GW2 over the past years but this game still has PvP and WvW and until those mode are completely gone, it is fair for those who do play PvP and WvW to have input on why e-specs are NOT performing enough for those game mode. Again after-all the game WAS made as a WvW/PvP concept that THEN expanded to PvE. Its quite ignorant for those who knows that this is true especially those who has played the game since release but ignore the fact.

If PvErs think that the e-specs are fine then thats on them but they should not input their opinions on a game mode that they don't even care about.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Obtena.7952]

 

Quote

NO ONE disagreed that PvE had dominated GW2 over the past years but this game still has PvP and WvW and until those mode are completely gone, it is fair for those who do play PvP and WvW to have input on why e-specs are NOT performing enough for those game mode. 

You seem to have forgotten here. This thread isn't 10 pages because people are dismissing PvP/WvW concerns so I'm not sure what you are going on about here. 

There are NUMEROUS posts in this thread where people don't think PVE is a valid way to assess the Virtuoso espec because of their false perceptions about PVE players and the difficulty of the content. I'm not even debating it's THE dominating factor though I speculate it probably is ... but for people to deny it should be factor in the design of an espec at all ... that's just nonsense. YET ... here we are. People talking about level 1 naked charrs and 'anything' working in PVE when it doesn't. 

And to be fair ... I don't see ANYWHERE in this thread where PVE players input their opinions on a game mode they don't even care about'  Just sounds like you are fishing. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

You seem to have forgotten here. This thread isn't 10 pages because people are dismissing PvP/WvW concerns so I'm not sure what you are going on about here. 

There are NUMEROUS posts in this thread where people don't think PVE is a valid way to assess the Virtuoso espec because of their false perceptions about PVE players and the difficulty of the content. I'm not even debating it's THE dominating factor though I speculate it probably is ... but for people to deny it should be factor in the design of an espec at all ... that's just nonsense. 

And to be fair ... I don't see ANYWHERE in this thread where PVE players input their opinions on a game mode they don't even care about'  Just sounds like you are fishing. 

If anyone is fishing its you, goes the same with every single post you make in this WHOLE forum. Regardless its the fact that numbers (aka damage) are being pushed around and its more or less on the PvE spectrum. Making comments on Virtuoso is fine when generally a lot of the problems people faced are in competitive game mode again because it exist. Generally my posts and comments are open ended and not specified like yours due to the fact that people like you love to pick scraps and make something big out of nothing. 

Anyways cheers have fun cherry picking my direct msg towards anything you have to say in regards to this ends here so feel free to post something that I won't read because I already have a general idea on what your next post is going to be anyways.

[Obtena.7952]

12 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

 Making comments on Virtuoso is fine when generally a lot of the problems people faced are in competitive game mode again because it exist. 

So all of these posts you are making is because you have a problem with the fact that I think Virtuoso is fine in PVE? Well, I guess you will just have to figure out how to accept that. I mean, I can see why Virtuoso appeals to people in PVE. I'm not sure why some people in this thread think dismissing other people's appeal to the spec will fix their issues with it for competitive modes. That seems like a  pretty absurd approach don't you think? 

You think people dismissing PVE content and it's players is a big nothing that I'm making a big deal out of? That's interesting ... and ironic given that you are doing the same thing by accusing me of dismissing PVP/WVW, especially when I haven't. 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Leonidrex.5649]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, the idea that 'anything ' works in PVE is completely ignorant. No, not anything works in PVE ... that is NOT an honest thing to say. When you see 'anything' work in PVE, it's because you are seeing those 'anything' builds get carried by the PVE zerg. Those 'anything' builds absolutely MELT when people try to use them alone in any content released since HoT. 

Deny it all you like, but PVE is an important consideration in the development of these specs ... probably even THE most important. No attempt to smear the content, it's difficulty or it's players will change that. 

 

tell me again that any build doesnt work in pve?

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

tell me again that any build doesnt work in pve?

NO problem ... because that's not just any build ... it's one specific build. You know what the word 'any' means right?

Edited November 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952