The Untamed - new ranger elite spec

[Obtena.7952]

Weird concerns about ranged or moving targets for some people ... because all the sudden Rangers don't have ranged weapons and weapon swapping? 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Gotejjeken.1267]

21 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Weird concerns about ranged or moving targets for some people ... because all the sudden Rangers don't have ranged weapons and weapon swapping? 

 

The reveal video never showed weapon swap, so no we no longer have weapon swap until proven otherwise.  

[Klowdy.3126]

6 hours ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

Interesting to see what exactly the "wild magic" buffs does, whatever it's just stat boosting or perhaps changes how some skills function? 
Sounds like it will give plenty of CC and heavy dmg from pet, so very much in the spirit of Bunny Thumper as many hoped for?

Afraid it won't give rangers the spec that can make them usefull in zergs, since it seems like the pet very much will still get whiped out.

I don't even care how it performs, I'm going GS/hammer for sure. I'm gonna imagine it will do at very leas okay, and should be decent in open world stuff.

[Obtena.7952]

14 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The reveal video never showed weapon swap

Of course it didn't ... it's showcasing the espec weapon. NONE of the espec videos showed a weapon swap (with exception of BS since that's part of it's theme).  I didn't see LOTS of things in that video ... but it's absurd to think we won't have them. 

I mean, I get it, you like to argue with me ... but what I said wasn't wrong. There isn't a 'valid' concern that the espec doesn't do well against ranged or mobile targets ... until you actually get to play it ... but that didn't stop you from making that claim did it? yet for some reason, I can't assume the espec has a typical class weapon swap feature? Um, sure, whatever you what to believe. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lazze.9870]

26 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Weird concerns about ranged or moving targets for some people ... because all the sudden Rangers don't have ranged weapons and weapon swapping? 

 

Yeah, it is so weird to worry about moving targets for a pet focused spec when the pets are having a difficult time hitting moving targets on core.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Lazze.9870 said:

Yeah, it is so weird to worry about moving targets for a pet focused spec when the pets are having a difficult time hitting moving targets on core.

That's not specific to the espec though ... that's a general class issue. 

[Lazze.9870]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's not specific to the espec though ... that's a general class issue. 

 

It's an issue that is gonna be more profound on a more pet focused spec.

 

Like, come on.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

It's an issue that is gonna be more profound on a more pet focused spec.

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though ... that's a class issue, not a espec issue. We have no reason to believe from that video that pet movement behaviour on Untamed is different than any other Ranger espec. Whether it's affected more or not remains to be seen by actually playing it. There is a possibility it's even LESS affected. 

I know it's popular to take general class issues to trash especs, but that doesn't make sense to do so. The specs aren't there to solve issues with the class, they are there to offer variety in playstyles. 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lazze.9870]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though ... that's a class issue, not a espec issue. We have no reason to believe from that video that pet movement behaviour on Untamed is different than any other Ranger espec. Whether it's affected more or not remains to be seen by actually playing it. 

 

 

And it doesn't change the fact that it is a valid concern for how a pet focused spec will perform.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though ... that's a class issue, not a espec issue. We have no reason to believe from that video that pet movement behaviour on Untamed is different than any other Ranger espec. Whether it's affected more or not remains to be seen by actually playing it. 

 

 

It's not a class issue, as soulbeast has no problem with pet movement when merged.  

Since we see no merging in the video, then fundamentally Untamed has pet movement behavior different than at least one e-spec, the Soulbeast.  

Also, we literally don't know if we will be locked to hammer while being 'untamed', so pet pathing is a concern, especially if we can't swap either the pet or the weapon for some reason. 

For example, It very well could be if the player has the green poo glow then weapon swap is disabled, and if the pet has it then pet swap is disabled.  Granted, that may be a tad too technical for anet devs, but who knows.  

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

And it doesn't change the fact that it is a valid concern for how a pet focused spec will perform.

Well, that's where we differ in opinion because a pet focused spec has many ways to address that, like on pretty much all the Ranger specs with exception of being melded Soulbeast. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lazze.9870]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, that's where we differ in opinion because a pet focused spec has many ways to address that, like on pretty much all the Ranger specs with exception of being melded Soulbeast. 

 

Haha, keep dreaming.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Haha, keep dreaming.

It's not a dream ... you DON'T think Ranger has ways to address moving targets? 100% certain that's just wrong. 

[Dadnir.5038]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though ... that's a class issue, not a espec issue.

How can you expect something that's created on top of a class issue to not be affected by the class issue? There were good reasons for the devs to move away from the pet with Druid and SlB, I don't understand why they would forget about those reason and make a spec that's bound to suffer heavily from the core class issue.

- In PvE, the pet don't amount to much and what they showed of the spec don't make it seem like it bring anything interesting on the table there.

- In small scale PvP, what the spec bring is interesting but that's the area of the game where players hate on AI and can't forgive a "strong" pet so, as it stand, the spec is bound to make people whine.

- In large scale PvP, the pet is a useless feature no matter how durable the dev make it.

No matter how I look at this "Untamed", it's bound to be subpar everywhere a few months after release (of course it will be OP at release).

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

How can you expect something that's created on top of a class issue to not be affected by the class issue?

Hold on ... I'm saying this isn't specific to the Untamed espec. To be fair, we don't even know how significant a concern that is on Untamed without playing it ... and certainly not from a 20 second video.

This is a general class issue, with the exception to melded Soulbeast. I think it's weird to take a GENERAL issue with a class as a complaint/concern specific to one espec. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Zergs.9715]

It's giving me the vibes of Oozemancer from Tales of Majeyal 🙂 Shame it's not.

[Lazze.9870]

21 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's not a dream ... you DON'T think Ranger has ways to address moving targets? 100% certain that's just wrong. 

 

The ranger itself has no problem with moving targets. The pet does. This is a pet focused spec. It's gonna be even worse if this is a single pet spec, which means you can't swap the pet directly on yourself for an easy follow-up after CCing someone.

This specific class issue will translate directly onto this spec. And potentially be even worse, depending on what it wants to do. Damage through the pet is wonky enough as it is one core.

You wanna make a point out of how this is a general class issue. Yeah? Congrats on figuring that out. Doesn't make this spec more enticing.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Leonidrex.5649]

6 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

It is a rock themed buff. It could maybe be something like making the pet invulnerable while it has the buff, which would make pets more viable in WvW.

 

So I think there could be potential.

I think it should be the opposite, pet should be near invincible without a buff ( and VERY weak )
but with a buff it starts providing loads of CC and damage but it can be hard CCed and killed off.
But either way could work, I actually have high hopes as the spec has huge potential to be very fun, hope they dont kitten it up like most of the others.

[Liewec.2896]

2 hammer elite specs this expansion, guess Anet are trying to make hammer a thing again since they utterly destroyed it back in feb2020.

 

hey anet if you're giving ele and ranger hammer, how about you give warrior their hammer back.

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

I find it funny that you keep arguing with someone that has tons more experience on this class in competetive play.

It's really easy to do when those people imply things like Ranger doesn't have ways to address moving targets 🤷‍♂️Plus you got no idea how much experience I have with anything. 

Again, we DON'T know how pet pathing is affected in this spec until we play it. It's a GENERAL class issue and for all we know, it could be addressed somehow, like it was with melded Soulbeast. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lazze.9870]

16 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Plus you got no idea how much experience I have with anything. 

 

I can tell from reading your comments. I'm also sure you don't main this class like I do, and I doubt you play in a WvW focused guild. Best case you might play in the same PvP tier as I do.

And because it clearly wasn't obvious to you, the keep dreaming part was not about how a ranger can deal with moving targets. 

I'm gonna just copy myself: The ranger itself has no problem with moving targets. The pet does. This is a pet focused spec. It's gonna be even worse if this is a single pet spec, which means you can't swap the pet directly on yourself for an easy follow-up after CCing someone. This specific class issue will translate directly onto this spec. And potentially be even worse, depending on what it wants to do. Damage through the pet is wonky enough as it is one core.

You wanna make a point out of how this is a general class issue. Yeah? Congrats on figuring that out. Doesn't make this spec more enticing from the initial look.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Xanadrine.4352]

Ill be happy if this gives you more control over a pet with empower swapping back and forth. Looks like the pet wont just be a side but part of your arsenal like there will be commands on the F buttons, that will make me so happy. I was not happy with hammer ranger when they showed it, but now im more accepting if we actually get this empower. 

[Obtena.7952]

 

13 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

And because it clearly wasn't obvious to you, the keep dreaming part was not about how a ranger can deal with moving targets. 

Except that is what is relevant to the discussion here. Even implying moving targets is a pet-specific problem is not acknowledging the toolset of the class at large. I guess it hasn't even occurred to you that there is design intent behind pet movement and and target interaction as Anet have introduced both ranged and melee pets. I suppose recognizing these realities doesn't fit the narrative for a pet-less ranger spec does it?

Again, Anet has given Rangers options to address moving targets, EVEN for pets. You just don't want to acknowledge the limitations as a pet class around whatever issues you have aren't intended design. If those issues, even with the methods available to address them as a class, are not acceptable to you, you have options. 

As for Untamed, it seems to me that even from the short video, the swapping feature along with the implied CC capabilities of the hammer indicate a potentially capable competitive spec. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lazze.9870]

9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except that is what is relevant to the discussion here. I mean, even implying this is a pet-specific problem is not acknowledging the toolset of the class at large. I guess it hasn't even occurred to you that there is intent there as we have both ranged and melee pets. I suppose recognizing these realities doesn't fit the narrative for a pet-less ranger spec does it?

I knew this was coming. Gonna hit me what that "toolset" argument. Spoken like a "player" that spends more time on the forums than in the actual game.

You're so out of depth it's not even funny anymore.

I never said it wasn't gonna have potential in competetive game modes. It's gonna have potential. As a sidenoder. Just like core. Just like druid. Just like soulbeast. Oh boy what fun we're gonna have.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Xukavi.4320]

11 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's really easy to do when those people imply things like Ranger doesn't have ways to address moving targets 🤷‍♂️Plus you got no idea how much experience I have with anything. 

Again, we DON'T know how pet pathing is affected in this spec until we play it. It's a GENERAL class issue and for all we know, it could be addressed somehow, like it was with melded Soulbeast. 

I don't see how anything he had said implied that Rangers have no way with dealing with moving targets. I don't know how long you've been playing GW2 and I mean no disrespect to you but as someone who played GW2 from the betas and had Ranger as a main for quite some time I can tell you pet issues have been there since day 1.

The issue as its been stated is the wonkiness of pet. Whether that is in its pathing to to the target or its attack animations that can be slow which end up easily missing the target if its moving. Can the Ranger CC the target in order to make the pet hit the target a bit easier? Sure. But then you're basically saying that the ranger should be using their CC so their own class mechanic can function properly and hit its targets.

Now based on the teaser we got, narration literally pointed out how the Untamed uses some sort of empowering magic that switches between the pet and the Ranger. We even got to see what looks like some sort of new empowered attack from the pet. It was even pointed out how the Ranger uses the hammer to CC enemies while the empowered pet deals enhanced attacks. Then when the empowering magic buff goes to the Ranger you can use some big finisher moves. This whole process will still suffer from the pet's issues, it can't reach the target and it can miss its attacks if the target moves. Sure this is why the hammer has CC to make sure the target stays still but good luck with that in anything other than PvE. This is a core Ranger issue and now the Untamed is moving even more damage on the pet that's unreliable. Its highly unlikely that they'll give Untamed new pet AI because to be quite frank they had might as well just give it to core Ranger which they haven't done ever since release even though pretty much every Ranger had been complaining about it.