Alec B.8905 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Soulbeast has the option to use base pet skills and their merge skills. that makes no sense why they shouldn't get toolbelt skills when not using the golem. so many traits and skills lose synergy without the toolbelt skills and entire trait lines get killed because of no toolbelt and multiple kits lose core parts of them without the toolbelt. I would like to see the toolbelt at least there when not using the mech. Everything else seems fair and fun but I need that toolbelt. 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Because Anet's designers were just focusing on the theme of the spec without thinking about it's functionality. Just like (once again) all the traits we get deal with the mechanic (mecha) in some way. This spec is just there to please some roleplayers, but it will have absolutely no place in any game environment in which you actually try to accomplish something. 8 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 What exactly would we lose that we don't gain by having the pet active? And why would you play the spec without the pet active? 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, iKeostuKen.2738 said: What exactly would we lose that we don't gain by having the pet active? And why would you play the spec without the pet active? Toolbelt holds 27 different skills you can put on your bar. Many of them hold important functionalities like: stunbreak, heals (med kit becomes absolutely unusable with mechanist), many VERY hard hitting skills like grenade barrage, boon emoval, condi cleanse, etc. The removal of toolbelt is the hardest trade off we have ever seen on any class. The removal of a dodge for mirage is laughable against this, I would take this any day over the removal of toolbelt. 4 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec B.8905 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 All of your f abilities -incendiary ammo -elixir gun stun break -throw elixirs (which is half the reason to run elixirs) -med kit heal - turret fields -GRENADE BARRAGE -all of the gadget f1's which are the only reasons to use them -all of your elite skill f1 these are huge for engi play 6 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santenal.1054 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Alec B.8905 said: All of your f abilities -incendiary ammo -elixir gun stun break -throw elixirs (which is half the reason to run elixirs) -med kit heal - turret fields -GRENADE BARRAGE -all of the gadget f1's which are the only reasons to use them -all of your elite skill f1 these are huge for engi play They clearly weren't thinking, when they decided to remove the toolbelt skills . Who comes up with ideas as bad as this? Edited October 22, 2021 by santenal.1054 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: Toolbelt holds 27 different skills you can put on your bar. Many of them hold important functionalities like: stunbreak, heals (med kit becomes absolutely unusable with mechanist), many VERY hard hitting skills like grenade barrage, boon emoval, condi cleanse, etc. The removal of toolbelt is the hardest trade off we have ever seen on any class. The removal of a dodge for mirage is laughable against this, I would take this any day over the removal of toolbelt. 27 skills? Half are never taken because the core abilities their associated with are not viable to take in many builds. If you want to run with the same skills then why even be a mech? The objective of the spec is to always have your pet up and functioning. Are you going to deactivate your pet for a stunbreak? for a heal? We have other abilities we can take that compensate for that. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanadrine.4352 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 What if there is a toolbelt, its just different tools. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoosh.2718 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Don't some heals also rely on the F-Keys to actually heal you as well? Id say there is going to be some reworking done on this, no way will this pass as is for the toolbelt. Mech wise, It does look like an enjoyable mech to use with some interesting plays that could be done with it. However you are heavily limited by your weapon options if you plan to run Mace (same goes to thief as well due to the new weapons mechanic tie in to the elite spec.) Admitivly you may find the mech to be more useful than the tool belt in some circumstances, for PvP the ranged version will honestly be a nightmare to fight against as the player will be able to use some kits to break blocks, pulling them in and the mech going ham at the same time, then again if the mech is taking stats from the player, zerker stats will make it die very quickly. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 "Tradeoffs"(TM) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 people got pissed that revenant only could use 1 weapon set and they changed it so this to me is kind of strange 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatyrGustav.6210 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Toolbelt removal is fine. You get different skills in place of the toolbelt as well as an auto attack. I also need to add that, the mech skills are wayyyy more POWERFUL than the toolbelt skills. Mechanist will be overpowered if we had both toolbelt and mech tbh. I like the change in playstyle. In essence the mech has better versions of the toolbelt skills. 15 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, MatyrGustav.6210 said: Toolbelt removal is fine. You get different skills in place of the toolbelt as well as an auto attack. I also need to add that, the mech skills are wayyyy more POWERFUL than the toolbelt skills. Mechanist will be overpowered if we had both toolbelt and mech tbh. I like the change in playstyle. In essence the mech has better versions of the toolbelt skills. Seriously this. Its as if they just saw they had no toolbelt and ignored everything else. The traits we gain from having no toolbelt skills is a lot better. Possibly permenant alacrity and barrier application, in exchange for toolbelt skills that our mech does better. The focus isnt on us this spec, its on our pet. 11 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisii.8317 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 You guys need to chill... We're getting a completely different game style. The auto attacks on the mech are strong as well as the skills. Sure we're giving up the toolbelt skills but we're also gonna be like a two man team, the mech is like another player with that damage it can do (at least from what we've seen, we'll know for sure in the beta). You'll have to play specific builds with the mechanist. If you're going to be like "wHaT aBouT mY sTatiC DiSchaRgE bUiLd" then just don't play the mechanist. 9 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uvirith.9573 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 guys big numbers lol 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santenal.1054 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Kaizoku.1298 said: You guys need to chill... We're getting a completely different game style. The auto attacks on the mech are strong as well as the skills. Sure we're giving up the toolbelt skills but we're also gonna be like a two man team, the mech is like another player with that damage it can do (at least from what we've seen, we'll know for sure in the beta). You'll have to play specific builds with the mechanist. If you're going to be like "wHaT aBouT mY sTatiC DiSchaRgE bUiLd" then just don't play the mechanist. Those damage numbers will get nerfed, what do you have left after that? Edited October 22, 2021 by santenal.1054 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomboed.5697 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 33 minutes ago, MatyrGustav.6210 said: Toolbelt removal is fine. Except it limits already limited (due to poor balance) choice of utility skills, because a lot of them are useful only because of their toolbelt skills. Except everything that pet command skills do can also be done with toolbelt skills, but better. Except you literally loose all those skills when pet dies (and it will die A LOT) and get nothing to compensate. 37 minutes ago, MatyrGustav.6210 said: also need to add that, the mech skills are wayyyy more POWERFUL than the toolbelt skills. Which is not true. Most of them are just damage skills and some cc, that will probably hit like a wet noodle in PvP and WvW. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorddarkflare.9186 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, santenal.1054 said: Those damage numbers will get nerfed real fast, what do you have left after that? I think there is a stronger argument to be made to NOT nerf some of those big numbers because of the size and danger of the penalties. Of all the classes we have see so far, this is the one where keeping the numbers higher makes the most sense because of the sharp drop in overall utility and power. I find it much more likely Anet with do that than reintroduce the toolbelt. Even thought I would prefer that. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejax.5170 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said: Of all the classes we have see so far, this is the one where keeping the numbers higher makes the most sense because of the sharp drop in overall utility and power. I share this thought. For this thing to be at all relevant in a competitive setting, the mech needs to be way over tuned in dmg and utility. Otherwise, the tradeoffs that come along with the spec simply make it not worth playing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorddarkflare.9186 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, ejax.5170 said: I share this thought. For this thing to be at all relevant in a competitive setting, the mech needs to be way over tuned in dmg and utility. Otherwise, the tradeoffs that come along with the spec simply make it not worth playing. Yup. This is why I am not doom-and-gloomy yet. IF the entire thing works next week as it is, our RESOUNDING feedback needs to be about keeping the numbers healthy. If it turns out to play really poorly, then yeah, we may need the toolbelt back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azarhal.3086 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 I think the reason is that the Mech F skills are considered toolbelt skills as they interact with the related traits. So the actual trade-off is that the toolbelt skill are now based on the Mech's "loadout" (trait selection) and that they belong to the Mech so only available when it is summoned. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorddarkflare.9186 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, azarhal.3086 said: I think the reason is that the Mech F skills are considered toolbelt skills as they interact with the related traits. So the actual trade-off is that the toolbelt skill are now based on the Mech's "loadout" (trait selection) and that they belong to the Mech so only available when it is summoned. That is very insightful. I think you are correct. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpsssss.7530 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) I think Anet design team needs to go back and learn about WHY each class and skills within each class work. Between This making certain skills basically not worth using (Severely limiting build options) because they need toolbelt to be good is no good. Its the same deal with the Harbinger Elixirs. Elixirs work on Engi because they have toolbelt skills. Why would I lower my health by 10% and dump a 30 second cooldown for 2 boons that'll just get corrupted outside of PvE. Elixirs are boring AF w/o tool belt toss for some level of engagement. At least the signets look cool... Edited October 22, 2021 by jpsssss.7530 clarification 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said: people got pissed that revenant only could use 1 weapon set and they changed it so this to me is kind of strange Because Revenant didn't have kits nor choices in utilities unlike Ele and Engineer... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, santenal.1054 said: Those damage numbers will get nerfed, what do you have left after that? The utility. It still has utility alongside what the engineers have remaining. Yeah toolbelt skills are powerful, but so is the mech. Its a trade off. Skills that rely on the toolbelt to be effective in the first place isn't ideal which is why Healing Kit went through many iterations. You just have to learn to use it differently 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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