Cost-Prohibitive to Returning Players

[Rogue.8235]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:55 AM, WelkinDust.8764 said:

FFXIV and SWTOR are even better; I've played both extensively this year for less than $60 total. I suppose some people are rich enough not to care about dropping an extra $100 or whatever on a "free" game; to each their own. I'll just continue playing the aforementioned games and skip this one entirely.

This concept of free games is peculiar.  I find it interesting that gamers have such an aversion to buying video games.  It's one of the only consumer segments in the world that thinks this way.  Actually, thinking about it, I cannot identify any other consumer segment in any other industry that not only despises spending money, but expects market participation to be free of cost.

On 10/25/2021 at 2:55 AM, WelkinDust.8764 said:

Wow. I can't believe so many people are defending this. The fact that this topic has apparently popped up often on these forums tells me that I'm not the only one in this situation; I wonder how many hundreds or thousands of players who might be interested in starting or returning to this game are deterred by the high cost. Shouldn't that concern... anyone? Maybe ArenaNet has enough loyal fanboys dropping hundreds on the game regularly, I dunno.

Defending?  You mean explaining to you that you have to buy things?  What other goods and services do you expect to get for no cost?  Do you do this at the grocery store?  Rent?  Clothes?

On 10/25/2021 at 2:55 AM, WelkinDust.8764 said:

I understand that companies have to make money; most game companies nowadays are shamelessly greedy but that's capitalism for you. My problem is with how much MORE expensive this game is compared to other major MMO titles, especially when this one is so falsely advertised as "free to play." And I'm very disturbed by this tactic of not including half the story with the purchase of the expansion packs -- and especially how they don't specifically tell you about it upfront.

Honest question.  Do you think all companies are greedy across all industries?  Or just video game companies?

On 10/25/2021 at 2:55 AM, WelkinDust.8764 said:

Compare to WoW for example: sure, they have a monthly subscription and lots of people hate that. I spent way too much on WoW over more than a decade. But no matter how long you haven't played for, you can buy the current expansion for $40 and have access to the entire game, including all of the story. And just purchasing the expansion gives you 30 days of play time. So even if you need an extra month or two of subscription payments to actually see all the story, it's still way less than the $110 required for purchasing all of the story content in GW2. Not to mention the other 'hidden costs' to this game like needing gems for extra character slots when you start with a pathetic FIVE.

You're comparing the price of an expansion for a game charging a monthly fee to the price of an expansion for a game that does not.  You then discover that these prices are different.  Are we supposed to be shocked?  Of course they are different.  These are two different business models.  Such differentiation will result in different pricing strategies.  

So you'd rather pay a monthly fee and purchase expansions rather than just purchase expansions?  The difference is one is a smaller net cost in one lump sum and the other is a larger cost spread over monthly payments.

I prefer paying a lower net cost in one payment than having to pay into an annuity on top of additional costs.

 

I'm not sure you understand that resources are limited, thus organizations must, in a currency-based economy, ask for money in return for their goods and serves.  No one can afford to just give you stuff for free.

 

Final note, recurrent players got the living world episodes for free and paid for each expansion.

Returning players get expansions for free and pay for the living world episodes.

 

[Debesyla.7102]

(Numbers are from my personal expierence, may differ if you are a slower player and don't use guides.)

• Each expantion is worth to up to 150 hours of content (not counting replays and repeats of map events, etc.) and there are two of those.
• Each living world season is worth up to 100 hours of content and there are three of those.

150x2 + 100x3 = 600 hours of content, not counting replays, repeats of events, core tyria, pvp or wvw.

If we take that everything costs 110 eur and you don't use ingame gold->gems to buy everything instead, that's 18 cents for an hour of entertainement. And you dont need to pay anything every month, you buy it once and play it whenever you want.

Now, please, what other entertainement cost so little? What other MMO? 😉

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

2 hours ago, Debesyla.7102 said:

(Numbers are from my personal expierence, may differ if you are a slower player and don't use guides.)

• Each expantion is worth to up to 150 hours of content (not counting replays and repeats of map events, etc.) and there are two of those.
• Each living world season is worth up to 100 hours of content and there are three of those.

150x2 + 100x3 = 600 hours of content, not counting replays, repeats of events, core tyria, pvp or wvw.

If we take that everything costs 110 eur and you don't use ingame gold->gems to buy everything instead, that's 18 cents for an hour of entertainement. And you dont need to pay anything every month, you buy it once and play it whenever you want.

Now, please, what other entertainement cost so little? What other MMO? 😉

You, and others, forget that $110 (not sure it is even that much) includes End of Dragons; so, add more hours to the hour/cost ratio. 

[Kalocin.5982]

I always find it kind of funny how defensive people get with these threads. It's good value for yourself, you already own the episodes and expansions. Someone wanting to rejoin or play for the first time has a massive barrier to entry. Of course the responses end up just being you missed your free chance so suck it up and pay the dough. Except they don't, won't and will just look elsewhere. 

 

There's too many games already out there, why bother spending so much for an old game with varying levels of quality in the content due to it's age. 

 

It's not about value, it's about perceived value. Someone currently playing will understand that value a lot more than someone who can only understand the price tag. They don't know if they're going to enjoy it enough to warrant the cost. Just because a $400 coffee grinder will last forever and make espresso doesn't mean I suddenly need it to enjoy a cup of coffee.

[Redfeather.6401]

I really find the living story business model and specialization business model to be short-sighted and not good for the game in the long run. ESO has found ways of keeping their game fresh and expanding it and it just works so much better.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Redfeather.6401

[Gibson.4036]

On 10/29/2021 at 9:05 PM, Rogue.8235 said:

This concept of free games is peculiar.  I find it interesting that gamers have such an aversion to buying video games.  It's one of the only consumer segments in the world that thinks this way.  Actually, thinking about it, I cannot identify any other consumer segment in any other industry that not only despises spending money, but expects market participation to be free of cost.

Defending?  You mean explaining to you that you have to buy things?  What other goods and services do you expect to get for no cost? 

 

Readers of news articles. Social media users. Television watchers up until recently. Radio listeners.

I agree with the rest of your points, but many media have had free to consume models in order to sell advertising. It has very much skewed our perception of the worth of these things, unfortunately.

[TrOtskY.5927]

Their whole living story business is a mess, they charge a lot for them but also give them away for free, it really makes little sense.

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, TrOtskY.5927 said:

Their whole living story business is a mess, they charge a lot for them but also give them away for free, it really makes little sense.

It does make sense in terms of loss leaders. Normally, in between expansions, they rely on income from people picking up LW seasons with gems as part of the income. Then, when an expansion is about to come out, they offer them free for a time to get people playing the game, in hopes they'll buy the expansion.

Just like your local grocery store normally charges you for milk and eggs at profit, but occasionally chooses to sell them at loss because they expect you'll pick up other things once you're in the door.

The living world stories also function as loyalty rewards. Already playing the game? Here's a freebie to keep you playing. Like your grocery store might throw a free Thanksgiving turkey at you if you've bought a certain amount of groceries from them.

The only thing that makes this all weird is that it's got a linear story running through it all.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Debesyla.7102]

7 hours ago, TrOtskY.5927 said:

Their whole living story business is a mess, they charge a lot for them but also give them away for free, it really makes little sense.

I guess it is weird that they are so generous... Other MMOs and games would charge you for the new DLC no matter who you are...

[Orack.4825]

Farm gold, get them for free, that what I've done :3

[Vayne.8563]

On 10/31/2021 at 10:25 AM, Kalocin.5982 said:

I always find it kind of funny how defensive people get with these threads. It's good value for yourself, you already own the episodes and expansions. Someone wanting to rejoin or play for the first time has a massive barrier to entry. Of course the responses end up just being you missed your free chance so suck it up and pay the dough. Except they don't, won't and will just look elsewhere. 

 

There's too many games already out there, why bother spending so much for an old game with varying levels of quality in the content due to it's age. 

 

It's not about value, it's about perceived value. Someone currently playing will understand that value a lot more than someone who can only understand the price tag. They don't know if they're going to enjoy it enough to warrant the cost. Just because a $400 coffee grinder will last forever and make espresso doesn't mean I suddenly need it to enjoy a cup of coffee.

People who try the game and immediately move to another game aren't going to keep this game in business anyway.  It's a good value full stop. It's not just a good value if you haven't bought it.

 

It's many expansions and mini expanions for the price of six months of an MMO with a sub or with an optional sub. You're also laboring under the assumption that people don't like this game better than other MMOs for the same price or less, but that's not necessarily the case. Plenty of people have come here from say WoW and were blown away by it. I saw a lot of those posts over the years.  Some people play this MMO because they find it better than other MMOs full stop.

 

This game offers an experience most other MMOs don't offer and some people prefer that experience. A portion of those people (I have several in my guild) will eventually buy all the LS stuff, and will stay with the game longer term.

You make it sound like because something is cheaper everyone will just play that. And sure, some will. Because they don't have a lot of money, or they aren't very discerning in the first place, or they simply like those other games. Other people will pay for something they'll enjoy. I'm one of those.

I can afford any game on the market, and I've subbed to various games for years.  I CHOOSE to play Guild Wars 2 because I feel it's a better game for my play style. Some kid that wants the new shiny and just runs off to the next cheap game isn't going to build this community anyway.

Edit: Typo

Edited November 1, 2021 by Vayne.8563

[Obtena.7952]

23 hours ago, Kalocin.5982 said:

I always find it kind of funny how defensive people get with these threads. It's good value for yourself, you already own the episodes and expansions. Someone wanting to rejoin or play for the first time has a massive barrier to entry.

That doesn't make sense though ... what is this 'massive barrier to entry' related to the game? Are you talking about the option for a new player to play FOR FREE to trial the game before deciding to buy it outright? Or maybe you are talking about the option for a returning player to return at NO COST because they already purchased the game in the past? 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[robertthebard.8150]

On 10/30/2021 at 6:42 PM, Redfeather.6401 said:

I really find the living story business model and specialization business model to be short-sighted and not good for the game in the long run. ESO has found ways of keeping their game fresh and expanding it and it just works so much better.

You mean by requiring a sub to keep the crafting bag, and access to zones?

[Gibson.4036]

At the moment, you can even go from free player to paid core with only the price of one month of Amazon Prime.

Maybe even free if it works with a Prime trial.

[Valfar.3761]

No one is complaining about spending money for content. The problem is that it's not obvious to people who aren't already GW2 players that buying the special edition that includes all of the expansions does not actually get you all of the content. You drop $50 for the End of Dragons combo pack expecting to have gotten everything, and then you boot up the game and after a while you realize that you're still missing half of the content. That's very misleading and it stings. If the GW2 store page also listed a $100 option that included HoT, PoF, EoD, and all living world episodes, then people would be informed about the true nature of GW2's monetization and would have an opportunity to jump in having bought all of the content from the get go, rather than jumping in only knowing half of it.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Valfar.3761 said:

No one is complaining about spending money for content. The problem is that it's not obvious to people who aren't already GW2 players that buying the special edition that includes all of the expansions does not actually get you all of the content. You drop $50 for the End of Dragons combo pack expecting to have gotten everything, and then you boot up the game and after a while you realize that you're still missing half of the content. That's very misleading and it stings. If the GW2 store page also listed a $100 option that included HoT, PoF, EoD, and all living world episodes, then people would be informed about the true nature of GW2's monetization and would have an opportunity to jump in having bought all of the content from the get go, rather than jumping in only knowing half of it.

Some people are complaining about the money.

[Gibson.4036]

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Some people are complaining about the money.

Yes.

These threads always eventually come to a consensus that there could be better communication about the need to buy LW. You’d think that would close the discussion, but it doesn’t. 

Because some just don’t want to have to spend the money

Edited November 2, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[IndigoSundown.5419]

23 hours ago, Valfar.3761 said:

No one is complaining about spending money for content. The problem is that it's not obvious to people who aren't already GW2 players that buying the special edition that includes all of the expansions does not actually get you all of the content. You drop $50 for the End of Dragons combo pack expecting to have gotten everything, and then you boot up the game and after a while you realize that you're still missing half of the content. That's very misleading and it stings. If the GW2 store page also listed a $100 option that included HoT, PoF, EoD, and all living world episodes, then people would be informed about the true nature of GW2's monetization and would have an opportunity to jump in having bought all of the content from the get go, rather than jumping in only knowing half of it.

 

Transparency would certainly transform the complaints of people like the OP.  If ANet did inform people that the interim story content was not part of the XPac fee(s), then the rebuttal to the complaint would be, "It was right there on the page where you bought the game and you didn't read it."  Because you know some people would not see it and complain.

 

Regardless, I believe that transparency is a more consumer-friendly approach to customer relations, and it saddens me when companies choose to obfuscate, intentionally or not. Regardless of ANet's intent, it looks like a ploy even if it isn't.  So, chalk up another "yes" for a bundle deal with the Living Story or at least a caveat on the sales page for EoD/POF/HoT.

[Substance E.4852]

On 10/30/2021 at 6:25 PM, Kalocin.5982 said:

I always find it kind of funny how defensive people get with these threads. It's good value for yourself, you already own the episodes and expansions. Someone wanting to rejoin or play for the first time has a massive barrier to entry.

 

>Massive

The amount this game asks you to pay to access it's entirety is nothing compared to most actual, physical hobbies

I'm no fan of Anet's monetization policy (looking at you $20 mount skins and BLC exclusives) but the actual cost of the game itself is incredibly reasonable if you're someone who sits in front of their PC for hours a day

Steam sales and ad funded youtube content has destroyed people's conception of "good value" when it comes to entertainment