Legendary Armory and Envoy set

[Balmung.7804]

Today, with the legendary armory, players have the facility to share their legendary gear to all characters on their account at the same time.

 

For players who already have any legendary armor (example, PvP or WvW), with one of them there is no need for the player to make more than 1 armor of the same type (example: light PvP and WvW armor) as the bonuses are the same. So if the player wants to use the skins of one of the game modes, just use (or get) tickets and other items in these modes and buy the precursors and those with Mistforged effect to use these skins in its new legendary armory, of course, on equipment legendary.

 

This is now done for PvP and WvW modes, however there is no such feature for the Envoy suite. Is there the possibility of Arena.net creating this feature to buy only the skins from the Envoy sets?

 

Of course, for the player to be able to buy the skins he needs to complete the collection to release the Envoy craft (Envoy armor I and II) and pay 50% of the value compared to the full set, for example: if the cost to make an Envoy set is at 300 LIs, so to buy just the skins the player will need 150 LIs.

 

I think this idea would be cool to attract more players to raids, especially those who just want armor skins because they already have legendary sets whether in PvP or WvW. Or putting this feature in Strike Missions, well, that's also an idea.

[Balmung.7804]

Remembering a detail: Having the Skin does not entitle you to earn the achievement of crafting Envoy sets.

Another detail: Wouldn't it be nice to add the achievement of the same level for players who unlock the Glorius Hero or Thriumphant set(s) just like they do in Envoy?

Because the work of making these armors in both PvP and WvW is also time consuming and expensive.

[Infusion.7149]

See

TL;DR: the only way it would be equitable is if there's a way to get Envoy skin without making the legendary armor itself (i.e. akin to PVP/WVW) or if PVP/WVW legendary has a new tier skin

Edited November 7, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Cyninja.2954]

I'd much rather prefer Spvp and WvW legendary armor got a unique skin, just like every other legendary item has, instead of dropping PvE Raid armor to ascended tier.

 

It would give far more meaning to players who made Spvp/WvW legendary armor and would even "solve" the problem of players creating multiple legendary armor pieces from different modes.

 

To be clear: the inconsistency here is not that perfected envoy armor armor has a unique skin (pve raid legendary). It is that Spvp and WvW have none. Better to fix the inconsistency than add more to the game.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Omega.6801]

Not sure if I get what you say but it feels like ti falls into the "want the thing, you gotta do the thing"-category of threads.

[Cuks.8241]

Prepare for the hate :P

Anyway I don't think this will ever happen. Envoy skins are unique in the amount of detail and animation and I think plenty of players went for the armor just for cool skins. Especially before legendary armory.

I would also disagree. Want the armor/skin? Overcome the barrier like everyone before you.

[kharmin.7683]

10 hours ago, Balmung.7804 said:

I think this idea would be cool to attract more players to raids, especially those who just want armor skins because they already have legendary sets whether in PvP or WvW. Or putting this feature in Strike Missions, well, that's also an idea.

Players who want these skins are probably already involved in the modes that are required.  I don't see this as being the incentive to bring others into raiding as you suggest.  IMO, there are many other things that must change about raids in order to increase participation.  This idea is not one of them.

[Moradorin.6217]

16 hours ago, Balmung.7804 said:

Today, with the legendary armory, players have the facility to share their legendary gear to all characters on their account at the same time.

 

For players who already have any legendary armor (example, PvP or WvW), with one of them there is no need for the player to make more than 1 armor of the same type (example: light PvP and WvW armor) as the bonuses are the same. So if the player wants to use the skins of one of the game modes, just use (or get) tickets and other items in these modes and buy the precursors and those with Mistforged effect to use these skins in its new legendary armory, of course, on equipment legendary.

 

This is now done for PvP and WvW modes, however there is no such feature for the Envoy suite. Is there the possibility of Arena.net creating this feature to buy only the skins from the Envoy sets?

 

Of course, for the player to be able to buy the skins he needs to complete the collection to release the Envoy craft (Envoy armor I and II) and pay 50% of the value compared to the full set, for example: if the cost to make an Envoy set is at 300 LIs, so to buy just the skins the player will need 150 LIs.

 

I think this idea would be cool to attract more players to raids, especially those who just want armor skins because they already have legendary sets whether in PvP or WvW. Or putting this feature in Strike Missions, well, that's also an idea.

Yes I agree I posted in the other thread that Infusion already linked about this topic and how it could be resolved/balanced. That is, how legendary armor and skin system could be balanced. It seems to have at least 2 possible solutions: 1) make the perfected envoy skins available somehow without crafting legendary armor( balance cost and requirements and skins shouldnt count toward collection/title) or option 2) Give all WvW/PvP armor a skin upgrade when that is unlocked from crafting each piece. This would have an added complication due to pvp/wvw allowing both mistforged and non-mistforged to be upgraded to legendary.

 

Most players seem to agree its an issue. Some will throw things though for even suggesting this. In the other thread it got fairly heated but in the end no one actually had a good argument against once things like titles, cost, and all other requirements got well defined to avoid creating an easier path so people arent getting things for less work/cost than others. That said, at present everyone who makes pvp/wvw legendary or did before the armory are already paying a significant amount more if they want to get all the skins compared to anyone who happened to make raid legendary before the armory and now can just unlock the other pvp/wvw without crafting anything else for a significant savings and allot less work. 😉

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/97806-i-feel-screwed-over-by-the-legendary-armory-merged/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-1429129

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Yes I agree I posted in the other thread that Infusion already linked about this topic and how it could be resolved/balanced. That is, how legendary armor and skin system could be balanced. It seems to have at least 2 possible solutions: 1) make the perfected envoy skins available somehow without crafting legendary armor( balance cost and requirements and skins shouldnt count toward collection/title) or option 2) Give all WvW/PvP armor a skin upgrade when that is unlocked from crafting each piece. This would have an added complication due to pvp/wvw allowing both mistforged and non-mistforged to be upgraded to legendary.

 

Most players seem to agree its an issue. Some will throw things though for even suggesting this. In the other thread it got fairly heated but in the end no one actually had a good argument against once things like titles, cost, and all other requirements got well defined to avoid creating an easier path so people arent getting things for less work/cost than others. That said, at present everyone who makes pvp/wvw legendary or did before the armory are already paying a significant amount more if they want to get all the skins compared to anyone who happened to make raid legendary before the armory and now can just unlock the other pvp/wvw without crafting anything else for a significant savings and allot less work. 😉

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/97806-i-feel-screwed-over-by-the-legendary-armory-merged/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-1429129

 

Yes and people knew that before they upgraded their ascended wvw to legendary wvw armors.

They knew they would have had to do a second legendary to get the pve skin even back then.

And still they made their wvw legendary armor instead of unlocking the ascended skins and then going into raids.

 

So no wvw and spvp people dont use any more materials now then they did before legendary armory if they want both wvw/spvp and pve skins.

 

Edit

Just because some people now feel it was a bad choice and I agree it was and still is in my oppinion.

But you made it.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes and people knew that before they upgraded their ascended wvw to legendary wvw armors.

They knew they would have had to do a second legendary to get the pve skin even back then.

And still they made their wvw legendary armor instead of unlocking the ascended skins and then going into raids.

 

So no wvw and spvp people dont use any more materials now then they did before legendary armory if they want both wvw/spvp and pve skins.

 

Edit

Just because some people now feel it was a bad choice and I agree it was and still is in my oppinion.

But you made it.

You are either attempting to side step the facts or are misrepresenting them. This was all debated in the other thread. I dont expect it to change. I dont expect Anet to address it. However, that does not change the fact that Legendary armor has a serious Imbalance that penalizes anyone who chooses to make pvp/wvw armor first and your view assumes people even are aware of this issue to be able to consider pior to crafting legendary armor. I myself never originally planned to make legendary armor. After spending allot of time playing pvp and wvw I, like others, found myself with allot of Ascended Shards, Skermish Tickets, and Mystic Clovers and a few years ago we still had frequent balance. Well I got tired of making more ascended sets and all that and noticed I had enough stuff to make a set of armor so I did. Later I again found I had materials to make more armor, but this time from raids. I now have 3 sets of legendary armor. One is from raids, two are not. Maybe without the armory I eventually would have crafted more raid armor to put on alts and get the skins. Now thanks to the armory I dont need to do that to gear out my alts, however, it also brings to light differences between raid armor and pvp/wvw armor that was not apparent when I began crafting my armor. Furthermore, the armory wasnt planed or rumored back then so it wasnt even the same situation. So while you find it easy to dismiss I find your viewpoint invalid and callous.

 

I think its obvious that legendary armor between the 3 game modes had a rather serious imbalance that the armory has made more acute. As myself and others have said many times seem to have a few simple solutions. Your argument doesn't seem acount for the fact that one modes legendary skins arent obtainable without crafting while the other 2 modes are in any way. This is an imbalance that your assertions do not dismiss.

 

In case its not clear somehow. What I am saying is your argument: 

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Edit

Just because some people now feel it was a bad choice and I agree it was and still is in my oppinion.

But you made it.

makes the asumption that someone made the choice in the first place. That everyone somehow magically knows all of this before crafting legedary armor which is totally false. Therefore, the argument itself is invalid.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Moradorin.6217]

What we are suggesting is either:

A) A unique skin set be given to compensate pvp/wvw sets for the imbalance created by the armory to properly reward people for the actual gold investment of doing the legendary upgrades with pvp/wvw armor.

OR

B) A new puchase path be created to obtain Perfected Envoy Skins Similar to how PvP and WvW mistforged skins can be obtained without crafting armor. Suggested Method = Require the Envoy 1+ 2 collections be completed, require all the same materials needed to craft the legendary minus the non-time gated gold purchasable items used in the Gift of Prosperity ONLY.

 

In other words, "to buy a skin" I suggest the person DOES NEED all LI, Prov tokens, Chak Eggs, yada, yada, yada, BUT NOT the clovers, and T6 materials. Therefore, your entire argument that says: ( ref. quote)

[Linken.6345]

7 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

What we are suggesting is either:

A) A unique skin set be given to compensate pvp/wvw sets for the imbalance created by the armory to properly reward people for the actual gold investment of doing the legendary upgrades with pvp/wvw armor.

OR

B) A new puchase path be created to obtain Perfected Envoy Skins Similar to how PvP and WvW mistforged skins can be obtained without crafting armor. Suggested Method = Require the Envoy 1+ 2 collections be completed, require all the same materials needed to craft the legendary minus the non-time gated gold purchasable items used in the Gift of Prosperity ONLY.

 

In other words, "to buy a skin" I suggest the person DOES NEED all LI, Prov tokens, Chak Eggs, yada, yada, yada, BUT NOT the clovers, and T6 materials. Therefore, your entire argument that says: ( ref. quote)

Yes but it was like this even before the armory.

You could buy the wvw, spvp skins without upgrading them to legendary and then go for pve legendary armors.

Or you do both spvp/wvw legendary and pve legendary armors.

(people did this, like they did with multiple copper/silver-fed salvageomatics before shared inventorty slots instead of moving it bettwen characters through the bank.)

It is the same now as it was way back when.

Just because now you can use your wvw legendary on all toons with the same weight.

Dont just suddenly change who you aquired the skins of said armors before or even now. 

[Moradorin.6217]

46 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes but it was like this even before the armory.

You could buy the wvw, spvp skins without upgrading them to legendary and then go for pve legendary armors.

Or you do both spvp/wvw legendary and pve legendary armors.

(people did this, like they did with multiple copper/silver-fed salvageomatics before shared inventorty slots instead of moving it bettwen characters through the bank.)

It is the same now as it was way back when.

Just because now you can use your wvw legendary on all toons with the same weight.

Dont just suddenly change who you aquired the skins of said armors before or even now. 

No but it did suddenly bring the imbalance to light and make it more obvious which is evident by the fact that this topic keeps coming to mind to different people and getting posted here. This is at least the 3rd time this has become a hot topic.

The fact is it was and is an imbalance and seems to go against the premise that people can progress in the game which ever mode they choose to play since pvp/wvw "legendary" skins can be purchased as skins while the 3rd type of legendary armor has no such skin procurement method.

We can go in circles but it doesnt change the facts. Again I dont expect a change but part of my does hope that some day the skin procurement between the 3 is balanced or that the pvp/wvw armor finally gets a redo to give it a unique legendary skin set(s).

Also before anyone tries to counter that those that made multiple legendary armor sets of the same type before the armory it has already been proposed that the material difference should be returned to anyone who would end upbing otherwise shorted if the perfected envoy skins did become obtainable as skins like wvw/pvp armor.

 

*Gives that dead horse another swift kick in the gut!*

[draxynnic.3719]

14 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

What we are suggesting is either:

A) A unique skin set be given to compensate pvp/wvw sets for the imbalance created by the armory to properly reward people for the actual gold investment of doing the legendary upgrades with pvp/wvw armor.

OR

B) A new puchase path be created to obtain Perfected Envoy Skins Similar to how PvP and WvW mistforged skins can be obtained without crafting armor. Suggested Method = Require the Envoy 1+ 2 collections be completed, require all the same materials needed to craft the legendary minus the non-time gated gold purchasable items used in the Gift of Prosperity ONLY.

 

In other words, "to buy a skin" I suggest the person DOES NEED all LI, Prov tokens, Chak Eggs, yada, yada, yada, BUT NOT the clovers, and T6 materials. Therefore, your entire argument that says: ( ref. quote)

This is pretty much my thought - if you've already got PvP or WvW legendary unlocked for that piece, make it so you can get the PvE skins by ONLY spending the unique materials needed for the PvE skins (LIs, tokens, HoT materials, and so on), but not the gifts of blood/bones/fangs/etc, the stabilised dark energy, and other materials that are generic to all legendary armour. That'd make it equivalent to the PvP and WvW skins that can be unlocked without spending grandmaster tokens if you don't need the extra set of Ascended.

[Moradorin.6217]

 

3 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

three times a hot topic on a game forum...wow, that's a lot of times. That must mean the majority of the player base is behind this. /sarcasm

Three thread since armory release that become have/will each become 11+ pages long is fairly significant considering how few even have legendary armory and many only have envoy and, therefore, many aren't impacted by the balance and its only been a few months. In other words, it has been a hot topic thread pretty much the entire time. Each time a new person has come to the realization that Legendary armor procurement is inconsistent only after crafting some legendary armor and learning they have been screwed if they prefered playing either pvp/wvw early on and then chose to use those resources to craft armor. 

Also the point of mentioning it was a hot topic to show that's its been talked about and debated pretty extensively and is still obviously a topic people have strong views about. I was also hoping people would look on that thread to save anyone needing to repost each talking point for each perspective.

Anyway, thanks for the sideways comment. It helps keep the topic alive. 😉

 

 

Also your comment doesnt actually add anything or give a few point to the OP.

[Moradorin.6217]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

This is pretty much my thought - if you've already got PvP or WvW legendary unlocked for that piece, make it so you can get the PvE skins by ONLY spending the unique materials needed for the PvE skins (LIs, tokens, HoT materials, and so on), but not the gifts of blood/bones/fangs/etc, the stabilised dark energy, and other materials that are generic to all legendary armour. That'd make it equivalent to the PvP and WvW skins that can be unlocked without spending grandmaster tokens if you don't need the extra set of Ascended.

That is my prefered option too since I already crafted 3 sets of legendary armor and wont make more sets of legendary armor at the present cost JUST for the other skins Im missing.

If that is too objectionable I would also be happy to at least get an actual legendary skin set for the pvp/wvw legendary armor.

 

Again, Im not holding my breath for this to be fixed, but its an obvious and significant reward imbalance of what I would consider the top endgame reward (legendary armor)

[Moradorin.6217]

I now raid on a few accounts. I may eventually make 3 sets of perfected envoy armor on my alt account so I can have the skins Im missing. TBH that would be efficient use of the materials anyway since the armor would reduce the benefit of extra sets on my main account to be only a gain of skin unlocks. However, if I go ahead and make 2-3 sets of legenary armor on my alt account I am using the exact same cost and materials but then I have an entire other account geared in legendary armor for every class. Muahahaha. Yes, this imbalance is that exactly stupid bad.

 

Granted I would have the skins on another account, but also gain all the extra function on a 2nd account. 😉

Edited November 8, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Excursion.9752]

While I understand where you are coming from and the request does make logical sense. You seem to be forgetting one thing...

This game has no shortage of players that want you to suffer as they did. 

I personally have almost enough LI to complete my sets but the cost of materials is stopping me. Since I have those sets via pvp and wvw so its a pretty costly price to pay for a skin. But if I want it that's what I have to do.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Envoy armor is the only legendary set in the game, they are the only sets that advance the legendary armor achievement. The other 5 sets have legendary characteristics, but not legendary status. Similar to how the emperor title works, you have to pay full price to get their effects.

[Moradorin.6217]

17 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Envoy armor is the only legendary set in the game, they are the only sets that advance the legendary armor achievement. The other 5 sets have legendary characteristics, but not legendary status. Similar to how the emperor title works, you have to pay full price to get their effects.

If you are saying that the PvP and WvW legendary armor sets are in effect Ascended Armor with Armory enabled unlike Evoy Armor which is actual Legendary armor. Then I would have to agree. At this point that is the most factually accurate way of describing WvW/PvP Legendary Armor. The big issue is that WvW/PvP costs just as much to craft and in the case of WvW also costs more and takes much longer to get the materials required due to hard weekly time gates. That is all three sets are purple all 3 sets work in the armory and can have stats and runes changed on the fly, but only one (envoy) has a Unique Legendary skin set. I think this confuses allot of people, but I agree.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

i'll be honest... i originally thought that the Mistforged versions of the PvP and WvW armor (with the glowy effects) were going to be the legendary version of the armor only, that the NON-glowy-effect-armor would be the precursor, and then only by forging the armor via mistic forge recipe would upgrade to the shiny visuals.

 

however, i would NOT be opposed to there being a new Legendary skin for PvP and WvW modes that would expand on details and/ or glowy effects

[Linken.6345]

6 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

If you are saying that the PvP and WvW legendary armor sets are in effect Ascended Armor with Armory enabled unlike Evoy Armor which is actual Legendary armor. Then I would have to agree. At this point that is the most factually accurate way of describing WvW/PvP Legendary Armor. The big issue is that WvW/PvP costs just as much to craft and in the case of WvW also costs more and takes much longer to get the materials required due to hard weekly time gates. That is all three sets are purple all 3 sets work in the armory and can have stats and runes changed on the fly, but only one (envoy) has a Unique Legendary skin set. I think this confuses allot of people, but I agree.

That is correct it was added since spvp and wvw people asked for a way to legendary armor and dident care about skins they wanted it quick.

Remember it took them 2 years to make the pve armor skins since they restarted from scratch after 1 year.

Find it odd that they never used the transforming armor tech anywere else after tho.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 11/8/2021 at 11:57 PM, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Envoy armor is the only legendary set in the game, they are the only sets that advance the legendary armor achievement. The other 5 sets have legendary characteristics, but not legendary status. Similar to how the emperor title works, you have to pay full price to get their effects.

Yes, precisely. That is the root of the issue we're talking here. WvW and SPvP sets are classified as legendaries, have QoL of legendaries and cost as much as other legendaries, but are deprived of the other legendary feature - legendary skin. Basically, they are incomplete legendaries that are still priced as if they were real ones. As such, the real way to fix the problem would be to give them their own, unique, legendary skins. But the other method of achieving parity with the envoy set (a method of obtaining envoy skins at a reduced price, comparable to how it currently is in both PvP modes) would work as well.

[Balmung.7804]

So, in case I didn't come up with the mechanics, bugs and other problems of raids, I'm talking about the aesthetic requirement only.

Another case is, the vision of legendary equipment has changed a lot since the launch of the legendary arsenal, as some players who previously didn't find it so useful to have a legendary equipment today have already changed their minds due to the ease of sharing.

 

The reason for the topic is simple: to share an idea so that maybe the anet sees a possibility that players who already have legendary gear have at least a chance of having a PvE armor skin (for example) without having to make armor again of no use since the legendary arsenal does not give any benefit to those who have the same type of armor 3 or more times understand?

 

The player can only unlock a skin since he completed a set of the sent (collection 1 and 2), but he didn't get to do any because he already has the legendary ones in PvP or WvW.

 

I don't want to create any kind of hatred or things like that in those who made the Envoy collection, because I have the complete collection (and the chest to choose the precursor) and also the LIs needed to make all 3, I just don't see the need because I have the 3 Mistforged from and would just like to have the armor skins from PvE, as well as the ones I got from WvW as well.

[Linken.6345]

6 minutes ago, Balmung.7804 said:

So, in case I didn't come up with the mechanics, bugs and other problems of raids, I'm talking about the aesthetic requirement only.

Another case is, the vision of legendary equipment has changed a lot since the launch of the legendary arsenal, as some players who previously didn't find it so useful to have a legendary equipment today have already changed their minds due to the ease of sharing.

 

The reason for the topic is simple: to share an idea so that maybe the anet sees a possibility that players who already have legendary gear have at least a chance of having a PvE armor skin (for example) without having to make armor again of no use since the legendary arsenal does not give any benefit to those who have the same type of armor 3 or more times understand?

 

The player can only unlock a skin since he completed a set of the sent (collection 1 and 2), but he didn't get to do any because he already has the legendary ones in PvP or WvW.

 

I don't want to create any kind of hatred or things like that in those who made the Envoy collection, because I have the complete collection (and the chest to choose the precursor) and also the LIs needed to make all 3, I just don't see the need because I have the 3 Mistforged from and would just like to have the armor skins from PvE, as well as the ones I got from WvW as well.

Still this was always the case unless you did pve first you had to do 2 times legendary to get all the skins.

Nothing have changed so what is the reason for this change?