Is Warrior really this squishy?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, artharon.9276 said:

 

This is unnecesary, warrior mains need some healthy conversations, number of people that actually care about the class is already thin so I wouldn't recommend annoying anybody that contributes with builds, balance and theory, no matter what. 

I don't want to sound like a kitten, but kitten are we the most civilized sub.

[Mesket.5728]

1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I don't want to sound like a kitten, but kitten are we the most civilized sub.

every long term warrior is handled a monocle and a cane

Edited November 19, 2021 by Mesket.5728

[artharon.9276]

1 hour ago, Mesket.5728 said:

every long term warrior is handled a monocle and a cane

Some people prefer those over happy meal toys. 

[Broxxgar.6801]

My last WvW :

35k HP

3k+ Power

3k+ Armor

I don't remember if I could put 40k of HP. But everything was working good.
 

[Apolo.5942]

Right now i would venture, warrior is the squishiest class except may be for thief.

[Broxxgar.6801]

On 11/19/2021 at 9:32 PM, Broxxgar.6801 said:

My last WvW :

35k HP

3k+ Power

3k+ Armor

I don't remember if I could put 40k of HP. But everything was working good.
 

Just to point that I can achieve this without buffs.

With buffs depend on the war spec I can achieve (more themr 5k of Power) edited here because I had to check.

So if you found me playing with this build and gear, beware to not be using the berseker gear, because I will hit you hard and you gonna cry, and won't understand what happened. Better bring a lot of CC,blind,blocks ...., because when it end you gonna cry again.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

4 hours ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

Just to point that I can achieve this without buffs.

With buffs depend on the war spec I can achieve (more themr 5k of Power) edited here because I had to check.

So if you found me playing with this build and gear, beware to not be using the berseker gear, because I will hit you hard and you gonna cry, and won't understand what happened. Better bring a lot of CC,blind,blocks ...., because when it end you gonna cry again.

That's impressive. Would you mind sharing your build?

[Broxxgar.6801]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

That's impressive. Would you mind sharing your build?

I will put a rifle build as soon as I finish the Rifle Build for Spellbreaker that is under heavy test. But take note that some people here know the build out there.

[Broxxgar.6801]

@CalmTheStorm.2364

Just to say that is possible, I'm not using the correct runes right now, but just to ensure you that you can achive even better numbers:

https://i.imgur.com/PDDOSWI.jpg

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:28 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

What are you on about?

I had an accurate response to that, but a Mod disagreed with me 🤣 

On 11/17/2021 at 11:28 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

Proper communication requires using the correct terminology, bringing that up is an appropriate part of a discussion like this. Everyone needs to be on the same page when it comes to terms, otherwise people will just talk past each other and talk about different things.

Thank Kodama, some people just don't want to listen though and want to remain ignorant.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

@CalmTheStorm.2364

Just to say that is possible, I'm not using the correct runes right now, but just to ensure you that you can achive even better numbers:

https://i.imgur.com/PDDOSWI.jpg

 

Not really an issue about stats though Brox. I can pump out a 4.9k power build with high HP and toughness the issue is that even with that there are specs that can eat it alive because warrior was given fewer active defenses to mitigate damage than other classes outside of shield block and a few stances.

[Joxer.6024]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Not really an issue about stats though Brox. I can pump out a 4.9k power build with high HP and toughness the issue is that even with that there are specs that can eat it alive because warrior was given fewer active defenses to mitigate damage than other classes outside of shield block and a few stances.

Which is just silly design wise...I can see why War mains or those who just want to enjoy the class (me) are upset.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Joxer.6024 said:

Which is just silly design wise...I can see why War mains or those who just want to enjoy the class (me) are upset.

I'll just refer you back to @Blood Red Arachnid.2493's breakdown, though they forgot about Raptor Engage 😉

Warrior in PvE is really burst it all down before it can burst you. Honestly it's kind of the same in WvW. If I need a breather I just CC my opponent or use a movement skill to open the game and pop a heal. But the easiest way to get that breather is to force the opponent to kite, evade, or turtle somehow. But that isn't defense per se, its just counter pressuring the target.

[Joxer.6024]

7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'll just refer you back to @Blood Red Arachnid.2493's breakdown, though they forgot about Raptor Engage 😉

Warrior in PvE is really burst it all down before it can burst you. Honestly it's kind of the same in WvW. If I need a breather I just CC my opponent or use a movement skill to open the game and pop a heal. But the easiest way to get that breather is to force the opponent to kite, evade, or turtle somehow. But that isn't defense per se, its just counter pressuring the target.

And yet Rev got Battle Scars!!?? Who was responsible for that one....total burn to others.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Joxer.6024 said:

And yet Rev got Battle Scars!!?? Who was responsible for that one....total burn to others.

Well they have Shiro as a legend and that traitline is his, so it's in theme.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'm not going to begrudge another class having the tools it needs to survive, I will begrudge the lack of effective tools on warrior.

[Broxxgar.6801]

6 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Not really an issue about stats though Brox. I can pump out a 4.9k power build with high HP and toughness the issue is that even with that there are specs that can eat it alive because warrior was given fewer active defenses to mitigate damage than other classes outside of shield block and a few stances.

I know the issue that you are claiming here on the forum. But look on any War spec on other games, if you play a 2hand weapon like Hammer and GS you must have a High HP, STR,ARMOR but slow speed and agility. Your critical need to be low too but you normal dmg is high and you critical from another world. Those low armor and HP broke War on PvP, because we can't mitigate the dmg. With the high HP and Toughness that I show on the pic WvW, with a good healer and myself sustain I can take a lot of dmg from different source at once and send a monster dmg to them.

I was looking for a specific class infos here but couldn't find, seems that their website is broken for while. I will take a time to show the correctly description what Warrior 2Hand  should be and you gonna see  why  Arena Net is breaking the Warrior.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

I know the issue that you are claiming here on the forum. But look on any War spec on other games, if you play a 2hand weapon like Hammer and GS you must have a High HP, STR,ARMOR but slow speed and agility. Your critical need to be low too but you normal dmg is high and you critical from another world. Those low armor and HP broke War on PvP, because we can't mitigate the dmg. With the high HP and Toughness that I show on the pic WvW, with a good healer and myself sustain I can take a lot of dmg from different source at once and send a monster dmg to them.

I was looking for a specific class infos here but couldn't find, seems that their website is broken for while. I will take a time to show the correctly description what Warrior 2Hand  should be and you gonna see  why  Arena Net is breaking the Warrior.

Everyone can do that with a pocket healer though. That is external sustain. The issue is not needing the external sustain in the first place.

[Smoosh.2718]

Quote

https://i.imgur.com/PDDOSWI.jpeg

How on earth is that showing a build? That shows only the stats which you've pretty much typed out anyway.
I assume you're afraid of everyone else using this same build?

At a guess id say you rely heavily on Burst skills using the arms trait line for 100% crits, this being said you have a low ferocity number at ~150% crit damage. 3 trait lines being STR - DEF - ARMs, honestly you might as well post it. If you're willing to make claims this is the be all end all build, but then block the image up refusing to show it as if its top secret, then the claims of the be all end all build are simply not true until proven.

Now i dont have the joys of changing my ammulets over due to not making legendary versions of them but the stats look very Soldier like to me Power, Tough, Vit.
 

If anything from the stats (since thats all you've give us) on paper would do ok in front line WvW providing you have support.

Where this build goes wrong is you have 1 space for either a stunbreak, or damage mitigation. Your utility is more than likely Rampage and the heal, since you're in WvW Id say is Defiant stance at a hunch, if it is yeah sure its tanky with that heal in blob vs blob... but go and fight competent players who know warrior animations with that heal (if its on that is).

I'm also noting the WvW rank of 285 suggesting that you've not played warrior for as long as a lot of the posters here (you may have played sPvP and PvE more so, but the WvW number is there to gauge) who have noted and pointed out the faults with warrior which are holding it back from being a competetive class for PvP, or a class wanted in PvE for anything but banners.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

How on earth is that showing a build? That shows only the stats which you've pretty much typed out anyway.
I assume you're afraid of everyone else using this same build?

At a guess id say you rely heavily on Burst skills using the arms trait line for 100% crits, this being said you have a low ferocity number at ~150% crit damage. 3 trait lines being STR - DEF - ARMs, honestly you might as well post it. If you're willing to make claims this is the be all end all build, but then block the image up refusing to show it as if its top secret, then the claims of the be all end all build are simply not true until proven.

Now i dont have the joys of changing my ammulets over due to not making legendary versions of them but the stats look very Soldier like to me Power, Tough, Vit.
 

If anything from the stats (since thats all you've give us) on paper would do ok in front line WvW providing you have support.

Where this build goes wrong is you have 1 space for either a stunbreak, or damage mitigation. Your utility is more than likely Rampage and the heal, since you're in WvW Id say is Defiant stance at a hunch, if it is yeah sure its tanky with that heal in blob vs blob... but go and fight competent players who know warrior animations with that heal (if its on that is).

I'm also noting the WvW rank of 285 suggesting that you've not played warrior for as long as a lot of the posters here (you may have played sPvP and PvE more so, but the WvW number is there to gauge) who have noted and pointed out the faults with warrior which are holding it back from being a competetive class for PvP, or a class wanted in PvE for anything but banners.

I have suspicions on what his build is, lord knows I play plenty build variations out of boredom.  I've roamed with stats like that and done really well. It's the sort of gameplay where you leverage the higher base defenses and high crit chance windows to whittle people down. It's not a build for quick fights, both people will be there a while.

 

I've fought off very good power revs on that sort of build and had to turn around and kill a DH (also not a bad player, just running an off meta DH build). So back to back long duration fights with now down time between.

 

Warrior can do pretty okay in WvW on a soldier or cele build believe it or not, it just does not work against everybody and takes a while to get a kill in if they dodge too many bursts, but they run out of dodges  eventually. YMMV of course, and it isn't a play style for everyone.

[Broxxgar.6801]

4 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

How on earth is that showing a build? That shows only the stats which you've pretty much typed out anyway.
I assume you're afraid of everyone else using this same build?

At a guess id say you rely heavily on Burst skills using the arms trait line for 100% crits, this being said you have a low ferocity number at ~150% crit damage. 3 trait lines being STR - DEF - ARMs, honestly you might as well post it. If you're willing to make claims this is the be all end all build, but then block the image up refusing to show it as if its top secret, then the claims of the be all end all build are simply not true until proven.

Now i dont have the joys of changing my ammulets over due to not making legendary versions of them but the stats look very Soldier like to me Power, Tough, Vit.
 

If anything from the stats (since thats all you've give us) on paper would do ok in front line WvW providing you have support.

Where this build goes wrong is you have 1 space for either a stunbreak, or damage mitigation. Your utility is more than likely Rampage and the heal, since you're in WvW Id say is Defiant stance at a hunch, if it is yeah sure its tanky with that heal in blob vs blob... but go and fight competent players who know warrior animations with that heal (if its on that is).

I'm also noting the WvW rank of 285 suggesting that you've not played warrior for as long as a lot of the posters here (you may have played sPvP and PvE more so, but the WvW number is there to gauge) who have noted and pointed out the faults with warrior which are holding it back from being a competetive class for PvP, or a class wanted in PvE for anything but banners.

As I said you can achieve better number, this set and build I was testing the Rifle, to see how much I can get from Max power on Gun flame and Kill shot. And of course testing all around on WvW. I was running to fights and I couldn't change my things all the time.  I have like 5 tabs of equipments and others on bag... so no way to change all the time. I don't have legendary armor. So to show the possibility I put My GS and other things to show that you can achieve it.


I cant take other pic of my achieves from the begining of GW2 Launch if you want. My number is low because I had to stop playing for a long time. I can also take a picture saying your name here on GW1 if you want on the PvP area. You decide what you want.

@CalmTheStorm.2364 

Take a look on this build if you want, is close to what I play, but this one down here come from PlagueTVx I just made somechanges:

Hammer Build 3.0


Video of him playing now:
 

 



See that he didn't play on Ranked.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[Broxxgar.6801]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Everyone can do that with a pocket healer though. That is external sustain. The issue is not needing the external sustain in the first place.

A just say about external heal because when you are receiving more than 5 source of damage is almost impossible that you have a self sustain to it, on this case I was talking about WvW fights. But for PvP is hard to sustain 30k+ of HP. But you can put the signet and adrenal healing, but even that can't sustain this large HP.

[Apolo.5942]

Warrior is the squishiest class, except may be thief.

[felix.2386]

warrior is squishy because HP and armor doesnt scale as good as evade and invuln and teleport in a group fight.

that's why spellbreaker is the only sustainable spec because full counter scales.

[Hotride.2187]

I'd say the main reason why war feels squishy is that it has to be in melee to deal damage, and that damage is bad. Playing war you are forced to dart in to deal "burst" "damage" and then dart out, against melee. That works, as long as your opponent is trying to kill you with melee. And by works I mean you won't die fast, I don't mean you'll actually deal damage, considering blind, weakness, slow, cripple, blocks, evades, distort, etc., eating up all your "burst" "damage" (and especially considering your ultra limited melee range and the dysfunctional rush/leaps). Or just your target outrunning you because they have swiftness for 33% and you have passive 25% movement speed.

As soon as your opponent switches to a ranged option (which everything but condi weaver has, where weaver has fire shield) and starts kiting, you are in trouble. Just by trying to close in to do damage you already probably ate 1/4 or even 1/3 of your HP worth of damage. Then your target pops a stability CD and you are just sitting there eating damage; you can't get back at range because you'll die from ranged damage, and you can't stay in melee because you can't stun lock the target. All the while you are being outdamaged and outsustained (by literally every profession, even thief). You can at least LoS in spvp, and in wvw you usually can run away.

It also doesn't help that half your condi cleanses are your stunbreak, with insane 75 sec CD. And you have no viable stability CD, so you can easily die to CC chains from e.g. DH or power tempest. But I feel those would be offset if you could actually deal damage; herald rev also suffers from CC chains, but at least it deals insane damage...

I have seen some players on high damage berserker spec, where  the squishiness is repaid with having actually good damage. But I imagine the moment one good thief gets on top of them they are dead in 2 seconds. Or they get bursted by a DH or a herald. And likely weakness shuts them down too.

Overall you are doing average damage with average sustain, where other professions either have average damage and good sustain, or good damage and average sustain. So you either cannot kill your target due to them outsustaining your damage, or you cannot kill your target due to them pressuring you into playing defensively. If you could pressure your opponent while they are kiting you with range, things would be different; your damage would be good. But you have no range option and your close-in skills are dysfunctional.

Of course you can always just play better than your opponent and win. But at that point, imagine if you were playing rev or ranger, you would be demolishing them...

Edited December 1, 2021 by Hotride.2187