Prismatic Champion's Regalia and Future Legendary Acquisition

[Mike.7983]

Just found the edit button is why, don't comment much.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

17 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

What percentage of players actually create and test out their own builds instead of going online and grabbing one from someone else?  Probably very small. I don’t feel that the “increased build diversity” argument is a very valid one. 

In the past there was a gear inspect hack which has been banned, and you would be surprised how diverse the general playerbase was. Most player were wearing whatever they found, mismatched rarities and runes and sigils. 

I would agree the high end, there is very little diversity because most people can figure out what traits and stats create the best synergies, but for the 1 spammers on the world boss train, it truely is a fiesta.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

In the past there was a gear inspect hack which has been banned, and you would be surprised how diverse the general playerbase was. Most player were wearing whatever they found, mismatched rarities and runes and sigils. 

I would agree the high end, there is very little diversity because most people can figure out what traits and stats create the best synergies, but for the 1 spammers on the world boss train, it truely is a fiesta.

Sorry, but this is suggesting that "1 spammers on the world boss train that wear whatever drops for them" will have a realistic use for theory crafting with legendary gear. They wouldn't. If someone can't be bothered to get -for example- full lvl 80 exotic berk gear (for about 1gold a piece on tp) at least as a baseline for their build comparisons, then "we" should stop pretending they'd go deep into build theory crafting, but all that stops them now is lack of legendary gear. It's just a false claim aiming at removing long-term goals from mmorpg while pretending it will somehow make the general playerbase better at the game.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Honestly I'm going to go for the pvp amulet anyway because I'm not into handout legendaries. That and the amulet has more rgb than a 14 year Olds gaming pc. 

[genjonah.1253]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Just curious, but why do you feel this way?

Among other reasons, the primary is two fold- if it weren’t gated, it makes all other gear irrelevant, and if weren’t gated, it eliminates long term goals which helps keep the game alive. 
 

GW2, thankfully, is a subscriptionless game. Because of that, in order to keep the game running at all, let alone getting more, they have to have ways to make money. ‘Shinies’ are, from what I can tell, the primary way they do that outside of expansions. 
 

Locking legendaries behind both content and gold (the Gen2 and so far forward with the exception of this amulet method) makes them long term goals, offers prestige, and more. Gold can and does often get supplemented by gem conversion, which is good for the game development, and additionally locking it behind the content is good for the health of the game itself

[Mungrul.9358]

@genjonah.1253, thanks for replying. I'll cordially agree to disagree, although my view is a little more nuanced 😀

 

I believe all QoL should be available to all players for minimal investment (if any), but that premium cosmetics should be gated.

That proved good enough for the first game, and I can't see why it wouldn't work here too.

 

But I am also under no illusions that ANet are going to turn around and implement such a system, so I'd like to see if they have further plans for other Legendaries to be acquired in a similar manner to this amulet, which I can see as being a good compromise.

 

Off topic:

My deepest problem with the game as a whole is that I think it was a massive mistake tying stats to gear in the first place.

Weapons should do damage, armour should negate damage (and maybe buff health), and all other stats should be controlled by build, same as the first game.

But there's too many players out there these days raised on Blizzard games who can't think outside of that box.

[NaramSin.2693]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:15 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

This is really one for someone at ANet, but I'm fully aware they rarely respond, so I welcome the community's opinions too!

 

I've really appreciated the fact that with Living World Return, ANet have given us a new way to acquire a piece of Legendary equipment, and most notably, one that doesn't have timegating (beyond initial release) or egregious material requirements.

So with that out of the way, I'm curious to know if the intention moving forward is to provide similar ways of obtaining other pieces of Legendary equipment.

 

What I think, being the legendary acquisition my personal end-game (I started 3 years ago with "The moot" and at the moment i'm at 30) I especially like the first generation one, they have really great and fun achievements (most of them) a great story with lore creating the precursor, with the 2nd collection being simply boring farming and material grinding, then some 2nd generation  that have a mix of first generation collection and simply material grinding (like astralaria, shooshadoo, nevermore) i find them fun to do but so long on acquiring mainly wood and ore materials, then come the "new 2nd" generation that are simply material grinding, no story, no lore, no achievements, nothing different from farming and material grinding, that make them so boring (even some of them are so great as items), the raid one it's well simply elitism a bit of toxicity and raid grind, Aurora it's one of my favorite, so long but so fun, vision not bad but mainly only long to do and then the new PVE amulet, the death of fun, a boring repetition of every LS, every story even the worst in the game, with things that you simply say: please not again!, imagine having done LS4, then Vision and then.... ALL...again...or things like drizzlewood map and all the "only fast farming" maps where half of the thing created by designer it's useless and/or not ever used, where you just need to jump here and there without a logic, imagine doing this after this "new legendary rush" when people will find maps almost empty unable to do events or bounties or JP etc.. imagine the nightmare in 2 or 3 years from now...
So,  i personally really hope they will go back to something with a story, with more achievements and missions "different" from the usual one you normally do with the story and not simply saying : do it all over again.
I understand this imply to create new content, but really that's what makes legendaries worth doing.
my 2c

Edited November 25, 2021 by NaramSin.2693

[genjonah.1253]

30 minutes ago, NaramSin.2693 said:

What I think, being the legendary acquisition my personal end-game (I started 3 years ago with "The moot" and at the moment i'm at 30) I especially like the first generation one, they have really great and fun achievements (most of them) a great story with lore creating the precursor, with the 2nd collection being simply boring farming and material grinding, then some 2nd generation  that have a mix of first generation collection and simply material grinding (like astralaria, shooshadoo, nevermore) i find them fun to do but so long on acquiring mainly wood and ore materials, then come the "new 2nd" generation that are simply material grinding, no story, no lore, no achievements, nothing different from farming and material grinding, that make them so boring (even some of them are so great as items), the raid one it's well simply elitism a bit of toxicity and raid grind, Aurora it's one of my favorite, so long but so fun, vision not bad but mainly only long to do and then the new PVE amulet, the death of fun, a boring repetition of every LS, every story even the worst in the game, with things that you simply say: please not again!, imagine having done LS4, then Vision and then.... ALL...again...or things like drizzlewood map and all the "only fast farming" maps where half of the thing created by designer it's useless and/or not ever used, where you just need to jump here and there without a logic, imagine doing this after this "new legendary rush" when people will find maps almost empty unable to do events or bounties or JP etc.. imagine the nightmare in 2 or 3 years from now...
So,  i personally really hope they will go back to something with a story, with more achievements and missions "different" from the usual one you normally do with the story and not simply saying : do it all over again.
I understand this imply to create new content, but really that's what makes legendaries worth doing.
my 2c

I think we’re largely on the same page. The path to acquiring Chuka and Champawat I think is the best legendary journey they’ve done (that I have done, at least)

 

lots of actual content, as well as the material gathering that isn’t the lore-stretching ridiculousness of curio after curio after curio…

 

again- I WANT legendaries to be ridiculously expensive. But I think the Chuka and Champawat path hit that sweet spot where you weren’t spending what felt like hours at the crafting station just hitting ‘go’ and walking away to do chores in real life while you waited for the thousands of mithril ingots to forge…

[NaramSin.2693]

8 hours ago, genjonah.1253 said:

I think we’re largely on the same page. The path to acquiring Chuka and Champawat I think is the best legendary journey they’ve done (that I have done, at least)

I agree, just started the first collection and it’s a lot of fun

[Dopamine.6324]

13 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Honestly I'm going to go for the pvp amulet anyway because I'm not into handout legendaries. That and the amulet has more rgb than a 14 year Olds gaming pc. 

tbh pvp amulet is faster/easier to get.
but yea that rainbow rbg is kinda 🤢

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

15 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Honestly I'm going to go for the pvp amulet anyway because I'm not into handout legendaries. That and the amulet has more rgb than a 14 year Olds gaming pc. 

Not sure about handout.. This has been my worst and longest experience to achieve legendary. I don't like this style of play at all. I am not story player. You have no idea how many times I fell sleep on chair while they were talking lol.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

11 hours ago, genjonah.1253 said:

I think we’re largely on the same page. The path to acquiring Chuka and Champawat I think is the best legendary journey they’ve done (that I have done, at least)

 

lots of actual content, as well as the material gathering that isn’t the lore-stretching ridiculousness of curio after curio after curio…

 

again- I WANT legendaries to be ridiculously expensive. But I think the Chuka and Champawat path hit that sweet spot where you weren’t spending what felt like hours at the crafting station just hitting ‘go’ and walking away to do chores in real life while you waited for the thousands of mithril ingots to forge…

I have not got that bow since i already had dreamer. But, Yes Astralaria and Raven Staff was one of my best experience creating legendaries.

[Mungrul.9358]

12 hours ago, genjonah.1253 said:

...where you weren’t spending what felt like hours at the crafting station just hitting ‘go’ and walking away to do chores in real life while you waited for the thousands of mithril ingots to forge…

 

That's actually an issue I've raised before since coming back to GW2.

 

I played a bit of Diablo 3 during the time I was away, and I was there for the patch where they improved gem crafting so it was always one progress bar of the same speed, no matter how many you were crafting, where before, it was like GW2 in that you'd hit "Go" and have to wait.

 

There's absolutely no reason to have crafting take so long in GW2 besides wasting the player's time. You can't do anything else while waiting for the progress bars to complete, so ANet are effectively forcing you to stop playing.

Madness, and an outdated system that hasn't been updated to keep up with the times.

[Gibson.4036]

The problem in MMOs has always been that the definition of a long term goal can be so different for any one player. If you create long term goals such that a player who plays, say, 40 hours a week can achieve them in 22 weeks, players who play 6 hours a week realize most of those goals are out of their reach, and don’t pursue them at all.

If you create long term goals for the 6 hour player, the 40 hour players feel like there’s nothing left to pursue.

Gear treadmill actually helps satisfy both sets of players because you can adjust over the life of the game, making what was once a long term goal for the 40s easier to get so the 6s can pursue it, while introducing new long term goals for the 40s.

I by no means want a gear treadmill. It’s one of the great things about this game that our gear progression is minimal, though the leap from ascended to Legendary is huge.

In most other games, though, at this point in their lives, it would make sense that legendaries were coming into reach for casual players, and something new would be showing up for the hardcore to pursue. As long as the hardcore are getting the more powerful, shinier new thing they aren’t all that bothered that the casuals are now earning what they did five years ago.

[Mungrul.9358]

55 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

In most other games, though, at this point in their lives, it would make sense that legendaries were coming into reach for casual players, and something new would be showing up for the hardcore to pursue. As long as the hardcore are getting the more powerful, shinier new thing they aren’t all that bothered that the casuals are now earning what they did five years ago.

I don't think they necessarily even need to be more powerful; I think "More Shiny" is probably good enough for the average Skritt player.

And to that end, I think infusions and the "Invisible" items could fill that gap, if they had a definite acquisition path instead of being RNG.

Heck, with infusions, you even get the increased power (albeit minuscule and not really that important outside of Fractals).

But otherwise, yep, fully agree.

 

PS: Anyone else find it deeply funny that ANet have effectively pulled an "Emperor's New Clothes" by making invisible attire some of the most sought-after, expensive gear in the entire game?

Edited November 26, 2021 by Mungrul.9358
Clarification

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

The problem in MMOs has always been that the definition of a long term goal can be so different for any one player. If you create long term goals such that a player who plays, say, 40 hours a week can achieve them in 22 weeks, players who play 6 hours a week realize most of those goals are out of their reach, and don’t pursue them at all.

If you create long term goals for the 6 hour player, the 40 hour players feel like there’s nothing left to pursue.

Gear treadmill actually helps satisfy both sets of players because you can adjust over the life of the game, making what was once a long term goal for the 40s easier to get so the 6s can pursue it, while introducing new long term goals for the 40s.

I by no means want a gear treadmill. It’s one of the great things about this game that our gear progression is minimal, though the leap from ascended to Legendary is huge.

In most other games, though, at this point in their lives, it would make sense that legendaries were coming into reach for casual players, and something new would be showing up for the hardcore to pursue. As long as the hardcore are getting the more powerful, shinier new thing they aren’t all that bothered that the casuals are now earning what they did five years ago.

So what exactly stands in the way of players with less time to aim for multiple sets of ascended gear as their long term goal?

Edited November 26, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So what exactly stands in the way of players with less time to aim for multiple sets of ascended gear as their long term goal?

Nothing.

🌵🤿

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Nothing.

Exactly, so there's no need for a change you pretend is needed for that exact reason.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:15 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

And in closing, I'd like to ask if there's any intention to retroactively look at other Legendaries in the game and give them similar paths to acquisition that also don't require timegates and/or huge materials investment.

I hope not, because that would make legendaries ordinary gear with nothing special about it.

While I don't mind the LW Return legendary amulet reward, I would have preferred if it was given only to players who have completed all existent episode achievements already there and not the easy few from the Return section - that would have felt more like a reward well deserved. (shrugs)

[Gibson.4036]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Exactly, so there's no need for a change you pretend is needed for that exact reason.

What change did I pretend is needed?

I was just saying that typically the treadmill provides a process by which hardcore players get the new stuff, and the old stuff becomes more reachable by the casuals as time goes by. This means all content created is eventually used by all players.

Without that process, there is stuff that is pretty exclusively for the hardcore to keep them busy, and will never be touched by the casuals, except maybe a thing or two as they accumulate years of casual play.

I didn't think that was such a hard concept to grasp.

I don't envy MMO designers at all. It's a really difficult thing to keep people satisfied when they consume what you create like it's a full time job, and demand you keep them busy doing that for years on end.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bcdc1de2-83f9-4c8e-9ab9-534aa60fb6c0

👁️🦄💦

Edited November 27, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

What change did I pretend is needed?

I was just saying that typically the treadmill provides a process by which hardcore players get the new stuff, and the old stuff becomes more reachable by the casuals as time goes by. This means all content created is eventually used by all players.

Without that process, there is stuff that is pretty exclusively for the hardcore to keep them busy, and will never be touched by the casuals, except maybe a thing or two as they accumulate years of casual play.

I didn't think that was such a hard concept to grasp.

I don't envy MMO designers at all. It's a really difficult thing to keep people satisfied when they consume what you create like it's a full time job, and demand you keep them busy doing that for years on end.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bcdc1de2-83f9-4c8e-9ab9-534aa60fb6c0

👁️🦄💦

Yea dont try to say that hardcores = content locust its two totaly differet a minorities within both casual and hardcore cluster.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

What change did I pretend is needed?

Um... this one?

Quote

In most other games, though, at this point in their lives, it would make sense that legendaries were coming into reach for casual players, and something new would be showing up for the hardcore to pursue.

What else could I have been talking about when that's pretty much the only change you were talking about in your post?

There's no need to introduce some fake gear treadmill with justification you've mentioned before (different players > different time spent on the game > different long term goals) "to keep both type of players satisfied". And there's no need for that, because, as you righfully responded to my question, there's nothing stopping people from aiming at multiple sets of ascended instead of pushing for legendaries. Overally different kinds of long term goals are already in the game and the current model is ok specifically because legendary gear doesn't give you more stat power over ascended gear.

Quote

I didn't think that was such a hard concept to grasp.

Same. 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

52 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Um... this one?

What else could I have been talking about when that's pretty much the only change you were talking about in your post?

There's no need to introduce some fake gear treadmill with justification you've mentioned before (different players > different time spent on the game > different long term goals) "to keep both type of players satisfied". And there's no need for that, because, as you righfully responded to my question, there's nothing stopping people from aiming at multiple sets of ascended instead of pushing for legendaries. Overally different kinds of long term goals are already in the game and the current model is ok specifically because legendary gear doesn't give you more stat power over ascended gear.

Same. 🤷‍♂️

Go back and read my post. I specifically said I didn’t want a treadmill.

🪁🎰🌄

Edited November 27, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Gibson.4036]

5 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yea dont try to say that hardcores = content locust its two totaly differet a minorities within both casual and hardcore cluster.

You’re totally right. My apologies, perhaps hardcore was a bad choice of words, but “content locust” and “no-lifers” are way too loaded. Some people have a lot of time to play, and do, and need things like daily cool downs and vast requirements to keep their long term goals long term. Is there a good word for this population?

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Go back and read my post. I specifically said I didn’t want a treadmill.

🪁🎰🌄

"at this point in their lives, it would make sense that legendaries were..."

🤔 Sounds like you're writing both things at the same time then.

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758