Why in the world is 'Heaven's Palm' so telegraphed / long of a cast time?

[mrauls.6519]

The cast time should be 1/2 to 3/4 seconds

[Kodama.6453]

4 seconds knockdown is pretty heavy CC, they probably gave it a long windup to ensure that you can counterplay it appropriately.

[Exile.8160]

28 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

4 seconds knockdown is pretty heavy CC, they probably gave it a long windup to ensure that you can counterplay it appropriately.

Its  an elite thats slow, block by dodging, blinds, aegis, stad, its range is short and if you manage to hit someone with it a simple stunbreaker makes it useless again. 

[Sonork.2916]

It's only 3 seconds in comp modes. so still a worse bane signet.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Sonork.2916

[Ragnar.4257]

The thing about CC, is that any decent build has at least 1 stunbreak available, and therefore having 1 CC skill is kind of pointless, since there is nothing else you have that might require enemy to stunbreak, so they can always just use their stunbreak on that 1 CC.

Having 1 CC is effectively the same as having 0 CC (at least, as far as "lockdown" goes, obviously still good for interrupts). To actually be able to lockdown, you need to be bringing multiple CCs to burn through enemy stunbreaks.

Guardian weapons completely lack any skills that an enemy might need to stunbreak. Okay, there's Banish on hammer, but who's using that? Yes there's shield knockback and GS pull, but those aren't worth stunbreaking; they're interrupts, not lockdowns.

So to achieve multiple CCs, for guardian those have to all come from Utilities. You can't just run 1 CC utility, as explained above. You either have to  run 3+ of them, or you run zero.

But running 3+ CC skills in utilities is suicide, you have to be taking cleanse/stunbreak/ports in those slots. So the only option is to run zero. Which means all these CC skills they're so proud of are all functionally useless and will never be used. The entire design of using CC utilities to "set up" sword#4 is nonsensical, even if it did do damage.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Sonork.2916]

I dunno why they haven't added some stuns to WB virtues or offhand sword, like stuns that we just get, you know, like every single other class, without needing to invest in skills for them.  Would love a stun/soft cc on Rushing justice, then replace the 1 sec immob on sword 5 with a 2 second stun (would be the first guardian weapon with a stun WOWEE  break the mold boyos!)  Make WB flames follow the guard and a trait that causes them to cripple enemies hit by them.  Like ez stuff that's actually good, instead of each skill/ability/trait being only somewhat useful or just bad.

[jaif.3518]

I agree with the OP - I think it needs to be 3/4s.  It's not very useful right now since it's so slow, which is a shame cause it's a neat skill.

[Ezrael.6859]

It's too slow for sure.

[Kuya.6495]

Tbh, if it had 1200 range, it wouldn't matter that it's slow and telegraphed because you could cast away from line of sight but it doesn't even have good range either. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Kuya.6495

[Monarc.9726]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:18 AM, Sonork.2916 said:

It's only 3 seconds in comp modes. so still a worse bane signet.

It will almost never get used.

[Guirssane.7082]

I don't see any situation where you would take that elite instead of the invul in pvp

[Sonork.2916]

Quote

I don't see any situation where you would take that elite instead of the invul in pvp

There is no place or game mode in which anyone would ever take the new elite other than to screw around.  By design it's worthless compared to other options.  Perhaps it should be re-designed, but if the design goal was to give the guardian a useless new elite, they have succeeded.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Sonork.2916

[quaniesan.8497]

Feel my wrath and Renewed Focus give so so much more values for the elite slot  than this junk.     This thing won't hit any player with half a brain in pvp. 1 1/4 second is more than enough to move out of the way or counter-cc.   If they give other players so much of a window time for easy counterplay, what is the point of this elite.  It basically screaming "i'm up here in the air for more than a whole second, kill me".   

With the WB being so squishy absolutely devoid of meaningful sustain , the elite slot most likely will be Renewed focus even if they fix this skill (which they probably won't given that they left it alone after beta 1). 

Edited January 17, 2022 by quaniesan.8497

[Aeolus.3615]

On 12/1/2021 at 12:34 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

4 seconds knockdown is pretty heavy CC, they probably gave it a long windup to ensure that you can counterplay it appropriately.

Isn there some runes that increase the KD duration?

Edited January 17, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[yLoon.5289]

Because you are in 'Heaven' xD

[Richter.9614]

On 12/1/2021 at 3:34 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

4 seconds knockdown is pretty heavy CC, they probably gave it a long windup to ensure that you can counterplay it appropriately.

Not being able to take Renewed Focus is the counterplay

[quaniesan.8497]

I get this feeling that they test and balance skills on  stationary training golems only.  That's why they don't see any problem with it.  If this thing isn't fixed along with the entire utility line, we are stuck with   meditation for condi cleanse again.    

 

DH forever!.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 12/1/2021 at 12:34 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

4 seconds knockdown is pretty heavy CC, they probably gave it a long windup to ensure that you can counterplay it appropriately.

more like get bursted while ur waiting for that to cast and hit at least was what hapened when i used that skill quite some times 😄

But in truly is to get willbender bended, the class name is willbender but Anet never stated wich will gets bended ahah!

Edited January 22, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[aelska.4609]

I really like this skill because it just shows how oblivious Anet is:

• Guards have no specific interest in a single CC skill. Effect is powerful so what ? Push it to 10s CC so it can be a save-or-die skill ?
• Knockback is MEH for a melee class

If they wanted a boring elite that is useful, an instant cast shadowstep that gives quickness or stability would have done the job. Or more defensively, something that cleanse condis -_-

[cat.8975]

I wonder if loading a bunch of boons onto it would make it any good for PvP.

[otto.5684]

As someone in another thread mentioned, Bane Signet has 3 sec CC,1,200 range, 0.75 sec cast, passively provides 180 power, has 30 sec CD, yet no one uses it in pvp. This elite skill is a downgraded version of that, with longer everything. Also, this is very similar to Jade Winds, but one target, while Jade Winds is one of 2 rev elites. 
 

It is one of many concepts/skills that were copied from power rev that is significantly watered down. If we will stick with copy paste, can it at least be done right, and make it an aoe CC?