Yep..Roamers are getting left out with the changes to WvW

[Bingus.4236]

On 12/5/2021 at 8:53 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Yes. Goodbye to the fun of public leads with voice chat (at least in the beta environment). 😐

 

Maybe not, every time I've logged in in Beta (which is not a lot)there's been a teamspeak link being constantly shared in team chat.

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 12/7/2021 at 5:29 AM, Counterakt.9106 said:

 

The problem with this post is that you think a guild plays together 24x7.

/.../

I can't join a guild and commit to showing up for raids at the appointed hour.

Here is the weakness of your argument: You assume guild to imply raiding guild. You can do whatever you like with your guild. Long before this beta there were roaming guilds, raiding guilds, GvG guilds, community guilds, PPT-oriented guilds and so on. That variety is good for the game mode. If anything, the new system looks to restore that norm. Perhaps because they realized that it kept players more attached?

There will be alliances on top of that. If you look to roam with members of a guild that raids, nothing is stopping you from asking if you can be apart of that community without raiding. The difference is that if they say no, they say no. You can't force them. You can still ask them and you can still find/found communities of likeminded players. You don't have to raid, you just have to do something to be socially active if you intend to socialize with a community.

Who knows, maybe the raid-guild players who roam with you prefer that over raiding and are just waiting for you to make a roaming guild that they can select for worlds? You could, you know, be social and talk to them.

Edited December 8, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Caedmon.6798]

Buddy just logged in and he didnt logg in the time he needed to select a world because he was busy WORKING,you know unable to log in daily and such. So now we cant even play together while he finally had a day off. He logged for 15 minutes we had a talk and he logged off.

Clap....Clap...Clap

Amazing system,just...amazing.

[subversiontwo.7501]

5 minutes ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

Buddy just logged in and he didnt logg in the time he needed to select a world because he was busy WORKING,you know unable to log in daily and such. So now we cant even play together while he finally had a day off. He logged for 15 minutes we had a talk and he logged off.

Clap....Clap...Clap

Amazing system,just...amazing.

On behalf of the WvW playerbase I can only apologize to your friend for his 2-day inconvenience (after having been away for weeks or months on end).

 

I can understand how tough a blow it must be.

[kash.9213]

33 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

On behalf of the WvW playerbase I can only apologize to your friend for his 2-day inconvenience (after having been away for weeks or months on end).

 

I can understand how tough a blow it must be.

That's 2 days after a decade. He also said couldn't log in daily, that doesn't mean they don't log in, it means they work a lot and aren't hounding forums and reddit. Even if they could log in daily, they likely would have been as confused as most other people about this beta given the poor communication. If you want to be a fervent apologist for a company that's not very passionate about people actually beta testing their game after a decade of not bothering than by all means keep up the snark. 

[Sarpan.9074]

On 12/5/2021 at 12:28 AM, Nidome.1365 said:

Which still doesn't work. The infrastructure is meant to sort out the population imbalance issue. I being blobbed worse in this Alpha (lets face it it isn't sufficiently developed enough to be a beta) that I was under the server system.

When you struggle to get 14 people together to defend you EB keep against a 40+ blob from one enemy team when the other enemy team have a 30+ blob running rampant unopposed on your home border then there are still population issues.

...

 

While this isn't consistent with the subject of this thread, I agree this is a game-killing problem that Anet needs to fix with the full implementation of Alliances. I did not expect it to be addressed in this alpha/beta, but it has to be eventually.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Sarpan.9074

[subversiontwo.7501]

14 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

That's 2 days after a decade. He also said couldn't log in daily, that doesn't mean they don't log in, it means they work a lot and aren't hounding forums and reddit. Even if they could log in daily, they likely would have been as confused as most other people about this beta given the poor communication. If you want to be a fervent apologist for a company that's not very passionate about people actually beta testing their game after a decade of not bothering than by all means keep up the snark. 

To be perfectly honest, yes overall the communication is bad, it has been bad, become better but is still far from ideal. I've agreed with people in recent threads who argued for more ingame pings about this. I've been "snarky" to Grouch about it when he was nice enough to say anything. The fervent apologist take is funny. I don't think Anet would agree with you on that one 🤣.

However, for the past 6 months they have reminded about the process revolving around the beta in various places from posts, to articles to streams and videos. I get that alot of players in this game are hyper casual. However, they also need some degree of humility when it comes to what you may miss if you choose to be. The specific information about selecting a guild for a beta could have been better but that has not been bad. Anyone who has paid attention to anything in the past 6 months knew about it and even if Anet said nothing ingame, players certainly did. It's hard to argue that nothing was said if you turn off every mean to reach you. Just knowing that the beta is comming should have been a prompt to stay a bit better informed. That has been known since early june.

Edited December 8, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[kash.9213]

11 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

To be perfectly honest, yes overall the communication is bad, it has been bad, become better but is still far from ideal. I've agreed with people in recent threads who argued for more ingame pings about this. I've been "snarky" to Grouch about it when he was nice enough to say anything. The fervent apologist take is funny. I don't think Anet would agree with you on that one 🤣.

However, for the past 6 months they have reminded about the process revolving around the beta in various places from posts, to articles to streams and videos. I get that alot of players in this game are hyper casual. However, they also need some degree of humility when it comes to what you may miss if you choose to be. The specific information about selecting a guild for a beta could have been better but that has not been bad. Anyone who has paid attention to anything in the past 6 months knew about it and even if Anet said nothing ingame, players certainly did. It's hard to argue that nothing was said if you turn off every mean to reach you. Just knowing that the beta is comming should have been a prompt to stay a bit better informed. That has been known since early june.

They're trying to test an in game mode, they need to communicate that in game. They fumbled that. Even a lot people who have been keeping up on everything were still not clear on details, as has been displayed in these threads because they're either playing or doing life, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem or these threads or as many people with the same complaint. Any criticism of that or the Alliance system in general until just now seemed to anger you, that's why I pointed that out. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by kash.9213

[subversiontwo.7501]

23 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

They're trying to test an in game mode, they need to communicate that in game. They fumbled that. Even a lot people who have been keeping up on everything were still not clear on details, as has been displayed in these threads because they're either playing or doing life. Any criticism of that or the Alliance system in general until just now seemed to anger you, that's why I pointed that out. 

It doesn't really anger me. I think all of this sits in a larger conflict. I believe, and I think Anet are starting to catch up, that the game and this mode is starting to throw a divide even in the notion of "casual". We're beginning to see hyper-casual players call even casual but socially active players "hardcore elitists" or whatever. That goes for my view on the communication here as well as the overarching broad discussion about Alliances. In our recent exchanges here I've tried to argue that many of these things you and I disagree upon (or others have completely unfounded ideas about) are simple social tools and norms. That's why I have to keep pointing out that you can have a guild without raiding. You can claim an objective to own that Dune Roller and so forth. It's not about Grrrr GvG.

There is so much strawman-whining going on from players who want to play-alone-together or want to be alone but still demand specific communities. The past few years Anet have catered to these players and, I believe, recently have begun to see the social errosion in their game, a game that still ultimately is an MMO that assumes some priority for social organisation; in short: in some conflict between solos and guilds or casuals and more active - giving the guilds something or expecting some sort of activity does not immidiately make the game hardcore elitist inaccessable.

For example, one thing I keep comming back to in this: I have identified an issue where solo/selfish players are demanding accesss to tags/sharing players and make them quit - creating a situation where we have more players looking to follow fewer tags. You can disagree with that, you can believe that is a good thing or you can argue semantics and realities about it all you like. However, I think Anet have slowly come to see the same problem and see it as a problem. I also think this problem is as persistant both on many of the least server-oriented worlds as on some of the most server-oriented worlds here in WvW, at least in EU (I've used the Gandara-Whiteside dichotomy as an example here many times, though it is honestly getting dated).

Edited December 8, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[KrakensEmbrace.8215]

On 12/5/2021 at 7:35 AM, Gorani.7205 said:

=> running under my own small guild tag gave the opportunity to tactically claim a camp or other structure for supply, which I could not do when a large guild has e.g. claimed a keep on the map. This is a valuable assistance to the commander on the map, whether he is of the large guild or not and PUG commanding.

You can switch guild rep while in WvW, even mid-capture... The only time you gotta rep a guild for a claim is while clicking the claim button. Most of the time don't even need to bother repping while the capture circle is up unless your small guild had enough participation in said capture (and any prior NPC killings) to be in/at the top of the capture queue.  

 

Unless a guild in question has a rep requirement,  there is no reason you'd need to rep any large guild to either be teamed with them or during captures. For this beta, you (and any other self-proclaimed roamers who are struggling with not having their usual peeps in WvW) had the option to join a guild to be teamed together with people you enjoy playing with and continued doing your normal thing repping any guild you want (it's what I did) or no guild at all. With world restructuring released as currently planned, all you'll need to do is have your small guild in an alliance with them.  

 

For some reason even if you were to run with a guild with rep requirements, that wouldn't stop you from switching over for a second or two to claim an objective under another guild. The claim point is moot.

____________________

 

If anything this beta should have made things easier for roamers. At least in my matchup, lots of folks appear to be either uneasy playing solo or in small groups and/or using this as an opportunity to run with new tags; so extra blobby. Huge blobs are slow and limited in being able to hop maps easily without losing folks to queue. You might not be able to hold targets, but back-capping in that environment as roamers is a breeze. 

 

If you're the kind of roamer who prefers making callouts, refreshing seige and pulling tacts than capturing things solo, while this beta wouldn't be enough time to build trust with teammates to get shared from the squads, there will be time for that in a full matchup. If you have particular people you want to play with, like it is for everyone else, it's on you to be reaching out to them to negotiate if you can and coordinate how together. 

 

That, or don't have a guild selected before reset and, before joining a WvW map, find out where the people you want to play with are and select a team that's not full. 

[MedievalThings.5417]

Alliances is a stacking contest, where blobs get a free reroll to stack as many as they can on one world.  That's it.  

[ASP.8093]

7 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Alliances is a stacking contest, where blobs get a free reroll to stack as many as they can on one world.  That's it.  

… You are describing normal server-based play.

[havenstance.1746]

On 12/4/2021 at 11:03 PM, ASP.8093 said:

This isn't a full implementation of Alliances, it's just a test of the dynamic teaming infrastructure.

 

In the future, you can:

1. Join a guild of people you like. Very few WvW guilds have obsessive raiding requirements.

2. Use a personal/vanity/troll guild to join an alliance of people you like. Costs 1 gold to create a bare-bones new one.

3. Try the free agent life. Maybe you'll enjoy it.

ORRRRR.... They can take this ignorant idea, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. That's what they can do with this new "ALLIANCE" Crap.

[Strider Pj.2193]

6 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

… You are describing normal server-based play.

With the exception that an alliance can only ‘stack’ 500 players, whereas now, they can stack more.

[SweetPotato.7456]

People thinks roamers don't matter when they matter a lot, they are players who keep everything in check at places that a big zerg doesn't go to because no bags, and they are always around when no one is. They take care of the "little things" which are as important as zergs fighting zergs, roamers and zerg are like a living eco systems co existing, even though I don't want to join any guild, I still support my servers in many ways I can. (even if I hate some of them) it is still my server. 

Linking me to another group of players just because I do not want to be attach to any guild is the worse thing Anet can do so far. I am currently thinking of getting refund for my EoD purchased within the first 24 hours of its announcement. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[ASP.8093]

"Roamers do useful things" and "I don't want to join a guild/alliance" are two distinct ideas. Y'all keep linking them together but there's no reason to link them together.

 

(Look around. Most roamers have a guild tag. The roamers/scouts doing the bulk of the annoying chorework related to managing the state of the map often have several so they can make sure objectives are claimed and upgraded more flexibly.)

[MedievalThings.5417]

11 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

… You are describing normal server-based play.

Yes, but I added the part where they get to do it for no gem cost.

[Infusion.7149]

5 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

"Roamers do useful things" and "I don't want to join a guild/alliance" are two distinct ideas. Y'all keep linking them together but there's no reason to link them together.

 

(Look around. Most roamers have a guild tag. The roamers/scouts doing the bulk of the annoying chorework related to managing the state of the map often have several so they can make sure objectives are claimed and upgraded more flexibly.)

This is basically the problem , people don't want to acknowledge this beta test isn't the final iteration of alliances it's the FIRST. There's plenty of bugs even if you don't account for the way guilds are matched. Roamers actually have it easy.

In addition, so long as someone has a guild tag even if there is only one person in that guild if they are willing to be allied with an actual WvW comped/organized/(whatever you want to use as a descriptor) guild then this thread is moot.

Everyone here complaining about a first beta test's core functionality is akin to people stuck on rotary phones when the world is trying to move on. Sure there's going to be bugs (i.e. wrong team color on objectives , wrong labels on the map names, server names popping up when capturing), but to stop all progress just because of bugs when it is a week long test? That's rather ridiculous. Before someone goes "they should have test servers" , I was in Desert BL beta test server and when it hit live the laser event imploded the live servers to a standstill. Things that work in dev environment might not work on live environment due to scale : far less people are likely to log in the test server.

Subversiontwo's statement about "play-alone-together or want to be alone but still demand specific communities" is spot on about this.

The alliances information has been posted on the game client news section so unless people want them to send a newsletter to everyone that may not even play the game on a regular basis (i.e. not counted in alliance metrics currently) it just isn't feasible to provide even more notification.
Exhibit A: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-live-fall-and-winter-2021/
Exhibit B: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/inside-arenanet-world-restructuring-beta-1-recap-and-next-steps/

Not in game client: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105042-wvw-world-restructuring-beta-update-–-november-24-2021/

P.S. People spamming confused emojis should try watching a video on what alliances are about instead of assuming this test is the final revision.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[corwin.8356]

I missed the window for tagging up with my alliance and got put on a random , shard? , I believe. I'm not a great roamer; not horrible either, but I found roaming to be much more fun that what I faced in T1-T2 all the time. 

While I do enjoy the large scale battles with huge zergs, the 1-5 man skirmishes are just as fun sometimes and I don't have a Tag barking orders in my ear.

I think we've got a bunch of crybabies sometimes...

[Strider Pj.2193]

20 hours ago, corwin.8356 said:

I missed the window for tagging up with my alliance and got put on a random , shard? , I believe. I'm not a great roamer; not horrible either, but I found roaming to be much more fun that what I faced in T1-T2 all the time. 

While I do enjoy the large scale battles with huge zergs, the 1-5 man skirmishes are just as fun sometimes and I don't have a Tag barking orders in my ear.

I think we've got a bunch of crybabies sometimes...

Gave you a 🏆 because there are many ❄️‘s

[Biermeister.4678]

Roaming is up on the server I was put on and participated in some nice build exchange's plenty of things to capture and plenty of small scale fights, and if you didn't get in the same alliance as your main guild and the are on opposite team you can still help them with a review of the flights after from the opposite side perspective and it is also fun to fight with different people and learn new tactics

Edited December 10, 2021 by Biermeister.4678
missed word

[Gehenna.3625]

On 12/9/2021 at 2:14 PM, ASP.8093 said:

"Roamers do useful things" and "I don't want to join a guild/alliance" are two distinct ideas. Y'all keep linking them together but there's no reason to link them together.

This is true. Though I do think that there is an overlap because people who don't want to join a guild/alliance generally end up being roamers. 

On 12/9/2021 at 2:14 PM, ASP.8093 said:

(Look around. Most roamers have a guild tag. The roamers/scouts doing the bulk of the annoying chorework related to managing the state of the map often have several so they can make sure objectives are claimed and upgraded more flexibly.)

Now you make a similar mistake in reasoning. The fact that there are guild tags doesn't mean that they are part of a guild that is active in that map at that time. There are solo guilds, small guilds or even larger guilds that don't WvW as a guild and even if they do, they may not be active at that time. All reasons why there may be players with a guild tag that aren't part of a bigger group on the map doing the "chores". So those are also two distinct ideas.

[TheBHSP.8952]

Hopefully Anet can increase the number of guild slots. Then you and your little band of friends can go make a new guild free of any rules just for the alliance.

[Drascious.5714]

On 12/5/2021 at 4:21 AM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Imagine saying you have friends but don't want to be in guilds with them...

This was my thought too, i just don't understand the OP at all, we get 5 guild slots, so there is ample space to add a guild for your friends to join so you can wvw together.

[SweetPotato.7456]

On 12/9/2021 at 9:14 PM, ASP.8093 said:

"Roamers do useful things" and "I don't want to join a guild/alliance" are two distinct ideas. Y'all keep linking them together but there's no reason to link them together.

 

(Look around. Most roamers have a guild tag. The roamers/scouts doing the bulk of the annoying chorework related to managing the state of the map often have several so they can make sure objectives are claimed and upgraded more flexibly.)

I am in 3 dormant guilds all use for claiming objectives and slotting tactics.