Perma Stealth Thiefs - What to do?

[anduriell.6280]

there is a lot of comments in this post but from the solutions provided i could say a couple of things: 

1. WvW gadgets are not a solution. It does not matter they need supplies or the extremely limited design by having to place the trap / playing the guessing game with the painters. The simple fact you as player has to open the inventory and equip a tool which will replace your profession skills is a big problem and it should not be the case. I got the impression those gadgets were more like a testing ground to provide the effect to some Engi skills instead the reveal. 

2. I think i shared a suitable solution for the Deadeye: DE was supposed to get increased ranged in exchange for limited mobility (thus the kneeling). It is not working like that. DE should have any stealth application replaced by Camouflage and have an extended duration of it. They can stealth for longer, more often but they can not move or rick to  being revealed otherwise. Then it will make sense to have Silent Scope and Shadow Meld in the toolkit. 

3. Some time ago I also shared how I would redesign Stealth (thiefs, smoke) and invisibility(mesmer/engie) so both mechanics are different and provide a self-regulated balancing mechanic:

   1. Stealth from shadow magic makes the user partially visible or transparent  ( it could a similar way as you see your own character while stealthed ) to enemies within a radius from the stealthed user. The thief may not be directly targeteable but enemies could "see" it if searching for it while being within a radius from the thief (for example 600 units) . Because the model would be transparent or translucid even when under this effect the user would not be  easily spotted unless actively looking for it. 
      This would change also blasting smoke and Druid stealth. A trait could reduce that radius to 300 units so Thieves will have always the better mechanic and upperhand over other sources. 

   2. Invisibility from illusion magic makes the user invisible to all enemies within a radius from the user. Which means enemies farther than X units from the user will be able to target and see them (for example 600 units) . Engineer and Runes could use this effect too. Mesmers could have a trait to extend this radius to 900 so the class would have the better version of this if traited. 

   3. Camouflage would not be affected by this, the user would be invisible at all distances. 

For me this would be the best PvP approach to this mechanic.  From a development perspective the change is done such the objects are calculated by using the radius around the player using the invisibility, so when an enemy trigger the AoE the effects are cast ( from invisible to translucid /  from visible to invisible) for that specific enemy so it should not be taxing. 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Sahne.6950]

58 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Stealth from shadow magic makes the user partially visible or transparent  ( it could a similar way as you see your own character while stealthed ) to enemies within a radius from the stealthed user. The thief may not be directly targeteable but enemies could "see" it if searching for it while being within a radius from the thief (for example 600 units) . Because the model would be transparent or translucid even when under this effect the user would not be  easily spotted unless actively looking for it. 
This would change also blasting smoke and Druid stealth. A trait could reduce that radius to 300 units so Thieves will have always the better mechanic and upperhand over other sources. 

i somewhat like that but it would KILL teef, especially D/P teefs. Just imagine how incredibly hard it would be to hit a backstab on someone that has a brain.... Pair that with the 1 second internal cooldown when you miss a stealthattack and you rendered Any thief completly useless. backstabrange has to be the exact same range as you become visible or it needs a short leap. for example 450 range of detection and the backstab will teleport you 450 range when doing it. This way you can detect teefs that are sneaking thru your own rows, while still giving them a fair chance to backstab. but overall i think that this would be a buff to teef... so we wont see that. Backstab limits the options to balance stealth unfortunatly.

Just make stealthing for longer than 15 seconds impossible. It would give you a debuff that you cant stealth for 5 seconds. GG. permastealth fixed without nerfing teef into the ground.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Just make stealthing for longer than 15 seconds impossible. It would give you a debuff that you cant stealth for 5 seconds. GG. permastealth fixed without nerfing teef into the ground.

Let me just plug something I've suggestef before:

Every second in stealth adds one second of revealed (cannot be removed) upon exiting stealth (no matter how).

Ie a thief can stealth for a minute if he so please... but after that he cannot stealth for a minute.

Let thieves manage their stealth like a resource with a cost. This would be universal to everyone with stealth but would affect those with less stealth minimally (for example if you pop a 3s stealth skill with 30s cd it doesnt matter that you are revealed 3s).

Edited February 10, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[anduriell.6280]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i somewhat like that but it would KILL teef, especially D/P teefs. Just imagine how incredibly hard it would be to hit a backstab on someone that has a brain.... Pair that with the 1 second internal cooldown when you miss a stealth attack and you rendered Any thief completly useless. backstabrange has to be the exact same range as you become visible or it needs a short leap. for example 450 range of detection and the backstab will teleport you 450 range when doing it. This way you can detect teefs that are sneaking thru your own rows, while still giving them a fair chance to backstab. but overall i think that this would be a buff to teef... so we wont see that. Backstab limits the options to balance stealth unfortunatly.

I see your point and appreciate your solution. However, Aren't thieves always complaining because of the nerfs to backstab the skill ended doing "no damage"? 

So at increased the risk I would also increase the rewards. If did something like I suggested  I would also balance the damage out, so backstabbing would do better damage. Not at the pre-nerf one-shot levels but higher than now so the backstab feels good to land. 

And as you very well said: Nobody with an IQ higher than room temperature should be an easy target of this new backstab skill in small scale. At the same time thief would get some of their damage back which definitely will improve their usability in large scale. 

What about DE? Wouldn't it be too much with any malice? But DE would have camouflage now, which does not allow the deadeye to move around stealthed as such the risk of a one-shot backstab from nowhere goes away. Unless the target wonders around at a backstab distance from the DE, then I would call that Destiny and nothing could be done about it. 

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Let me just plug something I've suggestef before:

Every second in stealth adds one second of revealed (cannot be removed) upon exiting stealth (no matter how).

Ie a thief can stealth for a minute if he so please... but after that he cannot stealth for a minute.

Let thieves manage their stealth like a resource with a cost. This would be universal to everyone with stealth but would affect those with less stealth minimally (for example if you pop a 3s stealth skill with 30s cd it doesnt matter that you are revealed 3s).

Although is a pretty good idea it feels more like a powercreep of reveal... Same way as it has been done from ever:

First came the invisibility,
then the reveal,
then the removal of the reveal and
now we are with the target painters (which is what you are suggesting i guess). 

Tomorrow will come something it will ignore that effect you bring up. I think we need a tangent solution instead piling effects up.  

Edited February 10, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

5 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

And that didn't make any sense and put any sort of relevancy to the topic. Fact is thieves have way too many jail free cards namely d/p SA combo.

1st, last I checked, d/p still costs initiative. Do you even hear how ridiculous some of these arguments of yours sound?
2nd, thief is hardly the only class with "jail free cards" - they'd be utterly unable to compete if they, in fact, hadn't one! If you've played most of, if not all, the expansion elites, then you realize this sooner or later.

It is delusional to keep on claiming otherwise.

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

13 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

1st, last I checked, d/p still costs initiative. Do you even hear how ridiculous some of these arguments of yours sound?

Love the fact that you forgot to mention that if a thief player knows what they're doing, the initiate resource is EASILY manageable. There are traits and skills that restore initiatives, or even increase the max amount of it, so I fail to see how that's a good argument.
 

13 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

2nd, thief is hardly the only class with "jail free cards" - they'd be utterly unable to compete if they, in fact, hadn't one! If you've played most of, if not all, the expansion elites, then you realize this sooner or later.

It is delusional to keep on claiming otherwise.

Lets not redirect other classes from the main topic. This is about thief, Not about firebrand, not Mesmer, Or even rangers. Sure, they have their own set of problems, But thief by far is the most egregious when it comes to wvw. Especially with the mobility and stealth they have.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 minute ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

Love the fact that you forgot to mention that if a thief player knows what they're doing, the initiate resource is EASILY manageable. There are traits and skills that restore initiatives, or even increase the max amount of it, so I fail to see how that's a good argument.
 

Lets not redirect other classes from the main topic. This is about thief, Not about firebrand, not Mesmer, Or even rangers. Sure, they have their own set of problems, But thief by far is the most egregious with the mobility and stealth they have.

Nice strawman. 

It's not about mine being a bad argument. it's about YOURS being a NON-ARGUMENT.

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

2 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Nice strawman. 

It's not about mine being a bad argument. it's about YOURS being a NON-ARGUMENT.

You know, just saying my argument is a strawman doesn't make it an actual strawman if you don't explain why it's a strawman.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Just now, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

You know, just saying my argument is a strawman doesn't make it an actual strawman if you don't explain why it's a strawman.

At this point, I'm trying to figure out whether you're playing dumb or not.

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

3 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

At this point, I'm trying to figure out whether you're playing dumb or not.

In other words, you have no counter argument to my "Strawman" And resorting to calling me dumb? Yeah, I think I rest my case. I hear copium is a strange type of drug.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Mabi black.1824]

I have the strange feeling that thieves would like to leave everything as it is 😉

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 minute ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

In other words, you have no counter argument to my "Strawman" And resorting to calling me dumb? Yeah, I think I rest my case.

You do realize the explanation is right there. But, ah right, the average text analysis ability of a forum-goer here tends to loom around 0.

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

23 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

You do realize the explanation is right there. But, ah right, the average text analysis ability of a forum-goer here tends to loom around 0.

You know, it's rather petty to DM me to say I wrong and insult for providing the argument. without explaining WHY I am wrong. Try maturing up before going to the forums again, will you?

Edited February 10, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Just now, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

You know, it's rather petty to DM me to say I wrong I am for providing the argument. Try maturing up before going to the forums again, will you?

Stop projecting, will you.

[Burial.1958]

9 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

And that didn't make any sense and put any sort of relevancy to the topic. Fact is thieves have way too many jail free cards namely d/p SA combo.

It does make alot of sense because 90% are Blob Builds who think they can chase and gank me. There are several Builds on other classes with alot of mobility when you use it right. With that they have "jail cards" too (and with the new Expac alot Classes get more mobility!)  but as i said most people think they can manage the whole WvWvW with 1 Build from Meta Battle.

 

C'mon now you have Mounts (Edit:Mobility!)/Reveal from Guards and Towers + Reveal Skills and some Traps. And still peoples are complaining. Because they are mostly stupid and fight a thief (with Blob Build) not near a tower or guard = Zero map awareness. AND There is simply no right for a free bag. When the enemy disengage i really do not care at all.  Thief is unique because he is all about improvisation and movement due his mechanic.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Grebcol.5984

[anduriell.6280]

22 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

C'mon now you have Mounts/Reveal from Guards and Towers + Reveal Skills and some Traps. And still peoples are complaining. Because they are mostly stupid and fight a thief (with Blob Build) not near a tower or guard = Zero map awareness. AND There is simply no right for a free bag. When the enemy disengage i really do not care at all.  Thief is unique because he is all about improvisation and movement due his mechanic.

Just some smol corrections as you seem to not know some mechanics : 

• Mounts ping do not reveal or mark invisible targets. 
• Towers need to have the upgrade installed. Even then the effect is an small radius around the structure and it ceases as soon as the thief teleport far enough. 
• Most reveal skills have a short radius and/or need to target the thief first. Aside from the short durations of those reveals it is not possible to target an invisible perma-stealth thief. 
• We establish forcing players to deal with external gadgets to deal with a profession mechanic is not adequate for any PvP game.

So yes stealth is a mechanical problem in the game because it is designed for PvE and not PvP.  Players are asking for a fix to stealth so it is designed around PVP modes. I think that is a sensible request. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

35 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

It does make alot of sense because 90% are Blob Builds who think they can chase and gank me. There are several Builds on other classes with alot of mobility when you use it right. With that they have "jail cards" too (and with the new Expac alot Classes get more mobility!)  but as i said most people think they can manage the whole WvWvW with 1 Build from Meta Battle.

Except that no other class has the level of mobility as a thiefs do. Other classes can't keep evading a zerg forever. A thief can, that's the difference.

But lets be real, no one complaining about thieves outrunning  a zerg. That's stupid. The problem people have is that in a roaming and small scale scenario, Thieves either gank you, or they fail and outrun you to a absurd degree until their cooldown and initiative reset, and keep harassing the other player until they die, in a keep, or within a zerg. There is NO real counter play for such a coward playstyle, And no, I'm not talking about mounts, or reveal from guards, ect ect. I'm talking about Counterplays within the player's class. A Player reveal does absolutely nothing to a thief who can outrun you, and it's even more useless if you're fighting a deadeye because they can outright remove the EXTREMELY limited reveals you have and stealth up again.
 

35 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

C'mon now you have Mounts/Reveal from Guards and Towers + Reveal Skills and some Traps. And still peoples are complaining. Because they are mostly stupid and fight a thief (with Blob Build) not near a tower or guard = Zero map awareness. AND There is simply no right for a free bag. When the enemy disengage i really do not care at all.  Thief is unique because he is all about improvisation and movement due his mechanic.

Because they're not REAL Solutions. They're band aid fix to a internal wound. Anet needs to look into the fundamental problems not from the thief itself, but how to combat them in wvw, because all the other classes are VERY limited on what they can do. YOU just outright admitted that without the tower to help them, Fighting against a thief is a death sentence. That is horrible game design. I should be relying on my class skills, not some stupid wvw mechanic. The fact that you call players stupid for not using a tower just speak volume of the arrogance of players who main thief.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

49 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

It does make alot of sense because 90% are Blob Builds who think they can chase and gank me. There are several Builds on other classes with alot of mobility when you use it right. With that they have "jail cards" too (and with the new Expac alot Classes get more mobility!)  but as i said most people think they can manage the whole WvWvW with 1 Build from Meta Battle.

 

C'mon now you have Mounts/Reveal from Guards and Towers + Reveal Skills and some Traps. And still peoples are complaining. Because they are mostly stupid and fight a thief (with Blob Build) not near a tower or guard = Zero map awareness. AND There is simply no right for a free bag. When the enemy disengage i really do not care at all.  Thief is unique because he is all about improvisation and movement due his mechanic.

Yesterday I've met few individuals which have stepped into stealth trap and removed marked within like 5s, so yea. :')
Mounts only "ping" non-stealthed enemies within x radius, beside that it's buggy af and it won't even work but still will go on full cd (Sniffing while hopping = full cooldown without effects). Traps/Paints are useless, because you "just" leveled stealth into reasonable timer but hey, they still can stealth and use teleports/blinds/whatever their kit offer at any given time so in reality nothing much have changed in encounter against them. Sentries and Towers "Marked" is to show enemies near their locations, so it's not really a thing to "counter teefs" as many believe here, but it's used as an information about enemy position on map.
Lovely Reveal skills that require a target to be used or require teef to be dumb enough to walk into one, so useful in real combat.
Try sniffing out perma stealth DE on red borders keep, just try it.

[Burial.1958]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Just some smol corrections as you seem to not know some mechanics : 

• Mounts ping do not reveal or mark invisible targets. 
• Towers need to have the upgrade installed. Even then the effect is an small radius around the structure and it ceases as soon as the thief teleport far enough. 
• Most reveal skills have a short radius and/or need to target the thief first. Aside from the short durations of those reveals it is not possible to target an invisible perma-stealth thief. 
• We establish forcing players to deal with external gadgets to deal with a profession mechanic is not adequate for any PvP game.

So yes stealth is a mechanical problem in the game because it is designed for PvE and not PvP.  Players are asking for a fix to stealth so it is designed around PVP modes. I think that is a sensible request. 

I meant with the mount the mobility that was increased with it.

So  most of the Towers are in my Matchup upgraded and have this.The Radius is not small at all because i simply can't fight around or in towers with that with a D/P set. I would be a Freebag against any decent Thief, Ranger, Engi, Necro and so on. There is no other class that is weakened by towers or NPC's like the thief. 

As i said don't fight them at a bad place.

In PvE i play a stealthless Staff Build. Your Argument is bad because Stealth is now since how long in the Game? 🙃 For sure because it was only designed for PvE, lol.

You don't like stealth? Fine, that is your Opinion.

You can delete Stealth, okay but i can say that u and the other whiners will here again but then with the OP Mobility, Blinds or whatever man.  I even saw people whine against a stealthless S/D Thief because he can Port soooooo many times and evade everything.

Gw 2 do not have a Stealth problem more a problem with whiners who moan against everything what the Game offers. But this game is not made only for you and your fun.

I am open to certain changes. The one user who brought up the idea of LoL briefly displaying a veil when hit, I thought was good one. But to completely change a whole class because you have problems with it, is simply not possible and is an insult to the players who have been playing it for years.

Over and Out

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Grebcol.5984

[Morena.9312]

1 hour ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

Except that no other class has the level of mobility as a thiefs do. Other classes can't keep evading a zerg forever. A thief can, that's the difference.

But lets be real, no one complaining about thieves outrunning  a zerg. That's stupid. The problem people have is that in a roaming and small scale scenario, Thieves either gank you, or they fail and outrun you to a absurd degree until their cooldown and initiative reset, and keep harassing the other player until they die, in a keep, or within a zerg. There is NO real counter play for such a coward playstyle, And no, I'm not talking about mounts, or reveal from guards, ect ect. I'm talking about Counterplays within the player's class. A Player reveal does absolutely nothing to a thief who can outrun you, and it's even more useless if you're fighting a deadeye because they can outright remove the EXTREMELY limited reveals you have and stealth up again.
 

Because they're not REAL Solutions. They're band aid fix to a internal wound. Anet needs to look into the fundamental problems not from the thief itself, but how to combat them in wvw, because all the other classes are VERY limited on what they can do. YOU just outright admitted that without the tower to help them, Fighting against a thief is a death sentence. That is horrible game design. I should be relying on my class skills, not some stupid wvw mechanic. The fact that you call players stupid for not using a tower just speak volume of the arrogance of players who main thief.

 

And the arrogance of players here who don't seem to have played the thief for a minute themselves but then just want to kill the whole class is of course okay. Of course, it's great when opponents of a class want to balance exactly that class. Comes out certainly very fair. 🤓 Confirmation bias in its purest form.

I myself play rangers and have no problems with them. There are definitely other builds that are completely insane than the wretched thief hate that certain people have been cultivating for years. 😉

To that end, it's just plain weird to debate balance in front of a big expac. Let's see what the new specs bring first. Quite a few of them imitate the thief in some way.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Carmela.8756

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

13 minutes ago, Carmela.8756 said:

And the arrogance of players here who don't seem to have played the thief for a minute themselves but then just want to kill the whole class is of course okay. Of course, it's great when opponents of a class want to balance exactly that class. Comes out certainly very fair. 🤓 Confirmation bias in its purest form.

I don't think I've said once that I wanted thieves to be gutted. What I want is thief to be tuned down, or gives other classes better tools to handle them. so don't be such a extremist and think that "All" The players want to see Thief become as worthless as Harbinger in pvp. Both extreme doesn't have to go both ways, and thief is just one end in that extreme.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Carmela.8756 said:

I myself play rangers and have no problems with them. There are definitely other builds that are completely insane than the wretched thief hate that certain people have been cultivating for years. 😉

Good for you? I don't know if you expect me to give you a gold star or anything. Just because you're saying you're able to kills thieves doesn't exactly mean anything. And again with the redirects. Like, Yes, I know other classes are overpowered too. They also need to be tuned down, especially firebrand, but we're talking about thief, so stop playing the "But Look at these classes, they are op." It's irrelevant.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[GoldenPants.1870]

7 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Just imagine how incredibly hard it would be to hit a backstab on someone that has a brain....

Can’t have thieves actually try to land their abilities like all the other classes needs to, can we now ?

[Morena.9312]

38 minutes ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

I don't think I've said once that I wanted thieves to be gutted. What I want is thief to be tuned down, or gives other classes better tools to handle them. so don't be such a extremist and think that "All" The players want to see Thief become as worthless as Harbinger in pvp. Both extreme doesn't have to go both ways, and thief is just one end in that extreme.

 

 

Good for you? I don't know if you expect me to give you a gold star or anything. Just because you're saying you're able to kills thieves doesn't exactly mean anything. And again with the redirects. Like, Yes, I know other classes are overpowered too. They also need to be tuned down, especially firebrand, but we're talking about thief, so stop playing the "But Look at these classes, they are op." It's irrelevant.

I have been reading these sentences for almost 10 years.  In addition, the suggestions that have been made here, point more in the direction of Delete Thief. Too many players have the feeling that the entire game is made only for them. That you yourself have problems with the class is your problem and not the game. You've never played the class, but you expect the developer to give you all sorts of additional tools to get the most out of it with the least amount of effort. That you have no idea about balance can be seen by the fact that you bring no compensation for the thief. When u take something he should be getting also something back or not? 😇  But all i read is "take that away or give me the super ultra tools to face everything in the game! Asap!" I mean why don't you make a thief yourself then? When it is so crazy strong and kill these nasty thiefs?

 

I don't understand such people who have nothing better to do than crying about OPness all the days in the forum. I'm going back to the game. I have already killed 3 thieves with my ranger without any additional tools. The ones that are already in the game are enough. 😉😘

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Carmela.8756

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

1 hour ago, Carmela.8756 said:

I have been reading these sentences for almost 10 years.  In addition, the suggestions that have been made here, point more in the direction of Delete Thief. Too many players have the feeling that the entire game is made only for them. That you yourself have problems with the class is your problem and not the game. You've never played the class, but you expect the developer to give you all sorts of additional tools to get the most out of it with the least amount of effort. That you have no idea about balance can be seen by the fact that you bring no compensation for the thief. When u take something he should be getting also something back or not? 😇  But all i read is "take that away or give me the super ultra tools to face everything in the game! Asap!" I mean why don't you make a thief yourself then? When it is so crazy strong and kill these nasty thiefs?

Well when people like you make responses like this in the most passive aggressive way possible, can you blame these players for being so jaded that they rather see Thief gutted? I mean, I want to know. How many actual tools, not the wvw ones, Actual tools other classes have to fight back against a thief players? The only one I can think of at the top of my head is Reveal. But again, It's extremely limited, and it does nothing against a thief player who can teleport all over the place and outrun you, Let alone being able to remove Reveal as a dead eye. And most class doesn't have nearly the mobility to catch a thief, so chasing one is pointless. YET, a thief will continually harass you to no end because they feel like it, and there is nothing you can do about it, other than hoping you have the extremely rare chance of catching a thief. Any other classes is at a severe disadvantage here, cause chasing is pointless, they die in one hit, and they can easily escape whenever you DO End up catching him, and you can't easily run away either because a thief can catch up with you to continue their harassment. Your only option is to run to a tower, to a zerg, or in a keep, or use the painter. Otherwise, you're fighting a nearly hopeless battle of hunter and prey. Does that sound balance to you? No, scratch that. Does that sound fun to fight against?

But it's easier to defend thieves to the grave, ignore any of the argument made on how thief is overtuned and needs balance. It does need balance. and tell players like us that we're morons for not using wvw mechanics, when we shouldn't need it in the first place if thief was balanced. "Oh we are crying on the forums, we're bad players, we don't know how thieves work. We shouldn't be wasting our time "Crying" On the forums." Like it discredit our very valid criticism. It doesn't, just shows how immature you guys are being.

Telling us our argument are strawman at best, without ever backing it up, while at the same time, you throw suggestions that sums up as "Swing your sword blindly and hope they die from it." Or other nonsense as that. I just want more counterplay options for invisibility and their mobility in wvw, THAT isn't using wvw mechanics. Thief is easier to deal with in Structured pvp because at the very least their cowardly ways would result in you taking the point. But there's no point to deal with in wvw, at the least, points that would cost your team a win.
 

1 hour ago, Carmela.8756 said:

I don't understand such people who have nothing better to do than crying about OPness all the days in the forum. I'm going back to the game. I have already killed 3 thieves with my ranger without any additional tools. The ones that are already in the game are enough. 😉😘

 

Have fun I guess. Don't think your silly emote and flexing is impressing anyone. For all I know, you could very much lying out your kitten about fighting a thief. If I could see an unedited gameplay of someone consistently beating a thief? I'll put the money where my mouth is.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Sleepwalker.1398]

3 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

So yes stealth is a mechanical problem in the game because it is designed for PvE and not PvP.  

I doubt this.
Quite often when you stealth on a pve mob, it starts to go back to it's original position.