Make racial skills good! Make racial trait trees!

[Liewec.2896]

as the title says,

i suggest we make racial skills good! 👍

picking a race should be more than just appearance, you should also be able to think about what kind of character you want to make and what race might best fit your character!

want to make a tanky warrior? imagine if bear form was decent, toggleable and perfectly supplemented your playstyle! 💪 🐻

looking forward to mechanist and wanting to get a full robomancer experience? imagine if your asuran genius could stay in their powersuit all of the time! (and the abilities weren't awful) 🤖

prefer to play a mender/healer playstyle? imagine if rolling sylvari increased your healing and gave you potent support skills?

 

currently racial skills are borderline useless, a forgotten relic from release days.

some have a tiny niche like using bear/snow leopard form to charge short distances, but generally the choice of race makes no difference whatsoever.

 

so i propose we have a "race update" which revamps and modernises the racial skills and allows them to be more woven in to gameplay.

 

also we could get a 4th (always present) trait tree "the racial-trait tree" with traits that are based around the race and the racial skills.

for example Norns could have traits that increase their health, power and toughness, effectiveness with greatswords/hammers, and traits that enhance their shapeshift forms. 🐺

and unlocking racial-traits could be woven in with lore-rich quests,

perhaps to unlock a grandmaster trait that allows for unending and togglable shapeshifts you would be sent on a great hunt to slay several mighty beasts. 🐓🐇🐖

were as a minor trait (to boost health and toughness) would simply require winning a drinking game in hoelbrak. 🍻

 

what do other people think? is it time that racial skills were reincarnated? what kind of stuff would you like to change for your favourite race? 🙂

[The Boz.2038]

No.

No times a hundred thousand.

We actively do not want this.

I cannot express how much of a bad idea this would be.

[Liewec.2896]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

No.

We actively do not want this.

care to explain why?

[Ashgar.3024]

No thanks. You guys don't know what you're asking for here.

 

Let me show you a little chart

 

https://imgur.com/a/IcQEKVt

 

WoW has what? 18 races now including sub-races or so.

 

How many do you see in that picture and how far ahead one of them is statistically compared to all of the others?

 

 

Yeah that's entirely due to racials being "relevant."

 

Hard pass.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Liewec.2896]

so lets compromise if your worried about competitive scene.

currently racial skills are useless in WvW and disabled in SPVP,

so how about we just disable them in WVW too? noone uses them anyway.

but for PVE stuff i would very much like for racials to atleast be decent.

 

i wanna play my norn warrior as a proper norn warrior werebear.

i wanna play my asuran golemancer as a proper golemancer.

if these things are in the game i would like for them to be decent.

[Ashgar.3024]

It would be an issue for PvE as well. Back in the days you had entire guilds transfer to become Trolls in WoW cause they had a 5% damage bonus to beasts and a few of the bosses were beasts lol. You can't get away from minmaxing nowadays. Specially in a game like GW2 where making alt characters is trivial.

 

Its not like racials are entirely unusable, in my raid team we have 2 Asura Chrono Tanks and both run Technobabble on some fights. The Norn transformations and the Charrzooka are all useable in open world and even for some WvW trolling (there's videos on youtubes of people mauling people in Bear Form lol). I don't really have examples for Humans or Sylvari as i don't play Humans and my only Sylvari is a competitive toon but i'm sure you can screw around with their abilities too. Sure none of this is meta and is just silly fun, but that sounds like a good place for these abilities to be to me.

 

The game has already a lot of power gaming layers between stat sets, sigils, runes, trait builds, ability builds, weapon choices etc, leaving at least the race choice as a more cosmetic/personal one shouldn't be a problem imo.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[yoni.7015]

No thanks 

[Ashgar.3024]

Oh and last problem with this.

Revenants literally don't have racial skills due to how they're designed. Would put them at a disadvantage.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Rasimir.6239]

27 minutes ago, Liewec.2896 said:

picking a race should be more than just appearance

Hard no from me on this. I love that races in this game are cosmetic and have no impact on meta at all.

 

If you want to roleplay a golemancer, feel free to equip golem racials, golemancer runes, golem backpack and tool skins, and get yourself a couple of stacks of golem bomb consumables. I've actually played different golemancer builds on several classes, and they're more than decent if you put some thought into them.

 

For open world and story you don't need the theoretical best build, and in the hands of an experienced player, novelty builds aren't even that far behind. In fact, they're totally ok even for most if not all instanced group content, as long as you aren't chasing speed records (although a friend of mine refuses to play CoE or SE with one of my golemancers 🤣).

 

Right now each of us can choose a race that appeals to them, without gimping their character or their acceptance in pug groups. I see no valid reason to change that.

 

15 minutes ago, Liewec.2896 said:

i wanna play my norn warrior as a proper norn warrior werebear.

i wanna play my asuran golemancer as a proper golemancer.

if these things are in the game i would like for them to be decent.

That's all nice and good if the "proper golemancer" outshines the alternatives. But what if the class/role actually suits another race's skills and utilities much better? Every time there is a (perceived) best build for one race/class/role combination, there are four more races left in the dust.

[Sindust.7059]

I wouldn't mind some flavor trait lines. But I think they would have to be restricted to exclusively affect racial skills. I wouldn't mind them making those somewhat more useful in terms of utility, but none of it should be meta.

[Wolfb.7025]

I want Charr to be able to climb high cliffs without need of mounts, just like big felines can. Oh and also make them strong enough to be able to fight 2-3 humans at once without any visible disadvantage.

[The Boz.2038]

42 minutes ago, Liewec.2896 said:

care to explain why?

"To make this power DPS build work, you need to be Norn or Asura."

"The tank has 1138 toughness, you can't join this raid as Norn."

"You can't crit-cap build this if you're not Human."

And also, the added dimension of race will seriously skew balance.

"This ranger skill is useless, unless you're a Sylvari, in which case it's OP."

[The Boz.2038]

"brb, deleting my human necro because asura got the condi damage stat"

The list of lolnos just never ends.

[Ashgar.3024]

3 minutes ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

I want Charr to be able to climb high cliffs without need of mounts, just like big felines can. Oh and also make them strong enough to be able to fight 2-3 humans at once without any visible disadvantage.

Yeah i mean, current setup does require some suspension of disbelief... like the fact Charrs run on all 4s in slow-mo to keep things balanced lol.

 

Its still better than everything The Boz listed above and then some.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[DarcShriek.5829]

Great, the OP wants to give people even more reasons to kick people from their party.

 

No to this idea.

[Farohna.6247]

57 minutes ago, Ashgar.3024 said:

No thanks. You guys don't know what you're asking for here.

 

Let me show you a little chart

 

https://imgur.com/a/IcQEKVt

 

WoW has what? 18 races now including sub-races or so.

 

How many do you see in that picture and how far ahead one of them is statistically compared to all of the others?

 

 

Yeah that's entirely due to racials being "relevant."

 

Hard pass.

This.  I love that GW2 races are cosmetic.  You play them because you like their appearance or their story.  While WoW's were not always a huge significance, definitely was a deciding factor to give people an edge in PvP and races came with perks that gave them extra magic or weapon skills.  I don't think that would go over well here to have asura with a plus ten to intellect therefore they are better engineers or that charr have a strength increase so make better warriors.  Hard nope.  

Personally I have always played what I liked in games regardless.  If I have to look at it for x hours daily, I want to like it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

43 minutes ago, Ashgar.3024 said:

It would be an issue for PvE as well. Back in the days you had entire guilds transfer to become Trolls in WoW cause they had a 5% damage bonus to beasts and a few of the bosses were beasts lol. You can't get away from minmaxing nowadays. Specially in a game like GW2 where making alt characters is trivial.

 

Its not like racials are entirely unusable, in my raid team we have 2 Asura Chrono Tanks and both run Technobabble on some fights. The Norn transformations and the Charrzooka are all useable in open world and even for some WvW trolling (there's videos on youtubes of people mauling people in Bear Form lol). I don't really have examples for Humans or Sylvari as i don't play Humans and my only Sylvari is a competitive toon but i'm sure you can screw around with their abilities too. Sure none of this is meta and is just silly fun, but that sounds like a good place for these abilities to be to me.

 

The game has already a lot of power gaming layers between stat sets, sigils, runes, trait builds, ability builds, weapon choices etc, leaving at least the race choice as a more cosmetic/personal one shouldn't be a problem imo.

Some Human warriors summon the Hounds of Balthazar and use Phalanx Strength for meme healing. Technobabble is fun with a Spellbreaker as well if you're an Asuran warrior.

FWIW: Revamp the racial skills out of 2012 and into 2022, but hard pass on the traitline idea.

[Ashgar.3024]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Some Human warriors summon the Hounds of Balthazar and use Phalanx Strength for meme healing. Technobabble is fun with a Spellbreaker as well if you're an Asuran warrior.

FWIW: Revamp the racial skills out of 2012 and into 2022, but hard pass on the traitline idea.

I'd say maybe reduce the CDs on most of them.

 

But honestly even that worries me. Not having to worry about them when i make a new character is actually fun after playing WoW for so long.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Ashgar.3024 said:

I'd say maybe reduce the CDs on most of them.

 

But honestly even that worries me. Not having to worry about them when i make a new character is actually fun after playing WoW for so long.

Yeah, Anet didn't want to create a situation where certain race/class combos were mandatory because of the racial skills. At the same time that doesn't mean that the skills don't need their own tweaking, they just need to not be strictly better than the non racial options.

Its fine if they compliment builds though. Hidden Pistol is a nice evade for example, and a short CD as well. Technobabble is nice as a long daze and a fast cast. But things like Norn Bear instagibbing people is not okay (though that is more of an issue with Soulbeast and the multipliers it can stack rather than the elite).

[Ellye.9123]

I enjoy trying to make some of the current racial traits work on some builds, knowing full well that they are underpowered by design. They can sometimes fill a niche that no Elite Skill on the profession can.

 

For me, that's perfectly this way, and I wouldn't want them to be truly powerful ever.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Ellye.9123

[Ashgar.3024]

3 minutes ago, Ellye.9123 said:

I enjoy trying to make some of the current racial traits work on some builds, knowing full well that they are underpowered by design. They can sometimes fill a niche that no Elite Skill on the class can, but they do it badly.

 

For me, that's perfectly this way, and I wouldn't want them to be truly powerful ever.

 

Yeah, one silly thing i do is on Burn-bombing people on Condi Thief with the Charrzooka in WvW once they cleanse my opener. A lot of people don't see it coming lol.

 

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Bazooka.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Roda.7468]

The only way I could see this happening is if all of the racial skills functioned IDENTICALLY to each other, with different skins.

And even then, now you're having to balance something so it's not completely useless/detrimental for X class, while also needing to nerf it because it's overpowered for Y class.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Ashgar.3024 said:

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Bazooka.

That needs to be it's own parody movie. 😂

[Omega.6801]

No.

[Moira Shalaar.5620]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"To make this power DPS build work, you need to be Norn or Asura."

"The tank has 1138 toughness, you can't join this raid as Norn."

"You can't crit-cap build this if you're not Human."

And also, the added dimension of race will seriously skew balance.

"This ranger skill is useless, unless you're a Sylvari, in which case it's OP."

This is the best illustration of what ANET was trying to prevent from happening. IN what seems to be an unpopular position, I concur at least in part with the OP in desiring racial choice to have greater significance than purely cosmetic, and I was disappointed when racial skills were thoroughly nerfed into balance oblivion. 

But rather than the options recommended by the OP and for the same reasons that have been beaten to death already, I would propose minor passive buffs tied to race and zone; buffs that are largely inconsequential in the scheme of combat and skill balance. Perhaps a speed boost (30%?) in home region maps, a small MF bump (5%? 10%?) a small XP bump, and (My favorite) an increased contribution rate to event & heart completion, making events and renown hearts easier to do in a region home to a race than those completed in other regional zones. 

I'm welcome to all the criticism this might bring as well, just my own mental meanderings over the years regarding the (to me) sad state of race choice in GW2.