Marjory & Kas?

[Silvanfan.9872]

I've not played in a really long time, and finished the latest living word release before The End of Dragons. When you ask Marjory how her relationship is with Kasmeer, she gets really defensive, and kind of snaps at you. Did something happen lore-wise that made them fall apart, or at least be miserable now? After Belinda died, I understand that Marjory was grieving, but she never seemed to come back from that, and just seems so unhappy now. I don't even think I've seen them together since HoT's living world. I *think* they're always on separate maps, right?

 

Their relationship thrilled me at first (yay for queer representation!, especially as they could not be more different), but I found another post on here that mentioned that their relationship seemed doomed to fail, due to their incompatibility and the way their story is being written. I'm not demanding a "Happily Ever After", but it just seems so abrupt, you know?

[mythical.6315]

It seemed to start going downhill when Kasmeer abandoned her during the Balth reveal episode. 

[Farohna.6247]

I feel like their relationship is strained a bit with all the events that have happened.  Belinda's death, elder dragons, etc.  Very little time to go us on as a couple.  It could be interpreted as simply now is not a good time to talk about personal matters with the current situation, and Jory staying focused on the moment.  It is rather abrupt though and a very questionable everything is fine.  

Hopefully they are just having some ups and downs as all relationships have.  I do like that they both have their own separate responsibilities and aren't always together, and maybe they'll get some personal time together between stories.

[Randulf.7614]

Season 3 caused a schism between them. After that, relationship stuff wasn’t really a narrative that needed telling since the story was suffering enough trying to focus as it was. Plus the writers chose to concentrate on 2-3 members of the team at a time. If Kasmeer and Marjory only appear together, that doesn’t really give others a chance and again comes back to their relationship always being brought up.
 

Kasmeer’s return to a societal position and more importantly her questioning of aspects of her faith, have been more relevant background for the PoF era.

I suspect they might touch upon it in EoD, but it wasn’t left abrupt. It was all explained and covered  after LS3 Ep 5 and in short dialogues after. They never fully split up and I think even went on an off scene mission to monitor Kralkatorrik in early ls4 and by the time they returned, things were too apocalyptic to be focused on anything but Aurene and Kralk.

[Farohna.6247]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Season 3 caused a schism between them. After that, relationship stuff wasn’t really a narrative that needed telling since the story was suffering enough trying to focus as it was. Plus the writers chose to concentrate on 2-3 members of the team at a time. If Kasmeer and Marjory only appear together, that doesn’t really give others a chance and again comes back to their relationship always being brought up.
 

Kasmeer’s return to a societal position and more importantly her questioning of aspects of her faith, have been more relevant background for the PoF era.

I suspect they might touch upon it in EoD, but it wasn’t left abrupt. It was all explained and covered  after LS3 Ep 5 and in short dialogues after. They never fully split up and I think even went on an off scene mission to monitor Kralkatorrik in early ls4 and by the time they returned, things were too apocalyptic to be focused on anything but Aurene and Kralk.

Oh that's a good summary, I had forgotten some of that.  Thanks!

[Ashantara.8731]

On 2/6/2022 at 9:29 PM, Silvanfan.9872 said:

I've not played in a really long time, and finished the latest living word release before The End of Dragons. When you ask Marjory how her relationship is with Kasmeer, she gets really defensive, and kind of snaps at you. Did something happen lore-wise that made them fall apart, or at least be miserable now?

Yes: Kasmeer froze in front of Balthazar and allowed him to nearly kill Marjory. She suffered severe burning injuries. They supposedly worked it out afterwards, but things have never been the same since. Oh, and before that, Marjory went off on a dangerous solo mission without telling Kasmeer about it - that did not help, either.

I really don't like their portrayal a lot of the time, though. The whole relationship has been way too cliché: lesbian couple, one dominant, the other shy; calling each other names of endearment (honey, dove, etc) 24/7 in front of everyone instead of their actual names; one appearing unhealthily dependent on the other; working through the issues in their relationship in front of everyone when there are other important matters at hand; and, of course, all the constant drama and doubts, geez...

As a gay woman, I was thrilled at first, like you, to see a lesbian couple in an RPG. However, the writing for them has been subpar - something that can be said for most of the other Dragon's Watch guild members as well, I guess.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Ashantara.8731
Accidentally wrote "Destiny's Edge" instead of "Dragon's Watch" - oops!

[Gorem.8104]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Yes: Kasmeer froze in front of Balthazar and allowed him to nearly kill Marjory. She suffered severe burning injuries. They supposedly worked it out afterwards, but things have never been the same since. Oh, and before that, Marjory went off on a dangerous solo mission without telling Kasmeer about it - that did not help, either.

I really don't like their portrayal a lot of the time, though. The whole relationship has been way too cliché: lesbian couple, one dominant, the other shy; calling each other names of endearment (honey, dove, etc) 24/7 in front of everyone instead of their actual names; one appearing unhealthily dependent on the other; working through the issues in their relationship in front of everyone when there are other important matters at hand; and, of course, all the constant drama and doubts, geez...

As a gay woman, I was thrilled at first, like you, to see a lesbian couple in an RPG. However, the writing for them has been subpar - something that can be said for most of the other Destiny's Edge guild members as well, I guess.

Unfortunately, that is usually how they write them in media, so they can be "praised for representation" even if in real life, no one acts like they do. So that, if you say anything against it for say, bad writing, you get attacked. Look at your reactions already in 2hours. The people saying its good are the ones which it doesn't represent and the people who it does represent, get confusion reactions. Like I'm BI, but the last thing I want to see is BI characters, cause I know they will only exist purely for PR reasons cause writers think its a get out of jail free card. 

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

3 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

The whole relationship has been way too cliché: lesbian couple, one dominant, the other shy; calling each other names of endearment (honey, dove, etc) 24/7 in front of everyone instead of their actual names; one appearing unhealthily dependent on the other; working through the issues in their relationship in front of everyone when there are other important matters at hand; and, of course, all the constant drama and doubts, geez...

Remember the episode of The Boys where maeve's gf was asked to be potrayed as a short haired (little masculine) dominant one and maeve as a shy one, i thought they were just joking, but now i understand its satire.

[FilliaCopt.4586]

I am not sure the problem is the balthazar incident, but more likely the fact that Kasmeer seems to be Queen Jennah's new pet (since she got her noble title back), and Marjory might simply be annoyed that she is never here for her.

Even when she calls out for her through comm in bjora marches, the girl does not answer.

 

In real life, I am pretty sure people not answering to their boyfriend/girlfriend when they call is a very common couple issue from what i have seen so far (unfortunately). Even more when it becomes an habit.

Edited February 7, 2022 by FilliaCopt.4586

[Zola.6197]

A dev on Reddit said that Marjory and Kasmeer were not forgotten and were favorites among the studio a few months back when someone brought up their lack of screen time individually (more Marjory) and their oddly long-standing tension as a couple, seemingly implying they would be a focus in EoDs to some degree. I want to say it was Kwan Perng?

Well based on the livestreams and promo info/trailers since then, it seems pretty assured they’ll be some of our main companions for our canthan adventure. Marjory is long overdue for… literally any plotline lol.

Edit: here’s the Reddit thread 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Farohna.6247]

Long as Marjory doesn't go back to calling the commander "boss" all the time, storyline is welcome

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Every relationship has issues, there's no such thing as a perfect relationship, either friends or lovers. The biggest problem seems to be that Kas was returned to her noble status and spends all her time away (well, at home, actually), while Marjory is more of an adventurer who takes more to the Commander's lifestyle.

 

Its heavily implied by IBS that Marjory left the Priory to join the Vigil after Bjora. She's gone from detective to reaper, always progressing along while Kas is actually regressing to where she used to be.

 

I imagine we'll see this as a major plot point in Cantha.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Ashantara.8731]

18 hours ago, FilliaCopt.4586 said:

I am not sure the problem is the balthazar incident, but more likely the fact that Kasmeer seems to be Queen Jennah's new pet (since she got her noble title back), and Marjory might simply be annoyed that she is never here for her.

Wasn't it the other way round before Kasmeer was redeemed and got her title back?

That's what I meant by "lesbian clichés" in writing: communication always looks like a soap opera. 😅

5 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

Long as Marjory doesn't go back to calling the commander "boss" all the time, storyline is welcome

All of Dragon's Watch were doing that for a time. It got replaced later by "Commander." Whether that was an upgrade, I am uncertain. 😄

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Its heavily implied by IBS that Marjory left the Priory to join the Vigil after Bjora. She's gone from detective to reaper, always progressing along while Kas is actually regressing to where she used to be.

That's actually a very good observation. I have not thought of it before. Yes, they seem to be moving apart. Very soapy indeed, and not what many RPG players are interested in seeing in "epic" story-telling (re: private relationship issues).

As I mentioned on another thread, I would rather see Dragon's Watch disbanded than having to endure any more of this sort of writing for them - they have all been going on my nerves for a while now, with the exception of Gorrik and Blish, but neither is/was actually in the guild, so they don't count in this context.

Marjory: too headstrong - she used to be my favorite while she was smooth, smart and somewhat dark and mysterious
Kasmeer: too co-dependent
Canach: too arrogant - he used to be funny when his humor was witty/snarky, now he is being portrayed as a plain narcissist
Rytlock: often a grumpy whiner, which I always found out of character for a charr
Taimi: oh boy...
Braham: the dimwit jokes have been taken too far to take the character seriously (e.g., as one that is willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good)
Caithe: rrright, where did she go?

[FilliaCopt.4586]

8 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Every relationship has issues, there's no such thing as a perfect relationship, either friends or lovers. The biggest problem seems to be that Kas was returned to her noble status and spends all her time away (well, at home, actually), while Marjory is more of an adventurer who takes more to the Commander's lifestyle.

 

Its heavily implied by IBS that Marjory left the Priory to join the Vigil after Bjora. She's gone from detective to reaper, always progressing along while Kas is actually regressing to where she used to be.

 

I imagine we'll see this as a major plot point in Cantha.

 

Well Kas is not really at home :D . She is part of the whole event in Drizzlewood coast, and she is here again for various Dragon response missions.

In the meantime, we see Marjory once in Gendarran, which is not so far from home xD

The Kas waiting at home is long gone..And the confident Marjory as well.

She indeed joined the Vigil, then again does she even know why ? She seems to be lost in outer space when it comes to decisions making.

 

Honestly I understand they want to give every characters their screentime...but that does not mean they must write the others so poorly.

And we all agree they did, with them, but as mentionned also Caithe ....is she even relevant appart from being the blue glowy voice of Aurene that we never hear? 😄

 

 

 

[Gibson.4036]

What relationship can survive when whenever there is trouble they run away from each other instead of to each other?

[The Greyhawk.9107]

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

What relationship can survive when whenever there is trouble they run away from each other instead of to each other?

Such a state calls into question if there really is a relationship anymore.

[DragonMoon.6098]

36 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Such a state calls into question if there really is a relationship anymore.

I've pretty much gotten the impression that they've been leading up to a parting of the ways with those two. 

[Rensis.1034]

1 hour ago, DragonMoon.6098 said:

I've pretty much gotten the impression that they've been leading up to a parting of the ways with those two. 

I kinda belvieve they are not together anymore, and they were evasive about it because with several world-end scenarios running around they didn't want to bother the Commander with their relationship issues aswell. I think one of the plot points of EoD will be that they either make up and become a couple again, remain separated but can work together as friends, or split up entirely. Currently my money is on the second but it can go either way.

[FilliaCopt.4586]

1 hour ago, Rensis.1034 said:

I kinda belvieve they are not together anymore, and they were evasive about it because with several world-end scenarios running around they didn't want to bother the Commander with their relationship issues aswell. I think one of the plot points of EoD will be that they either make up and become a couple again, remain separated but can work together as friends, or split up entirely. Currently my money is on the second but it can go either way.

Not so sure... Why bother making them walk from their house to the wintersday event together as a couple, this year for the first time, if they broke up...that would be a real nonsense...

[Zola.6197]

I certainly think we’ll see something regarding their relationship, either reaffirming it or giving a little more spotlight to any turmoil. Regardless, I feel they’ll have worked through any issues by the end of the expansion.

It would be interesting to see Kasmeer and Marjory’s relationship fracturing while Taimi and Gorrik’s comes together, though not sure I really want to see the two ladies broken up.

Really eager at the prospect of individual development for Marjory as a character. She’s been neglected since Belinda merged into her sword. Really surprised she didn’t have a bigger role in the HoTs finale.

Looks like we’ll see Kasmeer in her ambassador role, which I do like. Her dialogue with Crecia in the FoR DRM was some of my favorite dialogue from her. I felt like the writers did a nice job showcasing her talents as a negotiator/an ambassador.

Their individual situations aside, it’ll be nice to see them get some scenes as a couple. Hopefully they’ll address the apparent unrest in their relationship one way or another.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Zola.6197

[DragonMoon.6098]

6 hours ago, FilliaCopt.4586 said:

Not so sure... Why bother making them walk from their house to the wintersday event together as a couple, this year for the first time, if they broke up...that would be a real nonsense...

I was playing actively during this past Wintersday festival and totally didn't notice them anywhere. I looked for any of the companions too, after noticing Braham at the last Dragonbash. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

6 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

I certainly think we’ll see something regarding their relationship, either reaffirming it or giving a little more spotlight to any turmoil. Regardless, I feel they’ll have worked through any issues by the end of the expansion.

 

It would be interesting to see Kasmeer and Marjory’s relationship fracturing while Taimi and Gorrik’s comes together, though not sure I really want to see the two ladies broken up.

 

Really eager at the prospect of individual development for Marjory as a character. She’s been neglected since Belinda merged into her sword. Really surprised she didn’t have a bigger role in the HoTs finale.

 

Looks like we’ll see Kasmeer in her ambassador role, which I do like. Her dialogue with Crecia in the FoR DRM was some of my favorite dialogue from her. I felt like the writers did a nice job showcasing her talents as a negotiator/an ambassador.

 

Their individual situations aside, it’ll be nice to see them

get some scenes as a couple. Hopefully they’ll address the apparent unrest in their relationship one way or another.

Marjory is Canthan I think? So she'll definitely be getting a bigger role (likely as Kasmeer was in PoF).

[FilliaCopt.4586]

4 hours ago, DragonMoon.6098 said:

I was playing actively during this past Wintersday festival and totally didn't notice them anywhere. I looked for any of the companions too, after noticing Braham at the last Dragonbash. 

 

It's been stated that it was the first time this year.

[Ashantara.8731]

19 hours ago, FilliaCopt.4586 said:

 

It's been stated that it was the first time this year.

Oooh, that's sweet! I totally did not spot them, either... hmph.

[FilliaCopt.4586]

I am curious about jory's weapon swap in EOD. She is back to axe / dagger build and dropped her very canthan katana...strange move.