Dragon Stat Will Be Pretty Cool for Revenant

[Justine.6351]

High power/ferocity with minor vita/precision. Like a swapped precision/ferocity marauder stat set. Vitality without over capping crit chance.

[Raiken.1476]

I feel like the Ritualist stat combo will be stronger for condition Renegades providing Alacrity.

[Thon.3780]

It is 2 side coin

for Rev , it will improve damage either condi or pure damage style.

but it also improves others profession performance as well 

 

so team will decide again who will be in slot 

[Infusion.7149]

You can figure out the consequence easily. Put in viper's pieces in place of any Dragon pieces in the GW2skills editor, convert all condition damage (main stat) to ferocity. Expertise would be vitality in the Dragon set.

I don't think it will be used as full Dragons set, likely specs that can crit cap without help would use accuracy sigil (you lose 3-10% damage from impact sigil) and gain 8% crit damage over berserker at the cost of 144 power. This would be more beneficial in raids and strikes where impact sigil doesn't have full 10% damage mod.

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Jthug.9506]

The ferocity set will be amazing for power ren, in fact I think power ren may bench higher than power vin lol.

[Zaret.1450]

dragon would be the meta rev power build if it didnt have vit, because as rev you almost allwais overcap crit chance, on wvw though i think itll be the meta on herald and vindi at least, on a side note i still hope we get gs3 to pull enemies, and spear to do a lot of dmg.

[Obtena.7952]

Should move this topic to Guardian.  Radiance build with 100% Resolution uptime makes Dragon prefix a winner.

[Thekk.9783]

14 hours ago, Raiken.1476 said:

I feel like the Ritualist stat combo will be stronger for condition Renegades providing Alacrity.

The problem with that combo is that concentration is a minor stat... so you'll get the same amount as celestial. So it becomes a question of how much that extra condition damage is worth compared to power + precision + ferocity (and short bow has a decent power scaling). Might still win out, I have no idea, but the gap will likely be small. On the bright side, that means not having to deal with the toughness headache.

Feels like they tailored the thing for Harbinger more than anything else.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Thekk.9783

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Should move this topic to Guardian.  Radiance build with 100% Resolution uptime makes Dragon prefix a winner.

Rev gets 33 (renegade while full endurance)  or 40% crit chance under fury, which is more relevant than 25% under resolution which is a boon you cannot rely on other people for.

You might as well say put it in the ranger or soulbeast section...

Edited February 12, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Obtena.7952]

16 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Rev gets 33 (renegade while full endurance)  or 40% crit chance under fury, which is more relevant than 25% under resolution which is a boon you cannot rely on other people for.

You might as well say put it in the ranger or soulbeast section...

well, Guardian is far from needing to rely on other people for Resolution and the point is that Guardian doesn't cap crit as easily as Revenant, so the small stat precision is more useful for Guardian than Revenant. 

Rev can already cap a crit build and use Zerkers/Valks. I guess the theorycrafter in me says it's easier to balance your gear prefixes over precision compromises than vitality so ... not so sure if Dragon gear is the awesome thing that it appears to be in many cases.  I do look forward to it being added to my fav build editor to see if there are optimizations with it. Now I think about it, it will really put the fire into crit capped Reaper with Decimate Defenses. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Infusion.7149]

43 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

well, Guardian is far from needing to rely on other people for Resolution and the point is that Guardian doesn't cap crit as easily as Revenant, so the small stat precision is more useful for Guardian than Revenant. 

I mean, we can already cap a crit build and use Zerkers/Valks. I guess the theorycrafter in me says it's easier to balance your gear prefixes over precision than vitality so ... not so sure if Dragon gear is the awesome thing that it appears to be.  

For 100% uptime? It isn't remotely realistic if you're moving around and it requires playing with greatsword and Righteous Instincts. Without Righteous Instincts you only get 10% crit chance from traits rather than 35% under resolution. If all you are thinking about is PVE , sure. Standing in the same spot for 5 seconds to get some resolution on greatsword isn't a great idea otherwise ; without boon duration or alacrity it is less than 50% uptime unless you plan on using your heal skill for 8 seconds out of 24+ seconds. That's why people usually stack DH.

Even in fractals because the shared bane signet is more highly valued than personal crit chance, power DH needs to use 203 AR (see https://discretize.eu/builds/guardian/power-dragonhunter/).

Typically spotter isn't required for power daredevil , holo , renegade, skirmishing soulbeast (for obvious reasons). On reaper there's a tradeoff if you want crit chance outside of shroud (via Decimate Defenses' 2% per stack of vulnerability or by running curses for 2% crit chance per condition).

For merged skirmishing soulbeast you get +150 precision from merge bonus (Pack Alpha , it's only +75 in WvW), +100 precision from spotter, and 10% from Vicious Quarry. Flanking yields yet another 10% crit chance from Hunter's Tactics. If you aren't flanking you receive +22% crit chance with fury , 32% if you flank. Currently in PVP the core valk build relies on opening strike in marksmanship and sigil of vision.

For holo (and power scrapper) : hematic focus is 10% vs bleeding, high caliber is 15% in 600 range. Total is 25% crit chance, full berserker is just over 50% , fury is 20% meaning you just need ~5% from banner/spotter.

For daredevil you get 7% crit chance from flanking (Twin Fangs) , Keen observer gives 10% while over 90% health , signet of agility is 180 precision and without it you need to run different gear. This is far more unreliable.

Both Berserker and elementalists of all specs have signets that provide 180 precision, but that isn't as strong as having a trait that reliably gives you crit chance. It's for this reason power DPS tempest needs signet of fire and sigil of accuracy (7% crit chance) in 10 man content. Weavers have 10% crit chance versus targets with weakness. Outside PVE Berserker is quite underwhelming because relying on banner for additional 50 precision from Doubled Standards simply isn't reliable.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Buran.3796]

23 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

High power/ferocity with minor vita/precision. Like a swapped precision/ferocity marauder stat set. Vitality without over capping crit chance.

   Tons of points wasted in vitality. If you want max dps you go berserker or viper, if you want to be tanky while doing heaps of damage you go dire or trailblazer. Vitality in trailblazer or dire works well due condi requires 2 stats to max out damage; with physical damage you need 3 stats...

[Virdo.1540]

14 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Tons of points wasted in vitality. If you want max dps you go berserker or viper, if you want to be tanky while doing heaps of damage you go dire or trailblazer. Vitality in trailblazer or dire works well due condi requires 2 stats to max out damage; with physical damage you need 3 stats...

Its only an damage increase for builds that gets over 100% crit-chance with berserker. For others its pretty much wasted potential damage, yeah

[Buran.3796]

1 minute ago, Virdo.1540 said:

Its only an damage increase for builds that gets over 100% crit-chance with berserker. For others its pretty much wasted potential damage, yeah

   In full berserker with a Vindicator you'll need Scholar runes, the Roiling Mist trait and all infusions being +5 precision to reach 99% crit chance and ~234 crit damage (with foods). You can use Accuracy sigils to get an extra 7% precision to save 105 precision points which can be spent in Dragon stats, but I don't think it would change the thing too much. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAExzlZCsTglCMUgpCsSgJ7lYsD-zRIYRU/XC2eACp3yoiWA-e

    If all, will benefit power Renegade due Brutal Momentum +33% crit chance (and with the sigils) do provides room for shaving ~600 stat points from precision. That's enough for a ring and an ear ring. But of them, ~210 points would be used in vitality so i don't think that the gains in ferocity would be very significative.

[Justine.6351]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Tons of points wasted in vitality. If you want max dps you go berserker or viper, if you want to be tanky while doing heaps of damage you go dire or trailblazer. Vitality in trailblazer or dire works well due condi requires 2 stats to max out damage; with physical damage you need 3 stats...

Not everyone plays raids and high tier fractals.

[Zaret.1450]

for pve (raids and fractals, because ary but open world isnt relevant in meta builds you can go almost naked to open world and play just fine) is not that good because of the vit, if we gotsomething similar without vit(i dont think we do?) it could be great, as for wvw there it would be great and for pvp too maybe

[Obtena.7952]

13 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Not everyone plays raids and high tier fractals.

True ... but even then, the prefix is questionable on a class that has lots of damage mitigation. 

Dragon prefix exists to pump ferocity due to crit capping; the vitality is a throw away stat on Revenant and the precision is pretty questionable if you are already capping via traits. Unfortunately, it's still a DPS increase; you lose 15% power because it's a 4 stat prefix but at crit cap, the amount of Ferocity you get is about 30% increase in DPS. 

Really, I just think Anet missed an opportunity to do something exceptional here. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

40 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

True ... but even then, the prefix is questionable on a class that has lots of damage mitigation. 

Dragon prefix exists to pump ferocity due to crit capping; the vitality is a throw away stat on Revenant and the precision is pretty questionable if you are already capping via traits. Unfortunately, it's still a DPS increase; you lose 15% power because it's a 4 stat prefix but at crit cap, the amount of Ferocity you get is about 30% increase in DPS. 

A lot of damage mitigation?  Rev?

[Justine.6351]

2 hours ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

A lot of damage mitigation?  Rev?

Rofl yeah was wondering on this one too. Maybe they were thinking jalis or something.

I didn't specify but me personally I was thinking roiling mists + renegade where you end up with like 78% base crit chance.

I think roiling mists only + mara only over caps crit when they start looking at wvw specific buffs like claims and bloodlust. Obviously that comes at a ferocity cost though.

[Buran.3796]

16 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Not everyone plays raids and high tier fractals.

  Have been 4 years since the last time I played a raid, never did a fractal over 60 and never entered in a strike mission. For open world PvE and/or WvW  (which are the game modes I play + PvP) I'll run either berserker, viper or TB, and for PvP either zerker or demolisher. I think that Dragon, with wasted points in vitality, is something that could interest a Guardian (but I'm not sure if really worth it over marauder or valkyrie; I guess in WvW/PvE with the granularity in stat distribution that those game modes allow could have some use, (albeit didn't saw any special new precision feature in the Willbender to take advantage of) but in PvP I doubt it would have any.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Buran.3796

[Obtena.7952]

On 2/13/2022 at 1:39 PM, Justine.6351 said:

Rofl yeah was wondering on this one too. Maybe they were thinking jalis or something.

I didn't specify but me personally I was thinking roiling mists + renegade where you end up with like 78% base crit chance.

I think roiling mists only + mara only over caps crit when they start looking at wvw specific buffs like claims and bloodlust. Obviously that comes at a ferocity cost though.

If you do full dragon, you are overcapped with Roiling and Renegade when you have Fury and full Endurance. There really isn't a way to optimize DPS with this prefix on a Renegade because DPS optimizing a capped crit build requires full Dragon. Maybe if you aren't using Renegade and crit cap with Assassins/Dragon setup. 

So basically, use Dragon if you are over crit capping with Marauders ... otherwise, I don't see a reason to use it. 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Icetea.3204]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:00 AM, Raiken.1476 said:

I feel like the Ritualist stat combo will be stronger for condition Renegades providing Alacrity.

With current balance I don't really see that.

Condi renegade can make use out of every stat provided by celestial. Precision for the crit sigils, power for the battle scars damage and obviously condi damage, expertise and concentration.

Imo celestial would still be better for condi renegade providing solo alacrity.

The only "issue" celestial has is the toughness, but tanking on renegade is easy anyway, so that barely matters.

[Yasai.3549]

As long as Power is reliant on 3 stats for performance, you will never be able to run away from building precision.

Even if you run mostly Dragon, you will need some Assassins to get crit cap, unless your intention is to run Renegade. 
 

[Obtena.7952]

9 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

As long as Power is reliant on 3 stats for performance, you will never be able to run away from building precision.

Even if you run mostly Dragon, you will need some Assassins to get crit cap, unless your intention is to run Renegade. 
 

My information is quite old but full disclosure here: IIRC, if you hit 3000 power and are crit capped, THEN ferocity becomes the preferred stat. Back in the day that was just a fantasy but now ... we have situations where this could be relevant. 

 

[hash.8462]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever tested Brutal Momentum uptime for various raid or strike bosses?

Against the test golem you always have 100% uptime, but how much is in a real fight?