Mostly for PVE players, re-utilizing old maps that have so much potential.

[Eli Fereta.5970]

What do you guys think about, maybe alongside a LW season, or just as opposed to one, Anet would add more life into older maps. There are such amazing places in the GW2 older maps that are just so sadly under-utilized. Sometimes I'll just be roaming around and doing map completions, or whatever, and notice how so many areas which seem to have taken A LOT of work to create, and just artistic masterpieces be so dead when they have such great potential to hold some unique events with cool/challenging mechanics. (I always get a lot of people dragging me for being so idealistic on my posts, but I can't help it, that's just my personality haha.) I think meta map event design in GW2 is actually so great and well thought out, and really fun when you can get a population working on them. They wouldn't have to be crazy long 1–2-hour map metas like Drizzlewood Coast or anything, but just something that could be done with 10-15 players and less than an hour, scaling up in difficulty with more players around. 

 

I'm thinking older maps like the desolation, taking players through the sulfurous wastes and rivers to hunt down a giant Jujundu world boss or whatever people come up with. Or something that utilizes that beautiful giant frozen palace in the desert highlands. HoT maps I think have enough large-scale events, plus some of them are miserable getting around but I think they do a good job with large scale events in general. I know PoF is more focused on bounties, but they're just not as fun as like drakkar in bjora marshes for example. And I also know core Tyria has world bosses, so it doesn't need more world bosses, but like some maps could use a fun chain of events that might give the world a little more life. Just because these things already exist doesn't mean we can't get a couple more things that could add to the game if implemented well and were rewarding enough. Also, the excuse for having more reasons to visit not commonly ventured areas kinda peaks my interest.

 

In some instances, maybe instead of adding a new meta over what certain maps already have, it might make more sense to combine certain events and create a semi map meta event chain that leads up to a bigger event. Especially in core Tyria. For example, in the starter maps for each race. Such as Queensdale, where there is that event that you have to protect that very first keep from waves of centaurs. It could be similar to the human starting tutorial where you have to protect the city, put out fires, build barricades or whatever. Taking you through the farms to that keep where THEN you could protect it from the waves of centaurs. the past that into the battle fields where u have to destroy catapults, then finally leading up to some fight with a centaur boss, or giant that giant stone hand boss summon that u fight in the tutorial but more challenging and more mechanics and steps to defeat it. (this is obviously a rough quickly thought up as I type idea so don't get too caught up in these details cuz it could be done in any way). Like all these events kind of already exist within the maps and the game but just reorganized into a larger scale event chain. This could promote activity in the older starter maps and teach new players about map metas and stuff before they reach the grand scales one that appear later on in the game. I feel like Map meta chains were kinda abruptly introduced after core that I never really knew what was happening until I like made it a point to sit and pay extra attention to what was happening. It's a huge feature of the game and giving it more attention would help people understand what kind of mmo GW2 is. Also, with the new underwater action takes that EoD had with its trailer, they could actually utilize all of that unused underwater space in the core game. (Along-side some underwater combat updates haha). 

 

I believe it would add so much to the world building of GW2 and it would be a way where Anet could put out new content without having to build completely new maps for them so it wouldn't require a lot of work or resources for the development team. They wouldn't have to be too tied into the main story and they could just be "side quests" type events. And I'd just love to see more of these beautiful maps utilized better.

 

What do you guys think? What problems could occur because of an addition or update like this? What kinds of rewards do y'all think would bring higher level/more seasoned players back to early maps to do event chains like this? If ya'll were presented with an opportunity to restructure some older maps, how would yall go about it? I like to hear people's insights and creative ideas. XD

 

Side note: if you're just gunna comment something like "anet won't do anything like this so this is a bad idea" or "anet needs to fix this other thing first unrelated to your post" or something along the lines of not really expanding on the idea then you don't really need to waste your time replying. If that's your first instinct for a reply then you're missing the point of my idea entirely. XD This is obviously a hypothetical 'what-if' scenario that I just want to discuss, on a discussion board lol.

[kharmin.7683]

Players will tend to migrate where the time/reward ratio is most favorable.  With Anet continuing to expand the realm, certain maps will suffer lower population at times than others as players spread out.  I'm sure if there were an answer to this, it would have been put into place by now.

[mungozen.2379]

8 minutes ago, Eli Fereta.5970 said:

What do you guys think? What problems could occur because of an addition or update like this? What kinds of rewards do y'all think would bring higher level/more seasoned players back to early maps to do event chains like this? If ya'll were presented with an opportunity to restructure some older maps, how would yall go about it? I like to hear people's insights and creative ideas. XD

Conservation of Magic - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

This is one of several times they have done exactly what you suggest in Core Tyria.

Side Stories - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

The issue is, who actually knows where these came from or why they exist?  I've met many players who are new and have no idea what the Bandits around Tyria are actually part of, or why there are Ley-Line events in multiple zones.  At the time they launched, it was an interesting and engaging activity to be a part of but, now, many years later, it's become part of the background to these zones and a lot of the time, forgotten content.

[Eli Fereta.5970]

2 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Conservation of Magic - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

This is one of several times they have done exactly what you suggest in Core Tyria.

Side Stories - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

The issue is, who actually knows where these came from or why they exist?  I've met many players who are new and have no idea what the Bandits around Tyria are actually part of, or why there are Ley-Line events in multiple zones.  At the time they launched, it was an interesting and engaging activity to be a part of but, now, many years later, it's become part of the background to these zones and a lot of the time, forgotten content.

Do you think that's just because the events surrounding them are just so simple and lack the immersion of newer event chains? A lot of the times I feel like the early events in core tyria are so basic and quick and boring that it's hard to pay attention anyways. There's no engagement needed. A good dialogue edit might help a lot with that, for lore building at least. As for the conservation of magic thing, that's more of an achievement list talking u from one map to the next. it doesn't particularly help build a maps like "soul" for lack of better word. Like those events don't really encompass the map as much as they do encompass the achievements. I wasn't really considering adding like a new antagonist and spreading them onto different maps, but more so taking the current lore and uniqueness of each zone and building upon that. My goal was to kind of feel more engaged with the specific map and making that map special for that reason. The inquest can be anywhere. but like how I mentioned the desolation, i would like to see an event chain that helped grow that maps cool features. With its unique geography and bestiary. Like were really getting to learn about that region as opposed to just like throwing Aether blade enemies in Caledon forest as a new event chain. , but more so something relevant so sylvari issues, that can add to our relationship with that race and have us engage with the old maps more. Ya know? haha

[Eli Fereta.5970]

29 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Players will tend to migrate where the time/reward ratio is most favorable.  With Anet continuing to expand the realm, certain maps will suffer lower population at times than others as players spread out.  I'm sure if there were an answer to this, it would have been put into place by now.

I don't think that that's exactly the case with the "if they could fix it, they would have."  Sometimes they do just have other priorities that they're focused on. You're missing the point of my post. The population thing is true though, but that's why they could consider certain rewards to draw players in. and they could do it in a minimally committed ways, event chains squeezed in between major metas for those who just want to do something quick, and pick up a quick reward such as important crafting materials or whatever. The real response isnt if there was an answer they would have done it already, but just more so if they wanted to they would have. lol but again that's not what my post was about.

[mungozen.2379]

11 minutes ago, Eli Fereta.5970 said:

Do you think that's just because the events surrounding them are just so simple and lack the immersion of newer event chains? A lot of the times I feel like the early events in core tyria are so basic and quick and boring that it's hard to pay attention anyways. There's no engagement needed. A good dialogue edit might help a lot with that, for lore building at least. As for the conservation of magic thing, that's more of an achievement list talking u from one map to the next. it doesn't particularly help build a maps like "soul" for lack of better word. Like those events don't really encompass the map as much as they do encompass the achievements. I wasn't really considering adding like a new antagonist and spreading them onto different maps, but more so taking the current lore and uniqueness of each zone and building upon that. My goal was to kind of feel more engaged with the specific map and making that map special for that reason. The inquest can be anywhere. but like how I mentioned the desolation, i would like to see an event chain that helped grow that maps cool features. With its unique geography and bestiary. Like were really getting to learn about that region as opposed to just like throwing Aether blade enemies in Caledon forest as a new event chain. , but more so something relevant so sylvari issues, that can add to our relationship with that race and have us engage with the old maps more. Ya know? haha

There are stories being told within the Zones that do talk about what has happened or is happening to the region and it's inhabitants.  If a player is rushing through the content, not taking time to listen and read, then they are missing out on the thing you are asking for that is already in game.

When they added the Side Stories it was done so within the context of the overall story of the game.  Progressing into Living World content primarily.  These Side Stories were affecting the whole of Tyria, which is why they were spread so widely.  It is also why they fail to be as engaging for players who were not playing at the time they went live.  Newer players simply do not have the context for why these Side Stories exist until they progress through the game to the time they become relevant.

And that may be another valid talking point.  Time.  When you start out in Tyria, the year is 1325AE, and the stories in Core are a snapshot of that moment in time.  If the original concept for Living World had stuck, the Sylvari should have moved past the Nightmare Court and Mordremoth, and evolved into the next stage of their society after 1328AE when Mordremoth was killed.

But unfortunately, the game, it's developers and players couldn't reconcile such massive and ongoing changes to the world.  Just look at how LW Season 1 ended up, and the scar it has left on the game.

All that said, for a lot of players, content is one and done.  So adding more to 'bring people back to engage in older zones' would be a passing fancy.  Just like Side Stories, players spent a week or two playing them and then moved on.  They do not draw veteran players to older zones repeatedly. 

The one mechanic this game has that could do draw veteran players repeatedly back would be adding Meta events like AB or RIBA to Core maps.  But, consider Drizzlewood Meta.  That could have functionally taken place in an existing Core map, but why mess with existing content when they can just build a whole new Zone to tell the ongoing story?

[Eli Fereta.5970]

3 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

  That could have functionally taken place in an existing Core map, but why mess with existing content when they can just build a whole new Zone to tell the ongoing story?

Because the existing older content is so dry. It would breathe new life into the game. and it's not like to replace new content, but just like something to add to whatever already exists. Something that like adds to the new player experience and somehow rewarding enough to bring back other players. for the older core maps just kinda like restructuring currently existing events into the modern gw2 format mostly. it would really enhance the player experience. It's just like rearranging your furniture. making it more fluid and functional after you've learned what works better where, ya know?

[Freya.9075]

Anything making the game more alive is good. However I don’t know how they would be able to do that without ruining what the game already has. I do feel they make the older maps still populated with achievements, collections, meta events and dailies. Personally those things are what makes me come back again and again to older maps. Cause I like doing those things and i don’t find the content there “dry” as you call it. compared to other games they do well with older content. Could they do better? Maybe. But the trick is to figure out how to do that in a good way. 

[Eli Fereta.5970]

5 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Anything making the game more alive is good. However I don’t know how they would be able to do that without ruining what the game already has. I do feel they make the older maps still populated with achievements, collections, meta events and dailies. Personally those things are what makes me come back again and again to older maps. Cause I like doing those things and i don’t find the content there “dry” as you call it. compared to other games they do well with older content. Could they do better? Maybe. But the trick is to figure out how to do that in a good way. 

I just really love the modern GW2 metas. And I think there would be a lot value in going back and modernizing the event chains in the older games.

[Valisha.8650]

just add some metas to old maps

[Eli Fereta.5970]

2 minutes ago, SovietVixen.7396 said:

just add some metas to old maps

essentially haha. 

[Gibson.4036]

I’d love to see Wizards Fief used for something. Maybe we could get a meta that lets us enter the floating castle.

[Ruisen.9471]

There are a number of lv 80 maps like most of the LW Season 3 maps (except bitterfrost) that are pretty much ghost towns now, which is a shame since some of them (like Bloodstone fen, Draconic Mons, etc) are really unique.   It would be nice to see some changes to these older maps (and maybe some core lv 80 GW2 maps too) to make them more popular again.  It would add alot more content choice to the game, and the maps are already made so they don't need to put in the effort of an entire LW season to make the content either.

Edit: just realized someone else literally thought the same and made a thread about it yesterday.   Great minds think alive I suppose 😛

Edited February 16, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Ruisen.9471]

23 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Players will tend to migrate where the time/reward ratio is most favorable.  With Anet continuing to expand the realm, certain maps will suffer lower population at times than others as players spread out.  I'm sure if there were an answer to this, it would have been put into place by now.

They could do balancing patches on older zones to increase their reward ratio.     So many of the LW season 3 maps are just sitting there collecting dust.

Imo, its a really good use of their time too.   it takes ALOT of time to make a LW episode, but it would only take a fraction of the time to update rewards/metas in old, unplayed maps to bring them as relevant content again.   People replay good metas for years, so the time/payoff is enormous.    

Some people are worried about "changing" the old maps, but honestly I don't think the maps itself or the story needs to be changed.   People replay for the meta events, and those are what I think needs to be addressed.  Honestly, just rebalancing their rewards would probably fix half the issues, and rebalancing rewards in no way changes the map or the "new player experience".

Edited February 16, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[TexZero.7910]

Thanks, but no thanks.

Maps are essentially frozen in time and really should remain that way. We've seen what happens and poorly it's receieved when Anet drastically changes maps. Would much rather new maps and zones than doing upkeep on old zones.

[kharmin.7683]

15 minutes ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

They could do balancing patches on older zones to increase their reward ratio.     So many of the LW season 3 maps are just sitting there collecting dust.

Imo, its a really good use of their time too.   it takes ALOT of time to make a LW episode, but it would only take a fraction of the time to update rewards/metas in old, unplayed maps to bring them as relevant content again.   People replay good metas for years, so the time/payoff is enormous.    

Some people are worried about "changing" the old maps, but honestly I don't think the maps itself or the story needs to be changed.   people replay for the meta events, and those are what I think needs to be addressed.

Of course, they could spend resources (time, money, etc) to balancing and/or patching old zones, but then the game would not show any forward progress.  Even more people would complain that the game is dead without new maps, rewards and such.

Anet doesn't seem to have the resources available to move the game forward with expansions and still re-visit older zones. 

[Gibson.4036]

Make Seasons of Dragons repeatable? 😄

 

[Rasimir.6239]

Isn't that what the living story dailies are? They're rotating, one map every 6 days, and the daily maps seem to have decent population whenever I go there.

 

With the size of this game, I doubt there's anything ANet can do to make all maps popular at the same time.

[Marika.5726]

I'd like to see an entire map using underwater content. It changes everything. But don't have much hope of that.

[Hashberry.4510]

I would love if they just retuned the old metas so they are not so face roll. As it is the newer players have not seen any difficulty. They overstack and ignore mechanics then give themselves a hefty pat on the pack for being so stronk. Its a bit pathetic.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Hashberry.4510

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

I would love if they just retuned the old metas so they are not so face roll. As it is the newer players have not seen any difficulty. They overstack and ignore mechanics then give themselves a hefty pat on the pack for being so stronk. Its a bit pathetic.

And yet, players are getting downed in metas all the time.

[Ruisen.9471]

On 2/16/2022 at 11:20 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

Of course, they could spend resources (time, money, etc) to balancing and/or patching old zones, but then the game would not show any forward progress.  Even more people would complain that the game is dead without new maps, rewards and such.

Anet doesn't seem to have the resources available to move the game forward with expansions and still re-visit older zones. 

At the very minimum, just balancing rewards shouldn't take too much dev time, since it doesn't require actual development.

[Linken.6345]

47 minutes ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

At the very minimum, just balancing rewards shouldn't take too much dev time, since it doesn't require actual development.

It is not needed either since return to added rewards to old maps already.

Do them when the maps you want are in the daily season 3 or season 4 rotation?

[Friday.7864]

It would be cool if they added a somewhat lengthy weekly or monthly to-do list.

Beat these bosses, do this dungeon, kill these bandits, do a rift or two etc

If it would reward a clover or two, or myb some mystic coins people would spend more time in core maps for sure.

[Strider Pj.2193]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:25 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

I’d love to see Wizards Fief used for something. Maybe we could get a meta that lets us enter the floating castle.

Or make it a guild hall….