A message from a veteran player to the devs: I don't feel like buying EoD

[AquaBR.9250]

Hi, first of all sorry for bad english, second i need to talk about something, this is for the devs not for the players: i don't really feel like buying EoD.
I've been following this game since beta, and playing since launch year, i was astonished with dinamic events and the open world and the dinamic combat, bought every exp and played every living world episode the day it came out, lion's arch attack was the best thing i've seen in an online game, and heart of thorns took everything to another level.

But now i feel like the games not for me anymore, playing gw2 feels like playing minecraft on creative, i barely die and when i die is when it doesn't matter, dying in open world is just an inconvenience, and danger in story is just an illusion, theres no penalty for dying, the bosses don't even reset, and you can't fail those even if you try.
"Well but theres raids and CMs" group content in here sucks due to stacking, wich is a problem since dungeons but you INSIST in 140 radius buffs and ignore those complains while listening to people saying "oh game is too hard i have to dodge", then you made all champs in Queensdale into veterans so the 2 level 8 friends i brought into the game had the delightful experience of killing one of those "bosses" without taking damage what a fun event! They droped the game right after btw. And the group content bosses mechanics feel more like a puzzle than a battle, every other major MMO have better group content, im here because i prefer open world and exploration, but if every monster is just a pinnata to me, theres no point.

I enjoyed the progression of masteries in HoT, but the masteries now require only 1/4 of the XP they required in HoT (from around 4kk xp to around 1kk, and 198 points on HoT to 130 in PoF) and as the ONLY progression system in the game it should be more lasting than that, might as well let us start with everything unlocked. I'll be paying 170 bucks for this thing (in don't live in a country as easy as you guys 29 dolars are 170 bucks here). I enjoy you bringing back the verticality of maps but you keep making the game for casuals, i feel like you make the game for people that doesn't play the game as much, instead of making a game for those who actually play the game more.

And after i max out every mastery like they are nothing i just play the game for fun, wich i don't have if i just explode everything.

 

I'm currently playing a stupid automatic mobile game, wich i feel a bigger urge to play then gw2 because it have 20 progression systems, its like 10 times gw2's, and i feel like progressing because theres actually hard guild content that requires the guild to progress together to beat then (guilds actually have a use there).

 

And every old content got easy because of the subtle powercreep gw2 have because you don't nerf strong stuff, you just buff weaker builds so you don't upset anyone and don't compensate in mobs HP scaling, so everybody's damage increase while the world bosses HP stays the same, this way we kill an elder dragon in literally 1 minute (or 1 bite kitten ppl say).

 

Im not saying the content from EoD is bad, i loved everything, the best elite specs ever, but i feel like this amazing content will just be like i said, playing minecraft on creative, not like i wanna play it on hardcore, i just wanna play it on survival.

Im not saying to make the game "hardcore", HoT difficulty was perfect but just stop holding player's hands, they will never learn to evade if you don't make it matter, make consequences for missplays so everyone can improve themselves and have a lasting gaming experience.

 

Most people here will disagree with me, because they are the casuals, the veteran players are actually getting better at the game not complaining about how hard it is on the forums, and of course they will disagree, you are makign the game for them, for people that can't pass through dark souls tutorial and blame it on the game not on themselves.

 

Just needed to vent, as i said, i really love this game i have almost 6k hours in it, but i don't feel like you are making the game for me anymore.

[Izzy.2951]

The game has always been easy, the story is basically just to see it and level up or get achivements. There have been never a posibility of failure which i think its really bad. Idk why they dont use the same model as GW1 when you need to do it in group with bonus stuff and its actually hard.

The instanced stuff is like a puzzle, yeah, has always been. Open World things is actually hard to manage, cos either you make things reallyyyy hard and that you need a lot of people, or they are too easy. Also arenant doesnt seems to find a very good way to put "roles" even if theres not trinity to do pve content stuff.

[Freya.9075]

For many players the game is easy for sure. But not all players wants a game that makes you have to fully focus and get really good at the game or die trying. It makes the game more chill. It’s not many mmos that does this so it’s good those players have a game for them as well. There really are enough tryhard games out there. 
 

they could however add more raids and hard mode stuff to the game separate from open world content but it doesn’t seem like anet find it worth doing anymore. Which they have the data to know and we do not. 

[Izzy.2951]

26 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

For many players the game is easy for sure. But not all players wants a game that makes you have to fully focus and get really good at the game or die trying. It makes the game more chill. It’s not many mmos that does this so it’s good those players have a game for them as well. There really are enough tryhard games out there. 
 

they could however add more raids and hard mode stuff to the game separate from open world content but it doesn’t seem like anet find it worth doing anymore. Which they have the data to know and we do not. 

Its not about if its easy or not, its that for example, personal story you can do it AFK and you cannot fail any mission, even if you die you get revived. So its not about being good, its that its tremendously trivial and not nice to re-play.

That perspective of making content is really bad, in the way that. in GW1 theres still people doing cooperative missions (story) cos its fun, challenging and for titles (and you were still not a super Pro when you passed a campaign). This story its not nice to re-play in a long term, so they basically need to make a lot of content to just do it one time trivially and move to the next game, which i dont think its good for the health of the game. And this will just lead Arenanet into developing GW3 (or other game) and abbandoning GW2, cos it really have a lot of deep problems being this one of it.

In a MMO that has no vertical progression and new levels etc, you basically make content that is re-playable, fun, challenging etc... if you dont have gear progression, the content is easy and not fun/appealing and on top of that they somehow powercreep the game so it becomes even more easy, its just dumb.

PD: Wasnt it easier to add to Eles/Thiefs etc 2,4k more health in pve instead of developing that powercreep jade bot?

Edited February 21, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Sugar Min.5834]

You Sir i think is what the gaming community called a content locust. Hence, no amount of contents or level of difficulty is ever enough for you. Btw, I will be getting my EoD🐢 xpac today. Yay.

[Izzy.2951]

24 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

You Sir i think is what the gaming community called a content locust. Hence, no amount of contents or level of difficulty is ever enough for you. Btw, I will be getting my EoD🐢 xpac today. Yay.

I dont know what is a content locust tbh. Actually GW1 has less content developed and its more replayeble, fun and challenging than gw2. I dont think its the amount of content, its the quality of the content and the mechanics behind it. And it seems like arenanet doesnt seem how to really make GW2 appealing (maybe the no mana bar, monks etc was a bad move at the end).. so atm they are just cashing out of nostalgia from gw1 players with these campaings (like most of the content), but the game health and popularity just keeps declining. 

Maybe they should hear the community and do some changes so the game is better (starting with their marketing), instead of developing the same things but with different aesthetics.

PD: I have also pre-purchased end of dragons cos cantha was my favourite region in GW1 and i loved the kurz vs lux etc. But in reality i dont see that the game is improving or bringing good things into the table.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Cronospere.8143]

Why are so many people thinking that making a separate post of why they dont want to buy EoD is interesting. There are so many threads already where you could have stated your mind.. geez.

 

Just wait one more week, maybe 2, 3 or maybe when its on sale. I dont care. Dont drag other people into your negativity. And maybe you will actually like what you see from other people playing EoD.

You have every right to not buy it. Just don't buy it..

 

Forum moderator please merge this with all the other posts.. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Cronospere.8143

[Randulf.7614]

36 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

I dont know what is a content locust tbh. Actually GW1 has less content developed and its more replayeble, fun and challenging than gw2. I dont think its the amount of content, its the quality of the content and the mechanics behind it. And it seems like arenanet doesnt seem how to really make GW2 appealing (maybe the no mana bar, monks etc was a bad move at the end).. so atm they are just cashing out of nostalgia from gw1 players with these campaings (like most of the content), but the game health and popularity just keeps declining. 

Maybe they should hear the community and do some changes so the game is better (starting with their marketing), instead of developing the same things but with different aesthetics.

PD: I have also pre-purchased end of dragons cos cantha was my favourite region in GW1 and i loved the kurz vs lux etc. But in reality i dont see that the game is improving or bringing good things into the table.

The problem with “listening to the community” is that the community rarely agrees with itself. Social media has often been glowing with praise on EoD, but the forums have a bit more mixed. I’m sure Reddit and discord also have their own mindsets. Then there is the metric data we don’t see but is a crucial tool for them and probably sways them in ways we don’t see. What one person thinks should or should not be added is not necs an accurate reflection of the community or the game’s needs.

Look at the cyberpunk setting thread. Or the praise and hatred for fishing/boats. The fuss over mounts pre-PoF when players said we didn’t need them and yet most people agree they did a fantastic job with them.

Im not saying they shouldn’t do more listening, but the game is replete with additions based on feedback. And when they do experiment (icebrood saga), people moan anyway (or they plain get it wrong like DRMs)

As for the game’s health, I think it’s doing incredibly well for an old game in an industry which has evolved away from mmos and has a lot of competition for its time. GW2 exists in a time where player attention spans are quite short, so the accessible, casual, highly replayable and comfortable style it promotes seems to be in its favour for that very reason.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I remember dying quite often during my first (and only per character) play-through of the Personal Story.  Tuning it for experienced 'veterans' might just chase away new players; those new players that are desired to add to the player population.  There's plenty of content for L80s.  I don't think all content needs to be catered to 'veterans'.

And, just sayin', if Guild Wars (One) is the cream of the crop, and "still (has) people doing cooperative missions (story) cos its fun, challenging and for titles", anyone is welcome to play it, even today. 

[Tukaram.8256]

Guild Wars has always been built for casual gamers. That is why I still play. There is plenty to do for all player levels and styles.

 I pre-ordered the expansion months ago. I like to support a game that I enjoy - and I am looking forward to boats & fishing. 😎

[AliamRationem.5172]

I don't really see the problem with the "can't fail" story bosses.  If you're good enough to handle it without dying, why does it matter that somebody else can complete it by dying 20 times?

You said HoT difficulty is fine.  So what's the problem with open world?  Your two friends played for 10 minutes, killed a veteran, and that's all there is to see?  Why didn't you take them over to one of the bandit champions and see how they do with that if they're looking to get their butts kicked in Queensdale?  You can solo the bandit champs, can't you?  Why not carry your friends through something more challenging than a veteran and show them what's up?

I feel you on the group content.  Stack-in-a-pile gameplay sucks, but it's never going to change unless this game goes full trinity.  Groups need to have a role capable of controlling boss movement and healers need to be able to use targeted heals.  Without those things we will always stack in a pile.

[Zephire.8049]

20 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Tuning it for experienced 'veterans' might just chase away new players; those new players that are desired to add to the player population.

Given one of the first hearts in EoD has basic tutorials like breakbars, that's probably the case. Only Anet has the analytics for the exact number, but if they put in that amount of development time into level 80 content, they are paying attention to player retention and see that as a priority. And how quickly people forgot about the upset the first PoF story mission caused because of the spike in difficulty.

Or how HoT had to be nerfed across the board because it was too difficult at release so players were quitting outright.

Player retention > making a handful of people happy at the expense of new/casual players' experience. It's not veteran players who solely keep the revenue steady or keep shareholders happy because a nearly 10 year old game is still bringing in X new players who stay for Y months and spend $Z in that time.

[Izzy.2951]

3 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

 Then there is the metric data we don’t see but is a crucial tool for them and probably sways them in ways we don’t see.

The metric data is cashing on GW1 locations and story. Thats what every expansion and living world has been about, when cantha is out and LWS6, all gw1 would be incorporated in gw2. So they basically need to make a expansion for a brand new stuff, that is not gonna make money, i can pretty much say 80% of the copies sell of EoD are ppl that have also gw1 and/or played it.

Anet needs a new project and money. If they dont polish new game experience and bring gw2 to another level, the future is really dark both for the game and company, that can get closed anytime by NCsoft.

They cannot sustain a 250 ppl company with a game that is not that popular, that is gonna have all its potential squeezed with Cantha and with just this game alone.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Yasai.3549]

I've personally fell out of love with GW2's story and world. It has very little to do with Guilds or Wars, mostly dragons for the LWs. 
I will however, keep in tabs with content creators and other players who are exploring EoD and see if the experience is worth it for me to make a purchase when EoD ever goes on sale. 

I still enjoy little aspects of GW2, like WvW for example, so I still see myself playing that, even without EoD Spec classes. 

[Chichimec.9364]

6 hours ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

Why are so many people thinking that making a separate post of why they dont want to buy EoD is interesting. There are so many threads already where you could have stated your mind.. geez...

Back when social media was first taking off and folks were just starting to see its potential for influencing the public's ideas and opinions, I came across a news story that I still remember in situations like this. The brief article was talking about how the U.S. Navy was taking bids on a new software design contract. What the Navy wanted was a program that would allow one person to quickly and easily control multiple social media accounts. They were talking upwards of a hundred social media accounts per person, iirc, and the stated purpose was to influence the public.

In the years since then, I have no doubt that governments and big business have both developed such software. So every time I read yet another in the seemingly endless series of "EoD is bad, GW 2 is bad, I'm leaving this game" posts on this forum, I do have to wonder who is actually writing them and if the author is being paid by a competitor to bad mouth this game.

One of the reasons I wonder that is because I have been playing video games since the days of Super Nintendo/Sega Genesis and I played my first online MMO in 2005. I can't even count how many games I've stopped playing in all those years. I can count the number of times I had to go online and badmouth a game before I left - Zero. When I've gotten tired of any given game, I've simply stopped playing it and moved on to another game, no big deal. Isn't that what gamers do? So I think @Cronospere.8143 's question here is right on the money. Why do we have so many of these same posts?

[b k.1648]

9 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

Most people here will disagree with me, because they are the casuals, the veteran players are actually getting better at the game not complaining about how hard it is on the forums

Citation needed.

As a rule, the _most_ dedicated players are the ones who use forums. "Casual" players tend not to, because they don't care that much (that's why they're casual).

[Freya.9075]

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

The metric data is cashing on GW1 locations and story. Thats what every expansion and living world has been about, when cantha is out and LWS6, all gw1 would be incorporated in gw2. So they basically need to make a expansion for a brand new stuff, that is not gonna make money, i can pretty much say 80% of the copies sell of EoD are ppl that have also gw1 and/or played it.

Anet needs a new project and money. If they dont polish new game experience and bring gw2 to another level, the future is really dark both for the game and company, that can get closed anytime by NCsoft.

They cannot sustain a 250 ppl company with a game that is not that popular, that is gonna have all its potential squeezed with Cantha and with just this game alone.

 

 

If this is the case where are your sources about this? And if what you say is true and they cater to gw1 players why did they choose the direction with eod as they did and not just “copy paste” the area like it seems some of the  gw1 players prefer? I see many ppl excited about eod that never played the first game. Me included. 

[Izzy.2951]

25 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

If this is the case where are your sources about this? And if what you say is true and they cater to gw1 players why did they choose the direction with eod as they did and not just “copy paste” the area like it seems some of the  gw1 players prefer? I see many ppl excited about eod that never played the first game. Me included. 

It is not the same cos 250 years has passed, and they have to modify stuff, but the reason behind all is the same: NOSTALGIA. Every player that i know buying EoD is a gw1/exgw1 player, every single map is from gw1, lots of npcs, bosses references to gw1 everywhere always. Balthazar, Yoko, Glint, dragons, literally all xD.

Why are they only selling and marketing reworked stuff of GW1? Mark this post in some years, and tell me what content they gonna add after they put cantha and LWS6 with some more canthan maps that they are missing? Why is all the people yeeah after 10 years, oh JQ was so fun, oh kurzicks, siege turtles. I mean. You will never ever see an expansion that is not GW1 related cos its not gonna make them money, and specially now with the game nearly 10 years old. GW1 along WoW were the dominant mmos out there, and they keep milking the machine, and memories from there.

PD: Even on the gemstore you have tons of skins of GW1, like chaos gloves and so on.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Hmm...where, exactly can I find Auric Basin in Guild Wars?  Tangled Depths? Verdant Brink? Any/all of Heart of Thorns? 

In Cantha, where is Jade Quarry?  The Kurzicks?  The Luxons? 

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Izzy.2951]

25 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Hmm...where, exactly can I find Auric Basin in Guild Wars?  Tangled Depths? Verdant Brink? Any/all of Heart of Thorns? 

In Cantha, where is Jade Quarry?  The Kurzicks?  The Luxons? 

Inquiring minds want to know!

Well sorry man, out of the 56 maps there are gonna be in the game, 50 are GW1 maps just 90%, soz. And HoT was sold basically as https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Maguuma_Jungle (like the Wilds in Maguma jungle) with the same aesthetics and trees you walked like if they were bridges (again, more parts of gw1 reworked). The other day i was doing metas and i even saw Murakai (a dungeon boss from gw1). I dont think they havent added any gw1 "npc/heroes/enemys" either alive or descendents: koss, devona, livia, ogden, mursaat/exalted etc...

Kurzicks and luxons will be out there, same as sunspear were in Elona. Jade Quarry is probably part of the Jade Sea map. 

Your ritualist avatar makes the perfect look as if you were blindfolded and dont want to see the reality. And yeah ofc there are some things new or based in more gw1, even random things like Rata Novus that every1 start talking about it like if all knew about it, and in reality it was just a random thing they came up with. Or the karka island, which i personally love it.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[The Boz.2038]

11 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

I'll be paying 170 bucks for this thing (in don't live in a country as easy as you guys 29 dolars are 170 bucks here).

Lol what the hell!?

[Chichimec.9364]

47 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

...the reason behind all is the same: NOSTALGIA. Every player that i know buying EoD is a gw1/exgw1 player...

Well, I have to admit that I have played GW1 but that was years ago and I never got past the first map in that game. Never made it to Cantha or anyplace else significant there. I pre-purchased EoD as soon as it was possible to do so. However, I don't have any nostalgia for GW1 at all. I didn't play it long enough to form any attachment to it. (And I certainly  didn't go onto any GW1 forum to proclaim that I wasn't buying the next expansion because the game was so bad.)

Also, several of my guildies are fairly new to Tyria. They never played GW1 and they pre-purchased EoD for reasons having nothing to do with nostalgia for a game they never played. We've been talking for days about playing EoD together as soon as it drops. Heck, two of those guildies who never played GW1 are taking time off from work next week so we can run around in EoD together. So, while you may know folks who are into EoD for nostalgic reasons, I know folks, including me, who are not. Personally, I'm excited about the Jade Bots, the siege turtles, the Mechanist specialization, and the fishing/boats combination. I have no idea if any of those date back to GW1 and it doesn't matter to me in the slightest if they do or not.

 

[Randulf.7614]

8 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

The metric data is cashing on GW1 locations and story. Thats what every expansion and living world has been about, when cantha is out and LWS6, all gw1 would be incorporated in gw2. So they basically need to make a expansion for a brand new stuff, that is not gonna make money, i can pretty much say 80% of the copies sell of EoD are ppl that have also gw1 and/or played it.

Anet needs a new project and money. If they dont polish new game experience and bring gw2 to another level, the future is really dark both for the game and company, that can get closed anytime by NCsoft.

They cannot sustain a 250 ppl company with a game that is not that popular, that is gonna have all its potential squeezed with Cantha and with just this game alone.

 

 

That is not metric data. Metric data is information we don’t see on how players play and interact with the game and the sort of content they like. That helps drive a lot of the content and features we see. People can ask for harder content, but if their metrics show actually few play it when it gets added, then resources aren’t going to spent on making more.

I will point out that GW2 has outsold GW1 quite considerably so I think we can safely assume 80% of the population having played GW1 is likely not true. This game has been and almost certainly still is more popular than it’s predecessor, testified by a strong, healthy population after 10 years. GW2 is doing very well and there’s no dark horizon approaching. I’m really not sure why this keeps coming up year after. People have been predicting the end of the game for a very long time and it’s never been remotely close to being true.

By adding Cantha they appeal to that small, loyal fan base from GW1. But completely,y changing it to something new, they appeal to the wider population and new players. It is a clever way of making the best of both worlds

Edited February 22, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[LucianDK.8615]

There will always be Doomsayers claiming the sky is falling down....eventually.

Just look at how many times that WoW has been declared to be doomed.

[Xenesis.6389]

So you play the easiest content and complain it's not hard, but then refuse to play the actual hard content....?

Why not challenge yourself instead of waiting for the game to up the difficulty for everyone else?

Have you bothered to not run none optimal or none tanky gear?

Maybe find your own group to do hard content so whatever funky class/spec you're using is accepted?

Gw2 started out as a casual game, fractals and raids weren't even in the game just dungeons. It's not surprising it's open world is more casual based, while they've increased the difficulty in the instances for those that want that higher challenge. But if you don't even want to do that content, then that's kinda your problem, not the game, or other players.