Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Caitybee.3614]

7 minutes ago, Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

Can we get an update on whether the turtle is staying in this mess or what is being done? I mean who launches an ex-pack and than stop communicating?

I was actually hoping there would be some kind of patch or at least an update today to address the meta given their patch days are usually on a Tuesday - or at least major ones are. Still nothing though which is disheartening. I have attempted the meta 7 times and I can't bring myself to try any more because a part of me knows it's going to be a fail again anyways - so why waste the precious time when I can be doing something else? It's coming down to that for me, and it's not a great feeling. 😕

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

What does being "casual" mean in the first place? Being a casual - at least in every other MMORPG besides GW2 - means, that you more or less only play at most one to two hours per day.

No. I see that "definition" raised often, but it is false, because it misses the core of the divide. I have seen hardcore players that play only few hours a week. I have also seen casual players that play many hours each day, every day. It's not the time spent on a game that differentiates those groups, but the way in which that time is being spent. What matters is how you play, and what is your preferred gameplay style. For the most part it is a difference between treating game as a Serious Business(TM) and more laid-back ("casual") time-killer.

Of course, it's not a clear-cut divide (there's no point beyond which you suddenly stop being casual, and turn into a hardcore, nor everyone needs to be equally casual/hardcore about everything in the game - so, you can be intense only about a very small part of it, with more casual approach to everything else), but that's the main dividing line. Not the time.

[Oikodomos.7102]

The way i understand the meta to be complete is to prioritize some actions.
Every 20% the boss is phasing and some minions are spawning on the main platform, among em there are Thornheart mobs. Those thornheart mobs have to be dealt as fast as possible or it is perma stun for everyone.
Also, every 20% we run out of EMP from legion waystation, we have to refill em and not be surprised by massive CC on boss.
The CC skills should also be on skill bar since the champion from 60% and 20% split won't be affected by waystation.
Finally, the tail should not be ignored and be killed as fast as possible. (even if we can greed for 2% before a phase).

 

To summarize the priorities
1. Deal Thorheart and refill EMP from waystation every 20%

2. CC the boss as hard as you can

3. The tail

4. DPS hard with a decent rotation

I would add some reflexion about leading :

1. try to have quickness support in every five ppl subgroup

2. try to have might boons (call for dudu/hfb/miralac/...)

3. alac is not so important here since the rythm of boss's attacks does not allow to make full rotations.
4. put markers where you want the squad to go during the fight at the very beginning (i set 2 marks on boss position+ 1 mark by champion's island)

5. on champions split (60%/20%) ask for synchronization on killing by stopping DPS at 20% (in fact you'll see players stopping at 10-15% their deeps, but that's ok)
6. last but no least, don't let toxic ppl raging flaming and insullting on squad or map. Help and provide information on mechanics is great, insult will make players less invested in fight and overall lead to a failure.

On the topic of the turtle, should the turtle be the reward of this event, or could we have an alternate way as wvw reward track to start the collection ? We can keep the meta events to unlocks masteries above lvl 1.
I like the event as it is today (about 20 failures, 3 success as comm, 1 sucess as mere player) but i wish to everyon to be entertained by the game and it is not the case so far.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Oikodomos.7102

[Drakth.1875]

The turtle mount shouldn't be locked behind this meta.

Not everyone has the time to do this meta multiple times, it takes 2+ hours, even more if you intend to coordinate the thing.

Some casuals only have a few hours to play, sometimes even less than 2 hours, so yeah, people are going to be pissed when they cant use one of the main perks of the expac. 

To keep most (because you can not keep everyone) happy there should be another way to unlock the turtle.

If the turtle wouldn't be behind this annoying meta i wouldn't mind the difficulty.

FREE THE TURTLE!

[aimasira.3786]

i was losing the event between 1% and 19%.
Since 6 of March i am losing from 40%.

I can not say i am seeing evolving strategies, what i am seeing are private group or LI groups that are clearing it.
because of that the random low skill players are becoming a majority to random groups.

I refuse to enter an LI group for an open world event

[Atria.6729]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

The final boss should now more responsively transition from "stunned" or "vulnerable" states when pushed to any health threshold, greatly reducing the amount of time players spend waiting for a phase transition to begin.

Ok, just did my 11th run, so far 2 were succesfull (and 1 was extremally good RNG). This here statement is a lie. My last run twice we just stood and watch the boss throw 3+ different attacks after hitting health % that should push it into the next phase. Nope. Wait and watch time getting wasted. We lost at 12%, didn't even bother with the last CC bar due to only seconds left so I am sure if the phase transition was actually smooth (not happening good 20-30 seconds or more after HP % is triggered) we would win. It was a good squad, 5-man subgroups, condi dps, buffs, food, map preparation, jade tech boons, all.

[Shogen.5071]

5 hours ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

I'm going to need this song in my playlist xD

its kamelot's under the grey sky, probably their best songs they have made since roy khan left the band

[Atria.6729]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

The final boss should now more responsively transition from "stunned" or "vulnerable" states when pushed to any health threshold, greatly reducing the amount of time players spend waiting for a phase transition to begin.

Actually, this may not be 100% a lie. After all, boss smoothly transitions from "stunned" and "vulnerable" into jumping all around and being impossible to target just after it has been CC-ed so CC doesn't help much.

[Will.9785]

Take the turtle out of the meta and award it for completing the story.  This solves the turtle issue.

Next, give players a total of 1 hour to complete the escort and Soowon fight.  Set the rewards based on the total amount of time spent.

If the total time is less than 45 minutes (for example) - you get GOLD and 30 chests.
If the total time is between 45 and 50 minutes get SILVER and 20 chests.
If the total time is more than 50 minutes you get BRONZE and 10 chests.

Finally, add a daily reward chest to ALL EOD METAS that gives a choice of antique summoning stones, memories of Aurene, lamplighter badges, or map materials (jade, resin, etc.) upon successful completion.  You should get this regardless of what rank you achieved (bronze, silver, or gold).

You're welcome ANet, I just fixed your expansion.  And I apologize for being snarky, but you have no idea how disappointed I am in you guys.  I want you to succeed but it's like every time it seems like you've turned a corner, you drop the ball in some way.  You've been at this for more than 10 years (factoring in the original dev time and GW1).  You shouldn't be making mistakes like this at this point.  You already have the blueprint with HOT metas.  The EOD metas should have been a layup.  Heck, the EOD metas should have been like climbing a ladder and putting the ball through the hoop.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Will.9785

[Shogen.5071]

16 minutes ago, Atria.6729 said:

Ok, just did my 11th run, so far 2 were succesfull (and 1 was extremally good RNG). This here statement is a lie. My last run twice we just stood and watch the boss throw 3+ different attacks after hitting health % that should push it into the next phase. Nope. Wait and watch time getting wasted. We lost at 12%, didn't even bother with the last CC bar due to only seconds left so I am sure if the phase transition was actually smooth (not happening good 20-30 seconds or more after HP % is triggered) we would win. It was a good squad, 5-man subgroups, condi dps, buffs, food, map preparation, jade tech boons, all.

i did a few like that hell i had every boon and food under the sun including old black lion trading company strength boosters, my dps was burst well above the 140k mark got the fker down to 1 % but due to some bs last minute immunity frames we lost.... im not regretting going and playing another game after that 22nd losses if i had to hear that stupid fking dragon go all emo mode one more im i think i would have thrown the computer out the window, nothing is more infuriating then sitting there doing the same meta over and over again with the same bs and same dialogue triggering .... there is a reason game mechanics are made easier these days, because back in the ps2 days if you had an absolutely fk'd encounter and people heard about it, people wouldnt by into that game

hell most other mmo's with difficult conditions at least affords the player a little control with tanks pulling agro, healers have mass aoe heals and dps only having to worry about dps and avoiding telegraphs, but gw2 doesnt have that so the only way you can design something hard is by janky mechanics, by comparison even the most organised content in gw2 which is strikes and raids is perfections compared to this meta,

mechanically in theory this meta is beautiful, the boss its self is beautiful, finally an elder dragon fight that is done right, but in practice throwing 49 other people with little understanding of their classes into a meta which is harder then any raid in any mmo ive played is stupid, like do you know how many people in t4 have told me their class doesnt have any cc.... (every class has hard and soft cc if you dont know them your either not using combo's or reading the tool tips)

[Gorem.8104]

7 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

ArenaNet can you please at least break the silence before your community is destroyed?

If Mukluk feels depressed after playing the content, the person I consider the most capable of wording and understanding both sides of the community, that means... you messed up.

This silence is not doing the game and the community any good... we need answers.

And btw: Getting siege turtle in a different way is not the prime solution. You locked SO MUCH behind a succesful Dragon's End, it's not even funny anymore.

I was doing achievements while waiting for your responce, but... I am getting more and more frustrated with achievements that unlock step by step and end at "talk to so and so after conclusion of Dragon's End" 

Cantha right now, is the worse place one can be as a casual or mid-field player. You see walls rising in front of you around every corner due to 1 Raid like Meta.

TBH I can't wait for someone to Tell Muk that "Btw, Story elements are locked behind this meta and you need to beat it multiple times to experience the complete story" So even if they moved the Turtle, the story itself is still locked behind this raid boss. The Turtle is the only reason this event is being completed or done at all, but meanwhile people are just utterly not caring about the locked story elements. 

Its just such bad design. Also on the Casual comments, I know there is still people working through Seitung. There is a lot of people still yet to experience DE. Hopefully the Alpha testers can get it fixed by the time they get there so they can beta test. Hopefully there is a fix today that removes the RNG and adds 5 mins (or just allow you to damage the boss while the wisp phase is active), (and while the wisp phase is active, you can't get tail).

[Minjin.8259]

6 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

The "Casuals"-argument is getting really annoying.

There are already several people in this thread who are trying to find a reasonable middle ground - which is first and foremost making the fight more consistent by lessening the impact RNG has and maybe adjust some intricacies - yet people are still complaining that this fight will be too difficult no matter what.

What does being "casual" mean in the first place? Being a casual - at least in every other MMORPG besides GW2 - means, that you more or less only play at most one to two hours per day. You won't be able to achieve BiS equipment, but you should at least get something decent which will serve at the very least as entry-level equipment to any kind of content. You will most likely not be the best player, you also won't be a catastrophe though, since - while not understanding the intricacies - you understand the basics, meaning in normal, everyday kinda content, you'll be able to at least pull your weight. More often than not, you will have one main character and at most one or two alts. You will use said main character for higher tier content and use your alts for crafting, storage or simply for fun.

Skimming through the forums during the last few days, being a "casual" seems to mean something entirely different to certain parts of the community in GW2 though! Apparently, a "casual" in GW2 is fundamentally useless since a "casual" neither understands fundamental game nor fundamental class mechanics. S/he is unable to socialize on a very basic level in order to do basic instanced content (- something which is bread and butter in any other MMORPG).

Seriously, nobody should expect to solve every problem the game offers just by using some scuffed Level 80 Booster build. Neither should Arena Net expect that people aren't even able to read their kitten traits and traitlines. Soo Won is an awesome encounter. Yes, there need to be fundamental changes in how RNG affects that encounter and there probably need to be soft and hard caps on several mechanics, but no, it certainly shouldn't be nerfed into oblivion. Learn basic game and your own class' mechanics. This is a game, not an interactive movie, for kitten's sake...

What casual means is that you are a human being with a life and interests beyond the game and don't consider the way you want to play it needing to pouring over endless guides, crunching numbers to get the best stats and do god mod damage in the hardest content on a game.  Casual means you don't treat the game like it's your job.  Casual means you don't consider beating the hardest content and being in the top 3% of players in the game as your greatest achievement in life.  Casual means you come here for escape and entertainment, not the desire to fling your character off the highest building in New Kaineng and leave it's body there to rot while you go do something more rewarding and enjoyable like clean the rain gutters or clip your toenails.  This game has always billed itself a casual game and a very large portion of the population is here for that very reason.  It's fine if you want to be hardcore or even elitist, but recognize many people just simply don't want to or can't pour that much of their life into it.  And those are the people who are keeping the game alive for those few of you who do want to do those things.  So be respectful of them the way they are trying to respect you for the way you want to do things.

[Gorem.8104]

9 minutes ago, Will.9785 said:

Take the turtle out of the meta and award it for completing the story.  This solves the turtle issue.

Next, give players a total of 1 hour to complete the escort and Soowon fight.  Set the rewards based on the total amount of time spent.

If the total time is < 40 minutes (for example) - you get GOLD and 30 chests.
If the total time is > 45 minutes but < 50 minutes you get SILVER and 20 chests.
If the total time is > 50 minutes you get BRONZE and 10 chests.

Finally, add a daily reward chest to ALL EOD METAS that gives a choice of antique summoning stones, memories of Aurene, map materials (jade, resin, etc.), and something else.  You should get this regardless of what rank you achieved (bronze, silver, or gold).

You're welcome ANet, I just fixed your expansion.

What actually is up with the rewards from events? Just killed the Leviathan and not even a chest or Champ bag. Like, the events here are literally pointless to do a second time. Did they just forget to actually give us rewards for doing the content? If they did it like you suggest, EoD would be such a better expansion. DE should be crazy rewarding, like it needs to give out like 60 gold at the end of it. And that is STILL less then you get farming other meta's. 

[Peterson.5172]

just noticed something on wiki's main page, you cant get any more front and center

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Main_Page

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Yeah I see it, Turtle in foreground of EoD image.

Turtle currently is becoming a MeMe mount. 

Also dissapointed "Over the Weekend"... it is Tuesday, the community is becoming more and more toxic by the hour, it litterly is falling apart and the silence of ArenaNet is deafening.

 

[Nubilus.9156]

10 hours ago, sgs.4523 said:

So after 3 days of constant trying at this meta I commanded a full squad and we cleared it with 1 minute left on timer. Only in-game chat, no voice coordination whatsoever.

 

What really helped was viral spread of  people mentality in map chat even during pre-meta who just went into beast mode and said to themselves "this is it, let's do this sheet done finally"

 

I'm going to bold key tactics I used that brought success

 

I was brainstorming with guildies and we were wondering why are Bloodstone glider skills available here and we realized it's the key to success as it deals IMMENSE dps on split phase minibosses - we hit 70K DPS with glider attacks!!! 

 

I set lfg - alac, barriers, mad dps and people joined stating their roles, I did 10 subs for boon efficiency and we prepped the map, while constantly calling events on map so everyone gets 10 stacks of buff plus reminding constantly to charge offensive and defensive protocols as they stack up to 90 minutes each. 

 

Before encounter I had everyone who unlocked jade bot wp set their wp on the platform in case of death they have one quick respawn immediately there. Also before fight I had everyone mount up so no one dies from first attack.

 

Learning from that, I commanded my squad to have 5 people DEDICATED to gliding attacks per miniboss group as the attacks bring mad dps, cc and small aoe heals for people on the miniboss platform. it took around 30 secs for minibosses to clear and we got back to main arena.

 

Same tactic is applied to tail phase - I had few people dedicated to jumping off platform, using jade bot height bump and catching the updraft to get above platform and nuke the fk out of that tail with glider. Tail melted within 10 secs.

 

Main problem I saw in previous runs was people not realizing the tail hitbox stays at same place regardless of moving animation so they chased and stopped hitting it. Never chase a tail, stay on the spot and keep mashing those skills!

 

During green circles I had Necros spam Epidemic and everyone who could spam stability. When she does her final attack you will see pretty visible arrow markers where she will blow from, simply hide behind crystals facing the arrows direction and no one dies. Same like pillars at Adina W7.

 

Above all, it's mandatory to keep hyping people as a commander and constantly doing calls, reminders to refresh EMP's at waystations while also letting your squad know they CAN shout too to flood the local chat, map chat, squad chat so everyone notices there is something to be done like TAIL, CC, OUT (of orange). Phrases like LETS SLAP THAT SNEK HARD, GIVE ME ALL YOU GOT, GIVE ME ALL THAT DEEPS GUYS, GOGOGOGOGO really kept people focused, engaged, hyped and at the last 5% we had like 1:30 left on timer, CC phase came and breakbar melted, and whole chat went WE GOT THIS, GOGOGOGOGO, TUTEL HERE WE COME and bam, in 30 secs we cc'd, melted 5% and everyone got their tutel. 

 

Commander Trap

Have you perhaps just found the one hidden thing no-one tried?

 

Has any group ACTUALLY tried the glider skills from LW S3 consistently? Like tested if thats a mechanic that ACTUALLY MATTERS to the DPS for ie. tail?

 

I have wondered too why Glider skills are available in DE.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Nubilus.9156

[Zephire.8049]

I was really hoping that today of all days, there would be a statement (and maybe hotfix) released ASAP but the disappointment at the continued silence from Anet is now worse than the disappointment at DE. "Over the weekend" implies that on Monday—Tuesday at the latest—there would, at minimum, be a statement about whether they're happy with the metrics or are working on changes. Given what's happening with the community, emergency PR mode should have been activated days ago as silence does nothing to help in this situation and is driving paying customers away.

I thought Anet's communication was finally improving and they had learned how damaging silence from a developer is but evidently not.

[Lonewolf.8602]

24 minutes ago, Minjin.8259 said:

What casual means is that you are a human being with a life and interests beyond the game and don't consider the way you want to play it needing to pouring over endless guides, crunching numbers to get the best stats and do god mod damage in the hardest content on a game.  Casual means you don't treat the game like it's your job.  Casual means you don't consider beating the hardest content and being in the top 3% of players in the game as your greatest achievement in life.  Casual means you come here for escape and entertainment, not the desire to fling your character off the highest building in New Kaineng and leave it's body there to rot while you go do something more rewarding and enjoyable like clean the rain gutters or clip your toenails.  This game has always billed itself a casual game and a very large portion of the population is here for that very reason.  It's fine if you want to be hardcore or even elitist, but recognize many people just simply don't want to or can't pour that much of their life into it.  And those are the people who are keeping the game alive for those few of you who do want to do those things.  So be respectful of them the way they are trying to respect you for the way you want to do things.

This.

And can I add one more? For some, casual means caring more about Fashion Wars and getting all mounts with skins that complement the Toon's outfit coz why not? They won't give a kitten about Soo-Won's Void. 🤣

[Minjin.8259]

4 minutes ago, Lonewolf.8602 said:

This.

And can I add one more? For some, casual means caring more about Fashion Wars and getting all mounts with skins that complement the Toon's outfit coz why not? They won't give a kitten about Soo-Won's Void. 🤣

I was thinking that as I made my post.  Hardcore players want to show off their gear, casuals want to show off their fashion!  So that means they are spending the dollars.

[Kerin.9125]

10 hours ago, sgs.4523 said:

So after 3 days of constant trying at this meta I commanded a full squad and we cleared it with 1 minute left on timer. Only in-game chat, no voice coordination whatsoever.

It's great there are highly skillful players like you to tag up and do this massive amount of organization that Mukluk equates to more work effort than mid-level CMs .. but this is OPEN WORLD content gating the box-cover mount not a CM Raid, that's why this event design is utterly crass.

[dly.2485]

I commanded a group earlier and we cleared it, I had the group split into 10 subgroups. I gave the same instructions I have been for the past few days. One thing I noticed though. We had a huge chunk of time we were able to DPS where she was not flying about and when she did her wave move, it fired behind us so we were able to continue with the DPS. I asked for some people group 7 to glide for her tail and that seemed to take it down really quickly while 15 others groups 8, 9, 10 attacked her tail normally, the other groups stayed on her front foot ready to take down CC. it worked well but it was also due to luck. the majority of my experiences have not been as fortunate with the RNG. It's a huge issue which needs to be fixed.

The mechanics are fairly trivial to people who read the chat, the dps is easy but the RNG is what is stopping this from being completed by the masses. It's only after completing it I realize how much this really is based on luck and not skill.

One thing I know for sure, I'm not going back to do it again unless there is some reason I NEED to.  It will soon be the case with any patient commander who manages to complete it unfortunately.

Edited March 8, 2022 by carrolltech.9215

[Lonewolf.8602]

11 minutes ago, Minjin.8259 said:

I was thinking that as I made my post.  Hardcore players want to show off their gear, casuals want to show off their fashion!  So that means they are spending the dollars.

More like hardcore players want challenge. They live for the thrill of beating big baddies and overcoming difficult content and mechanics. It's the casuals that want to show off gear and fashion. They buy tons of stuff from the gem store for that reason (hello self). 🤣

[Kromie.8930]

On 3/6/2022 at 12:48 PM, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Sounds like you haven't actually done the meta if you think the issue is "it just needs time". 

This meta doesn't need more time, it needs a consistent pattern that people actually need to learn. RNG attacks on an AI =/= difficulty. When you actually have a consistent AI pattern, this Meta can be done more consistently even with the time allotted. At that point if people fail, then it's on them. 

Yes I have. It's frustrating but so what. Yes theres some rng that should be tuned but its still very new content. I play mmo's to complete challenges online with other players that is usually the objective. Looking fly in game is usually the result of obtaining items from events that are not easily completed. Where ANet messed up is making the successful completion of the Meta a requirement  to get the Siege Turtle. Casual players want the Turtle mount but dont want to spend time getting it by successfully completing the meta. The alternative is going to be a grindy time gated process like the Skyscale. I don't care about getting the Turtle right now tbh. It's just there. I can use Skyscale to get around easier. I'd rather have an easily accessible challenge in the open-world. That's just me. 

[nutri.1385]

I'm reading this thread and I understand the frustration, I really do. Yesterday and today I tried to clear the meta twice, today we would have done it if we had 2 more minutes. And I don't want to spend my evenings first trying to even get on the same map as my commi, and then spending almost 2 hours for nothing every day. I wish some achievements weren't locked behind the meta. 

But at the same time, I truly believe the devs are trying to fix it, maybe they're still figuring it out. I know stuff seems obvious from the players perspective, but it's rarely so (speaking from experience), and there are as many opinions about how the meta should look like as there are players. 

I just wanted to say that overall the event is epic and feels great to finish: for me it's a great final meta for the dragon cycle, and I'm sure it wasn't intended to be a killjoy. I love it that I got to finish it and then see the final of the story.

Saying in public that the turtle as obtainable as easily as the beetle wasn't very great, but maybe there was some miscommunication or change of plans on the way. After all during the streams they repeatedly said that the content is still WIP. 

Let's wait and see what the devs come up with, I don't want them to read the forums and be depressed about the design of one unfortunate event after many years of development. And I'm loving this expansion so far. We're in the second week after a really smooth release, no queues, only occasional crashes. Hiccups with complicated products lik games happen and I'm sure it's going to get better soon. 

[Geckoo.6018]

20 minutes ago, Lonewolf.8602 said:

More like hardcore players want challenge. They live for the thrill of beating big baddies and overcoming difficult content and mechanics. It's the casuals that want to show off gear and fashion. They buy tons of stuff from the gem store for that reason (hello self). 🤣

 Just a quick reminder that a hardcore player can also care about looking fabulous while beating the big baddie.

That's why usually trying to clasify everyone into such simple categories is not a great idea. In the end you have a wide variety of players with a wide variety of interests and usually those categories and interests are not mutually exclusive.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Geckoo.6018