Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Squigglez.1236]

I'm just going to echo what others have put here so nothing really new, just adding my voice so there's more demand for change here.

I did actually beat the meta on my 6th try, I do like the design of the boss fight but there are so many flaws that this it's doomed in its current state. First and foremost the "Challenge" is in the wrong place, there's nothing wrong with asking people to dodge attacks or break a cc bar, the challenge for this meta is the massive effort in stacking a squad with subgroups that have might, fury, quickness, alac and sometimes stability. This meta shouldn't require setting up the equivalent of 5 raid squads, it's just not made for it. The group I finally succeeded in had to create a 50 man squad with 20 support classes, we had to get into a map super early so that the entire squad could make it in before the event started, then had to make sure to grind until everyone got 10 stacks of participation for the damage increase. This is WAY too much prep and is orders of magnitude more tedious and difficult than the actual fight is.

The actual fight I think is fun but there's still some broken bits. Others have mentioned the attack RNG which can be brutal. She decided to switch sides too often and your timer gets eaten, same thing if she keeps putting her tail up. Additionally, you made a point to say the green mechanic shouldn't be skipped, but you know what else is being skipped? The whirlpools. The break bar on those things is insanely high, every group I've been in has just let the people in the whirlpools die, it's just not worth the time it takes to try and free them.

Other stuff that needs fixed. The turtle absolutely shouldn't be locked behind this, and in my opinion you shouldn't need to do a strike mission to finish the turtle either. Some people just don't like doing instanced group content that requires they submit to a meta build. The entire meta taking 2 hours is also just awful, dragon stand starts every 2 hours but at least in that you can finish it early by doing things well. The group I passed with had most people afk for 20-30 minutes waiting for it to start because they'd already gotten their 10 buff stacks. Lastly, the rewards are crap and they're all gated behind succeeding. Your 2 hours ends up giving you less for your time than an octovine or dragon stand, and if you fail you get nothing just a complete waste of your time.

 

Suggestions:

Lower the break bar of whirlpools, give attacks that hamper dps (tail and dive) a cooldown so they can't be spammed.

Add an npc or something that lets you vote to start the meta early, if enough people vote the meta starts so you don't have to wait half an hour.

Link the turtle egg to something else, at the very least give the egg out for the event before the boss fight so people are much more likely to get it. Also put some rewards at the steps before the boss so failures don't just give you the finger for your time.

Put more valuable rewards on success or some reason people should keep doing this after they've personally gotten their turtle, the legendary items are already dropping in price and will not sustain this.

Change the fight so it doesn't require groups with perfect boons and damage classes, also I'd prefer you just remove the participation buff and lower the dps check. It's just an extra chore, make the day metas give some rewards of their own to incentivize doing them.

 

Other somewhat related notes:

Some changes are seriously needed and quick. I know some people play this for the challenge but you can't gear open world events to that, once they've done it enough to get bored they'll stop doing it and then you're left with a challenging meta nobody wants to play. Additionally, not only is the requirement of constantly doing this meta burning people out as some have as many as 20-30 failed tries, but the people who do finally finish it don't want to come back to help others, and as people are constantly trying this the other maps feel oddly empty, this one meta is taking up so much of peoples play time it's literally draining some of the life from other maps.

Make the Thruster Control Unit tradable, or have it drop from the basically identical fight in story mode. I know quite a few people who dread the idea of doing a strike to finish this collection.

Edited March 9, 2022 by XDeathShadowX.2619

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

22 minutes ago, XDeathShadowX.2619 said:

 don't want to come back to help others

it's literally draining some of the life from other maps.

As with all releases this happen, new content players flock to it. then once they have finished they go back to what they enjoy doing the most and spending time on. So I don't worry about the other maps they will fill back up again and probably sooner than you'd think.

 

The bigger problem and what is already happening to some extent is the lack of repeatability. DE / B4JS is NOT going to survive the test of time as other meta's have.  Sure you have the "show offs" who have returned to show off their win and completed turtle. You do also have those whom have it and actually use it to help and play the meta, though those numbers are fewer than the ones sitting around slamming down at the main wp doing nothing else, imo. That is concerning.

Players talk of dead content well, this is that. Since our tries over the weekend we have chosen to just go there for map comp and some events as we play each of our mains through the story and maps. It sucks because it is a good battle and it is a good "End" to a long story. The battle was fun. It also isn't worth the hassle for a win.

Personal I feel cheated. It's not what they said for the mount unlock. Here's to wizz'n in the wind I guess?

[Ruisen.9471]

Can anyone confirm if the new bug fix has fixed the RNG issue?   It seems like that was the bug addressed in the patch notes.   I've done it once post patch and didn't have the RNG issue, but its hard to say with just 1 run.

[Minjin.8259]

I just logged on and looked at LFG out of curiosity.  Not one single group listed in LFG and it's afternoon, last night I found 1.  People who have the turtle have it and are done, people like me who have tried so many times and don't have given up.  This meta is already dying barely a week in.

[Suranis.8279]

27 minutes ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

Can anyone confirm if the new bug fix has fixed the RNG issue?   It seems like that was the bug addressed in the patch notes.   I've done it once post patch and didn't have the RNG issue, but its hard to say with just 1 run.

Nope. She night not be swooping and biting as much, which is what the Patch notes said, but that just means more tail swapping etc.

And ya, LFG is increasingly filled with Fishing Parties at Meta time.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Suranis.8279

[zidane.5194]

After 15 tries, my 16th attempt finally aligned the RNGesus and allowed me to beat this meta.  I will never do it again.  I don't even care about the other achievements that you have to beat this meta to get.  They are not worth it.

[Ordin.9047]

For goodness sake, please make this beatable before it gets abandoned by the player base. At least let us have more time on the burn phase. Its really frustrating to almost have her down, then we have to deal with tails and bubbles and her being hungry again. Also, the giant cluster of mobs standing on the platform just makes it soo confusing.

[Zantal.4798]

Why do we get tail phases with breakbar at the same time?

[VulcanPyroman.8571]

I am getting really fed up with it. I didnt do as many attempts as some other people, but I have time for at most one a day and even that is a stretch. I can do everything right,: find a map with a commander, do all the quest, run a meta build, get all the buffs do all the mechanics, etc etc, and still fail every time. You need too many people being on the ball to get it to pass and most people just want to see shiny explosions. This just doesnt work. It is a full map event, which takes way too long, with needing way too many people being at least decent... and locking major content behind it. This single event just really is pulling the whole expansion down.

[Zephire.8049]

47 minutes ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

Can anyone confirm if the new bug fix has fixed the RNG issue?   It seems like that was the bug addressed in the patch notes.   I've done it once post patch and didn't have the RNG issue, but its hard to say with just 1 run.

It didn't. The only thing I noticed was instead of her chaining swoops together, it would be swoop > attack > swoop > attack > swoop > attack etc. with tails and CC bars thrown in because the swoop is still in the RNG pool.

Granted I only did one run before shutting the game down, but everyone in the group was confused because it wasn't any different than a "decent" run pre-patch and she still did 8 swoops in one phase alone.

[Minjin.8259]

Ok so I just map hopped because the meta was over on a map with no one doing it, I dropped into a map where they were actually fighting Soo-Won.  People were being so toxic, yelling not enough dps....well of course there isn't enough dps if your map isn't full enough to keep a rando from dropping in at the end.  Of course it failed, so I guess that puts me at what 16 1/2 fails?  But being toxic in a situation like that isn't going to make people want to keep trying either.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Minjin.8259

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

What about the new players you were trying to attract, they have no shot at this meta and it works to push people away certainly not what anyone who has just joined was expecting. This whole thing is ridiculous and the fact is you are destroying your own long term success with your stubbornness  is mind boggling .Pull your heads out of the sand and get this fixed..

Edited March 9, 2022 by Vlad Morbius.1759

[Kronos.2560]

I was wondering why the fight didn't seem to follow any pattern. Now it makes sense. I have been in quite a few groups that got down to that last sliver and then suddenly the boss just starts swooping back and forth for the last 2 minutes in an invul frame.

 

My suggestions would be:

 

1. Consistent fight. No rng for swooping/tail breaks/breakbars etc. As I have seen a LOT of times where you break the bar and now you can start the DPS... oh wait she starts swooping so even if you have a 30 second dps buff its pointless as the boss is invul swooping or you are running away from the 1 hit down attack back to back. I just want to see every 10% or so a mechanic to show up like clockwork so new players can learn it. As there will always be casual people in the maps. 

 

2. When you go off to fight the bosses or the boss is invul and talking. Please just freeze the timer. I feel like 50% of this fight you are just watching dialogue of the boss talking where you can't every actually do any damage. Even if you  make the timer shorter but freeze it during dialogue it would feel better in the end. It is quite irritating to fail the fight because the boss likes to chat a lot while invul with the timer going down. 

 

3. After what feels like a LOT of attempts (not keeping track of #)  with a lot of very organized groups. I still don't really see a point for most the breakbars as with the rng I swear after its broken the boss just immediately slams the stage then starts swooping where your DPS gain from breaking it is close to 0 due to evade frames. I want the break the bar on boss or tail to stun the boss for 10 seconds even? maybe 15/20 if that isn't pushing it.  

 

 

[Lampshade.7569]

I decided to check if the changes to RNG really made things better, and failed right at the gates:

 

https://i.imgur.com/linIRxX.png

[Bunny.9834]

26 minutes ago, Lampshade.7569 said:

I decided to check if the changes to RNG really made things better, and failed right at the gates:

 

https://i.imgur.com/linIRxX.png

Sometime you can kinda sense how the rest of the squad will do around this part of the event. 

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

3 hours ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

Can anyone confirm if the new bug fix has fixed the RNG issue?   It seems like that was the bug addressed in the patch notes.   I've done it once post patch and didn't have the RNG issue, but its hard to say with just 1 run.

Meh, just finished another fail had at least 5 swips and tails. reached 25% Best I've reached was 13% before fail. But FTN I'm done with it.

 

 

38 minutes ago, Lampshade.7569 said:

I decided to check if the changes to RNG really made things better, and failed right at the gates:

 

https://i.imgur.com/linIRxX.png

And yea this l33tz gatekeeper crap is why I don't do raids! Not that I can't or won't It's because of 3 things 1) time it takes 2) gatekeepers 3) toxicity

 

NOW appearing at a meta map near you!

[Croke.9124]

I've now beaten this meta twice. But I can see both the nerf, and keep it as it is sides here.

 

Last completion, we beat this with nearly 5 minutes - yes 5 MINUTES, not seconds to spare. We had so much time left we could have had a picnic and had a chat about our summer holidays.

 

This wasn't a 250li/kp squad. Just an advertised one, planned well in advance, with subgroups and everyone saying what build they had and placed accordingly. The instructions were clear and concise, and everyone CC'ed when they had to (and did every time) and dodged/did greens as intended. Absolutely flawless, with a random group, showing it can be done - and well.

 

The problem long term with the meta as some have mentioned - I think when i'm done with a few other achievements related to this meta I don't think I would play it again, and only do map related achievements. The rewards are terrible, the turtle isn't really that good anyway and isn't worth the time invested in it compared to others you could do for gold. So changes to the rewards would be a considerable improvement at the very least.

[Enundr.9305]

5 hours ago, Anaide.8251 said:

I will try to vent and provide feedback  objectively as I can. I have read other opinions, but today I decided to see for myself. I can't stress this enough: who designed this meta and for which target audience?

I raid (not a pro raider, but I pug most of the time) and raids are far easier than this. 

Anet, what in the name of Glint made you design this piece of content? I did not even try it out for the turtle,

I just wanted to do the meta. I wasted two hours of my life and most importantly I did not pug, I actually joined Hardstuck (who are nice enough to help players out).

 

You literally created 50 man raid content with awful RNG! That kitten dragon was moving head to tail like it was flipping a coin! We failed at 7%, and it was not the players fault.

You need to go back to the drawing board and figure out this clusterfluck of a meta, you are putting pressure on players to create the perfect squad and subgroups. In what Universe is that normal? And how can this be called open world meta?

 

I get it, you wanted to create the most epic battle, and instead you threw at it all of the possible mechanics that most likely make no sense when combined together. You threw every thing at it and failed completely. 

You managed yourself to divide your audience in two, and toxicity and hate surfaced like wildfire. I see enough toxicity in raid groups, did not need that cr@p in open world. 

 

Your options:

1. reduce the length (insert ain't nobody got time for that)
2. nerf the meta (if you are hardcore player, I don't care, play with your eyes closed, whatever - doubt you are the main source of revenue for Anet. Let's be real over here you are the 5% of the population plus you are referred to in point 4)
3. don't nerf the meta but fix the Head - Tail limbo over here
4. Make hardcore instance based meta, well slap all the Raid bosses if needed
5. improve the rewards and give them a  higher rate of drop: like slap all infusions as possible drops, and increase the drop chance
6. put the kitten turtle outside of the meta, so people can get the silly turtle that hits like a wet noodle.

 

The most unfun piece of content I have played in 20 years...that's an achievement. 

can gaurentee the hardcore audience is the very minority of the playerbase. wildstar proved this trying to cater to them and that mmo died out but bad , and at a record speed too (literally shutdown and everything , dont think FF14 1.0 went that fast before having to do its ARR thing , ill have to check the timers , not that the mmo itself actually shutdown for good but just got a remake basically)

[Palador.2170]

11 minutes ago, Croke.9124 said:

This wasn't a 250li/kp squad. Just an advertised one, planned well in advance, with subgroups and everyone saying what build they had and placed accordingly. The instructions were clear and concise, and everyone CC'ed when they had to (and did every time) and dodged/did greens as intended. Absolutely flawless, with a random group, showing it can be done - and well.

 

What you just described is far from random.

[Croke.9124]

4 minutes ago, Palador.2170 said:

What you just described is far from random.

Perhaps it was... But I think what it does say is that the commander did a very good job organising things, and getting things explained and everyone pulling their weight as a group. Kudos to him.

[Feothyr.6072]

26 minutes ago, Croke.9124 said:

This wasn't a 250li/kp squad. Just an advertised one, planned well in advance, with subgroups and everyone saying what build they had and placed accordingly. The instructions were clear and concise, and everyone CC'ed when they had to (and did every time) and dodged/did greens as intended. Absolutely flawless, with a random group, showing it can be done - and well.

 

Yet even that amount of preparation often isn't enough.

 

The German community has been organizing the DE meta at least once a day for the last couple of days - explaining everything on voice, getting a map an hour early to stack up damage buff, making subgroups, etc. The whole shenanigans. 
Today they had enough players to do two maps - one of them succeded with 2 minutes left on the timer, the other failed.  Second map had good dps, got all cc phases, split evenly on bosses, didn't waste any time, etc. Finished second boss phase with ~5-6 minutes left, which should've been enough to get the remaining 20% down, but couldn't because she decided to switch sides like crazy. Other map had like 2 side switches, while we had 8 or 9 in the last 5 minutes alone. 

If this amount of coordination and preparation isn't enough, I don't know what else to do.  Hope for better luck maybe.  

[jamesg.7128]

Something else I don't think I've seen mentioned, is that not everyone plays in NA prime time. There are players in other time zones too. NA prime time for me is 4am.

At my prime time the available pool of players is much, much smaller. I paid for the game too but the chances of me completing this unless I give up several hours of sleep are much diminished.

[Sarnai.8107]

So, I tried it for a couple of times again, until it all died out. LFG is etiher dead or quick/alac voice required parties. Tarir is more profitable to do and it happens in the same time.

EoD promised me:
Fishing and boat
Turtle
Cool new elite specs, finally a pet oriented ranger spec!
The ending of a saga, which actually got me back in game after a long long break (I left even before the first living world started)

What I got:
Fishing is boring and repetitive as hell, there is not that much to do with it other than a quick gold, and "contests" don't give enough rewards to feel like a contest.
Turtle is locked behind the meta event
New ranger spec is a joke and only viable in a solo play, noone wants untamed they want Power/Condi Soulbeast, esp on Soo Won
Plot pacing is all over the place, but it's not a thread to complain about it. AND YES some bits are still locked behind the meta event wee woo. I need to complete it 5 times to get the full dialogue!

And devs are still silent. Idk maybe they're actually busy trying to complete it with PUGs themselves.

Why leave the open world option in the game then, just make it the FromSoft levels of hardcore so those ppl who enjoy challenge will get it hiding at every corner. Why stop on one meta?

[DoctorOverlord.8620]

If a minority of players want to raid, more power to them and I hope they enjoy themselves.  I don't play GW2 to raid and I don't want to learn to raid, I don't have the time or the interest.  Everything I've head about this meta tells me I should avoid it because I will not enjoy myself and when I have the spare time to play games, I do it for enjoyment.

But ArenaNet used the turtle as a major selling point for the expansion and claimed it would be no harder to get than a rollerbeetle.  I don't remember needing to do a meta that is closer to a raid to get the beetle.  That was misleading and I thought I could expect better.

Edited March 9, 2022 by DoctorOverlord.8620

[Bunny.9834]

15 minutes ago, DoctorOverlord.8620 said:

ArenaNet used the turtle as a major selling point for the expansion and claimed it would be no harder to get than a rollerbeetle.  That was misleading and I thought I could expect better from them.

For real. I don’t remember doing an Meta with 99% failure rate for the Roller Beetle, or Griffon and even Skyscale lol.