Congrats on Dragon's End

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Very entertaining boss fight, one of the best you've made and a proof that some raid mechanics can work in open world content.

[Caitybee.3614]

It really is a great fight, I enjoy the mechanics keeping everyone on their toes and needing to work together. I'd say it's refreshing even, compared to all other map metas previously in HoT/PoF/Living World and Icebrood Saga. I only hope it gets improved so the success rate is a bit higher.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

13 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

It really is a great fight, I enjoy the mechanics keeping everyone on their toes and needing to work together. I'd say it's refreshing even, compared to all other map metas previously in HoT/PoF/Living World and Icebrood Saga. I only hope it gets improved so the success rate is a bit higher.

Yup. Adjust the consistency a little, but leave the one-shot, CC and AoE mechanics as is. Encounters like these should be punishing.

[Borked.6824]

I like it a lot too.  I even don't mind the rng or the lengthy map prep.  What I don't like is the lottery roll in getting a coherent group to knock it down.

[Gorem.8104]

2 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Very entertaining boss fight, one of the best you've made and a proof that some raid mechanics can work in open world content.

I feel like this is missing a /s, remember it can be hard to tell if someone is being sarcastic on the internet. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I wanted something like Dragonstand on HoT. Anet did just that with DE. Cant say I dislike that.

[MechanicalMind.9126]

6 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Yup. Adjust the consistency a little, but leave the one-shot, CC and AoE mechanics as is. Encounters like these should be punishing.

 

in open world...no it shouldnt be.. this isnt a raid...

[Vayne.8563]

If I believed for even half a second that the hard core community was somehow a majority in this game, or even a large minority, I'd be a bit more okay with the meta being as hard as it is.  However, I believe the bulk of the players in the game have never set foot in a raid, or they paid for a raid, or they got carried through a raid and probably never intend to play that content again.

 

If anyone thinks it's good business pissing off a majority or even a large minority of their player base, then they don't care about what's actually good for the game.  The problem isn't really the difficulty of the meta, but it's the last meta of a long story that up until now didn't exclude casual open world players.  It's a bad time and a bad way to insist they get good. To add to that locking the turtle collection behind this meta without saying so before launch makes some casual players feel like they were ripped off, because they've never had to do anything this hard before to get a mount.

 

At the end of the day, not everyone can even waste 2 hours to have an attempt that fails. For some people that's their entire evening's play every night for a week, but they too bought the expansion and they too thought they'd be able to reasonably get a turtle mount.

Anet may get a couple of people into hard core doing this, but they'll get more people who feel less like the game is their game. I don't believe it's sustainable, and ultimately I believe ANet will have to fix/nerf it.  I'm waiting to see if that happens. In the mean time, I'm less inspired to play than I would have been.  And I'm not inspired to spend money in the cash shop at all.

[GoldenPants.1870]

4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I don't believe it's sustainable, and ultimately I believe ANet will have to fix/nerf it.

Fix it, yeah, set the abilities on a rotating pattern, nerf it ? Absolutley not.

 

It’s already beatable today, 1-1-1 spam to win should not be a thing in metas, and thats why I like this one, it forces people to improve, be it getting better gear, or better builds.

[Peterson.5172]

6 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If I believed for even half a second that the hard core community was somehow a majority in this game, or even a large minority, I'd be a bit more okay with the meta being as hard as it is.  However, I believe the bulk of the players in the game have never set foot in a raid, or they paid for a raid, or they got carried through a raid and probably never intend to play that content again.

 

If anyone thinks it's good business pissing off a majority or even a large minority of their player base, then they don't care about what's actually good for the game.  The problem isn't really the difficulty of the meta, but it's the last meta of a long story that up until now didn't exclude casual open world players.  It's a bad time and a bad way to insist they get good. To add to that locking the turtle collection behind this meta without saying so before launch makes some casual players feel like they were ripped off, because they've never had to do anything this hard before to get a mount.

 

At the end of the day, not everyone can even waste 2 hours to have an attempt that fails. For some people that's their entire evening's play every night for a week, but they too bought the expansion and they too thought they'd be able to reasonably get a turtle mount.

Anet may get a couple of people into hard core doing this, but they'll get more people who feel less like the game is their game. I don't believe it's sustainable, and ultimately I believe ANet will have to fix/nerf it.  I'm waiting to see if that happens. In the mean time, I'm less inspired to play than I would have been.  And I'm not inspired to spend money in the cash shop at all.

honestly nerf or not i see DE dying in about 6-12 months, you'll probably get only one group doing it every 2 hrs. (same goes for the other EoD metas)

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Players need to calm down, they've already nerfed the meta, and its now doable by the majority of coordinated groups. If they remove the RNG entirely, then even pug squads will be able to do it.

 

Its only ever needed small tweaks to bring it into mainstream completion.

 

Alot of the negativity of the expansion is people not following the age-old rule of "don't play at release", which seems unfair but that's just how it is. Things take time to stabilise, and the best experience is always that sweet spot between initial release and inevitably becoming legacy content where its both stable and has a significant number of players doing it on a regular basis.

 

This rule is up there with others like "don't prepurchase' and "don't buy special editions". If you take a risk you're looking to be disappointed, so don't do it unless you're strong-willed.

 

The devs aren't responsible for you throwing all your eggs into one basket.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Vayne.8563]

2 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Players need to calm down, they've already nerfed the meta, and its now doable by the majority of coordinated groups. If they remove the RNG entirely, then even pug squads will be able to do it.

 

Its only ever needed small tweaks to bring it into mainstream completion.

 

Alot of the negativity of the expansion is people not following the age-old rule of "don't play at release", which seems unfair but that's just how it is. Things take time to stabilise, and the best experience is always that sweet spot between release and becoming legacy content where its both stable and has a significant number of players doing it.

It's not about how hard it is. It's about the design decisions behind how hard it is. This isn't a bug. This is Anet telling casual players if you want a turtle you better step up. They tried this with HoT too, and all it did was cost them players who had no intention of stepping up.  I feel like Anet doesn't know how to read their own player base.

[Peterson.5172]

3 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Alot of the negativity of the expansion is people not following the age-old rule of "don't play at release", which seems unfair but that's just how it is.

if putting out bad/bugged content at release is ok, i think it's only fair people get to complain about it

[Gehenna.3625]

The meta is fine, well, except maybe reduce the rng mechanics a bit; it just shouldn't be gating the siege turtle mount. Disconnect the two and this mass outrage will die down very quickly.

[Tails.9372]

7 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

a proof that some raid mechanics can work in open world content

That big 50+ player raids could work was never called into question but there is a right time and a right place for everything and for this one it's neither.

8 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

The meta is fine, well, except maybe reduce the rng mechanics a bit; it just shouldn't be gating the siege turtle mount. Disconnect the two and this mass outrage will die down very quickly.

Even then the meta wouldn't be fine because of the surrounding context. Remove the mount and you get a map thats doomed to die because it offers very little to the average OW player which is especially sad because according to them it was supposed to be that big celebratory OW map.

[Labjax.2465]

4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It's not about how hard it is. It's about the design decisions behind how hard it is. This isn't a bug. This is Anet telling casual players if you want a turtle you better step up. They tried this with HoT too, and all it did was cost them players who had no intention of stepping up.  I feel like Anet doesn't know how to read their own player base.

Yep. I was personally one of those players who was majorly put off by HoT and ultimately quit for like, what is it, 6 years or something? I only really came back because another game had just chased me away so badly and in general, I was struggling to find compelling stuff to play. I very nearly quit not long after coming back, in large part because of wanting to do a new character to keep things fresh and getting in a catch-22 about unlocking elite spec and getting gear for a recommended open world spec for the class (the best way to get the spec and gear was to have the spec and gear already). I did get it in the end, but it was a pain. And I can say with it (celestial ele build WoodenPotatoes made a vid about) it has made me feel like I can navigate even the worst of HoT without getting wasted all the time, and without that, I don't think I'd have much to get out of continuing to play. If I was one of those people who suffered the sustain nerfs or whatever, I'd prob have quit again. They make these big zones and fill them to the brim with deadly mobs and too many events and maps for the number of players, so you end up having to solo a lot of stuff that is meant for a group, which for me makes most of it unbearable without a spec like the one I found.

I mean, I remember HoT in the early days when that was the one expansion and there were far less end-game maps in the game than there are now, it wasn't like people were there all the time helping you out, even then. And I suspect it was at least in some part because of how big the maps are and how hard they are to navigate. To this day, I can get confused just trying to find my way to some POIs in Auric Basin and that's probably the simplest layout out of the 4.

Anyway, I digress, but I wanted to reinforce your point there that it has definitely had real consequences when they do this and idk why they insist on it. I can't imagine hardcore players are joining the game because of a meta like this when they can play dark souls or whatever. Based on the self reporting from posters on here, this just seems to be damaging player retention and loyalty.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

29 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

and its now doable by the majority of coordinated groups

Coordinated groups who kicks literally anyone with a non META-Build... right....
As I only run non-META builds, which I think are completly irrationnal on a "Freedom" standpoint; this locks some mendatory rewards away from those people who stand their ground about not being a mindless sheep, and who wants to play what they want to play.

Edited March 8, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[GoldenPants.1870]

3 minutes ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

Coordinated groups who kicks literally anyone with a non META-Build... right....

People don’t want to carry others, and even if they boot you from squad you can’t be booted from the map, so it’s really a moot point.

 

5 minutes ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

this locks some mendatory rewards away from those people who stand their ground about not being a mindless sheep and play what they want to play.

This is quite funny statement. 

 

First of all, the turtle is not a mandatory reward, you dont need it for anything, its just another mount that honeslty doesn’t have a use, seeing as the Skyscale/Beetle/Gryphon/Raptor already exists, and are way better.

 

Second, playing a meta build is not being a mindless sheep, it’s called using the best your class has to offer in order to not only kill the boss, but also not to be a burden upon others trying their hardest.

 

And as I have tried to help before, but only got rude replies back for my efforts, if you can’t handle the meta event, you need to get good, or else tough luck. you won’t get the turtle.

[Raknar.4735]

3 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I can't imagine hardcore players are joining the game because of a meta like this when they can play dark souls or whatever.

Just wanted to chime in to say that unlike this meta, the souls series respects your time and mostly doesn‘t use artificial difficulty timers on their bossfights.

What I‘m trying to say is that difficulty is handled differently in this meta and a Souls game. GW2 relies on timers / DPS in this case, it doesn‘t allow for prolonged fights. Apart from one exception, i can‘t really think of any Souls boss that requires any form of Dps threshold to beat, not even in the newest Elden Ring entry.

It also doesn‘t help that the meta also has the biggest RNG component of other players. So since the meta requires a certain amount of dps to not fail and you can‘t carry a whole map alone with your own stats, I‘d say it is badly designed difficulty. (And this is just talking mechanic difficulty, finding a map and a squad that can possibly beat the meta, the organizational difficulty, which can amount to a huge timewaste, simply doesn‘t exist in Souls)

[Erise.5614]

4 minutes ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

People don’t want to carry others, and even if they boot you from squad you can’t be booted from the map, so it’s really a moot point.

The current strategy of those LFG groups is to gather in arborstone, kick anyone not fulfilling their requirements, make the squad private, TP to DE, try to find an empty map. Get rid of as many players who are inside that map. And then play the meta 2h later. 

Strategies for getting rid of people are waiting, being annoying and following them or paying gold. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Erise.5614

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

7 minutes ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

First of all, the turtle is not a mandatory reward, you dont need it for anything, its just another mount that honeslty doesn’t have a use, seeing as the Skyscale/Beetle/Gryphon/Raptor already exists, and are way better.

It is a Mendatory per the Mastery Line, if you don't get your Siege Turtle, all the EXP Past "Fishing, Skiffing, Jade Bot and Arborstone" are wasted when you could get Spirit Shard otherwise because of the condition lock.
They should have kept that line hidden until unlocked like they have done with the HoT Raid Mastery. THEN I would have revised my word choice. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

11 minutes ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

Second, playing a meta build is not being a mindless sheep, it’s called using the best your class has to offer in order to not only kill the boss, but also not to be a burden upon others trying their hardest.

 

And as I have tried to help before, but only got rude replies back for my efforts, if you can’t handle the meta event, you need to get good, or else tough luck. you won’t get the turtle.

2nd, you use a build that someone took the time to build, that I can reecognize the effort, now how little you have contributed.

Also tried their hardest, like you probably 1st tried it no problem ezpz your balls squeezed and called it done. I've already spent over 30 hours (in a week) on that nonesense with absolutely no where close to having it done, meta builds or not.

I'm calling META Build Nonesense because even if you run META, if you dickkins around that won't serve the purpose, and those META Buildist just love to shove it into the casuals' faces, as many of this forum threads are proofs of already.

And lastly, figured you would be a "Git Guud" elitist type of person shenanigans *shrugs*

Edited March 8, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[Raknar.4735]

5 minutes ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

And as I have tried to help before, but only got rude replies back for my efforts, if you can’t handle the meta event, you need to get good, or else tough luck. you won’t get the turtle.

Wonders why he gets rude replies when he tells others to git gud. Funny guy.

Also, you‘re kinda wrong here my guy. Check this quote:

„For now, we’re targeting changes to improve successful completion rates of theencounter. If these changes don’t have the effect we’re looking for, we'll look at further changes to the encounter or potentially offer alternative acquisition paths for the Siege Turtle collection.“

Tough luck indeed. Seems like people will get their turtles. I‘m happy for them, as I‘ve already got mine days ago and wish others can also get the mount.

 

[GoldenPants.1870]

4 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

The current strategy of those LFG groups is to gather in arborstone, kick anyone not fulfilling their requirements, make the squad private, TP to DE, try to find an empty map. Get rid of as many players who are inside that map. And then play the meta 2h later. 

Hm, interesting, the group I completed it with was everywhere and nowhere at the gathering, but I can see how that would be a smart strat to get the players you requested, still he forced 0 players off the map, only asked them to join his squad.

 

 

[Labjax.2465]

8 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

I‘d say it is badly designed difficulty.

You know, I don't want to generalize too unfairly, but I think this is a problem GW2 has with a lot of its content. For example, I can't count the number of times I've been unable to do anything for extremely costly seconds because I'm spammed with CC by mobs, some of it either unavoidable or requiring perfectly timed dodge to avoid. It's a real pet peeve I have with mob design in more than one game, where NPC's spamming CC is supposed to be some kind of challenge. Do Dark Souls enemies CC you at all? I'm curious, I've never been enough of a hardcore experience chaser to want to try those games.