Meta + Strike Missions = Turtle. No thank you.

[Soon.5240]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not needed for anything in the game, it's a toy)

I was unaware of this when I bought EoD.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Soon.5240 said:

I was unaware of this when I bought EoD.

Don't preorder then.

Or, I guess, make a thread about how you think it should be required for anet to specify acquisition methods for everything in the expansion before they release said expansion. Not that this is likely to happen anyways, but who knows.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Cuks.8241]

2 minutes ago, Soon.5240 said:

I was unaware of this when I bought EoD.

Means of aquisition for specific rewards are most often not revealed before the game launch. This is quite normal for games in general. Maybe this is the first game you ever bought and comes as surprise to you but this is standard practice.

Also rpg games and many other type of games often lock rewards behind specific challenges. Collecting rewards by completing challenges is part of the games. 

[Astralporing.1957]

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I've already wrote about it, so maybe re-read the rest of the comment chain. I'm really not sure why you've decided to comment on this now, while at the same time disregarding everything that was written about it earlier.

Anyways, "long story short": allowing every reward to be acquired in whatever way, within whatever content they're already playing doesn't do anything to incentivize playing broader content of the game. If I can get everything by repeatedly killing a wolf in queensdale, it doesn't work as an incetive for me to move anywhere else. It really isn't that complicated and I'm confused about some people repeatedly pretending here that "playing broader content of the game" is somehow incentivized by providing same rewards everywhere.

Yes, that is a fair point. There should be some incentives for dipping into another content, on that i agree. But they should be given wisely, and should never push too strongly towards those other contents. 

Ultimately the players should still have a choice. Otherwise it is no longer an incentive for playing a content, but a penalty for not playing it. 

So, you can have one content offer a much faster path towards a reward than another. You can have content-specific rewards (rewards that might be interesting, but are primarily useful for that type of content), or more generally useable vanity rewards. Utility rewards however should never be fully locked out of some types of content that might find that kind of utility useful. And what never should happen is to lock a reward designed for one content behind a different content (especially one where that reward is not even usable).

[Sobx.1758]

12 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, that is a fair point. There should be some incentives for dipping into another content, on that i agree. But they should be given wisely, and should never push too strongly towards those other contents. 

Glad you understand that point now.

Quote

Ultimately the players should still have a choice. Otherwise it is no longer an incentive for playing a content, but a penalty for not playing it. 

So, you can have one content offer a much faster path towards a reward than another. You can have content-specific rewards (rewards that might be interesting, but are primarily useful for that type of content), or more generally useable vanity rewards. Utility rewards however should never be fully locked out of some types of content that might find that kind of utility useful. And what never should happen is to lock a reward designed for one content behind a different content (especially one where that reward is not even usable).

To use the turtle to its full extent, it requires more than one player anyways. Including co-operative pve modes for co-operative pve toy doesn't seem all that out of place to me. But this one sure is subjective and doubt there's much that can be said here to change how we see it. I'd see the issue with that if it was something required to make a progress in the story or to uncover new maps -that's the role gliding had in hot, mounts in pof and possibly skiffs/jadebots have in eod.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Cuks.8241]

22 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, you can have one content offer a much faster path towards a reward than another. You can have content-specific rewards (rewards that might be interesting, but are primarily useful for that type of content), or more generally useable vanity rewards. Utility rewards however should never be fully locked out of some types of content that might find that kind of utility useful. And what never should happen is to lock a reward designed for one content behind a different content (especially one where that reward is not even usable).

I dont mind if turtle would be just handed to players at the start of expansion. 

When I argue against such changes is the principle that designers shouldnt cave in to such requests because where does it end then. I also think its a good design that some desirable rewards are hidden behind harder challenges. 

I dont consider turtle as an essential utility, more a vanity item. It is provided to players where required - specific events and beyond that it is just vanity. The passenger seat is new but not required for anything. And it does make sense that cooperative gameplay gives cooperative mount.

Funny enough mounts are are also locked out in EOD story missions. Would you also argue against getting it as a reward for completing story mission? It is quite normal in games that combine open world and instances that open world also serves as a stage to display rewards from instance. 

[Soon.5240]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Don't preorder then.

Or, I guess, make a thread about how you think it should be required for anet to specify acquisition methods for everything in the expansion before they release said expansion. Not that this is likely to happen anyways, but who knows

Lordy you read a lot into my one sentence.   I've been playing since day one (10.6k hours) and maybe didn't log in 100 days total. And I probably haven't spent $200 on this game.  I've more than gotten my money's worth, and I don't begrudge paying for this expansion either.  Anet has more than earned my money.  And I didn't preorder.

 

I'm truly only on the forums to try and learn about the expansion.  Nothing so far has drawn me into it.  HoT and PoF introduced quality-of-life mounts and gliding and the game play was pretty straight forward.  It just appears that this expansion is not for me.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Soon.5240

[Healix.5819]

43 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Means of aquisition for specific rewards are most often not revealed before the game launch. This is quite normal for games in general. Maybe this is the first game you ever bought and comes as surprise to you but this is standard practice.

Expectations. Front page features aren't normally locked behind a side activity, especially when it's known that most people won't play it. It's like when a single player game has one of those - play an online match to progress - which never goes over well, but they still try to force it for obvious reasons. Notice how this is also the first time they've ever locked vertical progression without any alternatives.

[Sobx.1758]

38 minutes ago, Soon.5240 said:

Lordy you read a lot into my one sentence.   I've been playing since day one (10.6k hours) and maybe didn't log in 100 days total. And I probably haven't spent $200 on this game.  I've more than gotten my money's worth, and I don't begrudge paying for this expansion either.  Anet has more than earned my money.  And I didn't preorder.

 

I'm truly only on the forums to try and learn about the expansion.  Nothing so far has drawn me into it.  HoT and PoF introduced quality-of-life mounts and gliding and the game play was pretty straight forward.  It just appears that this expansion is not for me.

How am I "reading a lot into your one sentence"? If you didn't preorder, then you had every opportunity to check how you acquire the turtle and what it does before buying the expansion, so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with your previous post. That you didn't check what you decided to buy and the reality didn't meet your, apparently mostly baseless, assumption?

This is what you wrote:

2 hours ago, Soon.5240 said:

I was unaware of this when I bought EoD.

I didn't read into anything more than what you exactly wrote, it's just that the only way to not be able how you acquired turtle was to either preorder or not care enough to check before buying post-release. In either of these cases, you can probably just blame one person there.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Soon.5240]

Lol. I see that the forum hasn't changed since 2012.   I'll just go back to playing the game and leave playing the forum to you guys.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Soon.5240 said:

Lol. I see that the forum hasn't changed since 2012.   I'll just go back to playing the game and leave playing the forum to you guys.

...yeah, I'm not the one having problems with playing the broad/diversified content the game provides, but whatever you say.

[Zurmdragon.2015]

I just made a go at this and three hours later had to stop because there are a billion other things I can do with my time that are more fun, including dishes. It was a PUG explicitly made for the turtle purpose. I read up on it here and thought "well, I'm awful but not abysmally awful, let's give it a shot like people are encouraging others to do."

 

No more Strikes. I don't know if or when I'll give this a go again. Thank God I didn't ask my husband to do it with me. He might have broken his monitor. 

 

It's not the mechanics! They are mechanics I think we've seen in either the open world or the story, just chained together. I don't think they are complicated, but if you're introducing players to strikes, maybe having a character shout out what to do via a jade bot or something (like the story does with its major encounters) would be helpful as I think some players just don't pay attention to chat. Some more visibility of Li's attacks would be good though; a longer, brighter arrow that is bright red and overlays all the other noise would help.

 

The problem is the enemies are damage sponges. Li is actually not the worst, it's his lackeys. The longer these fights go on, the more likely it is that players are going to slip up. The more players go down and can't be brought up again, the less DPS there is, the longer the fight will go on, the more likely it is that players are going to slip up...

 

Nerf it. Nerf the kitten out of it. Make it a mode for the strike, I don't care. You want to get players into strikes? Make this another stair step. I know it's not the deep end but from where I am it's definitely deeper than is fun.

[Despot.3048]

If the adds seem to be sponges, what does that say about the DPS? The mechanics for beating the strike are as they always are. Don't stand in bad kitten. You could literally auto attack and dodge everything and still do the strike 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

12 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Glad you understand that point now.

I always understood that point. I just never uderstood your interpretation of it. Because what you think is not about incentivizing players. It's about strongarming.them.

The moment players start to feel the game tries to ignore their desires, and force them into a content they dislike, the fun stops.

Also, while i do see worth in incentivizing players to feel like trying out different types of content, i see no worth in trying to forcefully save types of content not enough players are interested in at the cost of greater player dissatisfaction. Nor do i see any worth in continuing to push players in some types of unpopular content long after devs realized those types are (and will remain) unpopular.

Quote

To use the turtle to its full extent, it requires more than one player anyways. Including co-operative pve modes for co-operative pve toy doesn't seem all that out of place to me. But this one sure is subjective and doubt there's much that can be said here to change how we see it. I'd see the issue with that if it was something required to make a progress in the story or to uncover new maps -that's the role gliding had in hot, mounts in pof and possibly skiffs/jadebots have in eod.

And i see no practical differences here, so we're not going to agree with each other.

As i see it, turtle is a mount that's designed for open world, and open world alone. As such, it should be obtainable through open world alone. Not through endgame instanced content designed for small minority of players. Not even if said content is being disguised as open world map meta.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[flog.3485]

On 3/22/2022 at 8:36 PM, Zok.4956 said:

It is actually the other way around. The game exists for players to have fun (and then Anet gets paid by these happy customers).

Anet should understand what their customers like/dislike and should make the content its customers have fun playing. If Anet is doing a good job, there is no need to push players into content they do not like.

And if Anet is making content that it knows is only for a small part of the player population - that is Ok, too. As long as players who do not like that type of content can keep ignoring it.

 

 

But you have no proof that people are not actually enjoying the strikes overall. Or that the amount of people that own the mount is actually increasing.

 

What kind of metric are you using here  ? The few same people over here that have been spamming the forums for quite some time and that straight up refuse to engage in any kind of endgame instanced group content ? Where were these people when they locked skins like the a cape and a complete armor set behind the strikes from the icebrood saga? You do realize we are in some sort of a echo chamber here. 

Personally, the more I play EoD the more I see turtles in open world. And you know what is even more amazing: the fact that you can interact with it even if if you don’t own one. 

 

 

 

[flog.3485]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I always understood that point. I just never uderstood your interpretation of it. Because what you think is not about incentivizing players. It's about strongarming.them.

The moment players start to feel the game tries to ignore their desires, and force them into a content they dislike, the fun stops.

Also, while i do see worth in incentivizing players to feel like trying out different types of content, i see no worth in trying to forcefully save types of content not enough players are interested in at the cost of greater player dissatisfaction. Nor do i see any worth in continuing to push players in some types of unpopular content long after devs realized those types are (and will remain) unpopular.

And i see no practical differences here, so we're not going to agree with each other.

As i see it, turtle is a mount that's designed for open world, and open world alone. As such, it should be obtainable through open world alone. Not through endgame instanced content designed for small minority of players. Not even if said content is being disguised as open world map meta.

But these strikes aren’t designed for a minority of people. They are called normal strike. They are the bosses that you encounter in the story.

 

Yes it is designed for open world but unlike the other mounts you can access it even if you don’t own it and unlike the other mounts, no you are not locked out of story it content such as the beetle and the griffon that provide races.

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, flog.3485 said:

But these strikes aren’t designed for a minority of people. They are called normal strike. They are the bosses that you encounter in the story.

And? They are designed for a completely different gameplay style - one that a majority of PvE players have already seen and rejected. Those are not the first strikes in this game, remember? We already know that they are not a content for many players - and these new strikes aren't any different.

Quote

Yes it is designed for open world but unlike the other mounts you can access it even if you don’t own it and unlike the other mounts, no you are not locked out of story it content such as the beetle and the griffon that provide races.

Like you noticed, not having beetle, griffon or skyscale does not lock you out of any story. Not even races, since Anet started putting mount vendors near them. Not that it actually matters - turtle is still designed for open world, but locked behind a content it is not designed for, and a content which most OW players do not play.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Derkojote.1957]

Now comes the other problem with locking content people pard for behind Strikes. If no one is running them Again A net had Taken payment, then withheld content. As the maps depopulate more and more will be without means to run the missions. Turtle should have been part of the story line as they made it seem it was going to be. I will hope they fix this before any more things come out. As it is now, I am not paying them for Anything more till they remove the Strikes from blocking Open World content, and as soon as I finish this content, I, like Many others have begun to, will be going to seek entertainment ells were. Sad, as I have loved this game since before HOT, and what use to be a really friendly and fun community, but A net has spoiled that. Cater to elitist play Get trolls every time.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

24 minutes ago, Derkojote.1957 said:

Now comes the other problem with locking content people pard for behind Strikes. If no one is running them Again A net had Taken payment, then withheld content. As the maps depopulate more and more will be without means to run the missions. Turtle should have been part of the story line as they made it seem it was going to be. I will hope they fix this before any more things come out. As it is now, I am not paying them for Anything more till they remove the Strikes from blocking Open World content, and as soon as I finish this content, I, like Many others have begun to, will be going to seek entertainment ells were. Sad, as I have loved this game since before HOT, and what use to be a really friendly and fun community, but A net has spoiled that. Cater to elitist play Get trolls every time.

Story content, but with a 10 player group is now elitist.

[Searry.6120]

On 3/11/2022 at 4:44 PM, yoni.7015 said:

So the turtle was the primary reason for you to purchase the expansion? and you are not willing to spend ten minutes in a strike mission to get it? You are standing in your own way here. Like you wrote before you haven’t even tried them. The time you spent here complaining, you could have easily done the strike mission. 

lol ten minutes you are funny, i spend hour and half in  total in that strike mission with a a full party and failed it 3 times. as it is i don't foresee myself continuing to run it as of now.

[Linken.6345]

15 minutes ago, Searry.6120 said:

lol ten minutes you are funny, i spend hour and half in  total in that strike mission with a a full party and failed it 3 times. as it is i don't foresee myself continuing to run it as of now.

30min each try, what did you run it with 10 bear bow ranger in nomad gear?

[Sena.2761]

1 hour ago, Searry.6120 said:

lol ten minutes you are funny, i spend hour and half in  total in that strike mission with a a full party and failed it 3 times. as it is i don't foresee myself continuing to run it as of now.

If you still need it, send me a mail ingame. I run these every day and organize the parties, and I'd be happy to help.

[vares.8457]

57 minutes ago, battledrone.8315 said:

 

only your own greed and laziness is preventing you from doing the same.

 

Why are casuals always so toxic? 

[yoni.7015]

4 hours ago, Searry.6120 said:

lol ten minutes you are funny, i spend hour and half in  total in that strike mission with a a full party and failed it 3 times. as it is i don't foresee myself continuing to run it as of now.

You clearly did something wrong there 

[Tails.9372]

3 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

30min each try, what did you run it with 10 bear bow ranger in nomad gear?

30 minutes means an average DPS of 4,72k per person (usually 1-3 players carrying the rest) which is already way above average given that the average DPS for the broader player base is around 2-3k. The about 10 minutes per clear some people are bringing up here are from hardcore raiding guilds like SC and one has to be quite delusional to think that these numbers (and anything anywhere close to it) can realistically be applied to the rest of the player base.