Opinion on Dragon's End Meta.

[Mystflower.7319]

I first wasn't sure if I should share my opinion on it, since so many people already have but... I figured I should anyways.

I don't think it should be changed. And yes I know, people will hate me for it. I call myself an average player, I have never done raids because I already know that I won't be able to keep the elites happy 😉 But that  said, the META event reminds of the old days when Guild Wars 2 just came out and we all had to learn how the mechanics of the lovely dungeons worked. We didn't complain back then that the dungeons were to hard, we kept trying, learning, trying, learning, until we finally managed to succeed. And once you've succeed, you know what to do and what not to do. And yes in this case, your luck depends on all those people who are with you trying to do the event.  My tip is: Listen to your commander, listen to what the NPC's are saying, because they do give you valuable tips on what to do next. Plus, I know everyone loves to use their own builds but yes, for events like these it will help if you check online some builds that do good dps and cc and quickness (I am a noob myself when it comes to these things). Also having a lot of firebrands in your team, works as well! (That's how I managed to get the egg).

As I understand the frustration of failing over and over again (I took me five tries), the more you do it, the better you get at it as you learn what to look out for, when to dodge and yes in the end the dodging part is a pain in the butt but once you get the hang of it, it gets easier.  And once you learn something, don't keep your knowledge to yourself, share it with others who struggle. So, my point basically is: Be happy that we finally have something challenging again, something you can learn from instead of rushing through it and saying after you've done it "When comes the next living story? I'm bored, I've done everything.." 😉

Edited March 15, 2022 by Mystflower.7319

[Custodio.6134]

Totally aggree. 
While i understand that people that are not able to complete the Event successfully are getting frustrated, they most likely do have one thing in common. It´s the lack of investment from the player itself, that leads to the results we have been seeing shortly after EoD release. Of course this does not apply to everyone, but early runs of the meta with organized squads have revealed that it is absolutely doable (and we didn´t even have optimized strats for the encounter at the time of the first successful completions of DE). This is not an issue of a single player not "giving everything they can and actively working on personal improvement", but a collective sum of all the people that fall into that category. Yes, the "good"/"progressive"/"hardcore" players are able to make up for the other players' "flaws", but there is a limit on how much they can drag others with them to success. 

There are a few reasons why this specifically happens in the DE Meta: 
The meta is indeed pretty hard, in relation to all the Meta-Events we had previously. It not only has a pretty tough time-limit (in other words, higher DPS-requirements than other events before), but is also mechanically difficult (you have greens, breakbars, specific adds to clear, target-shifts, boss-split phases, movement requirements etc.). In addition to that, the Event does punish you pretty hard, if you ignore these mechanics. 

However: this is something within the player´s ability to overcome. If the player is willing to adapt to the newfound difficulty he/she is facing in this meta. And THIS is imo the reason why this meta still fails so often (note: i´m writing this knowing that today will be another patch, probably increasing the DE Meta completion rates).

 

The player is now confronted with the fact, that you need to put effort into the game in order to achieve something. However, the "average" player is used to getting away with everything, due to the (compared to the DE Meta) lower skill requirements on the Open World content prior to EoD, and the ability of the "better" players to make up for the "worse" players they are playing together with.

 

However, in DE you don´t get away with running your LI (low intesity)-build, or whatever you randomly selected for your skills/traits because they look fun, 1-1-1ing the boss for 2k DPS or even less anymore (yes, i´ve seen tons of people dealing these low DPS-numbers in non-pre-organized runs frequently).

Side Note, for readers that are not familiar with DPS-numbers: any condition-mech with ascended gear can auto-attack for 5k DPS without pressing any buttons other than 1-1-1, adn without utilizing any food, utility or offensive boons


The only points i agree on (referring to the frustrated people that are still struggling to complete the DE meta) are: 

1. The amount of time needed for preparations on the pre-events is extremely high, in relation to the chance of failure which currently is also extremely high with random people. 

 

2. the sudden difficulty-spike compared to previous meta-events (although i don´t fully aggree, since imo the meta is not too difficult, but all the previous content was too easy imo)

 

3. the rewards you get for the successful completion of DE (compared to other Meta-Events, and taking the current difficulty and needed investment of time in order to prepare and complete it into account) are pretty low. To put it into numbers: the [fast]-farming Community currently calculates ~30g/hour in profit for an organized squad running meta-builds in DE. For comparison: a Dragonfall-run with pugs (non pre-organized squads) is currently calculated with ~50g/hour in profit. Add in the fact, that you need at least triple the time to complete the DE Meta (well, it is accounted for in the calculations, but is a factor that also needs to be accounted for outside of profit calculations) does indeed make it pretty frustrating to complete, especially when combined with the (currently) high chance of failure. 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Custodio.6134

[Hume.2876]

They need to pump up the rewards and make it easier to start fresh maps.  Squad leaders should have the option of starting in a clean map.  This would be a huge improvement for organized guilds and such.

[Custodio.6134]

17 minutes ago, Hume.2876 said:

and make it easier to start fresh maps.  Squad leaders should have the option of starting in a clean map.  This would be a huge improvement for organized guilds and such.

Yes. either this, or making an instanced version of the Meta which you can enter with a pre-built squad. 

Just like how the Dragonstorm-Event currently works, but with some small adjustments. These adjustments would include adaptions of event scalings (since you can only enter with a maximum of 50 ppl due to the limit of squad sizes), since the meta probably is balanced for different player numbers currently. However, locking the instance behind a timer (what Dragonstorm currently does, since it opens a public instance every 2 hours and locks squad-instances during that time) would not be ideal. We just would need a seperate gate/waypoint/whatever entrance point you are required to take, that is specifically made for squads, or a prompt that ask if you want to enter a squad instance if you try to join the map while you are in a squad currently. 

This would probably even satisfy both "parties", the people wanting to maximize success rates by forcing people to play meta-builds and joining voice comms, AND the "normal" players that just want to complete it with randoms (since this basically doesn´t influence them at all). 
Obviously this would require adaptions to the balancing of both versions of the meta to even it out. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Custodio.6134

[decease.3215]

You don't understand. it's not just the turtle.. 

First. you have to farm this meta for jade bot module component.

Second. EOD specialization weapon require you to complete meta on specific specialization

Its not a one time thing.. They expext you to farm it 24/7.     Consider it take 3-3 hours to do this meta..and high chance of failing..This is a sign.. Casual player no longer welcomes to this game.....

Edited March 15, 2022 by decease.3215

[Peterson.5172]

its open world, where for the last 10 years you could do with holding down 1

whereas DE requires you to:

1. join a discord/pick the right group
2. prepare 2 hrs in advance
3. have a meta build (until now everyone's been saying you can use anything for ow, which you also have to look up outside the game, because the game doesnt teach that)
4. understand boons, roations etc.

im not saying DE can't be harder than 1 spam, but it's too much of a step up in one go. anet is trying to compress 10 years of learning into one meta

[Custodio.6134]

4 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

You don't understand. it's not just the turtle.. 

nobody even mentioned the turtle in this thread except you. and the requirements for the turtle are not even the topic of this discussion. 

 

10 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

First. you have to farm this meta for jade bot module component.

no, you don´t. Jade-Bot modules only require you to farm chunks of Pure Jade from this map, which you always can mine regardless of the meta. 
 

 

12 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

Casual player no longer welcomes to this game.....

no, it´s the first time the game wants you to actually invest (in form of proper gearing, time, learning mechanics) into the game. 

 

42 minutes ago, Custodio.6134 said:

The player is now confronted with the fact, that you need to put effort into the game in order to achieve something. However, the "average" player is used to getting away with everything, due to the (compared to the DE Meta) lower skill requirements on the Open World content prior to EoD, and the ability of the "better" players to make up for the "worse" players they are playing together with.

 

[decease.3215]

4 minutes ago, Custodio.6134 said:

nobody even mentioned the turtle in this thread except you. and the requirements for the turtle are not even the topic of this discussion. 

 

no, you don´t. Jade-Bot modules only require you to farm chunks of Pure Jade from this map, which you always can mine regardless of the meta. 
 

 

no, it´s the first time the game wants you to actually invest (in form of proper gearing, time, learning mechanics) into the game. 

 

 

I guess you haven't start crafting module?  If youn have.. Please provide the source of "Depleted jade siege shell".    So far the only source i know is eod meta.

 

What do you means invest?  People who pro WVW, PVP and other stiff don't count as invest in the game?

 

So.. You are saying is only raider are welcome... Everyone else need to invest in the game? Or you are capable of carry the entire squad to succeed?  I like to see you do that

[Coyote Trickster.7319]

11 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

I guess you haven't start crafting module?  If youn have.. Please provide the source of "Depleted jade siege shell".    So far the only source i know is eod meta.

 

Seitung Province, Jade vault vendor (Empress throne Room). every week you can buy 5 chests from her for each map.  

[Custodio.6134]

14 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

I guess you haven't start crafting module?  If youn have.. Please provide the source of "Depleted jade siege shell".    So far the only source i know is eod meta.

Yes, it is currently the only known source for depleted jade siege shell, but that is only a requirement for Tier 2 and Tier 3 siege turtle enhancement. And the meta was required for the acquisition of the siege turtle anyways. Even though this is subject to change, no other module does require it. 
EDIT: just noticed you can even buy it from a vendor 
 

 

14 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

What do you means invest?  People who pro WVW, PVP and other stiff don't count as invest in the game?

investing any type of resource into the game, in order to receive any type of reward in the game. 
I need to invest materials in order to craft better gear. I need to invest time in order to collect currencies and material. This is what i mean with investing. To give away a resource (which can be anything. literally, anything. Gold, time, real world money, practise of rotation) in order to receive a reward (gold, materials, a new mount, better DPS in raids, whatever you consider as a being rewarded with). 
I also don´t get why you even mention "pro WvW, PvP and other stuff" in the context of "not investing in the game". That´s neither the topic, nor did i ever say anything like that (in fact: i totally aggree that you have to invest a LOT in the modes of PvP and WvW, since my main game-mode which takes way over 75% of playtime is WvW)

Edited March 15, 2022 by Custodio.6134

[decease.3215]

1 minute ago, Custodio.6134 said:

Yes, it is currently the only known source for depleted jade siege shell, but that is only a requirement for Tier 2 and Tier 3 siege turtle enhancement. And the meta was required for the acquisition of the siege turtle anyways. Even though this is subject to change, no other module does require it. 

 

 

investing any type of resource into the game, in order to receive any type of reward in the game. 
I need to invest materials in order to craft better gear. I need to invest time in order to collect currencies and material. This is what i mean with investing. To give away a resource (which can be anything. literally, anything. Gold, time, real world money, practise of rotation) in order to receive a reward (gold, materials, a new mount, better DPS in raids, whatever you consider as a being rewarded with). 
I also don´t get why you even mention "pro WvW, PvP and other stuff" in the context of "not investing in the game". That´s neither the topic, nor did i ever say anything like that (in fact: i totally aggree that you have to invest a LOT in the modes of PvP and WvW, since my main game-mode which takes way over 75% of playtime is WvW)

When you join a group host by a unknow commander..  How likely will you suceed?

 

This meta is not about investing or learn the mechanic.  Its all about having an elite raid guild or have plenty of time to waste. Unfortunately i have neither.

 

I complete this meta once.  And most likely i will never touch it again.  How often will you run thus meta?  Weeks?  Months? Years?  

 

Alot of groups these day only run pre meta now.  If they don't nerf it.  This will be a dead meta that only occasionally run by raid guild.

 

Again.  If you want challenge do raid.. Dont ask player to for. Organized squad in open world. Its not realistic for most player.

 

P.s. depend on playing hours and time zone.  I rarely find groups for this meta.  Good thing i alreadt get it done.

[Taygus.4571]

Ive said it before..and I'll say it again.

If Anet wants high level of organisation...open world is not thr place for it.

50 man raids are a great idea...if you can organise your squad, and not have to hope on spamming join map.

They have the possible of both public and private dragonstorm/marionette.  They should have done the same with Dragons End. 

Trying to get in on a forcing a new map to be created with a squad is a nightmare and its rediculous. 

Let guilds open their own map instances, for hard meta events

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Taygus.4571

[Satenia.9025]

1 hour ago, Custodio.6134 said:

Totally aggree. 
While i understand that people that are not able to complete the Event successfully are getting frustrated, they most likely do have one thing in common. It´s the lack of investment from the player itself, that leads to the results we have been seeing shortly after EoD release. Of course this does not apply to everyone, but early runs of the meta with organized squads have revealed that it is absolutely doable (and we didn´t even have optimized strats for the encounter at the time of the first successful completions of DE). This is not an issue of a single player not "giving everything they can and actively working on personal improvement", but a collective sum of all the people that fall into that category. Yes, the "good"/"progressive"/"hardcore" players are able to make up for the other players' "flaws", but there is a limit on how much they can drag others with them to success. 
 

 

The level of delusion here is simply astonishing. If you successfully made it through the encounter, you were lucky, it is as simple as that. There is no such thing as claiming personal credit for an open world encounter featuring 50+ players, which are outside your control. And no, getting into an "organized" map does not change that fact. And neither does grinding out the kills.

[Custodio.6134]

13 minutes ago, Satenia.9025 said:

 

The level of delusion here is simply astonishing. If you successfully made it through the encounter, you were lucky, it is as simple as that. There is no such thing as claiming personal credit for an open world encounter featuring 50+ players, which are outside your control. And no, getting into an "organized" map does not change that fact. And neither does grinding out the kills.

Which element of "we built a squad, did proper preparations and organized well in order to succeed" does contain "luck"?

 It´s even the opposite, with preparation, investment into builds and organization with other people in form of an organized squad and voice we were eliminating the "luck"-element almost entirely.

I´m not claiming this for myself btw (i don´t even claim that i was the diciding factor for successfully completing the meta on our second try). 

I am only stating, that proper preparation and organization ultimately leads to success, and that i did my part to contribute to that. From all the attempts we had (~10 until now) we had only 1 failure (our first attempt one day after release). Our squad leaders adapted to what we learned from this first failure, and we then only had successful meta-events with said group (everyone in voice and playing proper builds etc). Where are you getting the "lucky" from?
Luck by getting matched with people who are willing to learn the encounter? No, because we prepared squads beforehand with people that are willing to do so
Luck by RNG within the encounter? no, because if "luck" would have been a factor, we could not have cleared the meta consistently on a daily basis
Luck by finding this organized squads? maybe, because i actively searched for those people and ultimately found them.


If you are able to consistently clear an encounter as a group (with proper preparations) then "luck" is no longer a factor to begin with. 

[Borked.6824]

1 hour ago, Taygus.4571 said:

Ive said it before..and I'll say it again.

If Anet wants high level of organisation...open world is not thr place for it.

50 man raids are a great idea...if you can organise your squad, and not have to hope on spamming join map.

They have the possible of both public and private dragonstorm/marionette.  They should have done the same with Dragons End. 

Trying to get in on a forcing a new map to be created with a squad is a nightmare and its rediculous. 

Let guilds open their own map instances, for hard meta events

 

No.  There are other games out there that do raiding and instanced content 10x better than GW2 can.  If people want that type of content, I seriously encourage them to go there, for their own enjoyment.  GW2 IS open world events.  It might as well be a bumper sticker by now.  Literally no other game does what GW2 does, and is a reason why specific people play it.  We either figure out how to healthily incorporate this content into the OW or this game dies a slow death of identity crisis.

The play right now is to use the bespoke energy and creativity that gave us dynamic events and mounts, and apply it to group formation and organization.  It's the linchpin for all the friction regarding this content.

[Taygus.4571]

1 hour ago, Borked.6824 said:

No.  There are other games out there that do raiding and instanced content 10x better than GW2 can.  If people want that type of content, I seriously encourage them to go there, for their own enjoyment.  GW2 IS open world events.  It might as well be a bumper sticker by now.  Literally no other game does what GW2 does, and is a reason why specific people play it.  We either figure out how to healthily incorporate this content into the OW or this game dies a slow death of identity crisis.

The play right now is to use the bespoke energy and creativity that gave us dynamic events and mounts, and apply it to group formation and organization.  It's the linchpin for all the friction regarding this content.

So you prefer pure luck and map join spam? 

 

Its 2 choices.. either hard 50 man instanced content or easier open world.

 

Hard open world, is pure luck and trying to organize it or get into organised groups, sucks

[Friday.7864]

My opinion is that it's the worst content I've seen so far in the game 🙂


It's the first time I felt like "Kitten! It's finally over! I need a break from the game" after finishing a collection.
It's a terrible 2h grind with a good chance of failure. Not my cup of tea.

[Gorem.8104]

Is the OP Trolling then just logged into a different account to agree with themselves? 

This meta is non-consensual raiding. Raiders fail it if they get bad enough RNG even after doing the massive setup and spending 3 hours on it to get nothing. How are pugs, the lowest common dominator, supposed to do it? This is open world. I've made huge suggestions detailing I Think it was 8? Changes that if they did, would make the meta still "epic" and possible for everyone but woud stop this mass failing of a meta they want you to farm constantly. 

Once I've maxed out masteries in Cantha and finished the Turtle, I am never setting foot on this continent again. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Cuks.8241]

Where did all of you get 3 hours? It's 2 hours even though 1,5 hours is more than enough only right now everyone wants to get a fresh map with as little of bandwagoners as possible on the map.

Is it too long? Well yeah. Pre events get boring fast and the part after the escorts is just more of the same, could be much leaner. But its not 3 hours.

[Excursion.9752]

I don't mind the difficulty. I do mind the time it takes to properly attempt to win.

I've tried 5 times with pretty good groups I would consider.  Got it down to 7% one time.
 
The build up to the fight down 3 lanes in my opinion is unnecessary and eats up a players valuable playing time. If you're like me and have limited time to play and at set hours so every failed attempt is hours wasted. Sure its fun to do it the first couple of times but what about when the newness wares off? This is exactly the reason why I dislike and do not participate in the Drizzlewood Coast metas anymore. I got what I needed and rarely will come back much like this meta after I get my win.

 

[Caitybee.3614]

20 hours ago, Mystflower.7319 said:

I first wasn't sure if I should share my opinion on it, since so many people already have but... I figured I should anyways.

I don't think it should be changed. And yes I know, people will hate me for it. I call myself an average player, I have never done raids because I already know that I won't be able to keep the elites happy 😉 But that  said, the META event reminds of the old days when Guild Wars 2 just came out and we all had to learn how the mechanics of the lovely dungeons worked. We didn't complain back then that the dungeons were to hard, we kept trying, learning, trying, learning, until we finally managed to succeed. And once you've succeed, you know what to do and what not to do. And yes in this case, your luck depends on all those people who are with you trying to do the event.  My tip is: Listen to your commander, listen to what the NPC's are saying, because they do give you valuable tips on what to do next. Plus, I know everyone loves to use their own builds but yes, for events like these it will help if you check online some builds that do good dps and cc and quickness (I am a noob myself when it comes to these things). Also having a lot of firebrands in your team, works as well! (That's how I managed to get the egg).

As I understand the frustration of failing over and over again (I took me five tries), the more you do it, the better you get at it as you learn what to look out for, when to dodge and yes in the end the dodging part is a pain in the butt but once you get the hang of it, it gets easier.  And once you learn something, don't keep your knowledge to yourself, share it with others who struggle. So, my point basically is: Be happy that we finally have something challenging again, something you can learn from instead of rushing through it and saying after you've done it "When comes the next living story? I'm bored, I've done everything.." 😉

We already have a million threads on the meta. I no longer have to touch it again thanks to the Writs option, so I don't care. 😛

[Mystflower.7319]

5 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

We already have a million threads on the meta. I no longer have to touch it again thanks to the Writs option, so I don't care. 😛

Hey I wrote this last night, before the writs 🤪

[Mystflower.7319]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Is the OP Trolling then just logged into a different account to agree with themselves? 

No I can be sure I haven't been trolling you. More likely there are luckily people who agree with me in one way or another. I get your frustration, seriously. But to call this raiding content. Nah. If it was, how did a group of pugs (like me) made it last night? It was even the commander his/her first try of commanding the event. It all comes down to people listening to what they should do and what they shouldn't do.

We're all too spoiled in this game with how easy most things can be done solo.. It's an MMO... which means you'll need to learn how to work together, accept the fact that sometimes you'll have to adjust your build and gameplay to match with your group. As a casual veteran player, this Meta is for me not worse than the first try of Ascalonian Catacombs back in the days. I don't think I can even recall how many times I failed that dungeon back then. And yes it's frustrating, but it's doable. And hopefully now with the changes they are making, things will get easier for most players. And otherwise, you now have the writs.

[blp.3489]

27 minutes ago, Mystflower.7319 said:

As a casual veteran player, this Meta is for me not worse than the first try of Ascalonian Catacombs back in the days. I don't think I can even recall how many times I failed that dungeon back then. And yes it's frustrating, but it's doable. And hopefully now with the changes they are making, things will get easier for most players. 

I wasn't around back then, did the Ascalonian Catacombs take two hours to run, with no restart from a checkpoint, and leave 50 players with no loot if it failed?

[QueenKeriti.5176]

11 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

I wasn't around back then, did the Ascalonian Catacombs take two hours to run, with no restart from a checkpoint, and leave 50 players with no loot if it failed?

You'd lose all your money from your gear constantly breaking when you died a few dozen times and had to pay to repair your gear, and then would come out of the dungeon with nothing to show for your time and effort and would be significantly poorer than before. GW2 used to be PAINFUL, especially compared to now.

 

The no rewards at all on this meta's failure is definitely jank, though, especially if you did enough events to have the full buff before the meta.