Only nerfs, no buffs to sustain, no way for more elemental empowerment uptime, no hammer orb change....

[insistent.8369]

When it comes to self buff sustainability from catalyst, dagger/dagger easily meet the requirements, but ive not really tried the hammer yet.

[Archwizard.1603]

Well, looks like I am back to playing weaver. R.I.P. Catalyst.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I am no longer supporting or speaking well of catalyst like I have been in the past. What in the world were they thinking. Were they afraid of all the hammer combo's or something? were the aura and elemental empowerment buffs too easy to acquire and too strong? The reason this sucks so bad is hammer has absolutely zero fields. This just sucks. Also with the elementalist having too high a benchmark, what they don't realize is ele needs a higher benchmark in perfect scenarios than other classes because a perfect rotation isn't necessarily easy to come by outside a pro group that can allow you to ignore mechanics and keep you alive. Basically, the ele's damage drops off harder than any other profession and in order for it to perform in a practical scenerio it has to have a higher ceiling to offest the damage drop off. Anet, you guys are balancing like a bunch of clowns and have zero direction with elementalist. You are slowly forcing ele into dps only, and the dps sucks because it isn't reliable and nothing else is provided with it on top of being as tough as wet paper. Why don't you just admit the mistake of making hammer 3 what it is, fix the actual issue, and stop nerfing everything else in the class to avoid having to change hammer 3 because than it would be an admission of your own slip up in profession design. But ohhhh no, were gonna keep trying to shove a square peg in a circular hole and hope it works. I don't know if you already know this, but over 50% of the community, or social media community, already thought the mechanic was weak, lame, and not suitable to practical situations because it was immobile and energy generation is a pain when you can't get it with an orb out. I guess you fixed the energy problem by just nerfing the orb to the point where we can't have it up so we will always be generating energy. yay. This may be an overreaction, not too sure yet, but seriously you guys are becoming a giant meme at this point of terrible and sporadic balance decisions. If you are gonna constantly nerf us and limit our options of playstyles, how's about you revisit the 70% of ele that doesn't work and make some new things viable. Oh, and lets not forget those awesome augments that for some reason needed a nerf. Just nerf the orbs already because that is the outlier that is making it so you have to nerf eeeeevery other aspect of cata in order to keep them powerful, even though most people don't enjoy that at all. I'm guessing whoever designed it is the only one who thinks it's cool and because they came up with it they refuse to eliminate it. 

[Infusion.7149]

19 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

The difference between small and big hitbox was 6k before the nerf. The small golem hitbox is not really small. its still big enough for all orbs to multihit. There are a lot of hitboxes that are too small for this like xera.

Roul posted this also below his video. Outside of hitbox was just 38k.

 

To be fair, the video says  38-39K or so. Considering that is more than power weaver and most other power specs, if the QoL issues were fixed it would still be reasonably strong (obviously not when it is 33K and hard to play to that level). I'm still of the opinion weaver should be top DPS and that EOR change should be reverted , unlike catalyst it isn't spitting out boons in the meta build.

If you look at the large hitbox log and add up all hammer orbs it is 6K or 14%  (550K total damage out of 4 million) and it's similar for the small hitbox log so in order for that to be relevant it means that you cannot hit all with any hammer orbs.

Arenanet's solution in the past has been to reduce radius from 200 to 130 (melee range). It is quite likely if the damage isn't up to par that the radius will essentially be on the player. The only hitbox I've seen smaller than 130 other than Xera that is a raid boss is Sabetha. The other ones such as Minister of Morale in Cold War or Fraenir are strike missions. More importantly, the new strikes such as Mai Trin , Ankka,  Minister Li, and Harvest Temple all reward movement which penalizes hammer orbs' upkeep heavily making the jade sphere change extremely short sighted and that doesn't even include the strong condi favoritism.

[epothos.4831]

I'm still semi-new to Anet's shenanigans, but it's finally clear to me. They are complete brain dead morons. Make a garbage specc no one asked for and nerf it so that no one wants to play with it either. What a shame.

[Nephalem.8921]

15 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

To be fair, the video says  38-39K or so. Considering that is more than power weaver and most other power specs, if the QoL issues were fixed it would still be reasonably strong (obviously not when it is 33K and hard to play to that level). I'm still of the opinion weaver should be top DPS and that EOR change should be reverted , unlike catalyst it isn't spitting out boons in the meta build.

If you look at the large hitbox log and add up all hammer orbs it is 6K or 14%  (550K total damage out of 4 million) and it's similar for the small hitbox log so in order for that to be relevant it means that you cannot hit all with any hammer orbs.

Arenanet's solution in the past has been to reduce radius from 200 to 130 (melee range). It is quite likely if the damage isn't up to par that the radius will essentially be on the player. The only hitbox I've seen smaller than 130 other than Xera that is a raid boss is Sabetha. The other ones such as Minister of Morale in Cold War or Fraenir are strike missions. More importantly, the new strikes such as Mai Trin , Ankka,  Minister Li, and Harvest Temple all reward movement which penalizes hammer orbs' upkeep heavily making the jade sphere change extremely short sighted and that doesn't even include the strong condi favoritism.

You forget the part where cata has a slow rampup because it needs to get both stacks first. it also drops those stack in splitphases again. power Weaver has burst, is a lot easier to play. Let weaver be the condi build and cata power. well currently you take neither because weaver was neutered years ago and nobody really plays it. "But its still very valid" argument. please stop. its triple the effort of other specs while offering lower dps than firebrand. no sane person plays that and the sub 1% playrate shows that.

cWeaver needed qol buffs, cata needed qol buffs and they nerfed both. Pve ele is in a very meh state for years now. sure you can play it but its just worse than a lot of easier and safer to play specs like firebrand, willybender, harbinger, condi signet mech which is a disgrace and should have the dps of shortbow only slb. Ele is so irrelevant in pve that you could delete it entirely and 99% of players in raids and fractals wouldnt even notice that.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[The Great Al.2546]

48 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Actually, what is wrong is that if you are top DPS, it's hard for Anet to give you  sustain, cc, real gap closers, reflects and  base health. It's possible to conclude Anet WANTS to give Catalyst these things.

It's also possible just to conclude that DPS was just too high for Anet's tastes. To be fair, Catalyst DOES have many of the things you listed there so your view is a little distorted from reality. 

 

No, it's not possible to conclude those things; if they wanted to give Catalyst those things they would have.

Edited March 15, 2022 by The Great Al.2546

[Obtena.7952]

11 minutes ago, The Great Al.2546 said:

 

No, it's not possible to conclude those things; if they wanted to give Catalyst those things they would have.

You are right ... If Anet wants Catalyst to have those things, they would (and BTW, some they HAVE) given them all the time. But we also see that Anet has given Catalyst something they didn't want it to have, so they took it away. 

So yes, it's absolutely possible to think that Anet is going to continue to change these new specs to tune them where they want them to be in performance for YEARS if they have to because that's what they do.  Either by taking things away OR by giving things to them. I mean, they are still tweaking CORE features in the last patch. Seriously, you should have a better look around before you start believing things that aren't real. 

Here is the kicker though, these things they touched today, these are the HOT SPOTS. Imagine that ... these things are all the things that were the WORST offenders for them since launch. So get ready. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Flori.2194]

16 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You need to pay more attention to the game and how Anet changes it. They give things to classes that they take away all the time. They give things to classes they wanted them to have that they didn't have all the time. EVEN THIS PATCH shows that. 

So yes, it's absolutely possible to think that Anet is going to continue to change these new specs to tune them where they want them to be in performance ... for YEARS if they have to ... because that's what they do. 

You are so full of yourself and obsessive with your way of thinking that you can't look outside of the little pond your muddy brain is generating. 

The people from Arenanet are obviously not capable of balancing their own (!) game properly. They either lack the pure manpower or the knowledge. And I think it's both. EVEN THIS PATCH shows that. They are constantly failing to deliver just a small amount of QoL patches for some classes, they are straight up lying about their approach of balancing and are so bad at their jobs that I have no doubt that I can achieve whatever the fook I want in this world because we do not live in any way, shape or form in a meritocracy. I highly doubt that anyone at the balance team even plays the game well enough to know what they are doing, they probably use some data and some videos and some third party websites but never even tried to play a class for real. 

And then there is you, always shittalking us, that we all are the ones without a clue, that those buffoons in Seattle know something everyone else enfranchised to this game doesn't know. But when a lot of players that are so in love with this game and invested towards it tell you something, you should at least listen to it and take it seriously. We are not in this forum because we take it easy. A lot of us play Ele to death and love the class, so maybe our hive mind is much more capable of pointing at the problem than the two people at the balance team are, because there is no way there are more people working on balancing...

 

And fooking rip my English, I don't give a flying fook, just as much as the wonderful balance team doesn't give a fook about balancing...

Edited March 15, 2022 by Flori.2194
stop censoring me, you cowards

[crosknight.3041]

back to tempest i go, if they arent going to address the things players have been saying sucks for months on the new spec im not gonna use it.

jade sphere remains clunky with the energy mechanic being unbearably punishing (you lose all your energy when you go down) and placing the field down is more of a situational buff considering it seems every enemy likes to move out of the orbs field making boon application much worse then other specs. (atleast make the field mobile around you like scrapper gyros with a trait to increase it's duration)

augments are still boring, and hammer 3 still belongs on weaver among other things the community has been saying since the first beta

[Flori.2194]

17 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

... for YEARS if they have to ... because that's what they do. 

And of course they do it for years, they pump out one fooking balance patch per year and call it a day, of course they have to do it for YEARS... Better be lucky your favourite class gets some love in summer or otherwise better luck next year, you moron. But hey, buy my new Skiff skin!

Edited March 15, 2022 by Flori.2194
fooking censoring

[Serephen.3420]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You need to pay more attention to the game and how Anet changes it. They give things to classes that they take away all the time. They give things to classes they wanted them to have that they didn't have all the time. EVEN THIS PATCH shows that. 

So yes, it's absolutely possible to think that Anet is going to continue to change these new specs to tune them where they want them to be in performance ... for YEARS if they have to ... because that's what they do.  I mean, they are still tweaking CORE features. Think you should have a better look around before you start believing things that aren't real. 

Here is the kicker though, these things they touched today, these are the HOT SPOTS. So get ready. 

Please can you just go back to the mesmer forums. I know you're just trying to be encouraging but it's not helping. I had so much faith they were gonna do things sensibly and well. Perhaps I gave them too much credit, because they just chose the lazy and easy way out. I have finally reached the point of no confidence that anet will make any meaningful posituve change to ele anymore. 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

oh don't you worry they have a plan... Just you wait... this is leading up to something... Maybe a year from now.. Maybe two if they have to... Possibly 3 it's not that long... Why do you care about catalyst anymore? we just got a new espec that weilds the awesomely powerful mainhand shield!! They'll make it viable next year though, just you wait...

[Serephen.3420]

5 minutes ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

oh don't you worry they have a plan... Just you wait... this is leading up to something... Maybe a year from now.. Maybe two if they have to... Possibly 3 it's not that long... Why do you care about catalyst anymore? we just got a new espec that weilds the awesomely powerful mainhand shield!! They'll make it viable next year though, just you wait...

Too soon, too soon.

[Alradab.5491]

ok, controversial opinion: after playing with it a bit... I love the sphere changes?

 

the increased sphere cooldown sounds really bad but actually i think its one of the best changes catalyst could receive. sphere could either go the rapid fire, shoot as much as you have energy route or the swap to refresh, only one sphere per element route. the rapid fire route encouraged you stay in air to maximize quickness uptime, leaving only for a fire field and to generate energy. this meant that quickness per sphere had to stay low to make sure you invested in boon duration, and required sphere specialist to have small numbers. By taking the route of one sphere per attunement per "cycle" is what gives sphere specialist the room to be 100% and makes sure that boon Catalyst uses 1 fire 1 air and 1 water/earth sphere. This means you are encouraged to bring defensive boons into your group instead of quickness only and sacrificing everything else for dps. i still think the boon duration and energy generation is a bit low which makes the boons tighter than they need to be, but this seems to be a step in a solid design direction

 

this definitely isn't the balance change we need but its helping to shape Catalyst into something that feels a bit better to play

 

Edit:

ive reevaluated stuff, i didnt realize how bad the dps nerf was. like 33.5k doing selfish dps? on a class that already struggles on non golem encounters? anet why? 

 

I love this class and i was just starting to get the hang of the really idiosyncratic rotation and things. i was already really sad that tempest got its only positive point slashed in comparison to other healers; my main build cut down in its prime. i tried to fill that void with catalyst, and even doing my best to enjoy it and find the good things in the spec, but of course now i know that my initial instinct to drop the class and learn specter was probably the right one. 

 

ele has always been the black sheep of the heard, not really having a place in most pve content, and being crowded out by engi, for condi clear and heals, or any other dps, for not being as glass, in wvw. Im genuinely starting to believe that maybe anet hates ele, or just doesnt care or lacks vision as to what an elementalist really means, like as a class. idk im just going to take a break for a few days

Edited March 16, 2022 by Alradab.5491
change of opinion

[Caid.4932]

I'd be probably be bothered by this but i hate the design of the spec way too much to care.

[Shiyo.3578]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That data isn't relevant to the nerf. I'm absolutely certain that Anet's DPS targets and data are much more relevant that player's third party websites.

Considering the people who make the top benchmarks disagree with their decisions, you'd be wrong.

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Daddy.8125 , the bladesworn burst was nerfed because it was legitimately breaking raids such as Deimos where you can skip phases in a fashion never done before

Yes. That is correct, however originally the bladesworns gunsaber abilities were balanced around it existing at its original value. 

Tearing out a bunch of damage and not compensating the gunsabers ability damage is what made it a nerf. 

Which resulted in now a optimal bladesworn rotation quite litterally ignoring it's existence outside the forced seconds after jade slash. 

[Obtena.7952]

12 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Considering the people who make the top benchmarks disagree with their decisions, you'd be wrong.

It's not a question of if I'm wrong. It's a question of what Anet wants. I don't make these changes. They do ... and they are going to use their process to do it, not the process players want to impose on them, including whatever data you want them to look at. The ironic thing is that this is what players have been asking for many years now ... well, this is what it looks like. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Daddy.8125 said:

Yes. That is correct, however originally the bladesworns gunsaber abilities were balanced around it existing at its original value. 

Tearing out a bunch of damage and not compensating the gunsabers ability damage is what made it a nerf. 

Which resulted in now a optimal bladesworn rotation quite litterally ignoring it's existence outside the forced seconds after jade slash. 

They also reduced cast time though.

[Puck.3697]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

They also reduced cast time though.

Well true, but still in most situations berserkers gonna do its role better with less risk effectively. 

They stacked a power build ontop of a power build already existing this monoply was always gonna go one way regardless. 

It's just sad they decided to give that to the build warriors have used in PvE for 8 years. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Daddy.8125 said:

Well true, but still in most situations berserkers gonna do its role better with less risk effectively. 

This was a straight nerf. It wasn't as though they just cut quickness.

[Puck.3697]

6 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

This was a straight nerf. It wasn't as though they just cut quickness.

A straight nerf that will lead to berserker reaching 10 years of optimal choice yeah, but effectively while it does the same job as berserker but worse. It's a dead elite none the less realistically. 

I suspose at best we can say warrior got a new solo build. If that's the result warriors were hoping for by the end of it. 

Does have the PvP aspect though. Til it's nerfed ofcourse. 

I suspose we can be thankful that we have berserker to fall back onto which isn't as bad as weaver as banner slave is a meta choice. So we got that over ele sure. 

But how many warriors wanted a new elite to not use and just return to banner slaving? Not alot I'd imagine 

But either way on topic: these patch notes these changes did nothing for any of what the community actually wanted. And seemed to just nerf a specc that was barely used to begin with. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

7 hours ago, ArjukKagrim.6049 said:

are the devs even playing the game

No.

But seriously, people should go look back at all their patch notes for the last few years. Every single one is a mix of nerfing things to the point that those builds dont exist anymore, reworking things no one asked for, ignoring pvp and wvw, and making empty statements like "We think X is too strong because..." or " Y is performing very well in all types of content".

I get that mmos are very difficult to maintain but that doesnt explain how they keep completely missing the mark on class balance.

[Bunny.9834]

Wow, I didn't think it was possible to nerf trash, but I guess it is. 🧐