Does Anet hate Mesmers?

[Yoci.2481]

It has been mentioned in this thread several times.

[Lotus Bane.9387]

I was honestly hoping the name Virtuoso meant we were finally getting a good support elite useful in WvW.  Gave me a bard-ish hope.

Ended up getting a dps focused PvE elite.  Kind of difficult for PvP and roaming in WvW because of the obvious animations.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Lotus Bane.9387

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I didn't realize until tonight, that they called the Virtuoso Weapon in EoD Prima Donna, which has two definitions....

1 - the chief female singer in an opera or opera company.
2 - a very temperamental person with an inflated view of their own talent or importance.

Which one do you think they were thinking of when they named The Virtuoso dagger that?

many giggles

[Puck.3697]

7 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I didn't realize until tonight, that they called the Virtuoso Weapon in EoD Prima Donna, which has two definitions....

1 - the chief female singer in an opera or opera company.
2 - a very temperamental person with an inflated view of their own talent or importance.

Which one do you think they were thinking of when they named The Virtuoso dagger that?

many giggles

I will say excluding the name however where praise is needed. 

That dagger is amazingly well designed. 

That name is quite funny tho 😂 

Same with willbender, they got willbenders and virtuosos weapons so good. 

Whoever did the art style and more around virtuoso clearly did love mesmer, it's one thing I can most defintly give this specc credit for, appearance wise it's one of the most polished. 

Shame the balance Devs went and stuck a knife in whoever worked so hard on it. 

P.s this is no way to discredit it's balancing point. Or relevant to state of balance, it's still not justified what they have done to it. Even anything makes it less justified. 

If virtuoso came out the door swinging. I think the popularity this specc could of drawn would of been huge. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[FarmBotXD.1430]

We are currently still waiting for cmc's response to our balance post about megapatch.
At this rate I am going to die of old age before we get it 😄

[Kylden Ar.3724]

On 3/22/2022 at 9:36 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Dont forget, alacrity was one of Chronomancers Mechanics before they decided to Strip it of that also,

 

 

They NEVER should have converted it to a Boon effect. That was the mistake there. When it was unique to Chrono, and didn't count as a boon for things that interacted with boons, it was easier to balance around and actually made the class unique.

[Salt Mode.3780]

56 minutes ago, Kylden Ar.3724 said:

 

They NEVER should have converted it to a Boon effect. That was the mistake there. When it was unique to Chrono, and didn't count as a boon for things that interacted with boons, it was easier to balance around and actually made the class unique.

There was many things that were unique and promised as unique that the Devs later shot their foot and gave it to other classes.

Confusion at the start of the game was a Mesmer exclusive condition, perplexity allowed everyone to have it.

The introduction to torment was necro exclusive, then they gave it to everyone.

Last but not least Alacrity being a class mechanic and now its widespread to everyone. I understand they gave it to other jobs for class diversity, but it doesn't make sense that the class that was sold on alacrity is doing less then other specs that were given to.

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

There was many things that were unique and promised as unique that the Devs later shot their foot and gave it to other classes.

Confusion at the start of the game was a Mesmer exclusive condition, perplexity allowed everyone to have it.

The introduction to torment was necro exclusive, then they gave it to everyone.

Last but not least Alacrity being a class mechanic and now its widespread to everyone. I understand they gave it to other jobs for class diversity, but it doesn't make sense that the class that was sold on alacrity is doing less then other specs that were given to.

I disagree I don't understand at all for class diversity. 

The choice of proffession should matter. The concept of "everyone does everything" is boring. Anet are going down the wrong path the whole "we want everyone to be able to do everything".

Alacrity should have remained a feature exclusive to chronomancer 

Elites should double down on the core proffessions features. Not expand to new ones because continous expanding just creates so much overlap. 

This is why I hate spectre to such degree, it's not a thief, it exists only to allow the concept of thieves having a support role. And imho that's mental. 

There are far cooler magic based thief concepts out there if they just let thief be thief and doubled down on it being a thief in different ways. 

The continous overlap is killing the game, you don't need this "but it be balanced" nah, it won't be. Because the moment you bring alacrity in it's just whatever can add the most plus alacrity. Because the goal post moves. 

 

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

27 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I disagree I don't understand at all for class diversity. 

The choice of proffession should matter. The concept of "everyone does everything" is boring. Anet are going down the wrong path the whole "we want everyone to be able to do everything".

Alacrity should have remained a feature exclusive to chronomancer 

Elites should double down on the core proffessions features. Not expand to new ones because continous expanding just creates so much overlap. 

This is why I hate spectre to such degree, it's not a thief, it exists only to allow the concept of thieves having a support role. And imho that's mental. 

There are far cooler magic based thief concepts out there if they just let thief be thief and doubled down on it being a thief in different ways. 

The continous overlap is killing the game, you don't need this "but it be balanced" nah, it won't be. Because the moment you bring alacrity in it's just whatever can add the most plus alacrity. Because the goal post moves. 

 

 

I would agree to this but there are too many casuals whining in PvE as it is. Everyone just gotta have everything.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[viquing.8254]

10 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

The concept of "everyone does everything" is boring.

I've been waiting since 2012 to have viable AOE groups impacts builds while seeing other classes (Particulary GWENR teamfight classes.) were given plethora of duelling tools.

3 extensions later we are always at the same spot while beeing nerfed...

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

I've been waiting since 2012 to have viable AOE groups impacts builds while seeing other classes (Particulary GWENR teamfight classes.) were given plethora of duelling tools.

3 extensions later we are always at the same spot while beeing nerfed...

It's amazing the concept of "let's make dodge a offensive ability" hit the idea table faster then "ground targetted shatters" 

Honestly a absolute mystery. 

I would love to see chronomancers shatters made ground targetted. Would be a awesome opportunity to push the time based aesthetic on its F1 - F4 properly. 

 

[Yoci.2481]

Good thoughts in the last few posts. 😊

[SaferMurderweapon.7143]

100% absolutely yes

 

They had a change in management sometime in or around 2019 and a lot of people came and went. 2019 also was when all the class butchery began starting with the SoI change and then requiring clones for shatters and taking away Distort from Chrono. There has also been a clear demonstration of class bias since GW2 launched. Remember how Necro used to always see nerfs but Guardian always got buffs despite being the most popular class? Pepperidge farm remembers...

Edited April 22, 2022 by Vincenzo.3145

[psi.9304]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:57 AM, Vincenzo.3145 said:

100% absolutely yes

 

They had a change in management sometime in or around 2019 and a lot of people came and went. 2019 also was when all the class butchery began starting with the SoI change and then requiring clones for shatters and taking away Distort from Chrono. There has also been a clear demonstration of class bias since GW2 launched. Remember how Necro used to always see nerfs but Guardian always got buffs despite being the most popular class? Pepperidge farm remembers...

Lol now those two classes are now unstoppable monster on all content of this game. Then people kitten about us being good in one area of the game but you have to know what you are doing. (Raids) -_-

Edited April 25, 2022 by psi.9304

[Lethion.8745]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:51 PM, Kylden Ar.3724 said:

 

They NEVER should have converted it to a Boon effect. That was the mistake there. When it was unique to Chrono, and didn't count as a boon for things that interacted with boons, it was easier to balance around and actually made the class unique.

I disagree with that. Having Alacrity only on Chrono means that you have to have Chrono in every single end-game squad. Anet also has realized that this approach is very limiting to the players and reworking Warrior Banners and Druid Spirits as well. What they needed to do is to keep Chrono's ability to give Alacrity. If they are so determined to seperate supports into Quickness and Alacrity givers, they could have just force Chronos to choose one so they won't be able to give both. It can be very easily accomplished by placing main Alacrity giving trait in the same column as Seize the Moment.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 3/16/2022 at 1:07 PM, raineybilly.6439 said:

Like for real, I know Power Mirage was kind of busted back in the day...

As long as we're acknowledging that ^ And that condi mirage was also that busted, I have no issue with admitting power mes/its derivatives can use some adjustment nowadays. As long as we avoid (for PvP/WvW)

*Chronobunker

*Pre-nerf condi mirage

*Interactions with power block synergizing heavily with power builds

*Any buffs to the above making condi-virtuoso any stronger

I wouldn't mind sweating a little more when a mes pulls out a greatsword. Just keep in mind that whatever your balancing suggestions are, they need to leave room for counterplay. I'm not willing to do the whole (stun a mirage only for them to Mirage cloak into distortion to ignore repercussions for getting stunned) story arc again, but I -WOULD- like fighting more high speed power mirages/power chronos. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Not worth creating a new topic so I'll post here. 

Gravity well - "create a powerful well that warps space in an area, knocking down, floating and pulling foes caught in its event horizon. WHEN IT EXPIRES, FOES STILL INSIDE THE WELL TAKE HEAVY DAMAGE". 

Final damage: 3 (0.01)

More than 2 years to fix the tooltip, let's see if they beat the jaunt record with this one. 

[mortrialus.3062]

6 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Not worth creating a new topic so I'll post here. 

Gravity well - "create a powerful well that warps space in an area, knocking down, floating and pulling foes caught in its event horizon. WHEN IT EXPIRES, FOES STILL INSIDE THE WELL TAKE HEAVY DAMAGE". 

Final damage: 3 (0.01)

More than 2 years to fix the tooltip, let's see if they beat the jaunt record with this one. 

Ripping all damage from CCs is still the most baffling change from the megabalance. 

[Mungo Zen.9364]

1 minute ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Ripping all damage from CCs is still the most baffling change from the megabalance. 

This leads me to believe that Anet doesn't hate Mesmers, they simply do not understand their game or player base.  Looking forward to the nonsense they drop on June 28 in the name of balancing the game and making all Professions 'playable'.

[mortrialus.3062]

36 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

This leads me to believe that Anet doesn't hate Mesmers, they simply do not understand their game or player base.  Looking forward to the nonsense they drop on June 28 in the name of balancing the game and making all Professions 'playable'.

The thing is the most overpowered thing relating to Cc before the megabalance was Prime Light Beam, specifically because holosmiths could cast it from stealth.  Because Prime Light Beam has no projectile but immediately makes a field when it finishes this meant they could cast a blow out with good damage with literally zero tell.

Which could be easily fixed by just having Prime Light Beam put self reveal on the holosmith when they begin casting it like DEs Deaths Judgement.

Other than that maybe rampage could have used at 10% trim across the board.

Most fast or instant interrupts already did minimal damage.  The ones that did do damage tended to have big tells and were supposed to be very very valuable.

Instead the literally remove all damage from Cc. Just bizarre.

Edited April 26, 2022 by mortrialus.3062

[Mungo Zen.9364]

13 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Just bizarre.

As you get older, the more you look at the world, you can see how lazy people have shaped everything around you.  Maybe not just lazy, people who don't make the time to do the right thing, to do the good thing.  Businesses don't make decisions based upon player experience at crunch time, they make decisions based upon cost and available manpower.  The choice to nuke damage on CC likely came down to it being too complicated to invest the time into working on a proper fix and the fastest solution was provided instead.

Which leads to another reality you can observe as you get older, while they may have intended to go back and fix these, people rarely go back to fix stuff if they don't have to.  This game is littered with examples of changes made and left for years that have left parts of this game broken, buggy, or just unplayable.

One of the best MMO's out there in 2022, yet developed and managed by a team too lazy to do the right thing and invest time into polishing the game.

[mortrialus.3062]

30 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

As you get older, the more you look at the world, you can see how lazy people have shaped everything around you.  Maybe not just lazy, people who don't make the time to do the right thing, to do the good thing.  Businesses don't make decisions based upon player experience at crunch time, they make decisions based upon cost and available manpower.  The choice to nuke damage on CC likely came down to it being too complicated to invest the time into working on a proper fix and the fastest solution was provided instead.

Which leads to another reality you can observe as you get older, while they may have intended to go back and fix these, people rarely go back to fix stuff if they don't have to.  This game is littered with examples of changes made and left for years that have left parts of this game broken, buggy, or just unplayable.

One of the best MMO's out there in 2022, yet developed and managed by a team too lazy to do the right thing and invest time into polishing the game.

Like there was no "CC Problem" in the first place for the brute force change to make any remote sense. Literally everyone looked at the change and was completely baffled when it came out.

If you have a weapon set whose win condition is a 3k CC into a 5k main damage skill, when you take away the CC's damage the weapons win condition is a 5k damage hit.  Which literally every class can completely shrug off with their healing skill let alone their passive sustain. 

Which lead us directly into the post megabalance world where everything feels sloshy, slow, spammy, and unimpactful. Because you need to land that 5k main damage skill 4, 5 or 6 times to kill anything instead of once or twice. Not even counting how many defensive options exist that can completely avoid your one damage skill, let alone if that damage skill can even outpace their healing skill and passive sustain.

It was an extreme nuclear sledgehammer solution to a problem that straight up didn't exist at all. Which is why it's so especially bizarre.

Edited April 26, 2022 by mortrialus.3062

[viquing.8254]

12 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

As long as we're acknowledging that ^ And that condi mirage was also that busted, I have no issue with admitting power mes/its derivatives can use some adjustment nowadays. As long as we avoid (for PvP/WvW)

*Chronobunker

*Pre-nerf condi mirage

*Interactions with power block synergizing heavily with power builds

*Any buffs to the above making condi-virtuoso any stronger

I wouldn't mind sweating a little more when a mes pulls out a greatsword. Just keep in mind that whatever your balancing suggestions are, they need to leave room for counterplay. I'm not willing to do the whole (stun a mirage only for them to Mirage cloak into distortion to ignore repercussions for getting stunned) story arc again, but I -WOULD- like fighting more high speed power mirages/power chronos. 

Then we face classes with 3 on 1 skills literraly immune to hard CC with more evade uptime (or who can just facetank burst passively). But hey it's fine because they "don't evade while cced". I find whine about "evade while stunned" kinda outdated just to say.

Having more hard CC than a dedicated CC mesmer is weird IMO. And many classes throw now CC like peanuts.

About chrono bunker 2.0 it was due to phantasm rework which lead only to 2 more dead utility skills, same for traits. This 1 season after the rework. Maybe they can find a solution about this one day.

Actually power block synergize better with condi build than power one. Not even talking about the competition with the damage on shatter trait.

3 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Ripping all damage from CCs is still the most baffling change from the megabalance. 

Holo wasn't the main issue IMO.

When you had warrior (just because he was the most impacted) doing half of their damage on op 3 in 1 skill it wasn't baffling at all.

Mean I was facing top 10 wars prepatch, 90% of their damage were :

1) Unblocable evade spam damage.

2) Hard CC who hit like a truck while having no tells or evade frame.

 

Now imagine other classes doing the same, you just played a game where everyone spam hard CC randomly and it kill you without even noticing.

 

 

 

 

 

[mortrialus.3062]

7 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

Then we face classes with 3 on 1 skills literraly immune to hard CC with more evade uptime (or who can just facetank burst passively). But hey it's fine because they "don't evade while cced". I find whine about "evade while stunned" kinda outdated just to say.

Having more hard CC than a dedicated CC mesmer is weird IMO. And many classes throw now CC like peanuts.

About chrono bunker 2.0 it was due to phantasm rework which lead only to 2 more dead utility skills, same for traits. This 1 season after the rework. Maybe they can find a solution about this one day.

Actually power block synergize better with condi build than power one. Not even talking about the competition with the damage on shatter trait.

Holo wasn't the main issue IMO.

When you had warrior (just because he was the most impacted) doing half of their damage on op 3 in 1 skill it wasn't baffling at all.

Mean I was facing top 10 wars prepatch, 90% of their damage were :

1) Unblocable evade spam damage.

2) Hard CC who hit like a truck while having no tells or evade frame.

 

Now imagine other classes doing the same, you just played a game where everyone spam hard CC randomly and it kill you without even noticing.

 

 

 

 

 

Holo wasn't the main issue.  It was just the most unfair combo.

Arcing sclice was the main damage skill for strength spellbreaker.  Arcing slice, full counter, spam arcing slice again.  Whirlwind blade also hit hard, if they landed right.

Bulls charge was overloaded, but it was more the evade that was the problem as it allowed them to easily break combat and reset the fight due to being a very very long range dashing evade. If they were using it on you it was comfortably evaded and even it landed you could stunbreak and evade the follow up.

Rampage did too much damage but it was used as a hail mary when their basic kit failed and as a mesmer with chaos storm pretty easy to just no sell.

Unblockable dodge was a pain.

Nothing about that required megabalance, which has left us for with the most boring, awful meta ever since.

I also fought tons of really excellent spellbreakers and never had zero idea what hit me like you're suggesting.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

The problem with the removal of damage from cc is that they didn't take the kit in consideration, some professions lost a portion of the damage from the weapon kit while others got a free pass.