Most underused weapons/skills/traits for necro

[Nimon.7840]

With the most recent Studio update arenanet released some very exciting news.

Quotes:

"...we’ll be making professions and elite specialization updates a higher priority..."

"... In addition to the number tweaks that you’re used to seeing, the team will be revisiting some underpowered and underused weapon skills, traits, or utilities for each profession in each profession update..."

 

What traits/weapons/skills do you think need an update/ rework (and why)?

 

I'll start here with an example:

Dagger mainhand: rework

it's not really used in any kind of Necro build. It's a utility weapon but in pvp modes the Autoattack isn't usable (low range with no real payoff. Its way too self punishing to go I to melee with dagger) and in PvE the lifeforce Generation of the Autoattack is the only useful utility.

warhorn 5: rework

If you use wh 5 you solely use it for the swiftness. The life Siphon and lifeforce Generation do not impact the gameplay at all.

Sadistic searing - rework

Make it more appealing to take on DPS builds over desert empowerment. 

dagger offhand 5: update

Speed up the animation

Harbinger shroud: update

Update so allies as well as enemies see the harbingers health bar while harbinger is in shroud.

All shroud versions: update

Remove the green border on the screen. It overrides the yellow border from boss mechanics

 

That's not all the changes I want to see, but my top 6.

what do you think?

Edited March 24, 2022 by Nimon.7840

[Asum.4960]

Agreed.

Beyond that it kind of depends on what constitutes underpowered and especially "underused". Even more so on a game mode to game mode basis. 

With Necromancer especially, the list of underpowered and underused weapons, utilities and Traits for PvE is sheer endless (I'd wager around 60-80% of the available choices are essentially noob traps in PvE), but at the same time, a lot of those see, or over the years have at some point seen, some use in competitive. 

At which point is a niche, while valid in that, so small that it doesn't justify the weapon/skill/trait remaining in that state just for it - and a rework broadening it's horizon justified? 

 

Plague Signet being a good example I believe. Sure, I've seen it used effectively in PvP as cheesy counter to Condi bursts, but is that one niche use-case in one niche game mode really worth it? Imo not.

 

That to some extend goes for Staff, Focus, Warhorn, Dagger MH, Axe, large parts of Blood Magic and almost the whole of Death Magic, Minions, Core Shroud, etc. 

Most things have a use somewhere, but they could easily be a lot more versatile and broadly appealing.

 

But if we just consider skills and traits that are imo pretty hard to argue to need a touch up regardless of game mode (either because they are just bad, or their niche is just way too small given their context [i.e.: niche Trait in only one gamemode, in a Traitline rarely used within that game mode]), I'd say:

Warhorn 5: Locust Swarm

Focus 4: Soul Grasp

Dagger MH

Dagger 5: Enfeebling Blood 

cShroud 1: Life Blast

cShroud 4: Life Transfer

c&hShroud 4 UW replacement: Gathering Plague

Staff 1: Necrotic Grasp

Summon Bone Fiend

Corrupt Boon

Epidemic

Plague Signet

Spite: Spiteful Spirit 

Spite: Death's Embrace

Spite: Siphoned Power

Spite: Chill of Death

Curses: Parasitic Contagion

DM: Armored Shroud

DM: Flesh of the Master 

DM: Putrid Defense

DM: Soul Comprehension

DM: Dark Defiance

DM: Beyond the Veil

DM: Death Nova

DM: Unholy Sanctuary 

BM: Life From Death

BM: Banshee's Wail

Reaper: Augury of Death

Reaper: Relentless Pursuit

Reaper: Blighter's Boon

Nothing Can Save You

Scourge: Sadistic Searing

Desiccate

Serpent Siphon

Harbinger: Vile Vials

Harbinger: Cascading Corruption

Elixir of Ignorance (but really, all Elixir's beyond Blight building are fairly pathetic & bloated)

Edited March 29, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Shroud.2307]

Changes I would like to see:

Barbed Precision
Currently: Critical hits have a chance to cause Bleeding. Increases Bleed duration (20%).
What I would like: Bleeding has increased damage (10%) and increased duration (10%).

Dhuumfire
Currently: Shroud skill 1 inflicts Burning.
What I would like: Shroud skill 1 activates a stacking buff, when that threshold is reached Shroud skill 1 applies Burning.
Hits needed to proc per spec: Necro x2, Reaper x3, Scourge x4, Harbinger x5.
Burning duration is not different per spec - 3sec baseline.

Mark of Blood
Currently: Bleed foes and grant Regeneration to allies.
What I would like: Bleed foes and gain health per stack of Bleeding on your target. 
Something small like 75 healing per Bleed stack, and healing is reduced per target struck. Otherwise hitting 5 targets with 25 Bleed each it would be like, a 9k heal. On a 4sec cd it should be something small, but I think it would be better if it were instant rather than the Regeneration it currently has.

Putrid Mark
Give it a unique animation so it's easier to differentiate from the other Marks. I'm thinking just a simple slamming the Staff in to the ground.

Spinal Shivers
Give it the same full body explosive chill effect that "Chilled To The Bone!" does. This is a very high impact skill and should be easier to see.
This does not mean changing the cast time, only the visual.

Locust Swarm
Currently: Gain Swiftness and siphon health.
What I would like: Gain Swiftness (15sec), gain Swiftness per strike (1sec per strike with very low scaling) and remove Swiftness from foes per strike.

Unholy Sanctuary and Signet of Undeath
Do something with them. I don't know what. Remove them for all I care. Both of these things are extremely passive and rewarding. Health should never regenerate while protected by Shroud unless it's Scourge or Harbinger. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Shroud.2307

[Dadnir.5038]

Traits:

- Chill of death: this need a rework since it was nuked for the sake of sPvP (well it was bad design even before so hopefully the whole "proc lesser deathly chill" thing go away).

- Dhuumfire: If there is really a need for this, make the burn proc on something else than shrd#1 (The "per specialization" balance is just ugly at this point)

- Lingering curse: There is to much packed on this trait, it need to be thined out.

Utility skills:

- Lich form: I know I'm annoying, but can we get this tranformation elite skill replaced by a non-transformation skill already?

- Minions: They badly need to be changed so that they are less "passive gameplay".

- Epidemic: A rework of fonctionality would be great.

- Serpent siphon: Get rid of the bundle idea and make it summon undead serpent minions instead.

 

As I don't want to see things getting worse for the weapon skills I'll stay silent on them. Also, it would be great to see a come back of the "flash shroud" gameplay as right now the incensitive is a bit to heavy on "staying in shroud" (could we be a bit more encouraged to drop the shroud? Please).

 

[Obtena.7952]

I'm going to guess that Corruption skills get a rework (seriously, does anyone use these other than Epidemic?)

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm going to guess that Corruption skills get a rework (seriously, does anyone use these other than Epidemic?)

CPC, consume conditions, Blood is power, plagueland. I'm pretty sure all those skills are widely used.

[Legend of Rogue.5394]

10 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

With the most recent Studio update arenanet released some very exciting news.

Quotes:

"...we’ll be making professions and elite specialization updates a higher priority..."

"... In addition to the number tweaks that you’re used to seeing, the team will be revisiting some underpowered and underused weapon skills, traits, or utilities for each profession in each profession update..."

 

What traits/weapons/skills do you think need an update/ rework (and why)?

 

I'll start here with an example:

Dagger mainhand: rework

it's not really used in any kind of Necro build. It's a utility weapon but in pvp modes the Autoattack isn't usable (low range with no real payoff. Its way too self punishing to go I to melee with dagger) and in PvE the lifeforce Generation of the Autoattack is the only useful utility.

warhorn 5: rework

If you use wh 5 you solely use it for the swiftness. The life Siphon and lifeforce Generation do not impact the gameplay at all.

Sadistic searing - rework

Make it more appealing to take on DPS builds over desert empowerment. 

dagger offhand 5: update

Speed up the animation

Harbinger shroud: update

Update so allies as well as enemies see the harbingers health bar while harbinger is in shroud.

All shroud versions: update

Remove the green border on the screen. It overrides the yellow border from boss mechanics

 

That's not all the changes I want to see, but my top 6.

what do you think?

As someone who wants to craft the Legendary Horn for my Necro I would love to see the skills do more. When I think of Warhorn on a necro I think of calling out. Thus 4 can remain as a stun but 5 should gain swiftness and some other boon, maybe stability? That would be pretty solid. Right now warhorn is so Niche is doesnt really do anything. Ultimately the only things being used in necro is Scepter, Dagger, Axe, staff. Even pistol and focus is to niche

[jpsssss.7530]

Can we drop blood bank like the failure it is and get vampiric rituals back and better than ever?

[Thornwolf.9721]

1. Staff needs a rework.
2. minions need a rework, they need to be more interesting and be made to be... well less whatever this mess is
3. I would like to see bones of some sort incorporated more into the class; So far we have inky black green goo and junk but visually this class does not feel necromancer-ish at all and visual updates would go a long way for this.
4. Shroud in core needs to be looked at, reapers shroud does too as both could use some sprucing to be made more interesting
5. I'd like to see corruptions get looked at perhaps? Maybe our wells considering chrono and specter both have much more functional and fun to use wells than necromancers do.
6. I really think that signets should be reworked into a form of facets and function similarly to glints facets; Giving you something while you're utilizing some of your shroud as upkeep to summon spirits to aid you or give you a "deathly aura" because the signets just... kinda... meh.

[SleepyBat.9034]

1 hour ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

1. Staff needs a rework.
2. minions need a rework, they need to be more interesting and be made to be... well less whatever this mess is
3. I would like to see bones of some sort incorporated more into the class; So far we have inky black green goo and junk but visually this class does not feel necromancer-ish at all and visual updates would go a long way for this.
4. Shroud in core needs to be looked at, reapers shroud does too as both could use some sprucing to be made more interesting
5. I'd like to see corruptions get looked at perhaps? Maybe our wells considering chrono and specter both have much more functional and fun to use wells than necromancers do.
6. I really think that signets should be reworked into a form of facets and function similarly to glints facets; Giving you something while you're utilizing some of your shroud as upkeep to summon spirits to aid you or give you a "deathly aura" because the signets just... kinda... meh.

Why does Staff need a rework? also I think Corruptions are fine.

[Lahmia.2193]

2 hours ago, jpsssss.7530 said:

Can we drop blood bank like the failure it is and get vampiric rituals back and better than ever?

 

I guess its personal preference but I love Blood Bank and would lament its loss. Maybe if they remade Vampiric Rituals into something that didn't resemble a stitched together Frankenstein of a trait, I would be more open to it though. Something like, it grants each well a different buff, similar to Mesmer's Blurred Inscriptions.

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 3/24/2022 at 7:47 PM, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Why does Staff need a rework? also I think Corruptions are fine.

Because staff as a weapon is kind of bleh, While it can function .. it could offer a ton more. As for corruptions I dunno; I don't often see people running anything outside of spectral/flesh wurm most of the time.

[SleepyBat.9034]

29 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Because staff as a weapon is kind of bleh, While it can function .. it could offer a ton more. As for corruptions I dunno; I don't often see people running anything outside of spectral/flesh wurm most of the time.

I disagree. Staff is quite a powerful weapon and vary commonly picked by a lot of builds. The Corruption heal-skill is vary common, and Corrosive Poison Cloud is the only projectile block necromancer has. Also I don't play necromancer in PvE but I'm pretty sure Plague Lands is the meta pick for a dps build.

[Dadnir.5038]

28 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I disagree. Staff is quite a powerful weapon and vary commonly picked by a lot of builds. The Corruption heal-skill is vary common, and Corrosive Poison Cloud is the only projectile block necromancer has. Also I don't play necromancer in PvE but I'm pretty sure Plague Lands is the meta pick for a dps build.

CPC, as you said, is one of the most useful skill of the necromancer's kit in competitive modes.

Consume condition is a heal with full cleanse, which is also very useful in competitive modes.

Blood is power is one of the most used skills in PvE (meta on many builds).

Plagueland is the meta elite skill in PvE.

Corrupt boons see some use in 1v1 in WvW.

Epidemic is still pretty strong based on what you want to do with it. (This is the only corruption skill that really deserve a rework as it's to gimmicky)

[Kozumi.5816]

On 3/24/2022 at 11:18 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm going to guess that Corruption skills get a rework (seriously, does anyone use these other than Epidemic?)

Blood is power.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 3/24/2022 at 7:30 PM, Thornwolf.9721 said:

I would like to see bones of some sort incorporated more into the class; So far we have inky black green goo and junk but visually this class does not feel necromancer-ish at all and visual updates would go a long way for this.

https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Bone_Spear_(Diablo_III)

and
Bone Armor • Bone Spirit • Blood Rush • Simulacrum 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Curennos.9307]

6 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I disagree. Staff is quite a powerful weapon and vary commonly picked by a lot of builds. The Corruption heal-skill is vary common, and Corrosive Poison Cloud is the only projectile block necromancer has. Also I don't play necromancer in PvE but I'm pretty sure Plague Lands is the meta pick for a dps build.

Staff is picked because it's really the only weapon necromancer has to fill a certain gap. Axe and scepter are 900 range, generally single target, and primarily damage focused (with a side of boonrip/soft CC). 

 

Staff filled necro's 'slot' of 'long ranged weapon'. Staff isn't all that good - it's just, unfortunately, the only way to fill certain parts in a necro's build and is very much propped up by the staff trait that makes marks generate LF. Without it...None of your marks are unblockable (which is very important for the fear), none can be used to safely generate LF (the AA is hot garbage). Staff#2 has...no discernable use - it does AA-levels of damage, low bleed damage even on condi builds, and only grants regen when you're in range of the mark, which negates any sort of range advantage.

 

It's not a godawful weapon by any means - it's just 'meh' overall. It's a utility weapon with skills several years out of date. In cases where a skill's mechanics and impact can hold its own - such as #5 and #5 offering cleanse and a CC, which is always useful and hard to power creep - the skills remain useful, but others, like skill#2, are blatantly underpowered. 

 

 

To answer the OP - I'd really like some dagger reworks to make it synergize better with Blood Magic. If it's going to have a a melee AA and ranged skills (which is weird, but eh) the AA needs to have some form of defense on it. Barrier per enemy hit or something so that it's viable to actually use without imploding. Dagger 2 and 3 are also pretty slow and otherwise outdated - heck #3 even has a self-bleed on it that makes #2 stronger. Overall it's slow, clunky, and conflicts with itself and doesn't seem to have a real niche, nor does it have any mechanisms to support its niche (that actually function, anyway). 

[Subli.8217]

Staff needs a complete rework at the utmost urgency.

[Kozumi.5816]

12 hours ago, Sublimatio.6981 said:

Staff needs a complete rework at the utmost urgency.

It's good in pvp/wvw.

[Curennos.9307]

14 hours ago, Sublimatio.6981 said:

Staff needs a complete rework at the utmost urgency.

I wouldn't say it needs a complete rework - rather, it needs to more fully fill the job it looks like it was intended to do. I just want to see the #2 skill be something other than an almost actually spammable filler skill and for the AA to be...idk, useful. #3 could also use a slight buff.

 

Overall:
#5: I think it's fine, generally. Needs a more distinct animation though. Could give short stab (2 sec) to allies.

#4: Good skill. Could use added flavor, such as 'steal boons you transfer conditions to and grant them to your allies'.

#3: Similarly, decent-ish skill, though not as good as the first two imo. Chill is useful but it's *just* chill and poison, plus a field that has decent synergy with #4. I'd make this one grant regen and swiftness to allies, if we're going down the road of 'skills support allies similarly to how they harm enemies', plus short duration alacrity. Nothing that can be perma'd though.

#2: Turn it into a skill that grands some kind of empowering leech aura to allies, + provides small amounts of heal and barrier. Maybe it could grant charges of vamp signet to enemies so allies can heal when hitting stuff, similar to how the trait works in Blood Magic. This would allow the necro to support allies when at range, and for themselves to survive when ending up in melee range.

AA: I'd change this to a beam, similar to druid's staff#1, that channels and does ticking damage (plus stacking bleed?) and generates LF, plus a decent chunk of LF at the very end to reward players if they manage to finish channeling it.

 

Then adjust the numbers as needed. 

 

Oh, and make the LF gain from hitting marks baseline - the trait can retain the unblockable and maybe the +LF gain, but decrease both sources to make up for the split or something so that they're not totally overpowered when put together. Staff needs to be more useful outside of a single trait. 

[Nimon.7840]

Please try to keep all gamemodes in mind if you post a suggestion here.

Or at least write something like "spvp perspective: flesh golem is useless"

So people know, what gamemode you are talking about and can give feedback about the other gamemodes.

(Golem is for example one of the best cc skills the game on certain pve boss encounters)

 

 

[KrHome.1920]

Reworking the stuff that is useless everywhere to be useful somewhere would actually be a good start. The expectation ANet might be able to create reworks that are useful everywhere (in each game mode) is a hopeless expectation.

Stuff that is useless everywhere:

- mainhand dagger

- a few traits

- a few utility skills

(can't go into detail because being at work)

Edited March 28, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[The Boz.2038]

Every now and then, I look at dagger MH and go "Hmm... the dagger MH does do pretty okay LF generation, and the damage isn't exactly bad", but then I'm like "but the damage isn't exactly good, either, and the rest of the kit is really outdated, ineffective 2010's vision of a PvP role".

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Every now and then, I look at dagger MH and go "Hmm... the dagger MH does do pretty okay LF generation, and the damage isn't exactly bad", but then I'm like "but the damage isn't exactly good, either, and the rest of the kit is really outdated, ineffective 2010's vision of a PvP role".

MH dagger was already reworked... That's how it got a self bleed on skill#3 and an increase heal on skill#2 when you're bleeding. Let keep in mind that the developpers already proved that they can make things worse (I wouldn't be surprised if after people ask them to rework MH dagger they ended up prohibiting skill#2 from critting "because it's a life siphon and life siphon abilities in GW2 don't crit").

Edited March 28, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[Shroud.2307]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Every now and then, I look at dagger MH and go "Hmm... the dagger MH does do pretty okay LF generation, and the damage isn't exactly bad", but then I'm like "but the damage isn't exactly good, either, and the rest of the kit is really outdated, ineffective 2010's vision of a PvP role".

Dagger is a good weapon, but it was designed for a different class. 

Not literally, but... The kit demands certain qualities that Necro can't take advantage of, is my point.