Give back projectile finisher to Mirror Blade and make Blurred Frenzy count as a "blade" skill on Virtuoso!

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1. Back in February 2020 when you reworked Mirror Blade to its current form, the projectile finisher effect disappeared, without being mentioned in the patch notes. I don't see any reason why this should have happened so I suspect it was an oversight. Please restore the functionality to Mirror Blade! It allowed for inventive uses of the skill like Temporal Curtain -> Mirror Blade to remove cleanse conditions.

2. There is a bug on Virtuoso right now where sword skills (Mind Slash, Blurred Frenzy, Blade Leap, Illusionary Riposte, Phantasmal Swordsman) don't count as blades, meaning that they don't trigger Deadly Blades or Jagged Mind. Would be great to get a fix on this. Greatsword skills (Mirror Blade, Mind Stab) do count as blades.

Thanks!

Edited April 2, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Salt Mode.3780]

It isn't news that they shadow nerf Mesmers without putting it in the patch notes, back in core days they shadow nerfed shatter damage as if Mesmer mains dont realize the damage difference. 

[Mungo Zen.9364]

2 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

There is a bug on Virtuoso right now where sword skills (Mind Slash, Blurred Frenzy, Blade Leap, Illusionary Riposte, Phantasmal Swordsman) don't count as blades, meaning that they don't trigger Deadly Blades or Jagged Mind. Would be great to get a fix on this.

I don't think this is a bug, otherwise why not rework all the Mesmer weapons to provide Blades?

[Nezekan.2671]

I think GS 2 is no longer treated as a projectile. I could be wrong though. The reason I think this is because it goes through projectile blocks. I know it says unblockable on the tooltip as well, but it is possible it is unblockable through removal of projectile effect?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

3 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

It isn't news that they shadow nerf Mesmers without putting it in the patch notes, back in core days they shadow nerfed shatter damage as if Mesmer mains dont realize the damage difference. 

Phantasms from chrono shield were also stealth nerfed and now dodging at the end prevent their summoning. 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

2 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I don't think this is a bug, otherwise why not rework all the Mesmer weapons to provide Blades?

How many times do I have to explain this on these forums, weapons that use blades are supposed to count as blade skills. I.e. Sword, Greatsword, Dagger. This is why both dagger and greatsword skills trigger Deadly Blades and Jagged Mind (check the Mirror Blade & Mind Stab tooltips). But sword skills do not, which is clearly a bug.

Edited March 31, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

I think GS 2 is no longer treated as a projectile. I could be wrong though. The reason I think this is because it goes through projectile blocks. I know it says unblockable on the tooltip as well, but it is possible it is unblockable through removal of projectile effect?

It was always unblockable, it always went through projectile blocks.

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Phantasms from chrono shield were also stealth nerfed and now dodging at the end prevent their summoning. 

Shield summons phantasms? Lies, i have yet to see it!!! 

 

[Mungo Zen.9364]

3 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

How many times do I have to explain this on these forums, weapons that use blades are supposed to count as blade skills. I.e. Sword, Greatsword, Dagger. This is why both dagger and greatsword skills trigger Deadly Blades and Jagged Mind (check the Mirror Blade & Mind Stab tooltips). But sword skills do not, which is clearly a bug.

It seems fairly deliberate that they added the Blade designation to some weapon skills and not others.  I do agree it appears inconsistent, but still not necessarily a bug.  Considering that they reworked Blade Leap specifically for Virtuoso, they would have likely updated the other Sword skills at the same time to include Blade.

That they didn't tells me that the changes to GS were specifically done to empower a ranged playstyle.  Sword is, in most cases, the strongest weapon Mesmer has, and by not empowering it with Blades is perhaps a signal that Virtuoso is not intended for Melee play.  Or rather, if you take sword, you will get a very strong weapon at the cost of less Blade skill/trait interaction.

All the weapon skills that generate a Clone do generate a Blade, including Illusionary Riposte.  **fun fact, GS2 doesn't even have the Clone designation when not in Virtuoso, even though it generates a Clone.

All the weapon skills that generate a Phantasm can generate a Blade or Bleeding to stack blades via Trait selections for your build, including Phantasmal Swordsman.

Now, I am taking what Virtuoso was given as presented, and making observations and conclusions based upon that.  If they want to give Blade designation to Sword skills, sure, why not, but then why not empower Scepter and Staff as well, weapons that players have been complaining about in relation to Virtuoso since Beta.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

12 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

It seems fairly deliberate that they added the Blade designation to some weapon skills and not others.  I do agree it appears inconsistent, but still not necessarily a bug.  Considering that they reworked Blade Leap specifically for Virtuoso, they would have likely updated the other Sword skills at the same time to include Blade.

That they didn't tells me that the changes to GS were specifically done to empower a ranged playstyle. 

Spatial Surge used to count as a blade in the first beta, but no longer.

Quote

All the weapon skills that generate a Clone do generate a Blade, including Illusionary Riposte.  **fun fact, GS2 doesn't even have the Clone designation when not in Virtuoso, even though it generates a Clone.

Yes, I didn't say anything to the contrary.

Quote

All the weapon skills that generate a Phantasm can generate a Blade or Bleeding to stack blades via Trait selections for your build, including Phantasmal Swordsman.

Now, I am taking what Virtuoso was given as presented, and making observations and conclusions based upon that.  If they want to give Blade designation to Sword skills, sure, why not, but then why not empower Scepter and Staff as well, weapons that players have been complaining about in relation to Virtuoso since Beta.

Because Virtuoso is a master of blades, it specializes in blades, not magical wands and staves.

Edited March 31, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[necromaniac.7629]

GS4 too, it has the blade tooltip but it actually doesn't proc the traits at all so its a bug

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

3 hours ago, necromaniac.7629 said:

GS4 too, it has the blade tooltip but it actually doesn't proc the traits at all so its a bug

Pretty sure the blade that you throw out procs it but not the phantasm's attacks.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

1 hour ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Pretty sure the blade that you throw out procs it but not the phantasm's attacks.

I just tested this on a Golem and it appears that this is a bug, as it doesn't proc Bleed on Crit.  GS2 and GS3 do proc Bleed on Crit.

[necromaniac.7629]

18 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Pretty sure the blade that you throw out procs it but not the phantasm's attacks.

no, i tested it

[crazyhusky.2985]

In WvW would this be condition or Power?

You got any build suggestions for WvW, such as Armour prefixes, Runes, sigil and Traits you've been using?

[Mell.4873]

On 4/1/2022 at 12:13 AM, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

2. There is a bug on Virtuoso right now where sword skills (Mind Slash, Blurred Frenzy, Blade Leap, Illusionary Riposte, Phantasmal Swordsman) don't count as blades, meaning that they don't trigger Deadly Blades or Jagged Mind. Would be great to get a fix on this.

Thanks!

The blade mechanic should just stay on dagger since this is how Holosmith works but.... They did talk about adding Holosmith heat mechanic to other weapons so my guess if they ever did Virtuoso would be included in that balance.

The other thing to note is offhand sword is currently best in slot so adding bladed would mean 42k+ DPS without nerfing something and I don't want to see a nerf so just leave it for now.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:57 AM, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

That they didn't tells me that the changes to GS were specifically done to empower a ranged playstyle.  Sword is, in most cases, the strongest weapon Mesmer has, and by not empowering it with Blades is perhaps a signal that Virtuoso is not intended for Melee play.  Or rather, if you take sword, you will get a very strong weapon at the cost of less Blade skill/trait interaction.

Well power Virtuoso does use mainhand sword so it doesn't really matter, maybe they should put some extra blade generation on dagger to avoid this problem. It wont buff condi very much but might help power a little.

And if they did add bladed to sword then it would just be a copy of power. You cant win really.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

8 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

The blade mechanic should just stay on dagger since this is how Holosmith works

And the untamed mechanic should have stayed on just hammer like in the beta, right? No.

Quote

but.... They did talk about adding Holosmith heat mechanic to other weapons so my guess if they ever did Virtuoso would be included in that balance.

No, that is irrelevant because as I said, Virtuoso already has the blade mechanic on other weapons than dagger, namely greatsword. It's just that the sword skill interaction doesn't work.

Quote

The other thing to note is offhand sword is currently best in slot so adding bladed would mean 42k+ DPS without nerfing something and I don't want to see a nerf so just leave it for now.

It would almost certainly only proc on the counterattack and the strike that your character performs on sword 5 (the one that gives might), not on the phantasm's attacks. A total of 2 vuln/bleed.

And no, you shouldn't leave a blatant bug because sword offhand happens to have the best dps in pve (it's absolute garbage, by far the worst mesmer weapon, in pvp).

Edited April 2, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

5 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Well power Virtuoso does use mainhand sword so it doesn't really matter, maybe they should put some extra blade generation on dagger to avoid this problem. It wont buff condi very much but might help power a little.

And if they did add bladed to sword then it would just be a copy of power. You cant win really.

Dagger already has way better blade generation, what it lacks is defense and/or utility and the fact that the attacks are very unreliable (if we are talking about pvp).

[Ombras.2853]

Dagger problem is that d3 is one of the most terrible skill in the game for anything which isn’t pve. If it had a block or a push back it would be different.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

11 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Dagger problem is that d3 is one of the most terrible skill in the game for anything which isn’t pve. If it had a block or a push back it would be different.

I agree (though I wouldn't put a a hard cc on it because we have focus and pistol for that, plus I advocate for stun on Bladesong Dissonance).

Edit: Immob would also be cool since we lost that on sword 3.

Edited April 2, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Nezekan.2671]

Dagger 3: press again to swap places with daggerstorm

[Ombras.2853]

3 hours ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Dagger 3: press again to swap places with daggerstorm

This would also be interesting.

[Mell.4873]

10 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Dagger already has way better blade generation, what it lacks is defense and/or utility and the fact that the attacks are very unreliable (if we are talking about pvp).

Im not but yes that is all true

 

10 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

And the untamed mechanic should have stayed on just hammer like in the beta, right? No.

Well ambush is different since Mirage has the same mechanic

10 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

No, that is irrelevant because as I said, Virtuoso already has the blade mechanic on other weapons than dagger, namely greatsword. It's just that the sword skill interaction doesn't work.

I completely forgot Greatsword had blades, but i guess my point is still relevant since Sword is best in slot for PvE so it would still make it to strong requiring a nerf somewhere else. I meant the mainhand sword attacks, especially the auto attack, unless that doesn't count as a blade like Greatsword.

To sum up my point is I'm all for the bladed trait to be added to Sword but I would like to see what they nerf first.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Loboling.5293]

6 hours ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Dagger 3: press again to swap places with daggerstorm

This has been my desire as well. Its slow moving so it's not that much of a mobility skill, but it would help a lot for the fun of the spec and weapon. If gives you some breathing room when needed. I'd even be happy if to balance the skill, it added 5 seconds to the cooldown if you activate the second skill.